Hinduism Four Yugs - Taken From Hinduism?

[Janpreet]

WJKK WJKF

I posted this topic earlier also, nobody replied but infact thread was deleted.... not only dat my account was deleted! No interaction by any senior member or mods or admin before their action.

I am 24 Years old Sikh, I don't believe in fake names, profiles or avtars. I am reader of this site since ages but decided to join recently when one of my muslim friend asked me something about sikhism, which I wasnt sure.

I came here to look for answers but unfortunately I received very rude behaviour. Before deleting my thread and account atleast I should be have been warned or explained why I cant ask question to others senior members about sikhism on this site.

Anyways, what ever happened, Happened. I would really appreciate if someone can help me.

Me and my friend(muslim) were sharing knowledge about our religions and I explained him Sikhi believes that only Naam Simran can lead you to liberation in this Kali Yug.

It all started from there.

his question was:-

Hindus aslo believe in Yugs, four yugs. Did Sikhism borrow this concept from Hinduism?

Can someone please throw light on this?

I have no intension of having an argument with anyone on this, only reason why I asked this is because I do wanna know for myself. Please don't delete this thread or my account. and please reply to my question


Bhul Chukk Di Kheema





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[qpeter]

cool

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Janpreet ji,

I do not believe anybody is trying to delete ones thread. The forum is being updated as we speak. Your thread was on the new system. This is the older system and that is why it does not appear here. I too have sufferred the same.

Me and my friend(muslim) were sharing knowledge about our religions and I explained him Sikhi believes that only Naam Simran can lead you to liberation in this Kali Yug.

You are absolutely right. In this Kali Yug, Naam Simran is the simplest and most effective method to achieve liberation.

Hindus also believe in Yugs, four yugs. Did Sikhism borrow this concept from Hinduism?

Just because Hinduism discovered this reality does not make it their posession. 4 Yuga is a reality. What is the truth remains the truth.

I hope this answers your query.

 

[Janpreet]

Thanks musafir ji....

As you were posting reply to my thread, I was searching on internet and I came accross following article :-

According to Hindu mythology clever pandit/Brahmin in Balmiki Ramayan and puranas has divided time into 4 ages or yug.

Satyug=1728000,tretayug=1296000,duaparyug=864000 and kalyug=432000.The sum total of all these jugs comes out to be 4320000. And it is believed that this cycle of yugs is continuous and peoples age,behaviour, and even height!!!! Keeps on changing in these yugs.(Gurmat Martand part1, p287, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha)

Now the point is who calculated these years. If they have to be calculated then someone has to live throughout all these years to count them and that’s not possible. If you ask some sant baba this question, he will say brahmgyani can tell everything and will take us towards Brahmanism from which Guru saab wanted us to have no relation. A very well known Sant even have face to face talk with Kalyug!!! Somebody ask them if kalyug is time then how can it talk, because if it can talk then it has to have tongue and if it has tongue then it means it will have whole body as you can not have tongue by itself. But we listen ,Now neither Santji gave any Gurmat, nor we understood anything aakho Satnam shri waheguru!!!


But this concept of Kalyug and satyug is not accepted in Gurmat.As per Gurmat Kalyug and Satyug are right here in our life and depends on our actions and deeds. If we do good deeds it is satyug and if we do bad deeds it is kalyug.

Let us see what Guru saab says about kalyug and satyug:

“kal kati raje kasai dharma pankh kar uddarya
Kood amawas sach chandrama deese nahi keh chadya
Hau bhal vikhuni hoyi aadheer raah na koi
Vich haume kar dukh royi kaho nanak kin bidh gat hoyi”(SGGS,p145)



ਕਲਿ ਕਾਤੀ ਰਾਜੇ ਕਾਸਾਈ, ਧਰਮੁ ਪੰਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਡਰਿਆ ॥ ਕੂੜੁ ਅਮਾਵਸ ਸਚੁ ਚੰਦ੍ਰਮਾ, ਦੀਸੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਹ ਚੜਿਆ ॥ ਹਉ ਭਾਲਿ ਵਿਕੁੰਨੀ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਆਧੇਰੈ ਰਾਹੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਵਿਚਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਰੋਈ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਨਿ ਬਿਧਿ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥1॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 145}


Prof sahib Singh : kal: kalyugi sbhaw(behaviour)
The dark-age(kalyugi behaviour) is the scalpel, the kings are the butchers and righteousness has taken wings and flown. In this no-moon night of false-hood, the moon of truth is not seen to rise anywhere.In this darkness of haume this world is crying how to get rid of this.

“Narad nache kal ka bhau jat sat keh raakhe pau
Nanak naam vitoh kurban andi duniya sahib jaan
Gur paso phir chela khayi taam preet vase ghar aayi
Je so varya jeewan khan khasam pachane so din parwaan
Darsan dekhiye daya na hoyi laye ditte vin rahe naa koi
Raja nyay kare hath hoyi kahe khudai naa mane koi”(SGGS,p349)



ਨਾਰਦੁ ਨਾਚੈ ਕਲਿ ਕਾ ਭਾਉ ॥ ਜਤੀ ਸਤੀ ਕਹ ਰਾਖਹਿ ਪਾਉ ॥1॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਟਹੁ ਕੁਰਬਾਣੁ ॥ ਅੰਧੀ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥1॥ਰਹਾਉ॥ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਸਹੁ ਫਿਰਿ ਚੇਲਾ ਖਾਇ ॥ ਤਾਮਿ ਪਰੀਤਿ ਵਸੈ ਘਰਿ ਆਇ ॥ ਜੇ ਸਉ ਵਰ੍ਹਿਆ ਜੀਵਣ ਖਾਣੁ ॥ ਖਸਮ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਸੋ ਦਿਨੁ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥2॥ ਦਰਸਨਿ ਦੇਖਿਐ ਦਇਆ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਲਏ ਦਿਤੇ ਵਿਣੁ ਰਹੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਰਾਜਾ ਨਿਆਉ ਕਰੇ ਹਥਿ ਹੋਇ॥ ਕਹੈ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 349}


Prof sahib singh: Narad : man, Kal : Kalyug
Desire of mankinds are like ghungroos and the attachment to this world is dholki and this man is dancing without lords name .This is what is Kalyug.Disciple is serving guru for his selfishness,If you live for 100 years and remembered lord only on one day that is the day that is parwaa.mankind is not living in harmony,giving and taking bribes is going on,King does justice when he gets some bribe. This behaviour is Kalyug.

“kal kalaavali maya mad meetha man matwala peevat rahe Aape roop kare buh bhaanti nanak bapuda ev kahe”(SGGS,p350)



ਕਲਿ ਕਲਵਾਲੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਦੁ ਮੀਠਾ ਮਨੁ ਮਤਵਾਲਾ ਪੀਵਤੁ ਰਹੈ ॥ ਆਪੇ ਰੂਪ ਕਰੇ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਂਤੀਂ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਏਵ ਕਹੈ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 350}


Prof Sahib Singh: kal: Kaljugi behaviour, kalaavali: kalalan(sharab vechan vali) ,mad:sharab, bapuda:vichara
The way a kalalan is selling wine and people drink and get intoxicated, the same way is this kalyugi behaviour under the influence of which maya looks sweet and people are intoxicated.Lord is making this different behaviours vichara Nanak can only say this.

“soi chand chade se tare soi deenyar tapt rahe
Sa dharti so pawan jhulare jug jiye khele thav kaise
Jeevan talab nivar
Howe parwana kare dhyana kal lakhan vichar
Kite des naa aaya suniye teerath paas na baitha
Data daan kare te naahi mahal ussar na baitha
Je ko sat kare so chhije tap ar tap na hoyi
Je ko nau laye badnawi kal ke lakhan ehi”(SGGS, mahalla 1,p902)



ਸੋਈ ਚੰਦੁ ਚੜਹਿ ਸੇ ਤਾਰੇ ਸੋਈ ਦਿਨੀਅਰੁ ਤਪਤ ਰਹੈ ॥ ਸਾ ਧਰਤੀ ਸੋ ਪਉਣੁ ਝੁਲਾਰੇ ਜੁਗ ਜੀਅ ਖੇਲੇ ਥਾਵ ਕੈਸੇ ॥1॥ ਜੀਵਨ ਤਲਬ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ॥ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਧਿਙਾਣਾ ਕਲਿ ਲਖਣ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕਿਤੈ ਦੇਸਿ ਨ ਆਇਆ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਤੀਰਥ ਪਾਸਿ ਨ ਬੈਠਾ ॥ ਦਾਤਾ ਦਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਤਹ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਹਲ ਉਸਾਰਿ ਨ ਬੈਠਾ ॥2॥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਸਤੁ ਕਰੇ ਸੋ ਛੀਜੈ ਤਪ ਘਰਿ ਤਪੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ਲਏ ਬਦਨਾਵੀ ਕਲਿ ਕੇ ਲਖਣ ਏਈ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 902}


Give up your selfishness,your haume this is kalyug. This kalyug is within your heart and not in any span of time. In all these yugs there is same moon,stars,sun,earth and same air.No one has ever heard that kalyug lives in some specified country,any sacred place.It is not sitting where people donates,nor it lives in any palace.If someone takes lords name people looks down on him, if someone does meditation but his vices are not in control,these bad deeds vices not in control these are the characterstics of Kalyug.
So Satyug, Kalyug are right here. It depends on our deeds and actions.Guru Saab strongly condemned this theory of some time span as kalyug and satyug.Even in satyug, tretayug and duaparyug they have their stories that shows bad character , so how is that Satyug.

"Ab Kaloo aiyo re ikk Naam Bovho Bovho Aan rutt naahi naahi, matt bharam bhoolo bhoolo gur mile har paye jis mastak hai lekha man rutt naam re gun kahe nanak har hare har hare"(SGGS,p1185)



ਅਬ ਕਲੂ ਆਇਓ ਰੇ ॥ ਇਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਬੋਵਹੁ ਬੋਵਹੁ ॥ ਅਨ ਰੂਤਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ ਮਤੁ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੂਲਹੁ ਭੂਲਹੁ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਹੈ ਲੇਖਾ ॥ ਮਨ ਰੁਤਿ ਨਾਮ ਰੇ ॥ ਗੁਨ ਕਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਹਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਹਰੇ ॥2॥18॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1185}


Prof Sahib Singh: ab : hun ,manukha jiwan milan te ;kaloo: kaal,sama,naam bijan da sama; aan rutt nahi manukha jiwan taun naam bijan da) hor koi sama nahi ; matt; matan;bharam: maya di bhatakna wich paike
you have got this manukha janam so you have got the time to sow the seed of naam.without human birth you can not sow the seed of naam.beware not to go on other path under the influence of maya.but you can get har naam through guru.hey nanak! only those take the naam of hari who has it in their lekh.
before this in rahao of this shabad, guru saab is telling to give up haume and recite lords name.
before this shabad and after rahao, compares this human birth to basant rutt.

"dekh phul phul phoole aham tyage tyage
charan kamal paage tum miloh prabhu subhage
har chet man mere" (rahao)
sagahn baas koole ik rahe sook kathule
basant rutt aayi parfulta rahe"



ਦੇਖੁ ਫੂਲ ਫੂਲ ਫੂਲੇ ॥ ਅਹੰ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਤਿਆਗੇ ॥ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲ ਪਾਗੇ ॥ ਤੁਮ ਮਿਲਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਭਾਗੇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਚੇਤਿ ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ਸਘਨ ਬਾਸੁ ਕੂਲੇ ॥ ਇਕਿ ਰਹੇ ਸੂਕਿ ਕਠੂਲੇ ॥ ਬਸੰਤ ਰੁਤਿ ਆਈ ॥ ਪਰਫੂਲਤਾ ਰਹੇ ॥1॥


Prof Sahib singh: phul phul phoole: phul hi phul khide hoye han,khidao hi khidao hai ; sagahn : saghni chaan wale ;baas: sugandhi ;koole:naram,komal; kathule: kaath warge karde (suke)
Give up your haume and look within where there are flowers everywhere(aatmak khidao).hey mann! keep yourself attached to lords feet and keep on reciting his name. when basant comes then trees get soft,scented and gives lot of shelter but, there are certain trees that remains dry like wood.In the same way hey mann! even though you have got this human birth (comparing to sawan rutt) but only those who take lords name can always be khide hoye.

so now is the time,you have got human birth ab kaloo aayo re--------

ਕਲਿਜੁਗੁ ਉਧਾਰਿਆ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ॥ ਮਲ ਮੂਤ ਮੂੜ ਜਿ ਮੁਘਦ ਹੋਤੇ ਸਭਿ ਲਗੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਸੇਵ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥


Guru Sahib teaches us that those persons, who describe the so called Kalyug as a dark-age, in reality this age is very good period of life because the persons, who were considered as fools and bad people are now engaged in the service of True Lord and they have started living within the Command of the Almighty God. (Pause – 1)

ਤੂ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਭ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਧਰਤਾ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਰਾਜਾ ਬਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਹੋਆ ਸਭ ਪਈ ਪੈਰੀ ਆਇ ॥ 2 ॥


O God! You are the Creator of the Universe, You sustain the entire Creation and You also pervade everywhere. By the Guru’s Divine teachings when all persons have sought the support of the Supreme True Entity, Akaal Purkh was also wonderstruck that all of them have attained emancipation. It would thus indicate that no age is good or bad provided we remain attuned with God. (2)

ਸਤਜੁਗੁ ਤ੍ਰੇਤਾ ਦੁਆਪਰੁ ਭਣੀਐ ਕਲਿਜੁਗੁ ਊਤਮੋ ਜੁਗਾ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਅਹਿ ਕਰੁ ਕਰੇ ਸੁ ਅਹਿ ਕਰੁ ਪਾਏ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਪਕੜੀਐ ਕਿਸੈ ਥਾਇ ॥ 3 ॥


O Brothers! Those persons, who are of the view that the ages of Satyug (Golden age), Treta (Silver age) and Doapar (Bronze age) were said to be much better but they failed to understand that in reality the Kalyug (Iron age) is the best of all because in this age the person gets the reward of his labour immediately. Contrary to the old thinking or rituals, now no other person has to pay for the sins of others. As you sow, so shall you reap in this life. (3)

ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਸੋਈ ਕਰਹਿ ਜਿ ਭਗਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਜਾਚਹਿ ਏਹੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਬਿਰਦੁ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਜੋੜਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਨੁ ਮਾਗੈ ਅਪਣਿਆ ਸੰਤਾ ਦੇਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਸੁ ॥4॥5॥140॥


O True Lord! Irrespective of any age or region, Yours devotees perform those activities only whatever pleases You because they have sought Your refuge. Through his Fifth Divine Light, Guru Nanak Sahib prays to the Almighty God so that Guru-oriented persons continue to live within Your Command so that they are successful to attain emancipation. (GGS – Page 406: 140)
Our well known Kirtaniya and Sant tells these stories and if someone says against them, then people don’t try to read Gurbani and understand themselves rather say tere naam nal sant nahi lagya .

" Akli Sahib saviea akli paiea mann.Akli parr ke bujhiaey akli keecheay dann."(SGGS,p1245)



ਅਕਲੀ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸੇਵੀਐ ਅਕਲੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਮਾਨੁ ॥ ਅਕਲੀ ਪੜੑਿ ਕੈ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਅਕਲੀ ਕੀਚੈ ਦਾਨੁ ॥(ਪੰਨਾ 1245)


Wisdom is that we read and understand Gurbani.



:-http://singhsabhacanada.com/articles.php?Id=32


I am more confused thn before

 

[simpy]

Respected janpreet Ji,

first of all, sorry for the confusion. SPN is having some issues regarding the new layout(supposidily you signed in into that previously)

and most welcome once again.

there is nothing wrong in questioning about four yugas. to understand these kind of issues(the ones beyond normal human mind's conception) we have to first develop total sato gun mental setup. until then these mysteries will keep confusing.

from sato gun means totally devoid of i-ness, selfishness... All daya, dharam(selfless duty), sat(recognition of truth), santokh(contentment)...... and once you develop these(read first two pauris of Siri Japji Sahib) things start to fall into its right place.... as sato guna cannot stay by themselves they take us to HIS DWAAR.


untill then many things keep on confusing. the more you will try to ask others, more confusing it will get, as everybody will feed you their understanding-nothing else. don't let yourself confused, start from the very first panna of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. read it, understand it, then start living the truth truthfully. then with God's/Guru's grace a day will come these things will be revealed to you by the HigherSelf from within, you wouldn't have to ask anybody anymore....

all things written in Gurbani is the eternal truth. just have to start living the truth from the begining-NO SHORTCUTS.......

hopefuly didn't confuse you anymore.

forgive me please

 

[spnadmin]

Janpreet ji,

An age of darkness? All we have to do is open the newspaper and we know. All we have that can lift us from this is Naam. All we can do is seek to know Naam.

Respectfully

 

[S|kH]

And this is exactly what i mean, with all the evidence we throw at them that these 4 "yugs" aren't real, and that humanity will progress a new, and different way, they still won't believe.

There's a quote up there that states, "even the height, body, portions are all identified in these yugs!"

Seriously? Come on now... we are all getting fatter, and slightly taller than our parents. We call this genes, science...not "yugs"

Anyways, read my other topic.

 

[S|kH]

Respected janpreet Ji,

first of all, sorry for the confusion. SPN is having some issues regarding the new layout(supposidily you signed in into that previously)

and most welcome once again.

there is nothing wrong in questioning about four yugas. to understand these kind of issues(the ones beyond normal human mind's conception) we have to first develop total sato gun mental setup. until then these mysteries will keep confusing.

I like this post, so I'm going to reply to it..Only because I feel its something my mother says to me when I question her.

The answer you give above, Ms. Cheema, is simply not sufficient. This is just a mechanism to keep the questioners mildly happy for the time being..."We need to first develop this, you are not of the right age, later in life you will understand" The same type of answers come from my mom when I ask her, "You will understand later when you experience different things" That is not sufficient at all. For, if God controls things, then tell him to give me the experience he so kindly gives others that allows them to understand something "beyond the normal humans minds" But the key to this element is, this never happens. This is just a "go-around" at answering the question instead of simply claiming that "We do not know, no one knows".."hell, u may try it and nothing ever happens"

from sato gun means totally devoid of i-ness, selfishness... All daya, dharam(selfless duty), sat(recognition of truth), santokh(contentment)...... and once you develop these(read first two pauris of Siri Japji Sahib) things start to fall into its right place.... as sato guna cannot stay by themselves they take us to HIS DWAAR.

Same deal, if I tell you I have totally devoided myself of selfishness, and that yet, I have not come across the answer to the original question, you will never believe me. You will tell me I haven't devoided selfishness completely, or I need to go practice and wait more. "There is the right time for everything"

untill then many things keep on confusing. the more you will try to ask others, more confusing it will get, as everybody will feed you their understanding-nothing else. don't let yourself confused, start from the very first panna of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. read it, understand it, then start living the truth truthfully. then with God's/Guru's grace a day will come these things will be revealed to you by the HigherSelf from within, you wouldn't have to ask anybody anymore....

all things written in Gurbani is the eternal truth. just have to start living the truth from the begining-NO SHORTCUTS.......

hopefuly didn't confuse you anymore.

forgive me please

Same stuff here, "follow this, as no one can explain, and then you will see the light!"

But, lets say I've went through there, and seen nothing, you will never believe me. I ask you how you've obtained the answer, the light, and you claim these artificial steps, and tell me I must follow everything and each step takes time.

Seems like another "go-around" answer to me.

 

[simpy]

Respected S|kH ji,

certainly i am not your mom so will not provide a soft cushion.

i have read a lot written by you.

allover is humongo I ruling over you.

and you are telling me that -

But, lets say I've went through there, and seen nothing, you will never believe me. I ask you how you've obtained the answer, the light, and you claim these artificial steps, and tell me I must follow everything and each step takes time.

it does not take time.
there is no age limit.
there is no religious restriction.
ALL IS THIS I
become selfless, which anybody can see is far far away from you.....
you don't need to write it or prove it, it is shining bright through your posts.

the size of this path is compared to the size even smaller than the thickness of a strand of hair, my son, not simple abc, that all can walk over.....

forgive me please

 

[S|kH]

Respected S|kH ji,

certainly i am not your mom so will not provide a soft cushion.

i have read a lot written by you.

allover is humongo I ruling over you.

and you are telling me that -

By mom i didnt mean soft cushion. I met those type of answers you recieve when they just wish to postpone an inevitable question. Starts when your a toddler and you ask your mom how babies are born. Then as you get older you question your moms traditions or your communities practices, and you get the same "go-around". Now its on some level of "first you must submit to God, then you will see".

I also have no clue what you mean by "allover is humongo I ruling over you. and you are telling me that".

it does not take time.
there is no age limit.
there is no religious restriction.
ALL IS THIS I-
become selfless, which anybody can see is far far away from you.....
you don't need to write it or prove it, it is shining bright through your posts.

the size of this path is compared to the size even smaller than the thickness of a strand of hair, my son, not simple abc, that all can walk over.....

forgive me please

Haha, so your telling me I'm selfish and not self-less. And if I were to tell you that during the entire break I've had from this website, I've been completely selfless, you still wouldnt believe. It's "far far far away" from after-all.

I must just be a "normal" human being whose "mind can not comprehend such matters"

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

certainly i am not your mom so will not provide a soft cushion.

I laughed. It totally distracted me from the thread too.

I also have no clue what you mean by "allover is humongo I ruling over you. and you are telling me that".

I think she meant to say humongous "I" as in huge egotism, with "humongo." Heh, Punjablish! Everyone is selfish, don't take it personal. You were correcting her, now she's correcting you. It's karma. (I was pretty sure she does sound like your mom. And that made me laugh too.)

Hinduism isn't a false religion like Islamics teach. It has a lot of truth. But Guruji corrected and clarified some things about it. Even the Buddhists believe in the four Yugs. If you study physics you will see that definitely there are cycles.

Starts when your a toddler and you ask your mom how babies are born.

I don't know why this all just struck me as funny. I guess sometimes the go-round is the best answer.

I must just be a "normal" human being whose "mind can not comprehend such matters"

No human mind or brain can conceive such profound things as the nirgun aspect of Waheguru or even the complexities of life, transmigration, karma. In physics, the deepest mysteries of physical reality can only be grasped by the symbolic equations of complex mathematics. It totally defies the logic of 3 dimensional experience. So why are you asking questions even a bramgyani can't answer. Your poor mom!

with all the evidence we throw at them that these 4 "yugs" aren't real, and that humanity will progress a new, and different way, they still won't believe.
There's a quote up there that states, "even the height, body, portions are all identified in these yugs!"
Seriously? Come on now... we are all getting fatter, and slightly taller than our parents. We call this genes, science...not "yugs"

Silliness! I'm getting moti from eating roti and butter! You have evidence there aren't 4 yugs>? Humanity is progressing along the dictates of the great wisdom of western science? Yes, like gene splicing new breeds of beings crossing fish with plants using human embryos I imagine. It's so kaliyug that its bigger than a neon sign! Just wait till their genetically engineered food kills off all the pollinating insects like bees and creates world famine. Have you ever read the vedas talking about vimanas? Isn't it interesting that such ancient writings accurately describe UFOs? As if there was an earlier more advanced age. Science as an institution is very dogmatic. It's believers suppress facts contrary to accepted scientific opinions. That's what people refer to as the religion of scientism. Ignoring odd things that don't fit into the accepted schema does not make the accepted schema

Vimanas, Indian Flying Machines...
YouTube - ALIEN HISTORY UFO ART

 

[spnadmin]

Respected all,

Actually, "humongo" is a real word. It means "humans go on and on about the ability of logic and reason to conquer all." Thus HUM-ON-GO. Surinder ji has it right as usual.

Have patience with me

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Actually, "humongo" is a real word. It means "humans go on and on about the ability of logic and reason to conquer all." Thus HUM-ON-GO. Surinder ji has it right as usual.

Hehe

 

[simpy]

I must just be a "normal" human being whose "mind can not comprehend such matters"

Respected S|kH Ji,

no Soul is limited to only human experience-it is the "I-ness" that keeps one from experiencing the trueSelf.

forgive me please

 

[Archived_member7]

Satsriakaal ji Saadh Sangat

I have been going through this posting ..i really wonder why is the concept of Jug connecting to some ' ism ' ...

Let me clear somethings here...' Hindu ' is no ism ..as the concept of it in the english vocabulary...its a geographical term....for people frm HIndustan...

No 2 ' hindus ' will have identical form of worship ..or not even the same Avatar...so where does hindu come as a religion ???

There can be classification of vedic and non vedic....well i have read that the Vedas too have the same concept of Ik Onkaar and have no place for idol worship...

All religions/panths of Hindustani Origin will have the same concept of Jug, rebirth etc...including Naam simran..

The Jains too have the concept they call it ' Aara ' instead of JUg....

So instead of getting into this messy concept of hating something called hindu ...lets concentrate on Sikhi.... and lets folow the principles ...as Guru Maharaj has given us ..

Raaj karega khalsa

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Let me clear somethings here...' Hindu ' is no ism ..as the concept of it in the english vocabulary...its a geographical term....for people frm HIndustan...So instead of getting into this messy concept of hating something called hindu ...lets concentrate on Sikhi

Who is a Hindu: According to the Parishad, Hindus are all those who

believe, practice, or respect​

the spiritual and religious principles and practices having roots in Bharat. Thus Hindu includes Jains, Baudhhas, Sikhs and people of many different sects within the Hindu ethos.

http://www.vhp-america.org/whatvhpa/whoisahindu.htm

A Hindu (Devanagari: हिन्दु),as per modern definition, is an adherent of the philosophies and scriptures of Hinduism, the religious, philosophical and cultural system that originated in the Indian subcontinent... Hinduism is believed to be the oldest living religious tradition in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu

No one said anything that was "hating Hindu." Your definition sounds like radically self-inclusive Hindutva which is based on nazism. Blut und Boden, "Blood and Soil." The purpose of this political doctrine was to militarize the national borders, and begin waging war to incorporate neighboring areas. Nazism made blood enemies with a political characterization of "the other." Someone who was not a part of the national body. Someone who was blamed for every social ill. Someone who was ridiculed as inferior in every way. Consider now, when you abide solely by racial and nationalistic descriptions how far you move away from spirituality. Remember the lessons of the past. There is a reason why nazism is abhorred as a political strategy today. Nationalism seems good. It can mobilize people. But it is exclusionary and prejudicial. As a political philosophy, it unites by creating someone to blame and hate. The hated "others" of Hindutva are Abrahamic religions, namely Muslims. What spirituality in the world uses slime to bind together it's unity? That's the mud of politics, not religion. Ultimately hatred of anyone, is self-hatred.

VHP extremists from India - Google Video
YouTube - The Making of a Muslim Terrorist
YouTube - Hitler's Religion

Nazi Propaganda: EIN RASSE! EIN REICH! EIN FUEHRER!
(One Race!, one Nation!, one Leader!)
Hindutva Propaganda: HINDU! HINDI! HINDUSTAN!
(One Religion! One Language! One Nation!)

The evil people want our women! They are stealing our nation's wealth and depriving the
rightful owners! We have to drive them out, destroy their temples and build our own!

The "other" people are not like us! They are primitive, treacherous, traitors!

We must make them stand out so no one is contaminated by them.

We must mock them as without value, even when they pray for their dead.

All our people support the drive of the "other" out of our national borders!

We will remove them from our lands!

Forever!

Race and geography are physical concepts. Vedanta is spiritual. These diverse teachings transcend time and space. Certainly they transcend body. Do you believe in reincarnation? Let me ask, have you always been a Human? Have you always been a male? Have you always lived in the geography of Hindustan? You see, every atma belongs to Waheguru. And every truly spiritual teaching focuses on something beyond the blindnesses of this world.

 

[Janpreet]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sangat Jio, I very much appreciate replies from all of you. From last couple of years, I started taking more interest in Sikhism and these yugs really confuses me.

As Cheema bhenji said, "We have to first develop total sato gun mental setup to understand these things". and I totally understand tht your mental level has to be at that level before you can understand complex things.a

For e.g. It will be hard for grade 3 kid to understand trigonometry but if you put your sincere effort, nothing is impossible.

Coming back to yugs. If Sikhism accept this concept of four yugs and we are in fourth and last yug. What will happen after the end of this yug? Is this something what Islam talk about "Judgement day"?

Sorry for being so ignorant. Anjaan bacha jaan ke kheema bhakshna Ji.


GurFateh!

So instead of getting into this messy concept of hating something called hindu ...lets concentrate on Sikhi.... and lets folow the principles ...as Guru Maharaj has given us ..

WJKK WJKF

Veer ji, I don't believe anyone is hating hindus here. If that was for me, I am sorry to give you that misapprehension. I just raised a question for myself knowledge. Nothing else was intended.


Fateh!

 

[spnadmin]

Rajkhalsa ji,

Your gentle scolding connected some dots for me. I am grateful because my comments lately have been a little silly. A way to blow off some steam, but perhaps not completely appropriate in this forum. At the same time, I don't see anti-Hindu sentiments in this particular thread.

You are right, there is no Hinduism; and Hindu belief has taken many different paths, including a monotheistic path in some Hindu sects. And yes, we have gotten off the topic.

What is the Sikh understanding of the 4 yugs. Are we to take this literally, as a scientific fact? Was this the best scientific understanding of the time? As has already been stated, the theory of 4 yugs today does not have scientific merit. So is the theory of 4 yugs about something else that is more spiritual in nature? Does it speak to episodes of moral and religious reality and could the theory be understood that way, without contradicting any basic value of Sikhi? I can see how each era or yug could represent cycles of understanding how we relate to God morally, spiritually and in our personal lives.

I hope this comment gets the discussion back on track.

 

[jasi]

God bless you. atleast you asked questions.first of all these are things one should not get involve but follow only the matter which means today. that is truth is highest vertu and higher than is truthful living. Nama is boat which will take you accross this lost society.

to get involve in the history which is passed away ,even today will be history tomarrow but Nam is always eternal and living every moment by moment .so do not use your time to net picking and come to the ground to catch present . good luck.

jaspi

 

[spnadmin]

Jaspi and RajKhalsa,

Nit-picking is one more problem some of us take with us on the journey of life, because we are weak-- one more flaw-- and I hope that Satgur, whose heart is so big and compassionate, will help us with that.

Another problem that I wish could be solved is the problem of finding sources that can be trusted about the history and culture of northern India at the time of Guru Nanaak Dev. This thread and other threads as well touch on Hindu thought. It takes forever using Google to find things that could help me figure things out. Most of the reading that I would trust seems to be in India and is probably not written in English. There has to be good information here in US libraries but how does a person go about finding it. I have seen some information out in cyber-space on this and other issues, and no references. So how can you know if it can be trusted or not?

Respectfully