Sikh News Granthi Caught Watching Porn Clips In Gurdwara

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May 28, 2009
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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh........


First Granthi IS Baba Budda Ji...( I used IS rather than WAS) and anybody sitting at Granthi's Place , (Beed of Guru Ji), is to be treated like Baba Budda Ji....Same way that Granthi has to think that he is a servant of Guru and Sangat. But do we think like that ?


4. conscious of someone not following the "maryada" of being in gurudwara

Sangat is Guru swaroop...so we should not be conscious looking out for these things...but if we see such things.... we have to convey him/her politely....its our duty towards Guru...if we can't do that...and keep quiet because we are afraid, we are under pressue of our portfolio...we think what people will say....what they will think...then we are not true Sikhs..........


5. making note of the suit the other lady was wearing
I agree with this because something different attracts attention....now a days I realize that ladies are not wearing proper dress...I feel ashamed when they wear low neck suits... tight jeans, short t-shirts....they are equally contributing the factor...what they want to show...their body ?....or want to seduce people at Gurdwara ? or they are trying to test the goodness of Sangat by showing their body ?.... they should be conscious....Guru is not attracted by such things...but they piling up their wrong deeds buy doing such things.....


couple of day back I was watching news on NDTV...there is a case...a guy got a girl of age of around 25-28 yrs....girl is saying that she got married...and his husband and his father-in-law, who also raped her, saying that they bought her for Rs.30,000. Husband is not keshdhari...but his father is Keshdhari...age of around 65-70...a old guy....with full beard....Its so sick....a guy with Sabat Swaroop...is doing such things....hasn't he thought of Guru Ji...in his swaroop....before doing such things....

I am thinking that such people should also be punished my Sikhs at Gurdwara..lets sangat decide what should be done with such guys...I thought we should cut his hairs and beard....because this is the insult of whole Sikhism....at Manu's time..this was the rule...well this is what I thought...I may be wrong............

Comments are welcome....

Chardi Kala......
 

Archived_Member_19

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Adkhalsa ji

thanks for your response

I have a few points, please bear with me

<<First Granthi IS Baba Budda Ji...( I used IS rather than WAS) and anybody sitting at Granthi's Place , (Beed of Guru Ji), is to be treated like Baba Budda Ji....Same way that Granthi has to think that he is a servant of Guru and Sangat. But do we think like that ?>>

We all read SGGS on our laptops or from the Beed. have you had your mind wander from the reading?
Have we multitasked on laptops while reading SGGS?

Isn't everyone a granthi while reading SGGS?


<<<I agree with this because something different attracts attention....now a days I realize that ladies are not wearing proper dress...I feel ashamed when they wear low neck suits... tight jeans, short t-shirts....they are equally contributing the factor...what they want to show...their body ?....or want to seduce people at Gurdwara ? or they are trying to test the goodness of Sangat by showing their body ?.... they should be conscious....Guru is not attracted by such things...but they piling up their wrong deeds buy doing such things.....>>>

once again,

isn't this a very cultural thing?

what is appropriate dress for a western is inappropriate for an Indian/punjabi. Where do we draw a line?

this opens up a completely new discussion - are low neck dresses "un-sikh" ?

i am not sure what "un-sikh" is but you have called it as a wrong deed.

<I am thinking that such people should also be punished my Sikhs at Gurdwara..lets sangat decide what should be done with such guys...I thought we should cut his hairs and beard....because this is the insult of whole Sikhism....at Manu's time..this was the rule...well this is what I thought...I may be wrong............>

i strongly believe that only law of the land should handle such things. This is another topic - Tankhah, that was discussed separately.

unless the man himself wants to be reprimanded, no one has a right to do any bodily harm to him.
 
May 28, 2009
162
115
Adkhalsa ji

thanks for your response

I have a few points, please bear with me

<<First Granthi IS Baba Budda Ji...( I used IS rather than WAS) and anybody sitting at Granthi's Place , (Beed of Guru Ji), is to be treated like Baba Budda Ji....Same way that Granthi has to think that he is a servant of Guru and Sangat. But do we think like that ?>>

We all read SGGS on our laptops or from the Beed. have you had your mind wander from the reading?
Have we multitasked on laptops while reading SGGS?

Isn't everyone a granthi while reading SGGS?


<<<I agree with this because something different attracts attention....now a days I realize that ladies are not wearing proper dress...I feel ashamed when they wear low neck suits... tight jeans, short t-shirts....they are equally contributing the factor...what they want to show...their body ?....or want to seduce people at Gurdwara ? or they are trying to test the goodness of Sangat by showing their body ?.... they should be conscious....Guru is not attracted by such things...but they piling up their wrong deeds buy doing such things.....>>>

once again,

isn't this a very cultural thing?

what is appropriate dress for a western is inappropriate for an Indian/punjabi. Where do we draw a line?

this opens up a completely new discussion - are low neck dresses "un-sikh" ?

i am not sure what "un-sikh" is but you have called it as a wrong deed.

<I am thinking that such people should also be punished my Sikhs at Gurdwara..lets sangat decide what should be done with such guys...I thought we should cut his hairs and beard....because this is the insult of whole Sikhism....at Manu's time..this was the rule...well this is what I thought...I may be wrong............>

i strongly believe that only law of the land should handle such things. This is another topic - Tankhah, that was discussed separately.

unless the man himself wants to be reprimanded, no one has a right to do any bodily harm to him.

Waheguru Ji Ka khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh....

I specified "Beed of Guru Ji"....I hope this will clarify you doubts....

are low neck dresses "un-sikh"

I have not mentioned that as UN-SIKH..... this is your perception and thought....I am saying that Seducing others is wrong..... and Gurdwara is not a place to seduce.... we wander around Naked..in earlier ages....but gradually human race found a way to cover his body.... it doen't mean we should draw a line between today and 1000 years ago..........whole sangat is not brahm gayani ....so we have to make sure that our act should not disturb others....


I agree with you on Tankhah.... Sangat or Panj Pyare will decide the Tankhah.........

Chardi Kala..
 

Tejwant Singh

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just to play the devil's advocte:

how many of us have not had our minds wander off while in gurudwara?

Just recall if you were not:

1. thinking of the mortgage that has high rate
2. The new car you saw in the gurudwara parking lot
3. irritated by the pitch of gyani's voice
4. conscious of someone not following the "maryada" of being in gurudwara
5. making note of the suit the other lady was wearing
6. Thinking about langar

.........
there are many more
...

:)

It is Huck_Finn's specialty to mix apples and oranges and claim it as his unique way of expressing. Nothing new here.:)
 

Archived_Member_19

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<<Waheguru Ji Ka khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh....

I specified "Beed of Guru Ji"....I hope this will clarify you doubts....>>

thanks

so does Reading from the Beed differ from reading from my laptop?

Is the Beed my Guru or the Shabd?

<<I have not mentioned that as UN-Sikh..... this is your perception and thought....I am saying that Seducing others is wrong..... and Gurdwara is not a place to seduce.... we wander around Naked..in earlier ages....but gradually human race found a way to cover his body.... it doen't mean we should draw a line between today and 1000 years ago..........whole sangat is not brahm gayani ....so we have to make sure that our act should not disturb others....>>

i got your point. but when someone steps outside the Gurudwara, he/she faces the same temptations. Is it okay then?

the point I am trying to make is,

is it kay to have double standards, one for inside the Gurdwara and one for outside?

If you would object someone inside Gurudwara- would you do the same if it was a bus and someone sat near you?

What i mean to say is:

We face temptations day in day out in every scenario.... Guruji teach us how to win over those while being with the worldly things. We are not perfect, no one is but Akal only.

--------------

coming back to the Granthi's misdemeanor -

what do you think would be a good qualification for a Granthi?

How can we check a person's morals and piety?

Who would be the sanctioning authority?

Who would give the seal of correctness?
 
May 28, 2009
162
115
<<Waheguru Ji Ka khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh....

I specified "Beed of Guru Ji"....I hope this will clarify you doubts....>>

thanks

so does Reading from the Beed differ from reading from my laptop?

Is the Beed my Guru or the Shabd?

<<I have not mentioned that as UN-Sikh..... this is your perception and thought....I am saying that Seducing others is wrong..... and Gurdwara is not a place to seduce.... we wander around Naked..in earlier ages....but gradually human race found a way to cover his body.... it doen't mean we should draw a line between today and 1000 years ago..........whole sangat is not brahm gayani ....so we have to make sure that our act should not disturb others....>>

i got your point. but when someone steps outside the Gurudwara, he/she faces the same temptations. Is it okay then?

the point I am trying to make is,

is it kay to have double standards, one for inside the Gurdwara and one for outside?

If you would object someone inside Gurudwara- would you do the same if it was a bus and someone sat near you?

What i mean to say is:

We face temptations day in day out in every scenario.... Guruji teach us how to win over those while being with the worldly things. We are not perfect, no one is but Akal only.

--------------

coming back to the Granthi's misdemeanor -

what do you think would be a good qualification for a Granthi?

How can we check a person's morals and piety?

Who would be the sanctioning authority?

Who would give the seal of correctness?


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...Waheguur Ji Ki Fateh....

First of all , be clear that Baani Guru Guru Hai Baani........ either its written on a piece of paper, either its Nitnem Pothi....its respectful... be clear at this point...we are not idol worshipper.... there are many cases that people burned the Swaroop of SGGS....its doesn't mean that our Guru is no more.... so clear up you mind of this.... Sangat is a roop of Guru, Panj Pyare is roop of Guru... Reciting Baani from Laptop is as respectul as you are reciting sitting at Tabya, Beed...and reciting from Guru Swaroop.... but it doen't mean that I will start bowing to Laptop.... you have to understand...you can bow to baani in the laptop....that you have think what are you doing ...and what you want to do... its like...bowing to Gurdwara while travelling....because our Guru is there...Sangat is there....its a place where everybody comes and recite baani...that's why its respectful.... you have to clear up first..what you are thinking at that moment.....

Beed or Tabya is not Guru.... you are a senior member at SPN and asking such questions.....No probs...its fine... a doubt is a doubt....

we should not be of double standard... be one...whatever you are inside.. be the same outside...

We face temptations day in day out in every scenario.... Guruji teach us how to win over those while being with the worldly things. We are not perfect, no one is but Akal only.

I agree with you....we are not perfect...Guru Ji teach us all these...but no body becomes perfect in one day.... we can be perfect like Guru and Akal...but that's with his grace...

Baba Budda Ji..Baba Deep Singh Ji.....Kabir Ji..Bhagat Namdev ji......and many others are perfect....

"I am not killing somebody...but inducing somebody else...and helping him to kill somebody......" Am I culprit or not ?

Chardi Kala.....
 

Archived_Member_19

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Jun 7, 2006
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<<First of all , be clear that Baani Guru Guru Hai Baani........ either its written on a piece of paper, either its Nitnem Pothi....its respectful... be clear at this point...we are not idol worshipper.... there are many cases that people burned the Swaroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji....its doesn't mean that our Guru is no more.... so clear up you mind of this.... Sangat is a roop of Guru, Panj Pyare is roop of Guru... Reciting Baani from Laptop is as respectul as you are reciting sitting at Tabya, Beed...and reciting from Guru Swaroop.... but it doen't mean that I will start bowing to Laptop.... you have to understand...you can bow to baani in the laptop....that you have think what are you doing ...and what you want to do... its like...bowing to Gurdwara while travelling....because our Guru is there...Sangat is there....its a place where everybody comes and recite baani...that's why its respectful.... you have to clear up first..what you are thinking at that moment.....

Beed or Tabya is not Guru.... you are such a senior member at SPN and asking such a questions...its fine... a doubt is doubt....

we should not be of double standard... be one...whatever you are inside..it should be outside...>>

adkhalsa ji

now we both are on the same wavelength.

<"I am not killing somebody...but inducing somebody else...and helping him to kill somebody......" Am I culprit or not ?>

this is a very philospophical question.

what do you think Guru ji say about this?
 
Jan 8, 2009
59
48
Namjap Ji
Thank you for posting the video,but unfortunately my hindi is very weak. Would you or anyone else be able to translate the meaning please.::cool::
 

Archived_Member_19

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he raamachandra keh gaye siyaase
aaisa kaljuga aayega
hansa chugega daana dunka
kauvva moti khaayega

Ram made a prophecy to Sita
One day such and Era of Kalyug shall pass
Swans would eats grains
and crows shall enjoy pearls

siyaane puchhaa, kalajugamein dharam karamko koi nahi maanegaa?
to prabhu bole:
dharam bhi hoga, karam bhi hoga
parantu sharam nahi hogi
baata baata par maata pitaako
ladka aankh dikhaayega

Sita asked Ram - Will anyone follow the Dharma in kaljug
Lord Ram replied:
there will be Dharma and Karma too
but people will not have shame on their actions
A son would stare down(admonish) his elderly parents over trifles


raaja aur praja dono inmein
hogi nisadin kheenchaataani
kadam kadam par karenge dono
apni apni mann maani
jiske haath mein hogi laathi
bhainsa vahi le jaayega

Ruler and the public will clash with each other on all matters
Both will ride their own ponies in different directions
and the one holding the stick shall own the cow(buffalo)

suno siya kaljugmein kaala
dhan aur kaale mann honge
chora uchakke nagar setha aur
prabhu bhakta nirdhan honge
jo hoga lobhi aur bhogi
vo jogi kehlaayega

Listen o Sita, I kaljug
People will have black minds and black money
Thieves will be leaders and pious ones will be penniless
One who is steeped in materialistic enjoyment will be revered as the Yogi

mandir soona soona hoga
bhari rahengi madhushaala
pitaake sang sang bhari sabhaamein
naachegi gharki baala
kaisa kanyaadaan bidaahi
kanyaaka dhan khaayega (dowry)

Temples will bear forlorn looks and will be empty
Pubs and clubs will always be full
Daughters will dance in their fathers(of father's age) without shame in full public
Instead of giving daughter's hand to a respectable family
fathers will sell their daughters for money

moorakh ki preet buri
jue ki jeeta buri
bure sang baitha baitha
bhaage hi bhaage
kaajal ki kothari
mein kaise hi jatana karo
kaajal ka daag bhaai
laage hi laage

Friendship of fools is bad
Money earned in gambling is bad
As much as you run away, if you are in a chimney(furnace)
you will get the black marks on you

kitna jati ho koi
kitna sati ho koi
kaamani ke sang
kaam jaage hi jaage
suno kahe gopeeraama
jiska hai raamadhaama
uska to phanda gale laage hi laage

As much truthful and righteous one might be
one will get tempted by a temptress
one who is the true believer, in kaljug he will get the noose around his neck
 
Jan 8, 2009
59
48
In one line "Ram said to Sita, Kalyug will be a deleted up era". Not in those words obviously but you get the point.
I agree with that statement. Apparently Kalyug hasn't even matured yet. The unimaginable is yet to come.:shutup:

"Rabb Raakha"
 

Mai Harinder Kaur

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adskhalsa ji,
I will pick up on what you say here:

5. making note of the suit the other lady was wearing I agree with this because something different attracts attention....now a days I realize that ladies are not wearing proper dress...I feel ashamed when they wear low neck suits... tight jeans, short t-shirts....they are equally contributing the factor...what they want to show...their body ?....or want to seduce people at Gurdwara ? or they are trying to test the goodness of Sangat by showing their body ?.... they should be conscious....Guru is not attracted by such things...but they piling up their wrong deeds buy doing such things.....

I must be honest, why add hypocrisy to my other sins, eh? When I notice another woman's clothing at gurudwara, I am usually a bit envious of the beautiful embroidery on her suit or the silkiness of it or some such. I guess I have gotten so accustomed to the indecent dress of girls these days that it just doesn't register. Truthfully, I would rather see these girls at gurudwara than out running the streets. Who knows? They may learn something.


couple of day back I was watching news on NDTV...there is a case...a guy got a girl of age of around 25-28 yrs....girl is saying that she got married...and his husband and his father-in-law, who also raped her, saying that they bought her for Rs.30,000. Husband is not keshdhari...but his father is Keshdhari...age of around 65-70...a old guy....with full beard....Its so sick....a guy with Sabat Swaroop...is doing such things....hasn't he thought of Guru Ji...in his swaroop....before doing such things....

I am thinking that such people should also be punished my Sikhs at Gurdwara..lets sangat decide what should be done with such guys...I thought we should cut his hairs and beard....because this is the insult of whole Sikhism....at Manu's time..this was the rule...well this is what I thought...I may be wrong............

Comments are welcome....
As for the dirty old man - I would not be in favour of forcibly cutting any Sikh's kesh, whatever he has done. I may be wrong, but I just couldn't see it done. I suppose the Panj Piyare could insist he be deturbaned and wear only a patka, something like that. I may be completely wrong here; I am unaware of the relevant maryada.

The old man is a criminal and ought to be turned over to the civil authorities for full and severe prosecution.

And a hearty chard kala to you, as well! :ice:

Mai, SICL
 

Archived_Member5

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This story is absurd, if the Gianni was so overcome as to crave titillation by the watching of pornography why would he in a macabre sense watch it on his mobile whilst seated afore the SGGs in a Gurdwara. This is obviously a set up to embarrass Gianni’s and Good men alike. The porn industry is a multibillion dollar industry and is so by infusing a demand for its forbidden produce by many devious means and devices. Good men, young children being lured into watching porn is a common phenomenon. The porn industry is no longer censured or the film industry in general. Making porn a kind of illicit, clandestine act glamorises it. If gyrating flesh were considered good for the soul how emancipated and idyllic would western nations and now eastern be in the partaking of this free and copious leisure activity, we look to find it is not.

The mind is conditioned to be amused by socially preconditioned forms of excitement namely pornography. The best course of action is to thoroughly neutralise its ability to do so by releasing it from the taboo shelf. Watching porn releases endorphin like chemicals from the brain. The brain is then programmed to correlate excitement and arousal with porn, than say, reciting mool mantra and gaining spiritual bliss and peace thereby. It may sound extreme but the same positive intoxicating elixir emitted by the brain by devout prayer is the same released in watching porn. Once this learning is taught, proven and believed the clandestine and glamorised nature of porn is diminished and poor Gianni’s no longer need to suffer the indignity of falling victims to such deceptions.

Life is bizarre. I suspect most have, if only out of curiosity ventured into the realms of porn, it is created in a manner as to be addictive, ensuring a passive audience regularly tuning in. It is preferable to cure perversity through understanding than use it as some sort of tarnishing the name of the led astray of momentarily lapsed in good judgment. It was sad by a Gianni Ji, when people are in a Temple, no one begs for an encore of the sermon, yet when they are on the dance floor they shout, encore and one more collectively. Charismatic Preachers are regularly castigated as being so than lauded for their ability to bring love of Waheguru’s truth to the people. Following the media defamation of Priests and vicars in abuse cases, I think Sikhs should protect our vulnerable clergy from similar onslaughts given that when the sanctity of religious men is cast into doubt, it leave not much to regard or adore other than media fodder. Fleshly focus hinders progress of the spiritual path to liberation. – food for thought and undoubtedly Kalyug...

Brahm{Sant} Giani ki nindiak maaha paapi..to paraphrase condemnation of Giannis by such devious means...
 

spnadmin

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Jun 17, 2004
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Mai ji

I think that my reactions are similar to your. Some thoughts... If I leave my car keys in my car and the car is stolen, I am guilty of negligence. I am not guilty of car theft. The thief always has the opportunity from the moment of temptation to steal to the moment of the theft itself to say NO, to make a decision to reject doing the criminal act. Same thing with girls/women who dress a certain way. The rapist makes the decision to rape. The girl may have shown poor judgment but she did not "invite" rape.

In most countries today a woman's dress is not even permitted to be evidence in a court trial of a rape or sexual battery casee.

Now in Muslim countries a woman's attire is factored into the guilt of a rapist, and the woman is considered party to the crime of having her body violated. As soon as we look at victims and say, but if you had done X or had not done Y, this bad thing would not have happened -- then there is no such thing as morality at all. Morality is accepting responsibility for what we do, and we cannot accept it for someone else. If we take responsibility for the immoral acts of a thief or a rapist, then they have no reason or less reason to take their choices seriously and to heart.

As for cutting a beard or taking away dastar as a punishment -- none of this is in SRM. People should actually read the maryada from time to time and get familiar with it. Also pick the one they will follow. SRM is only one of several of the current maryadas and has a minimalist approach. The others include many more rules and prohibitions.
 
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