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Opinion Equality & Inequality

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by IJSingh, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh
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    Who gave the jathedar the authority to dispense hukumnama?
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2016 ---
    You said "you had to change your name"..
     
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  2. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Qatar
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    Hi Bhenji, I get where youre coming from. I wanted to take amrit at one point, but I had a strong hukam within me not to. I feel that Guruji walks with me every single day and am 100% certain that you can be pure without having taken it.

    Being amritshak is great and is a huge blessing if you understand and utilise the blessing, but the path can be walked without it as it was by bhagats before. The discipline should lead to internal purity- thats where real bhagti begins.

    The point i was trying to make above about Brown sikhs was that there is no real way of knowing who is actually a sikh or not, millions of people marry not serious about the Truth everyday.
     
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  3. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    Yes that's what I said. That anand karaj is not only amritdhari. But as an amritdhari, the only recognized way to be married is anand karaj. So someone who is not amritdhari but still follows Sikhi can be married by anand karaj, but if you are amritdhari, you can't choose to just do a court marriage for example.
     
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  4. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    To be honest I have such respect for SGGSJ and Sikhi that had I not been willing to place it the centre of my married life, I would have never done the lavans anyway. I don't know how someone could? It would be like as I said, taking amrit just for you know a weekend entertainment, and then Monday going back to life as usual drinking alcohol and eating halal meats and oh going for a haircut. It would be a big huge disrespect.

    I think, that ANYONE should seriously understand any religious ceremony they wish to undergo, and be dedicated and serious about following the commitment they are supposed to be making. Otherwise, it turns everything into a sham. Can you imagine if a bunch of people started doing the above scenario at amrit sanchars, how long before amrit sanchar no longer had any real meaning??
     
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  5. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Why would a person object to getting married at the Gurdwara after taking khandei de pahul to begin with?

    Or are you asking for permission for Amritdharis to get court marriage only?

    I am a bit confused actually.
     
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  6. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Harkiran ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    I agree with you that the prospective couples should learn the meaningfulness of Lavan. In fact I had suggested a mandatory course in every Gurdwara for this purpose in one of my threads here.
     
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  7. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    Trjwant Ji I was responding to a previous post where it was suggested that SRM says that only Amritdhari couples are allowed to be married by anand Karaj. I just pointed out that anyone following Sikh faith can be married by anand Karaj (as long as they are serious about the faith and understand what it is they are agreeing to) but in case of an Amritdhari that is the only acceptable method to be married because sexual relationship outside of marriage is not allowed and one is not considered married (as an Amritdhari Sikh) until they undergo anand Karaj. But Sikhs who are not Amritdhari are not bound to that.
     
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  8. sukhsingh

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    How would you ever know what litmus test would you suggest people undergo to test there faith?
     
  9. Original

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    ...oh, I'm no expert at suggesting research based study of evolutionary anthropology. But do indeed, read around the subject; try "egalitarian societies" by James Woodburn.
     
  10. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    Well someone openly stating they follow a different faith say Christian or Islam or Hinduism obviously is openly declaring they are not following the Sikh faith. That would be fairly easy. Rest, one would hope people born into the faith aren't making a mockery of it for show.
     
  11. sukhsingh

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    Thank you
     
  12. sukhsingh

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    But who and what measure could be used to determine for one to make such a strong accusation
     
  13. Harkiran Kaur

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    Obviously at some point there has to be some trust. For someone born into the faith, there is assumption that is their belief system. Now if people know they very obviously do unsikh like things openly or openly declare they are no longer following or serious about it makes it easier. But outside of that there is assumption that unless otherwise indicated, those born into a faith are followers of that faith.

    For converts it's a bit more complicated. Often people experiment with different religions until they find what suits them and / or it's just a temporary fad. If it's not something your family practice and you weren't born into and raised in that faith then before undergoing a serious commitment I can understand why they require at least some show on part of the convert that they are serious... hence the name change. It simply shows commitment. For those born into it, family is the support system.

    As for those who drink alcohol after their weddings, it's between Waheguru and them. What more can we do? What we can do is make some checks and balances to ensure it's not a mockery but some things are out of our hands. At least those who drink alcohol usually they are still following Sikhi and back at the gurdwara the next week again so it's not that they are not following Sikhi they always have chance to improve.

    But for a convert it's difficult because so many decide to follow a faith and then later decide it's not for them. So some show of sincerity is not a bad thing.

    But for those who OPENLY declare a religion that is not Sikhi, how can they undergo a religious ceremony which they do not believe in, and make commitments in front of our Guru which they never intend to keep? This is why outright interfaith is frowned upon. It's a disrespect to SGGSJ to have someone make commitment to follow Sikhi path and make SGGSJ centre of married life and then blatantly toss that out the window on the way to the reception.

    But notice I am NOT against interfaith marriage. Just interfaith anand karaj.
     
  14. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Qatar
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    Youre joking right..
     
  15. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Qatar
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    Humans wouldn't. The Gurus if they wanted to could have, but humans are flawed with the 5 thieves hence you get Sikhs beating each other up in the gurdwarra.
     
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  16. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    Are you disagreeing with Tejwant Ji? Do you think meaning of the lavaans is not important to know before going through anand karaj?
     
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  17. sukhsingh

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    The meaning of laava is important to try and understand before undertaking the ceremony, however that does not mean that there is a consensus on the meaning of lavaan. Maybe we should post a translation of the text and have a critical reading to illuminate the differing perspectives?
     
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  18. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Qatar
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    Lol I was laughing at the mandatory course part, it was really funny
     
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  19. Original

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    ..if that'd be correct then why have "amrit sanchar" ?
     
  20. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Qatar
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    It's like an accelerated route in Bhagti, Guru Ji made an incredibly easy way to walk down the path if taken seriously.

    Many bhagats have walked the path of Truth before.
     
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