Sikh Does Guru Granth Sahib Instruct Us To Do Jap /simran Of "har"

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by A_seeker, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. A_seeker

    A_seeker Writer SPNer

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    If that is the case why Waheguru is our Gurmantar.
     
  2. A_seeker

    A_seeker Writer SPNer

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    Thats the beauty of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.There is no one approach to understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Because it's not based on any one particular belief system .
    But Whatever Guru Nanak said his followers will paint what suits them and drawing own conclusions.
    SATNAM
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  3. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    Excellent question. :) Keep going!
     
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  4. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    In my limited knowledge, I would say the SGGS does not instruct us to do jap simran of har, but to encourage us to live a full happy life maintaining a connection to the universe and being in consonance with such, but I guess repeating the word 'har' is a hell of a lot easier
     
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  5. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    On my travels along the Sikh path I started out believing similar to A_seeker. I thought the gold standard of Sikh practice was to sit in the dark and repeat Waheguru until something magical happened. I would try to have a constant chant of Waheguru, Waheguru in my head all the time. I sung it, I listened to it, and I believed very hard that some miracle would occur.

    All that happened to me was I became numb and dumb. Maybe it's different for other people, but my mind was so full of parrot chanting that I couldn't really *listen* to God, I wasn't *singing* (my thoughts and actions weren't in harmony with God) because I wasn't paying attention, I wasnt believing. I was playing telephone hold music in my brain!!

    My personal practice turned a corner when I stopped mindless chanting of a word and started to focus, contemplate Gurbani in less literal terms, and let my mind be filled with love and awe instead. When I started to really pay attention and use my discerning intellect to observe and get a sense of hukam (listening), then try act in consonance with that universal will (singing), things started to make a lot more sense, I became far more useful and dutiful, and I got more glimpses of the Whole and the exclaimed "Wah!".

    But this is just my own experience.
     
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  6. Kanwaljit.Singh

    Kanwaljit.Singh Writer SPNer

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    Guru Granth Sahib is not a rule book or manual. It is not about religion. It is about existence.
    While it is good to question the practices, one should not just ignore the experiences of Maha Purakhs before us.
     
  7. Kanwaljit.Singh

    Kanwaljit.Singh Writer SPNer

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    This video beautifully covers what Simran is?
     
  8. A_seeker

    A_seeker Writer SPNer

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    [
    But that is the question How? How do we start.If it all its abt living happy life why do we need to read and understand Gurbani at all .

    When God is omnipresent why cant't I meet him directly.Here comes the play of Mind and ego.It is the greatest barrier to connect to the divine i.It is very difficult to drop the ego ,it requires a very deep and profound understanding which we do not have.So what is required is to turn inwards to know your true self and here it's where Meditation ,Awarness ,Mindfullness practices come abt.

    But not easy when you Repeat Gods name with awareness/Surat Shabad .What chanting/meditations does is it brings you into silence and once you are silent you can hear the resonance of Almighty within you.Authentic Knowledge comes from within self and not through words or reading.
    Guru Granth Sahib and other scriptures are the evidence.

    Bhul Chuk Maaf
     
  9. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    The very first paurhi of Japji Sahib says meditation doesn't work.

    ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ
    सोचै सोचि न होवई जे सोची लख वार ॥
    Socẖai socẖ na hova▫ī je socẖī lakẖ vār.
    By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.

    ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ
    चुपै चुप न होवई जे लाइ रहा लिव तार ॥
    Cẖupai cẖup na hova▫ī je lā▫e rahā liv ṯār.
    By remaining silent, inner silence is not obtained, even by remaining lovingly absorbed deep within.


    ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ
    भुखिआ भुख न उतरी जे बंना पुरीआ भार ॥
    Bẖukẖi▫ā bẖukẖ na uṯrī je bannā purī▫ā bẖār.
    The hunger of the hungry is not appeased, even by piling up loads of worldly goods.

    ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਇਕ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ
    सहस सिआणपा लख होहि त इक न चलै नालि ॥
    Sahas si▫āṇpā lakẖ hohi ṯa ik na cẖalai nāl.
    Hundreds of thousands of clever tricks, but not even one of them will go along with you in the end.

    ਕਿਵ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਕਿਵ ਕੂੜੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਪਾਲਿ
    किव सचिआरा होईऐ किव कूड़ै तुटै पालि ॥
    Kiv sacẖi▫ārā ho▫ī▫ai kiv kūrhai ṯutai pāl.
    So how can you become truthful? And how can the veil of illusion be torn away?

    ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥
    हुकमि रजाई चलणा नानक लिखिआ नालि ॥१॥
    Hukam rajā▫ī cẖalṇā Nānak likẖi▫ā nāl. ||1||
    O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will. ||1||​
     
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  10. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    I believe the references to chanting Naam are talking about keeping track of your attention and being mindful of God everywhere and in everything and the hukam that moves the universe. Maintaining the constant awareness of Har, Har, Waheguru... reminding yourself all the time... not literal repetition of words. I think I've run out of ways to try and explain this.
     
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  11. A_seeker

    A_seeker Writer SPNer

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    A Seeker never gets tired of asking questions/ and enlightened being like you never run out ways to answer that questions :):).Keep Up!!
     
  12. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    Enlightened? LOL I am also a seeker. The thing about learning is that it's a bit of a paradox - the more you know, the more you know that you don't know. Put another way, the larger the circumference of our circle of knowledge, the larger the circumference of 'the unknown' outside of the circle.
     
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  13. A_seeker

    A_seeker Writer SPNer

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    Bhai Vir Singh renowned sikh scholar wrote a book Gurumukh Sikiya .In which he discusses abt doing Waheguru Simran in great details infact its not parrot chanting according to him .
    Some of the Snippets i am producing below Now by @Ishna & @Tejwant Singh logic this book is holy crap.

    upload_2018-6-9_10-47-31.png






    Page 54
    upload_2018-6-9_10-38-29.png


    upload_2018-6-9_10-41-4.png

    Bhul Chuk Maf
     
  14. A_seeker

    A_seeker Writer SPNer

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    So according to you Waheguru is not Gurumantar..
     
  15. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    So according to me "Waheguru" is an exclamation of awe and appreciation of God. The Gurmantar is not a word, and Naam is not a word. It is the very awareness and recognition of God in and above everything.

    Also regarding your other post, I can't read Punjabi. Can you translate, or summarise, please? Then I can decide if it's holy crap or not. ;)
     
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  16. A_seeker

    A_seeker Writer SPNer

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    How to experience it for a person who is like not literate or has no idea /knowledge abt Gurbani .What steps should he follow.
     
  17. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    It's a universal truth that can be learned a variety of ways. Sikhi is a very efficient path to learning it. If one is not literate, one should take steps to learn. In the meantime one can go to the Gurdwara, listen to the kirtan and contemplate it deeply. They can ask friends and family ad Gurdwara staff for clarification. In a last hope they can come online and ask on a forum, or search around for resources and books that are in easier language for them to understand.

    However, at the end of the day, the penny of understanding will only drop with God's kirpa.

    I don't claim to have all the answers, I just share my opinion and personal experiences.
     
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  18. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    he should live, and live by truth, and interact, and love, and laugh,and cry, and hurt, and feel pleasure, feel pain, feel joy, he should gain, and he should lose, till after some time, he is covered with the scars of a thousand whips, but he will know how angels sing, and what they sing, he should have soared like the highest rocket, exploding and showering his happiness on the world, and he should also have plunged into the very depths of the abyss, and conversed with satan himself, once he has done all this, he will have a similar knowledge to that of a brahmgyani, or he will be dead, but by that time, he will not care.
     
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  19. A_seeker

    A_seeker Writer SPNer

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    English Translation
    Name is intially Material /Gross(ਸਥੂਲ) then it becomes(ਸੂਖਮ) .By reading Gurbani mind becomes radiant and does not fall into traps of Manmat.

    Many say what is the use of doing WaheGuru WaheGuru .This is totally mechanical recitation.This is not correct .People of Tibet write their Gods name and put it inside a round box and then place it on a stick and with hand starts rotating it this can be mechanical.but our WaheGuru WaheGuru cannot be mechanical .We are not Lifeless(ਨਿਰਜਿੰਦ) object.We have got intellect .By doing WaheGuru WaheGuru it does effects our mind .
     
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  20. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    I am one of those many, and what you write is merely your opinion, just like my dear brother Chaz, if you guys get something out of it, carry on, more power to you, but for some of us, it is pointless, and it is mechanical, the people of tibet will probably have a very good argument why their method is not mechanical, just as you do, no, we are not lifeless, we have got intellect, so from an intellectual point of view, how can repeating the same word again and again help me, no doubt it helps you, but how would it help me?
     
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