If Christianity Can Be Proven Wrong, Then What Makes Sikhism So Right?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Truthsikher31, Feb 24, 2018.

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  1. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Writer SPNer

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    Interesting. I'm glad to see someone who isn't so caught up in dogma to insist if you dare cut your hair you're no longer a valid Sikh. Refreshing.

    Well, I certainly know groups who are polyamorous by choice. And often it works well for them. However that is VERY different from hidden cheating. Very.


    Very true

    I don't really mean that it's "necessary", but it is certainly expected. I have even felt if I am going past the darbar hall without making appropriate bowing gestures, that people certainly look at me crooked. ;)
    There is nothing wrong in being alcohol free. I myself have not had any since 2015. I feel no "need", and I was not an alcoholic at the time either. I would occasionally drink with my parents, a glass of wine or a beer. But after then I haven't, I just haven't had the desire. There are a lot of "holier than thous" who insist one should never drink. I realize it is an illness some can't stop once they start, but equally many people are quite capable of drinking sensibly, never drinking and driving, never getting violent under the influence, etc. So I don't see drinking as "all bad".

    But that being said I think it is written in rehat maryada, based on guru Gobind singh Ji's 52 hukkams, not to drink?

    Surely you've heard of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's 52 hukkams? I know many Sikhs consider them somewhat like "commandments", obligatory rules. Though I have also heard there is some disagreement over them (& rehat), as to who originally wrote them, politics etc.

    But there are a lot of Sikhs who insist they are the code of conduct for all to follow otherwise you can't call yourself Sikh. Despite Sikh, as a word, meaning learner. I just find in general it's a bit hypocritical of people to say one instant that sikhi is a way of life (which I do often hear), and almost the next minute "oh but you're not a true Sikh if you drink/cut your hair(etc)"...

    And I do hear it. Sometimes from the same people. Sometimes within a short period of time.
     
  2. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Sikhi is not dogmatic because it is not dependent on any deities. So, it has nothing to do with not getting caught up in dogma. It has a much deeper meaning though. The invaders at the time of Sikhi used to kidnap Hindu women and rape them. Sikhs used to get them back.
    Hindu girls, until today are urged to get a turbaned Sikh taxi driver for their own safety. Sikhs were considered trustworthy by the Brits even though they treated them awfully bad. So, having a Sikh son in a Hindu family was a safety issue for the whole family and still is.

    Yes, I know them too but that is not what we are talking about here. There are many polyamorous communities all around the world but that is not the mode de vie for the majority.

    So, you did mean adultery then when you said, "sex outside the marriage." And btw, cheating is always hidden.

    What I am gathering from you and your emoji, bowing or not bowing has nothing to do with the SGGS but with people looking at you. I have no idea who these people are. I belong to an Interfaith Council. You may check my FB page under Teji Malik for more details as it is public. I get invited and invite people to Gurdawaras. Some of them bow, some do not. I do not find any problems with that.
    Having said that, bowing has a different meaning as Harry explained it to you. So, I have no idea why you have to race your eyebrows up north for the things that you do not understand their significance.The only solution is to try to understand them in the context rather than protesting about it for naught.

    I used to drink too many moons ago. Not anymore. People who belong to LDS-Mormon church do not drink alcohol and coffee. If everyone knew what moderation is, then we would not be having drinking problems all over the world. So, I have no idea what you gripe is about refraining from drinking and smoking in Sikhi. I am a bit bewildered that you did not mention the latter.

    I fail to understand what kind of satisfaction you get by talking about others in this way or with your emojis. I have no idea who is holier than thou here nor do I care because it does not affect me personally. I also think drinking is not that bad because perhaps I do not drink anymore but I drive people home during drinking holidays. I used to think drinking was a very good thing when I used to drink.

    I have no idea whether you are a Sikh or not. If you are the latter, then please stop scrutinising other religions' practices that do not have any effect on you.
    What joy does it bring to you except disdain? I am very well aware of the 52 Hukumnaamas as they are called.

    As far rehat is concerned and what is written in it, I wrote an article about the changes it needed and often, many years ago. You can find it here on SPN under my name.



    Surely you've heard of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's 52 hukkams? I know many Sikhs consider them somewhat like "commandments", obligatory rules. Though I have also heard there is some disagreement over them (& rehat), as to who originally wrote them, politics etc.
     
  3. Truthsikher31

    Truthsikher31 SPNer

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    Aman Singh,
    Thats great if SPN denounces "fairy tales" but like I mentioned in one of my replies, my resources are limited. I've turned to mostly online forums, YouTube videos, social media (FB, Twitter, etc.), and those other sources have some aggressive/abusive response - from the Sikhi side. You'll have responses like death to poster because they want to cut their hair, or dont believe in the same faith. Very hateful responses. Most of them do sound immature, could be youngsters who haven't matured or learned enough, or experienced much in life. Could be elder generations to, can't never tell. But I'm not judging those here in SPN, its just an overall observation i'm seeing.

    I didnt mean literally by death sentence. But like most of our parents, and generations before would never give a proper debate if you asked something about Sikhi. And if you went complete rebel aka: cutting hair, or changing religions or leaving religion all together, then you were totally in the wrong. Online people can be anonymous, express their true feelings, and shut it down whenever they want. But imagine trying to taking such questions to older generations, or even take half these thoughts to places like Amritsar. There are still some new generations who are very hardcore, and can not tolerate anything negative being said to Sikhi, the Gurus, or SGGS
     
  4. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    why

    in the age of the internet why are your resources limited? I found myself in the same situation years ago, and then, the questions were not even being asked as often as they are now.

    quality sources then!!

    what did you expect?

    could be both,
    SPN is in a different league to the social media and youtube material you have come across, its a platform that encourages mature(on the whole) talk and logical and pragmatic discussion,
    the key is not to say anything negative, ask questions for sure, ask why, ask how, damn it, question everything, but there is no need to be negative
     
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  5. chazSingh

    chazSingh Writer SPNer

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    keep contemplating brother...it will move you close to waheguru even when you think it isn't... :)

    TRUTH has ALWAYS existed...we just need a nudge in the right direction from time to time... :) you are truth seeking all the time even when you think you have gone off the rails...

    learn about the lives of the Guru's...but ultimately you will need to apply Gurbani in your life now...the present moment...when you get that moment...and you will...you'll never wonder or question again...you just need to be that explorer and make that effort with Simran....daily...anchor that mind...

    everything written above by you is your mind trying to understand by logic and reasoning what this whole Shizzle we call life is about...ultimately your mind will fail...
    the realization is from first hand experience...endless sea of possibilities...to surrender to His Will, and die (Ego - your character..your temporary character in this play)..

    anyway i'm rambling now...but seriously...be that explorer...the Sikh...confront those 5 thieves that plague you within...those stingy basta*ds :) all your answers are there within you...
     
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  6. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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    @Original?
    Are you able to respond to my questions?
     
  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    I wouldn't hold your breath, even if you get a reply, it is likely to be to a question you have not asked...
     
  8. Original

    Original Writer SPNer

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    Forgive me for the late response. I'm inundated with work right now, but will have a go. Pls note, I wont be able to give extensive answers, but rather, off-the-cuff explanations!

    Thank you
    It's not my opinion, convention deem Sikh a religion and religion as you know is something that supports the idea God or a superhuman agency.
    ..yes Sukh, the nature of truth [satnam] sought n found by Nanak wasn't through intellectual inquiry, but through belief>faith. Why ? Because satnam is beyond time n space - metaphysical, in terms of existence.
    ..much of SGGSJ is a revelation, classic of which is your "anand sahib ji".
    ..language of love
    ..granted ! anyone [atheist] can speak truth, but that doesn't necessarily equate to a desired result - God.
     
  9. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    told you...., mind you, this chap manages to avoid the same question 12 times !



    [
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  10. Ajmer singh Randhawa

    Ajmer singh Randhawa SPNer

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    Better you come to the point. your post is vague as it only questions if Sikh religion is a religion or a sect?
    The Sikh Gurus never learnt art of performing miracles. Islam impose three conditions to declare someone as Prophet or Nabi.
    1- followerrs,
    2- religious book,
    3- ability tho perform miracles.
    And the Siklh Gurus were blessed with these qualities.
    it ts took 239 years to finally declare Sikh as religion.
    Sikh religion is now a complete, distinct, sovereign religion which guarantee its followers to take care of them right from birth to salvation after death.
     
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  11. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    Christianity isn't one of the oldest and first religions. Here's a graphic timeline so you can get some better perspective. It was created, lets be generous and say 2000 years ago, and came out of Judaism with an injection of Greek culture.

    Religion doesn't mean 'the word of God'. It comes from a Latin word and means something more like "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods" and "obligation, the bond between man and the gods", or even to "reconnect with god". At any rate, 'religion' is a modern Western concept and the misapplication of it might really be messing up communication about Sikhi.

    And what does "white man" have to do with this? Christianity is a Middle-Eastern religion that invaded Europe via Greece and Rome.

    Sikh Gurus weren't miracle makers.

    And yes, religions (in the broadest use of the word) are man-made insofar as we are humans and can only compute with our human minds. Most religions I've come across have kernels of common spiritual insight in them. It's just the wrapping that is different. Sometimes the wrapping can be stifling and a adherent can't get to the insights buried under layer upon layer of convoluted man-made religion. In my experience, Sikhi has one of the thinnest layers you can find. It is still layered with cultural and mythological stuff only relevant to the culture of the people it grew up in (like patriarchal baggage and references to Hindu myths and concepts) , but the 'common spiritual insights' in it are clear and many. They are the pearls. Do you see them?
     
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