Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana - A Debate

[Inder singh]

Re: Allagation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

To know this you need to raed sikh hsitory.How sukhi kahan was killed in na live brick oven.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Which Narankari's are you refereing to?

I am sure you are aware there is a difference between Uslee and Naquli Narankari's? You are aware that the uslee Narankari's are responsible for Sikhism and much of its present day form?

she clearly stated "SANT" nirankaris... also called false nirankaris or narkdharis.

i'm sure you've heard this term before.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Re: Allagation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

I think I may have read this. Get the source. You are however missing my point. Whether he feinted or didn't is irrelevant. We are arguing about an irrelevant point.

if it's irrelevant, why do KA and that ghaggha fellow make such a big issue over it? could it be because they KNOW it will make many sikhs feel uncomfortable? could it be because they're trying to sow dissension in the panth?

I do not believe in miracles, and the Guru's own conduct confirms this. They did not perform miracles and did not ascribe to them.

have you read the speeches of Sant Bhindranwale? you say you respect him... he tells many stories of miracles, including the beheading and reviving of the panj piyare.

There is nothing insulting in calling Guru's Human Beings. They were just that. They were not Gods, Demi-God's, Alien BEINGS. They were Human beings, albeit Human Beings with a much higher level of conscience than the average human. Their bodies felt pain, they felt love, they felt anguish. What made them different from the average human was their ability to control their human emotions.

This game of playing miracles and one upmanship is the distasteful aspect I find in other faiths. The only way they can prove how great and religious their religious figures were is by stating how many miracles their own figures made. Luckily for us Sikhism does not play such a game.

you're right, our Gurus did not "play" miracles or use them for oneupmanship. that's the whole point! Guru sahib could have done anything. but they never did anything for personal gain, only to help others.

by calling them normal human beings, do you deny the jot of Waheguru passed from one guru to the next? i've had this discussion recently, i can't remember if it was with you or not. let me know if you need supporting gurbani.

I have a problem with all organisations that cause division in Sikhism, and in particular with those (like these), that have Vashnavite leanings.

AKJ is particular is responsible for a wave of intolerance, remanicent of Wahabism, that is plagueing Sikhism at the moment.

interesting. i've found AKJ to be the MOST tolerant of all the punjabi sikhs i've met. no other group of people is more accepting of any sikh, from any caste, nationality, etc... as long as one is honestly trying to become a good Sikh and find Waheguru, they accept everyone with open arms. AKJ smagaams are the ONLY Sikh events/gurdwaras i've been to, in the US, Canada, or India, where i'm not stared at like some sort of alien invader. i've been welcomed into homes, given food, a place to sleep... all of the things Sikhs are supposed to do, but don't when they see my "gori" face.

the idea that they are intolerant or "wahabiest" is contrary to everything i have experienced. so i guess i feel it a bit personally when someone makes these insulting comments about the most devoted group of Sikhs i have ever encountered.

i wonder if you're confusing tapoban.org with the Jatha in general? there does seem to be a bit of a difference.

I normally try not to get too involved in debates outside Bani and Bani interpretation, however, I find witch hunts of individuals such as KA by organisation such as AKJ, newspapers like Panthic Weekly (should be renamed Pathetic Weekly) etc distasteful. Even more than KA, these organisations and institutions, by their autocratic actions are undermining the Sikhism.

*******

KA has INVITED this criticism by questioning some of the foundations of our faith. he questions Guru. sikhs are supposed to learn, to question, but not question Guru! sikh isn't only a student, it's a student OF GURU. i know you know this. when the student questions his master, perhaps it's time to find a new master or go off on one's own. rather than drag down all the other students with him.

i don't see the "autocratic" actions of AKJ. they accept Sikhs of any caste, sect, colour, etc. they accept Akal Takht as the temporal authority of Sikhs, as created by Guru Hargobind Sahib. they don't tell the panth to follow their stricter rehet, they do that on their own. they may invite others to join them, but they don't enforce it.

AK and his ilk, on the other hand, flaunt their distain for Akal Takht. who is dividing the panth? i think the answer is clear.

I believe in giving people a fair chance, and demonising them and posting cases of sexual allegations are not the ways to do it. Lets debate the issue, not the person. It is not secret that Bhai Randhir Singh's fanatical followers have an axe to grind against KA. I think they will stoop to any lengths to try and discredit him, rather than challenge his beliefs. I have not seen anyone actually debate what this fellow wrote. The same happened with that Professor Ghaggha fellow.

it's not only "Bhai Randhir Singh's fanatical followers", it's the majority of the panth. most sikhs i know in person don't even know who KA is, but when they read his positions... they're just as against him as any jatha or group.

i've seen multiple videos of debates, i've even posted a few. i'm sure you can find some.

of course, the fact that KA is banned from most gurdwaras in north america and is declared tankhaiya makes it difficult to debate him.


btw, in your effort to debate the issues, not the people, ********************

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

I believe in giving people a fair chance, and demonising them and posting cases of sexual allegations are not the ways to do it. Lets debate the issue, not the person. It is not secret that Bhai Randhir Singh's fanatical followers have an axe to grind against KA. I think they will stoop to any lengths to try and discredit him, rather than challenge his beliefs. I have not seen anyone actually debate what this fellow wrote. The same happened with that Professor Ghaggha fellow.

I didn't even read this part. How can we give KA a fair chance when the authority isn't in our hands to decide on his case? His case has already been decided. How can we demonize KA when his own utterances speak for themselves regarding his position as not believing in Sikhism, yet dressing and playing the part of an amritdhari granthi? No one posted cases of sexual allegations. We posted a case of conviction which is a matter of public record and materially goes to the issue of his character and behavior as an amritdhari granthi in Gurdwara betraying his position of trust, and WHILE he was writing those objectionable books.

Furthermore, if someone in a position of trust, like a granthi or a Catholic priest is involved in a scandal involving sexual misconduct with congregants, then the sangat has a positive duty to warn about the objectionable actions of such a person. Evil thrives in the dark. So it's always best to keep the lights on. Otherwise more unsuspecting people could be hurt, not only by actions but by the hypocrisy in his pretense to be an amritdhari granthi who broke his amrit and doesn't even believe in the faith. Sikhism doesn't need imposters, nor does it need an atmosphere which allows imposters to be protected from exposure at the expense of those who are trusting. It's absolutely refreshing to see a religion esposing charlatans instead of hiding them like the scandal which befell the Catholic Church.

Protecting evil never benefits anyone. If KA had done nothing more than abuse his trust as a granthi, it would be objectionable enough. No one has to demonize him. His own actions speak louder than his words.

I normally try not to get too involved in debates outside Bani and Bani interpretation, however, I find witch hunts of individuals such as KA by organisation such as AKJ, newspapers like Panthic Weekly (should be renamed Pathetic Weekly) etc distasteful. Even more than KA, these organisations and institutions, by their autocratic actions are undermining the Sikhism.

And in what way are AKJ and Panthic Weekly autocratic? They made no decisions regarding KA. the Panj Piare of Akal Takht Sahib did based on their review and interaction with KA. So if you have an accusation of being autocratic to make, stop hedging and blame Akal Takht. And in what way is esposing a charlatan and probable GOI intelligence operative undermining Sikhism? Yet the fellow who was convicted of sexual battery while acting in capacity of a granthi, who wrote books which undermined every tenet of Sikh religion while posing as a true believer is being "demonized" and the organizations which didn't tolerate his shenanigans are "distasteful?"

This is my legitimate question. If people don't believe in Sikh religion... why do they stay in it? It's a sincere question. I left Christian religion because I didn't believe in it. I don't go to Christian websites and bother Christians about their beliefs because I hate missionary propagandists. If KA and others do not respect the right of Sikh people to believe in Sikh religion, why don't they form their own dera and do their own thing? you see it's only missionaries and the GOI with a vested interest in preaching to Sikhs AGAINST Sikh religion. My answer to such people... get a grip, and go find a religion you do believe in. And stop bashing the Sikh Panth.

We don't need molesters like KA, and we don't need people to erode confidence in Sikh faith. People who are dying from cancer don't need to hear, there is no heaven, there is no hell, there is no soul, there is no afterlife, you can't rely on Guru because he's only human and makes mistakes, Gurbani is a lie, etc. People believe in Sikh religion for their own intimate reasons and it's absolutely scandalous that people would publicly undermine that faith. They are worse than Christian and Muslim missionaries because they pretend to be Sikhs when they don't believe in Sikhism and undermine other Sikh's faith.

It isn't a witch hunt because KA is free to do as he wants. He's only prevented from mascarading as a believer in Sikhism, ie., a SIKH. I feel so much safer, as a female, in a religion which exposes predators. I was in a Catholic convent. And I left everything after the priest molestation scandals were coming out. And I never looked back. That kind of hypocrisy is material to the faith and people lose faith when abusers betray their trust. It's kudos to that religion with enough integrity to defend the trusting, and not the abusers. What kind of religion is it where you can't protect your own women and children from harm. And I can't imagine a religion where you can't even respect your own beliefs but tolerate preachers who preach against them.

The answer is simple, people who believe what KA preaches should just leave Sikh religion and stop trying to destroy the faith that others have in Sikhism. We don't need more "open-mindedness." We just need more healthy self-respect. And anyone who doesn't have respect for our beliefs should go find a faith he does believe in and respect and stop hurting all our sentiments.

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

It is not secret that Bhai Randhir Singh's fanatical followers have an axe to grind against KA. I think they will stoop to any lengths to try and discredit him, rather than challenge his beliefs.

Please Debate the Issue, Not the Person. Strictly Adhere to SPN Rules. Keep Your SPN Clean. Thank You

***** No one is stooping to discredit a man convicted of sexual assault. He discredited himself. No one has an axe to grind when someone says Gurbani is just the utterances of an ordinary human who makes mistakes and that bani is untrue and ridicules people who believe in that bani. That person is an apostate to the Sikh religion and he was cast out by Akal Takht, not AKJ or Panthic Weekly. And AKJ and Panthic Weekly don't owe him any open-mindedness to tolerate him preaching hate of Sikhism to Sikhs.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

***** does not know the episode of sulhi khana being burnt in a brick kiln.He says that it is not a miracle.

Remember God perfoms miracles for His bhagats when he wants.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Jios

I really did not want to do this. But a better understanding is needed of the forum rule Please Debate the Issue, Not the Person. Strictly Adhere to SPN Rules. Keep Your SPN Clean. Thank You. This rule pertains to and applies to situations where forum members attack other forum members verbally. Attacks includes but is not limited to all kinds of name-calling, accusations and allegations of moral, religious, ethical, mental, emotoinal, personal, political, financial, astrological, and physical deformity or unfitness to express an opinion.

The rule in no way discourages forum members from being as critical as they feel they must be of movements, issues, groups. public figures, works of art and literature, organizations, philosophies, religions, political parties, and the like. Just as long as threats are not made, personal hostility is kept in check, and laws pertaining to the Internet are not broken, and there is no obvious intent to mislead others through factual inaccuracies. Many forums screen comments before they are posted. SPN does not do that. Our philosophy places on each member the responsibility to police his/her own words and arguments, to give everyone credit for being able to decide.

In this debate no one so far has taken the side of KA. All the differences of opinion have been about interpretations of his words and actions. Yet, the slightest hint of disagreement has led to invective.

A warning has been issued. And so now this rule will be enforced.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Jios,

If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Harjas Ji,

I see you very concerned about the Sikhs esp in Punjab. This article is a must read to understand various similarities affecting Russia then and Punjab now.

Soviet conception of human rights
The Soviet conception of human rights was very different from conceptions prevalent in the West. According to Western legal theory, "it is the individual who is the beneficiary of human rights which are to be asserted against the government", whereas Soviet law claimed exactly the opposite [2]. The Soviet state was considered as the source of human rights. Therefore, Soviet law rejected the Western concept of the "rule of law" as the belief that law should be more than just instrument of politics. The political and civil rights were considered meaningless without basic "economic rights", which are the provision of basic health care, adequate nutrition, and the right to an education, rather than liberal property rights. Finally, each individual had to sacrifice his rights and desires to fulfill the needs of the collective.

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: Allagation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

if it's irrelevant, why do KA and that ghaggha fellow make such a big issue over it? could it be because they KNOW it will make many sikhs feel uncomfortable? could it be because they're trying to sow dissension in the panth?

To me its irrelevant, but I would still want to know what their reasoning behind this? What were they challenging? Were they challenging the belief held by some that our Guru's were God's? I would like to know their motivation? Btw how do you know their intention is to make Sikhs uncomfortable? Or sow dissention in the Paanth?

have you read the speeches of Sant Bhindranwale? you say you respect him... he tells many stories of miracles, including the beheading and reviving of the panj piyare.

Just because you respect someone does not mean you hand on every word. I respect Bhaghat Singh, but I don't believe in Communism like he did.

you're right, our Gurus did not "play" miracles or use them for oneupmanship. that's the whole point! Guru sahib could have done anything. but they never did anything for personal gain, only to help others.

I kind of agree.

by calling them normal human beings, do you deny the jot of Waheguru passed from one guru to the next? i've had this discussion recently, i can't remember if it was with you or not. let me know if you need supporting gurbani.

What has the physical human body got to do with the soul? This outer shell just temporarily houses us. The Guru's physical body has no bearing on whether the Jyot passed or not. The Jyot was lit by one Guru to the next.

interesting. i've found AKJ to be the MOST tolerant of all the punjabi sikhs i've met. no other group of people is more accepting of any sikh, from any caste, nationality, etc... as long as one is honestly trying to become a good Sikh and find Waheguru, they accept everyone with open arms. AKJ smagaams are the ONLY Sikh events/gurdwaras i've been to, in the US, Canada, or India, where i'm not stared at like some sort of alien invader. i've been welcomed into homes, given food, a place to sleep... all of the things Sikhs are supposed to do, but don't when they see my "gori" face.

That’s very good. They are doing something right.

the idea that they are intolerant or "wahabiest" is contrary to everything i have experienced. so i guess i feel it a bit personally when someone makes these insulting comments about the most devoted group of Sikhs i have ever encountered.

i wonder if you're confusing tapoban.org with the Jatha in general? there does seem to be a bit of a difference.

I think there is a hardcore minority I have encountered in groups like AKJ, GNSSJ, DDT etc that seem to be intolerant of the views of other groups and even mainstream Sikhism.

I think we need to step back and ensure we are not going down the line of what other faiths have. The fanaticism in Christianity that resulted in Crusades, Spanish Inquisitions>>>the fanaticism in Islam, Sharia Law, Wahabism etc etc, >>>>these things are what we as Sikhs can learn from and ensure Sikhism does not end up down that route.

KA has INVITED this criticism by questioning some of the foundations of our faith. he questions Guru. sikhs are supposed to learn, to question, but not question Guru! sikh isn't only a student, it's a student OF GURU. i know you know this. when the student questions his master, perhaps it's time to find a new master or go off on one's own. rather than drag down all the other students with him.

There have been instances when the Paanth have overuled their Guru. A famous incident where the 5 beloved made the 10th Master follow their dictat.

I do however see your point. I would ask, has KA challenged the foundations of Sikhism, or challenged the view of some Sikhs, namely AKJ followers?

i don't see the "autocratic" actions of AKJ. they accept Sikhs of any caste, sect, colour, etc. they accept Akal Takht as the temporal authority of Sikhs, as created by Guru Hargobind Sahib. they don't tell the panth to follow their stricter rehet, they do that on their own. they may invite others to join them, but they don't enforce it.

AK and his ilk, on the other hand, flaunt their distain for Akal Takht. who is dividing the panth? i think the answer is clear.

Come on. AKJers I know clearly show their disdain for the Rehat Maryada and the Akal Takht. They continually challenge. Bhai Randhir is a classic example of this.

KA I don't think has any disdain but has been clumsy in his points he is making. Going through the main things he has said I can't find anything so offensive I would want to excommunicate him. What we should have done is had a minuted debate with our best scholars and him, and let the Paanth decide.

it's not only "Bhai Randhir Singh's fanatical followers", it's the majority of the panth. most sikhs i know in person don't even know who KA is, but when they read his positions... they're just as against him as any jatha or group.

i've seen multiple videos of debates, i've even posted a few. i'm sure you can find some.

I've never been for him or against him. Reason why? I don't trust what is going on with our Sikh institutions. I certainly do not trust the AKJ. The majority of people I know have the same opinion as me. I am not affiliated to any Jatha or organisation. I am just an ordinary Sikh trying to make sense of this mad world.

of course, the fact that KA is banned from most gurdwaras in north america and is declared tankhaiya makes it difficult to debate him.

Shame really. I don't think it's healthy for Sikhism to have people doing what they want on the outside. Bring them in and see what they have to say.

btw, in your effort to debate the issues, not the people, ********************

I don't know what you wrote but I am sure it wasn't nice. I am disappointed at the lack of a more mature attituted.

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

A great example of Pulizer Prize Journalism from Panthic Weekly or not?

Panthic Weekly: Inder Ghagga loses debates to Panthic Singhs in Toronto

According to several eyewitnesses interviewed by Panthic Weekly, Ghagga became so uneasy that he asked for drinking water three times. Witnesses stated that his hands were trembling and he was perspiring heavily throughout the debate. It was clear that the fierce 'debater' Ghagga had lost his bearing.

Who were these eyewitnesses? Dam I should stop drinking water, when I lecture for an hour I need at least two glasses of water? I would be trembling if I knew their were nutcases present who had tried to attack me before present? (actually I wouldn't tremble probably because I am nuttier than the nutcases).

Ghagga lost the entire debate on all subjects and afterwards some neutral Singhs insisted that another debate be set at a public venue. The date was set for October 1, 2006 at 9am, but Ghagga never showed up. Via third parties, and with great difficulty, he was persuaded to debate and finally the debate was set up for about 4 hours later at 1pm.

Who says he lost the deabte? Who were these neutral 3rd parties? I watched the Ghagga debate video and he doesn't seem to have lost his nerve, if anything he's quite defiant?

It is interesting to note that the Panthic Singhs led by Kulbir Singh did not have any prior public debating experience, yet they were successful in defeating someone such as Ghagga who has spent his entire life in such controversies. Instead of debating on the contentious issues, Ghagga kept digressing and changing subjects. This further proved that he could no longer defend himself or his philosophy.

Who says Kulbir Singh was sucessful? Who says he kept digressing? Maybe he was talking about the backround to issues? My experience leads me to believe that most Sikhs (many Panthic ones), are not even aware of the basics of Sikh History.

According to eyewitnesses, having lost twice on all subjects, Ghagga left as a very upset man. He has declined to debate any further. His skills seems more fitted for an arguer than a true debater.

Who are these eyewitnesses that keep appearing? Werer they holding the camera? Who are these mysterious eyewitness people?

Subsequent to this debate, the Panthic Singhs had challenged him for another debate and the challenge was published in the Punjabi Post, a Toronto based newspaper. However, the man who boasted so much on the radio waves that not a single Singh in Toronto can debate him, had now become silent. Publicly it is now clear that these so-called scholars are merely paper tigers.

Maybe he has gone silent because he didn't want to be physically assaulted?

Now lets see the same debate in Sikh Times:

The Sikh Times - News and Analysis - Inder Singh Ghagga Excommunicated

Makes me think.....hmmm?

Panthic Weekly or Sikh Times.....I would rather read the latter.

some more views:

Tuhady Pattar (Your view)

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

It is not secret that Bhai Randhir Singh's fanatical followers have an axe to grind against KA. I think they will stoop to any lengths to try and discredit him, rather than challenge his beliefs.

In the above direct quote, a particular moderator is alleging: "I think they (AKJ) will stoop to any lengths to try and discredit him, rather than challenge his beliefs."

********************************************

In this debate no one so far has taken the side of KA. All the differences of opinion have been about interpretations of his words and actions. Yet, the slightest hint of disagreement has led to invective.

Yet, the slightest hint of disagreement has led toinvective.

I*************************************************

Anyone who goes around erasing words can make them say anything *********************************


Yet, the slightest hint of disagreement has led to invective.
Noun 1: invective - abusive or venomous language used to express blame or censure or bitter deep-seated ill will. Language characterized by insult or abuse. Vituperation, vitriol. Insult, revilement, vilification, abuse - a rude expression intended to offend or hurt; "when a student made a stupid mistake he spared them no abuse"; "they yelled insults at the visiting team."

[/quote]Here you are erasing words where we name the moderator so that he can own his statements very clearly. No one has spoken rudely, with venom, with vitriol, with bitter deep-seated ill-will in a way to cause anquish. *************************************************
**********************************Yet by his very words and deeds, it is clear KA accuses himself, and Akal Takht Sahib Ji Panj Piare have declared him exscommunicated, not AKJ sangat. *****************

If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like.

The only people who have no freedom of speech here are those defending AKJ sangat. Why is AKJ being personally attacked over a thread questioning the behaviors of KA? Why is AKJ being scapegoated to avoid the reality that Akal Takht is the sole authority regarding determination of his excommunication? These are groundless attacks which are unjustified, repetitively claimed without evidence to back them up. It is a diversionary tactic to smear the reputation of a Panthic Jatha in order to create a smokescreen defense for a declared apostate.

***************************************

In this debate no one so far has taken the side of KA. All the differences of opinion have been about interpretations of his words and actions.

**************************************************I think there is a hardcore minority I have encountered in groups like AKJ, GNSSJ, DDT etc that seem to be intolerant of the views of other groups and even mainstream Sikhism. I think we need to step back and ensure we are not going down the line of what other faiths have. The fanaticism in Christianity that resulted in Crusades, Spanish Inquisitions>>>the fanaticism in Islam, Sharia Law, Wahabism etc etc, >>>>these things are what we as Sikhs can learn from and ensure Sikhism does not end up down that route."
And he makes these spurious attacks that mainstream Panthic Jathas which support the authority of Akal Takht are like Crusades and Spanish Inquisition, Sharia and Whabism, Fanaticism, etc. ***********************


In his last letter written to Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, Jathedar, Akal Takht, Mr Kala Afghana had used derogatory language describing him as a ‘liar’ and ‘maha pappi’. Taking serious note of the language used, Jathedar Vedanti said it was unpardonable.
The Sikh high priests said if Mr Kala Afghana failed to appear before Akal Takht by July 10, he would be punished as per the Sikh ‘maryada’. In such a case Mr Kala Afghana could be declared excommunicated from the Panth.
The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News
[/quote]Sri Akal Takht Sahib Warns Kala Afghana Supporters
http://www.khalsaalliance.org/news.php?pagename=index&article=13
Sri Akal Takht Calls For Boycott Of Ghugga
Shinda’s Spot Akaal Takhat Calls for Boycott of Ghagga
Boycott In Effect
Panthic Weekly: AKAL TAKHT SUMMONS GHAGGA AND PARTY, Boycott In Effect


By defending and repeatedly airing the views of a censured apostate as "reasonable," attempting to whitewash his tankiya and paint it in a better light by blaming Panthic Jathas for falsely impugning him, for attacking the credibility of Akal Takht for excommunication of Kala Afghana "unreasonable," for defending position of Ghugga, etc, all censured supporters of KA. *************************

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

btw, in your effort to debate the issues, not the people, ********************

I don't know what you wrote but I am sure it wasn't nice. I am disappointed at the lack of a more mature attituted.

__________________

**********************************************

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

According to several eyewitnesses interviewed by Panthic Weekly, Ghagga became so uneasy that he asked for drinking water three times. Witnesses stated that his hands were trembling and he was perspiring heavily throughout the debate. It was clear that the fierce 'debater' Ghagga had lost his bearing.

Who were these eyewitnesses? Dam I should stop drinking water, when I lecture for an hour I need at least two glasses of water? I would be trembling if I knew their were nutcases present who had tried to attack me before present? (actually I wouldn't tremble probably because I am nuttier than the nutcases).

More evidence of abusiveness and lack of impartiality, hurting the sentiments of Sikhs such as myself to wage personal attack against the Tapoban Singhs calling them "nutcases" and allege without evidence they tried to attack Ghugga physically and thus made him tremble."

****YOU DO NOT REPRESENT ALL SIKH SENTIMENT. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION. THATS IT.*******

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

My experience leads me to believe that most Sikhs (many Panthic ones), are not even aware of the basics of Sikh History.

Panthic Weekly: Inder Ghagga loses debates to Panthic Singhs in Toronto

Subsequent to this debate, the Panthic Singhs had challenged him for another debate and the challenge was published in the Punjabi Post, a Toronto based newspaper. However, the man who boasted so much on the radio waves that not a single Singh in Toronto can debate him, had now become silent. Publicly it is now clear that these so-called scholars are merely paper tigers.

Maybe he has gone silent because he didn't want to be physically assaulted?

********************************

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Aad002

I did not state anthing incorrect.People who do not know the history of sulhi khan are casting doubts on Gurbani.A sikh calls a spade a spade.

A complete court judgement has been cited here.yet some persons say that it is not authentic.And you say that nobody is supporting kala here.What does this mean?

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Kala afghana attacks in the worst possible way all established sikh traditions including respect for SGGS,kirtan maryada,sikh marriage ceremony,Harmandir sahib,struggle of sikhs in 1990s,sikh rehat maryada,ardas and banis of nitnem.

Does the gentleman posting above knows this?He was called to akal takhat to ask him about clarification on these issues.He did not go on one pretext or the other.

The gentleman says that he was not engaged in discussion.Again very incorrect statement.

See FORT: PANTH KHALSA

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

see these videos Kala afghana in debate

YouTube - Sants Vs Afgana Part 1 - (Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji)

YouTube - Sants Vs Afgana Part 2 - (Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji)

 

[Admin]

Please Note : As this topic covers a wide range of issues relating to Kala Afgana, the person, the topic heading has been generalized to avoid any mis-representation to a new reader. Please be informed.

 

[spnadmin]

Thank you for pointing this out, Aman ji.