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Hard Talk How Many Sikhs Have Married Out Of Caste/race?

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Hard Talk How Many Sikhs Have Married Out Of Caste/race?

Have You Married Out of Your Caste/Race/Tribe? Why or Why Not?

  • Yes

    Votes: 112 38.2%
  • No

    Votes: 181 61.8%

  • Total voters
    293

Harry Haller

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You will appreciate that you will not find a Gurdwara as "Khatrian da Gurdwara", although there is one in Mumbai by the name of "Puthuharian da Gurdwara". Puthuhar is a Region in Punjab, where I myself belong. That dose not mean "Khatrian da" as in Puthuhar there are several Sikh castes. Regarding castes what is objectionable in Sikhism is "Hankar" on account ones so called High Caste. In Punja, the Jats have taken to affix the name of village to which they belong , thus avoiding to use Family identity. This is a superfluous practice. The present President of SGPC affied his Goutra after his name before being elected to the post, but he has dropped the said Family name. Fickle minded. He couldn't justify why he was using the family name heretofore. What a pity!
To say that all Khatris are hypocrites is unacceptable. Some people, of whatever caste they are from, have high moral values. The so called lower castes are at a loss to maintain high morale for the conditions their fate has put them into. A marriage is a life long commitment between two souls and it is very necessary that their thinking and living is on the same plane. So it is more of a social status to choose and therefore people go for like status/caste in Sikh families.
For your information, my brother has married one of his sons to a girl from "Ramgariah" family.
In Ardas you are required to give your name---- and what is your full name? If you are using your Family name as Suffix you have to provide it to the Giani doing Ardas.
I had said that you will find Gurdwaras with the name of Ramdasia, Ramgariah etc. but not Khatrias. So where is the fault of so called high castes when only the practice is with the so called lower castes.
If you suffix your Surname (In which there is no harm) people will know what caste you belong to. It is bad to be proud of ones higher caste and sneer at other castes.
hmmm food for thought, I will reply in half the time it took your goodself!
see you in 3 months!
 

Harry Haller

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More Sikhs need to marry out of caste to show many Punjabi families caste has no relevance in Sikhi
hang on, isn't that defeating the object, why not simply accept there is no caste?
 

Harkiran Kaur

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I find this question funny because:

1. Sikhi is a FAITH / RELIGION and NOT a race. It's not even a culture. (Though some may argue).
2. The question supposes that all Sikhs are of one common [race?] which is not true... well it IS true... there is only ONE race, being the human race. All Sikhs are human! But I digress... maybe we should say culture or ethnicity instead? All Sikhs are not comprised of one culture/ethnicity.

So how should I answer? I am caucasian, born and raised in Canada. I follow Sikhi of my own accord. I married a Punjabi Sikh. Do I answer 'yes' because I married outside my [culture/ethnicity] being caucasian?? LOL
 

Tejwant Singh

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So how should I answer? I am caucasian, born and raised in Canada. I follow Sikhi of my own accord. I married a Punjabi Sikh. Do I answer 'yes' because I married outside my [culture/ethnicity] being caucasian?? LOL
People from the Northwest India, mainly Punjab are Caucasians- read Aryan civilisation.

But that is not the point about Sikhi. Sikhi is for equality irrespective of hue, creed, faith, no faith, sexual orientation. And Sikhi can only be for equality if it practices that within itself.
 
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Harkiran Kaur

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People from the Northwest India, mainly Punjab are Caucasians- read Aryan civilisation.

But that is not the point about Sikhi. Sikhi is for equality irrespective of hue, creed, faith, no faith, sexual orientation. And Sikhi can be only for equality if it practices that within itself.
That was the point I was trying to get across LOL How funny it is to think of caste or race / ethnicity etc mattering.
 

namritanevaeh

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Hi all,

Sikhism practices the egalitarian principles of there being no caste/racial distinctions between people. We can all say we don't believe in castism/racism, but the iron test of a Sikh is to whether they have actually married out of caste/race/tribe?

Please vote here to:

http://www.sikh-history.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002021

PS Vote also if you intend to marry in or out of caste/race.
I am not fully Sikh. I am more practicing than many Sikhs I know, in terms of the amount of sewa I do and the amount of learning I do about Sikhi. But I don't believe in everything and I'm not about to take Amrit.

I'm from a gora background and was raised without any thought to caste. My family adopted a mixed race girl (my sister), and fostered a boy overseas in India when I was growing up. My parents were very fair and not involved in anything bad racially.

I would say however that I married someone who was "below my social class" in a sense. It's an education thing. I come from a family where almost everyone has university diplomas with many PhD's. My ex husband's family, some haven't even completed high school and others barely have. He himself has a trade diploma but no university. It didn't work out and "class" was part of it but not all of it. It's so hard to reason with someone on child rearing habits when they won't read anything about it because they're basically illiterate.

That wasn't the entire problem but it was some of it.

I would consider marrying a man friend I have currently. We are unable to marry for now but if we ever are, it will be interracial. I'm not sure what his family would view me as, a mostly educated gori. Lower or higher? :) only time will tell if we can anyhow. :)
 

Sikhilove

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I am not fully Sikh. I am more practicing than many Sikhs I know, in terms of the amount of sewa I do and the amount of learning I do about Sikhi. But I don't believe in everything and I'm not about to take Amrit.

I'm from a gora background and was raised without any thought to caste. My family adopted a mixed race girl (my sister), and fostered a boy overseas in India when I was growing up. My parents were very fair and not involved in anything bad racially.

I would say however that I married someone who was "below my social class" in a sense. It's an education thing. I come from a family where almost everyone has university diplomas with many PhD's. My ex husband's family, some haven't even completed high school and others barely have. He himself has a trade diploma but no university. It didn't work out and "class" was part of it but not all of it. It's so hard to reason with someone on child rearing habits when they won't read anything about it because they're basically illiterate.

That wasn't the entire problem but it was some of it.

I would consider marrying a man friend I have currently. We are unable to marry for now but if we ever are, it will be interracial. I'm not sure what his family would view me as, a mostly educated gori. Lower or higher? :) only time will tell if we can anyhow. :)
There is no social class, Gurbani states that an Ant who remembers naam is more blessed than one is world famous and has all manner of riches but does not remember the same. You can be the most intelligent scientist in the world, but without spirituality, it's useless.
 

seekingsikhi

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I married before coming to Sikhi, so I hesitated to vote. That said, I'm of the opinion that you should marry who you want. Unless your spouse actively and intentionally stops you from japing naam, then who cares? Anand karaj is a different story, but I'm assuming we're talking about civil marriage in this thread.
 

Sikhilove

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I married before coming to Sikhi, so I hesitated to vote. That said, I'm of the opinion that you should marry who you want. Unless your spouse actively and intentionally stops you from japing naam, then who cares? Anand karaj is a different story, but I'm assuming we're talking about civil marriage in this thread.
To be spiritually balanced u have to be spiritually accepting of others
 

gjsingh

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If I married a girl who is part 1/5th part Vedic Aryan, 1/5th part Dravidian, 1/5th part Greek, 1/5th part Turk, and 1/5th part Mongol ... does that count?

But seriously... I did marry outside my caste (none), race (gora), and religion (Christian)

I figure I am doing my Christian in-laws an invaluable service. These proselytizing Abrahamics need somebody to pray for, right?

I hope Jesus takes it into consideration when I die!

:mundawinks:
 

gjsingh

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I have a serious follow up question that I've been wanting to ask of somebody knowledgeable in the matter for some time. I read on Wikipedia that when Dr. Ambdekar and his half-million followers repudiated Hinduism in the mid-20th century, that he investigated Sikhi (amongst other panths) before settling on Buddhism per here:

History of Buddhism in India - Wikipedia
Dalit Buddhist movement - Wikipedia

Supposedly, Sikhism had not separated itself from the Hindu caste system to Ambdekar's satisfaction, and thus the move to Buddhism. I am intrigued by this episode.

  • Was this in actuality an impossible task?
  • Is it true that Ambdekar actually adulterated Buddhism with his political agenda? (The wiki implies such, but I am aware that axe grinders like to muddle the waters on Wikipedia)
  • What was the reaction or discussion within Sikhism at the time? Reflections since then?
  • Are there other examples of lower-caste Hindus specifically converting to Sikhism as a kind of sociological phenomenon?
 

Harry Haller

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I have a serious follow up question that I've been wanting to ask of somebody knowledgeable in the matter for some time.
far be it for me to respond to a question that has the words serious, and somebody knowledgeable, in the title, but I will give it a bash, why the hell not,

I read on Wikipedia that when Dr. Ambdekar and his half-million followers repudiated Hinduism in the mid-20th century, that he investigated Sikhi (amongst other panths) before settling on Buddhism per here:
yeah i read that too, interesting that Gandhi decided to go on one of his super diets to limit the rights of the untouchables..

Supposedly, Sikhism had not separated itself from the Hindu caste system to Ambdekar's satisfaction, and thus the move to Buddhism. I am intrigued by this episode.
well, he is right, Sikhism is still ingrained in the caste system, even today, and back then, even more so, he would have had nothing to gain by promoting Sikhism, straight from the fire to the frying pan comes to mind

Was this in actuality an impossible task?
given the attitudes of most Sikhs to caste, yes, probably

Is it true that Ambdekar actually adulterated Buddhism with his political agenda?
adulterated, {censored}ised , Ambdekar wrote books on the subject, so if we are to take his own words rather than wikki, it is clear from the content of the books that he questioned Buddhism and wished to improve on it, more likely for his own agenda, although, one could say the agenda was worthwhile and good, in hindsight he would probably have been better to start from scratch, I guess he was caught between a rock and a hard place, and did the best he could at the time.

What was the reaction or discussion within Sikhism at the time? Reflections since then?
I would imagine that it filled some with hope and some with horror, although the ones filled with horror were probably dominant

  • Are there other examples of lower-caste Hindus specifically converting to Sikhism as a kind of sociological phenomenon?
Dalit Rights: Over 200 Dalits convert to Sikhism in MP,
 

gjsingh

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far be it for me to respond to a question that has the words serious, and somebody knowledgeable, in the title, but I will give it a bash, why the hell not,
OK, I'll take half-baked guesses too!

Interesting, thanks. The response of the local Hindutva party betrays are rare degree of arrogance:

The matter has also been raised by the BJP in the Madhya Pradesh Assembly and a memorandum has been submitted to the governor. However, the villagers who have converted maintain this is not a question of opportunism but an issue of basic respect and of their right to be treated as equal.
I thought I was bad, I'm nothing compared to that ^
 

arshdeep88

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I am not a practicing Sikh( as in having the 5 Ks, or even don't most of the times try connecting with the Gurbani) so I don't know if am the right one to answer on my part but still, I adore Gurbani and try to learn from it, The love has always been there for it.
In my worst times, it has given the faith, courage and self- confidence.
Truth is no matter what, either we follow Sikhism or not, read Gurbani or not, do all the rituals or not, castism does plaques Punjab and it is kind of sad and it kind of confines one to only go for people within his/her caste.
Also, discrimination does exist too among the Gursikhs who view Monas or people of other religions as inferior.
Looking for a suitable partner outside so-called caste is still a taboo.
I hope it does changes in the younger generation and hope they try to connect more with the true essence of the message.

I personally have had the best of friends from every religion or caste and we had shared the best of our moments.
I had my crushes from every religion/ race and thought of even marrying them if things do fall at place :p which, unfortunately (what if fortunately ? hmmm )never did lol.
 

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