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Hair/ਬਾਲ

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Singh Ji,

Then you refer to;

Rattan Singh Bhangu, a historian records his feelings towards AGGS as under, about 100 + years after the death of Guru Gobind Singh, which has become a Sabd by ignorant tradition.
Ratan Singh Bhangu (d. 1846) - a descendant of Mahtab Singh (who had, along with young Sukha Singh, assassinated Massa Ranghar, the tyrannical Zakariya Khan’s deputy, in 1740, as punishment for desecrating the precincts of Harimandir Sahib) wrote the following, which Sikh rabble think to be written by 10th Master;

ਆਗਿਆਭਈਅਕਾਲਕੀਤਬੀਚਲਾਇਓਪੰਥ
ਸਭਸਿਖਨਕੋਹੁਕਮਹੈਗੁਰੂਮਾਨਿਯੋਗ੍ਰੰਥ
ਗੁਰੂਗ੍ਰੰਥਜੀਮਾਨਿਯੋਪ੍ਗਟਗੁਰਾਂਕੀਦੇਹ
ਜੋਪ੍ਭਕੋਮਿਲਬੋਚਹੈਖੋਜਸ਼ਬਦਮੈਂਲੇਹ -----Ref ਪੰਥਪਰਕਾਸ਼ (Panth Parkash)

Aagia Bhaee Akal Ki Tabi Chalaeo Panth.
Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manio Granth.
Guru Granth Ji Maneo Pargat Guran Ki Deh.
Jo Prabh Ko Milbo Chahai Khoj Sabd Main Leh.

The above reference is given in the book “Safarnama & Zafarnama” by Giani Ishwar Singh Nara and translated in to English by Joginder Singh M. A. Page, 280.

Have a good day.

Debate ends.

Cordially,

Virinder S. Grewal
virindergrewal@cablespeed.com
517-992-9134
Williamston, MI

As the Gurbani you presented all you are saying is I am a angry man that barks. You could have just said it directly to me. A person that goes out of his way to use Gurbani to say another person barks is really humble right!!!!

And far as your claim that this is just made up
With the directive of the Almighty, initiated is the Panth. All the Sikhs are decreed to acknowledge Granth as Guru. Believing in Khalsa, epitomises the Guru as corporeal. Sikhs desirous to achieve me, (may) search in them.

is a complete lie by you. Guru Sahib spoke these words when he made Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, Guru as the Panj Pyare were present at the time.

Also this rehat says similar by Bhai Chaupaa Singh Jee:

One who claims to be a Sikh of the Guru, but does not accept the Guru Granth Sahib as Guru; they will forever remain deluded by their egotistical attachment to Maayaa.

Rehatnama Bhai Chaupaa Singh Jee
 

vsgrewal48895

Writer
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Mar 12, 2009
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As the Gurbani you presented all you are saying is I am a angry man that barks. You could have just said it directly to me. A person that goes out of his way to use Gurbani to say another person barks is really humble right!!!!

And far as your claim that this is just made up
With the directive of the Almighty, initiated is the Panth. All the Sikhs are decreed to acknowledge Granth as Guru. Believing in Khalsa, epitomises the Guru as corporeal. Sikhs desirous to achieve me, (may) search in them.

is a complete lie by you. Guru Sahib spoke these words when he made Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, Guru as the Panj Pyare were present at the time.

Also this rehat says similar by Bhai Chaupaa Singh Jee:

One who claims to be a Sikh of the Guru, but does not accept the Guru Granth Sahib as Guru; they will forever remain deluded by their egotistical attachment to Maayaa.


Rehatnama Bhai Chaupaa Singh Jee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Singh Ji,

Before jumping on the band wagon of Rehtnamas written years after 1708 and patronizing Sabd Guru, at least, read, accept, understand and love it. Guru Nanak in Siri Raag, Raag Sorath and watering his fields in Panjab from Ganges does teach how to be a farmer and how to follow his teachings. To farm you can’t throw the seed in a barren land but plough it, take the weeds out, level it, seed it water it and let the seed grow. Similarly you cannot jump to taking Amrit with subduing the lower instincts and developing virtues so you can keep the promise with the 10th Master. He writes about taking the inner filth out and make such a mint by melting the nector through Sabd. First one has to understand the Sabd before start following it;

ਸੁਣਿਆ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਭਾਉ ਅੰਤਰਗਤਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਮਲਿ ਨਾਉ ਸਭਿ ਗੁਣ ਤੇਰੇ ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ

Sui­ā mani­ā man kīā bā­o. Anargairath mal nā­o. Sab guėrė mai nāhī ko­ė. vi guė baga na ho­ė.

Listening and acceptance of the Word with love and humility cleanse the inner filth by pilgrimage of the sacred shrine deep within. All virtues are Yours, God, I have none at all. Without virtue, there is no devotional worship.

ਜਤੁ ਪਾਹਾਰਾ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ ਅਹਰਣਿ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਦੁ ਹਥੀਆਰੁ ਭਉ ਖਲਾ ਅਗਨਿ ਤਪ ਤਾਉ ਭਾਂਡਾ ਭਾਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਢਾਲਿ ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ

Ja pāhārā ḏẖīraj suni­ār. Ahra ma hathī­ār. Ba­o kalā agan ap ā­o. Bāʼndā bā­o amrii dāl. Gaī­ai saba sacī taksāl. Jin ka­o naar karam in kār. Nānak narī naar nihāl.

Let self-control be the furnace, and patience the goldsmith. Let understanding be the anvil, and spiritual wisdom the tools. With the Fear of God as the bellows, fan the flames of heat, the body's inner heat. In the crucible of love, melt the Nectar of the Name, and mint the True Coin of the Shabad, the Word of God. Such is the karma of those upon whom God has cast Its Glance of Grace. O, Nanak, the Merciful Akal Purkh, by Its Grace, uplifts and exalts them. ||38|| -----Guru Nanak, Japji

I will be posting the article “Understanding Sabd Guru” in the near future.

Thanks for giving me another chance to interact. I have nothing further to say on this thread.
Regards.

Virinder
 

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
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1,655
You should show the same humility and realize the Tenth Master took Amrit to set an example, that every Sikh should take Amrit.
Tenth master might have taken amrit to make it more attractive to his audience.
This might be a reaction from someone who hears that the tenth master took amrit, " Even the Guru took this amrit, there must be something in it!" :eek:
And this notion of there being something special in the Amrit drove many to take it, and became their strength when they fought with their heads in their hands.

This can be explained through the placebo effect. You know, when a patient thinks he is taking medicine but feels all better when the only thing he recieved were sugar pills. In the case of khalsa, we could say that it must've been the sweet water and the whole setup.

You seem to completely ignore that Khalsa could have been created by any of the previous Gurus. But it was Guru ogbind Singh ji who saw the need to create it. And we know that Mughals were at their worst in those times. So it makes sense to organize Sikhs into an army, and to drop the pen and lift the sword! And we can safely assume that it was created to oppose that oppression.

We know that SGGS has no discipline, meaning that is it does not tell you do this, do that, dont do this, dont do that, etc. But we know that the rehit does "order" like this. So we can safely assume that this rehit must be used to create discipline. This discipline was used to create armies.

Combine this discipline with the placebo effect and you got super soldiers read to pull out the mughal tree straight from the roots! That's PURE GENIUS, I say!

You don't win battles with humbleness, especially the kind of battles Mughals fought! You win them with strategy, morale, courage!
Guru Gobind Singh was an intelligent leader, he knew precisely how he could weaken if not annihilate the Mughal tyranny. He chose to create his discipline to directly oppose the Mughals.
He created Khalsa so everyone would feel a sense of belonging and sense of unity. This created high morale among his troops.
Courage came from both the placebo effect of amrit and the need to fight back.

If only people were so nice to just be nice to people who were humble! Just look around the forum. The people who come in as the most humble creatures, leave either being humiliated or being ****ed off!
Stop labelling Guru Gobind Singh as humble in everything he does! He was humble I agree but he was also intelligent! Intelligent persons know where they have to be humble and where they don't!
 
Tenth master might have taken amrit to make it more attractive to his audience.

Just how Guru Arjun Dev ji sat on the hot plate when Hot sand was poured over him. Guru Arjan Dev ji did this to make himself more attractive to his audience; the Sikh of that day. This is the logic you just used, now we know why Sikhi was created:rolleyes:

yeah Sikhi needs to be made attractive because that's the main purpose of the Sikhi to be flashy and have a cool look to it. Guru Sahib just said I'll make it flashy since they don't follow the teaching laid down by me earlier.:rolleyes: Get really buddy, this is not a fashion show.


This might be a reaction from someone who hears that the tenth master took amrit, " Even the Guru took this amrit, there must be something in it!" :eek:
And this notion of there being something special in the Amrit drove many to take it, and became their strength when they fought with their heads in their hands.

There is nothing special in the amrit because amrit is amrit, its pure and 110% true like Guru Sahib said.

This can be explained through the placebo effect. You know, when a patient thinks he is taking medicine but feels all better when the only thing he recieved were sugar pills. In the case of khalsa, we could say that it must've been the sweet water and the whole setup.

The placebo effect is to trick the mind that you have taken the pill with the medicine, but they give you a sugar pill that does not contain the medicine. So your're calling the amrit fake because it does not have the really amrit( being the medicine) in it as defined by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji said the amrit is real and by taking it one becomes pure. You just have spoken out at Guru Gobind Singh sahib ji and called him a lair. Nice to now what you thinkg of the Tenth Nanak

You seem to completely ignore that Khalsa could have been created by any of the previous Gurus. But it was Guru ogbind Singh ji who saw the need to create it. And we know that Mughals were at their worst in those times. So it makes sense to organize Sikhs into an army, and to drop the pen and lift the sword! And we can safely assume that it was created to oppose that oppression.

Your to ignorant to notice that we just fought the Indian army in 1984 and the Khalsa protected Akal Takht and Harmandir Sahib. And then Sikh were harassed, killed, tortured in the 1980's and 1990's The Khalsa was made to protect against all oppressions. Guru Sahib calls the Khalsa his form and whenever you want to see Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji look no further than the Panj Pyare

We know that SGGS has no discipline, meaning that is it does not tell you do this, do that, dont do this, dont do that, etc. But we know that the rehit does "order" like this. So we can safely assume that this rehit must be used to create discipline. This discipline was used to create armies.
And the army still exist, your too stubborn and ignorant to notice and will always exist.

Combine this discipline with the placebo effect and you got super soldiers read to pull out the mughal tree straight from the roots! That's PURE GENIUS, I say!

Once again calling the amrit fake and Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji called it pure and true. You have spoken against Guru sahib here and above.

You don't win battles with humbleness, especially the kind of battles Mughals fought! You win them with strategy, morale, courage!
Guru Gobind Singh was an intelligent leader, he knew precisely how he could weaken if not annihilate the Mughal tyranny. He chose to create his discipline to directly oppose the Mughals.

You can be humble and courage at the sametime, this is one of the things Guru sahib taught with creating the Khalsa.

He created Khalsa so everyone would feel a sense of belonging and sense of unity. This created high morale among his troops.

There was already a belonging being established before its called being Sikh of the Guru. Guru Sahib did not need to establish another belonging. Khalsa is the form of Sikhi that Guru Nanak Dev ji started and Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji finished.

Courage came from both the placebo effect of amrit and the need to fight back.

Keep calling it fake, Guru Sahib will deal with you in the Lord's Court.


If only people were so nice to just be nice to people who were humble! Just look around the forum. The people who come in as the most humble creatures, leave either being humiliated or being ****ed off!
Stop labelling Guru Gobind Singh as humble in everything he does! He was humble I agree but he was also intelligent! Intelligent persons know where they have to be humble and where they don't!

You can be humble and intelligent at the sametime, which Guru Sahib was. He was always humble because he never waivered. A person that is not pure only waivers in duality and Guru Sahib was not in duality he was true 110% and pure as the Shabad Guru.

Also Guru HarGobind Singh Sahib ji was fighting wars already even before Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's time. There was a army already created by Guru HarGobind Singh Sahib ji. Or are you going to say Guru HarGobind Singh Sahib ji fough alone without anyone. Also Miri and Piri was established by Guru HarGobind Singh Sahib ji and carrying of the sword by the Sikhs to protect.

And as Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji knew we would face oppressor in the future he gave the Sikhs of Sri Guru Guru Granth Sahib ji a form which is pure and completely true; the Khalsa Panth.

And if I have missed any flaws in bhagat singh's post, please Gyani ji and G Singh ji or any other member feel free to point them out and I will elobrate further if I see more flaws.

Humble servant Singh
 
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