Sikh Does Guru Granth Sahib Instruct Us To Do Jap /simran Of "har"

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by A_seeker, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. A_seeker

    A_seeker SPNer

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    Sat Sri Akal .
    As we know HAR(ਹਰਿ) is a very common word in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.It comes over 9000 times(approx) in Guru Granth Sahib.The literal meaning of HAR is Gods name (refer snippet).Now it happens to me sometimes that when i read Banis and when HAR shabad comes it makes me feel that Guru sahab is telling me to do JAP/simran of HAR.

    Do share your opinion.
    Does the word comes in any other Shastar like vedas,Puranas,Koran etc?

    Is there any katha on Shabad HAR ? Plz do share .

    Ang Sang Waheguru
    upload_2018-6-6_15-13-16.png
    Shabad Khosh Bhai Vir Singh
     
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  3. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Firstly, welcome to SPN.

    Please share what Jap/Jup means to you in your own understanding so that I can understand where you are coming from. Thanks
     
  4. A_seeker

    A_seeker SPNer

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    What I understand by Jap is that it is the initial step in a spiritual process to turn inwards and find your true self. And as you progress the Jap becomes Simran
    Regards
     
  5. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Pardon my ignorance I have no idea what you mentioned above.
    Would you be kind enough to simplify it, please?
    What is Simran?
    Is it different than Jap?

    I apologise for being pedantic.
     
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  6. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Please check this video about Jap.

     
  7. A_seeker

    A_seeker SPNer

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    The query is not abt Jap or Simran.It is abt the word HAR
    Lets take a shabad below and see what GuruJi is saying



    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਨੁ ਜਪਉ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰੀ ॥
    I chant the chant of the Name of the Lord, day and night; I chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, and enshrine it within my heart.

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਅਉਖਧੁ ਜਗਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੀ ॥੩॥
    The Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, is the most perfect medicine in this world; chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, I have conquered my ego. |


    Its say chant the Name of the Lord. if we think the first thing our mind will say Waheguru is the name and chant Waheguru.Beacuse this what we hear from friends, Gyanis etc.
    Now my understanding is it is not Waheguru but the word HAR is to be chanted again & again.Because nowhere in GuruGranth Gurus has mentioned Waheguru is the name of the Lord .
    Waheguru has been used only 13 times by bhats in Guru Granth Sahib in praises of Guru Ram Das .

    SATNAM
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  8. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Thanks for clarifying it. In Hinduism, they call it Hari which is the same as Har. The common greeting his Hari Om.

    Well, we have to find out if chanting means the same as Jap/Simran...........

    Does Guru Nanak say to chant when he named the 38 pauris plus salok as Jap ji?
    If this is the case, then we have to chant the whole Jap ji again and again.
    Please share your thoughts. Thanks.
     
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  9. A_seeker

    A_seeker SPNer

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    I think it does not answer my query:
    The question is abt WaheGuru and Har as Gods Name.
    Jap is translated as Chanting,Meditating

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਨੁ ਜਪਉ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰੀ ॥

    how do you like to translate the above shabad or what is the message being conveyed .
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  10. A_seeker

    A_seeker SPNer

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    HAR is coming 10 times in these two lines .What does it convey
     
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  11. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Next time, please post the whole Shabad with the Ang number, 666 in this case, with your own understanding because the English translations are misleading.

    Well, actually it comes more than 10 times in the whole Shabad. In order to understand Gurbani, we have to grasp the meaning of the whole Shabad. Parsing it in one-liners does no good because our visionary Gurus wrote the whole thought in each and every Shabad. Hence one-liners do not do justice to our visionary Gurbani.

    As far as the above is concerned, it means to soak oneself in the bathtub of Har. Make the Har glow through every fibre of one's body through one's gait, one's talk, one's deeds.

    When one studies and understands the whole Shabad, which is posted below, one would get the gist of Har.

    Now, one has to understand what Jap and Simran mean and how they fit in our Guru's message.

    Do they mean chant in the Shabad?


    ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ ਚਉਪਦੇ
    Ḏẖanāsrī mėhlā 4 gẖar 1 cẖa▫upḏe
    Dhanaasaree, Fourth Mehl, First House, Chau-Padas:

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

    ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਵਹਿ ਸੰਤ ਭਗਤ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਸਭਿ ਪਾਪ ਨਿਵਾਰੀ
    Jo har sevėh sanṯ bẖagaṯ ṯin ke sabẖ pāp nivārī.
    Those Saints and devotees who serve the Lord have all their sins washed away.

    ਹਮ ਊਪਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਖੁ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਤੁਮ ਜੁ ਪਿਆਰੀ ॥੧॥
    Ham ūpar kirpā kar su▫āmī rakẖ sangaṯ ṯum jo pi▫ārī. ||1||
    Have Mercy on me, O Lord and Master, and keep me in the Sangat, the Congregation that You love. ||1||

    ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਕਹਿ ਸਕਉ ਬਨਵਾਰੀ
    Har guṇ kahi na saka▫o banvārī.
    I cannot even speak the Praises of the Lord, the Gardener of the world.

    ਹਮ ਪਾਪੀ ਪਾਥਰ ਨੀਰਿ ਡੁਬਤ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪਾਖਣ ਹਮ ਤਾਰੀ ਰਹਾਉ
    Ham pāpī pāthar nīr dubaṯ kar kirpā pākẖaṇ ham ṯārī. Rahā▫o.
    We are sinners, sinking like stones in water; grant Your Grace, and carry us stones across. ||Pause||

    ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਲਾਗੇ ਬਿਖੁ ਮੋਰਚਾ ਲਗਿ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਾਧ ਸਵਾਰੀ
    Janam janam ke lāge bikẖ morcẖā lag sangaṯ sāḏẖ savārī.
    The rust of poison and corruption from countless incarnations sticks to us; joining the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, it is cleaned away.

    ਜਿਉ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਬੈਸੰਤਰਿ ਤਾਇਓ ਮਲੁ ਕਾਟੀ ਕਟਿਤ ਉਤਾਰੀ ॥੨॥
    Ji▫o kancẖan baisanṯar ṯā▫i▫o mal kātī katiṯ uṯārī. ||2||
    It is just like gold, which is heated in the fire, to remove the impurities from it. ||2||

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਨੁ ਜਪਉ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰੀ
    Har har japan japa▫o ḏin rāṯī jap har har har ur ḏẖārī.
    I chant the chant of the Name of the Lord, day and night; I chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, and enshrine it within my heart.

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਅਉਖਧੁ ਜਗਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੀ ॥੩॥
    Har har har a▫ukẖaḏẖ jag pūrā jap har har ha▫umai mārī. ||3||
    The Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, is the most perfect medicine in this world; chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, I have conquered my ego. ||3||

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਅਗਮ ਅਗਾਧਿ ਬੋਧਿ ਅਪਰੰਪਰ ਪੁਰਖ ਅਪਾਰੀ
    Har har agam agāḏẖ boḏẖ aprampar purakẖ apārī.
    The Lord, Har, Har, is unapproachable, of unfathomable wisdom, unlimited, all-powerful and infinite.

    ਜਨ ਕਉ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਜਗਜੀਵਨ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਪੈਜ ਸਵਾਰੀ ॥੪॥੧॥
    Jan ka▫o kirpā karahu jagjīvan jan Nānak paij savārī. ||4||1||
    Show Mercy to Your humble servant, O Life of the world, and save the honor of servant Nanak. ||4||1||
     
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  12. FilledToTheBrim

    FilledToTheBrim SPNer

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    In order to cross the worldy Ocean, we need to find the sangat. Within the sangat we will remove our impurities. We do this by japing the Jap of the lord day and night, And keeping the Jap within our heart. Through this mercy we overcome ego and cross the worldy Ocean without drowning.

    Still not sure what Jap means here but it's something we have to keep within ourselves and do at all times.
     
  13. A_seeker

    A_seeker SPNer

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    Sure I will Do that .Thanks

    Jap has very simple meaning repeating Gods Name again & again .Mahan Khosh meaning is given below:

    upload_2018-6-7_9-3-7.png


    Now the message from the quoted shabad is in two parts first keep the company of God Oriented people. Second to keep chanting HAR, HAR which is Gods name according to gurbani and not Waheguru ,Waheguru .This chanting will become Simran one day.
    Thanks
     
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  14. A_seeker

    A_seeker SPNer

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    According to you Japing of what Har,Har or Waheguru ,Waheguru or any other word??

    Jap is reciting or chanting!! Simple]

    Repeating Gods Name again and again is JAP.

    upload_2018-6-7_9-9-48.png
     
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  15. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Allow me to take your claim a bit farther if I may. If you believe
    then one has to chant the whole Jap of 38 pauris and Salok repeatedly. If that were the case then, Guru Nanak would have instructed us to do so.
    Either Guru Nanak is right or the others. Which one would it be?
     
  16. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਕਹਿ ਸਕਉ ਬਨਵਾਰੀ
    Har guṇ kahi na saka▫o banvārī.
    I cannot even speak the Praises of the Lord, the Gardener of the world.

    ਹਮ ਪਾਪੀ ਪਾਥਰ ਨੀਰਿ ਡੁਬਤ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪਾਖਣ ਹਮ ਤਾਰੀ ਰਹਾਉ
    Ham pāpī pāthar nīr dubaṯ kar kirpā pākẖaṇ ham ṯārī. Rahā▫o.
    We are sinners, sinking like stones in water; grant Your Grace, and carry us stones across. ||Pause||

    The above is the central idea of the whole Shabad
     
  17. A_seeker

    A_seeker SPNer

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    It has to been seen in the context the word JAP is coming

    1.In Japji sahib the meaning of JAP is now JapJi bani composition has started and this bani is to recited as a part of Nitnem.

    2. The other context i.e in the shabad above(...ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੀ )Jap is being referred to repeating Gods name .ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੀ

    Regards
     
  18. A_seeker

    A_seeker SPNer

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    Great Lets make it more interesting ,We Take another Shabad Page 1138

    ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ
    भैरउ महला ५ ॥
    Bẖairo mėhlā 5.
    Bhairao, Fifth Mehl:

    ਸਾਚ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਲਹਹੁ
    साच पदारथु गुरमुखि लहहु ॥
    Sācẖ paḏārath gurmukẖ lahhu.
    As Gurmukh, obtain the true wealth.

    ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਾ ਭਾਣਾ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਹਹੁ ॥੧॥
    प्रभ का भाणा सति करि सहहु ॥१॥
    Parabẖ kā bẖāṇā saṯ kar sahhu. ||1||
    Accept the Will of God as True. ||1||

    ਜੀਵਤ ਜੀਵਤ ਜੀਵਤ ਰਹਹੁ
    जीवत जीवत जीवत रहहु ॥
    Jīvaṯ jīvaṯ jīvaṯ rahhu.
    Live, live, live forever.

    ਰਾਮ ਰਸਾਇਣੁ ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਪੀਵਹੁ
    राम रसाइणु नित उठि पीवहु ॥
    Rām rasā▫iṇ niṯ uṯẖ pīvhu.
    Rise early each day, and drink in the Nectar of the Lord.

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਨਾ ਕਹਹੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    हरि हरि हरि हरि रसना कहहु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Har har har har rasnā kahhu. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    With your tongue, chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, Har. ||1||Pause||

    ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਮਹਿ ਇਕ ਨਾਮਿ ਉਧਾਰੁ
    कलिजुग महि इक नामि उधारु ॥
    Kalijug mėh ik nām uḏẖār.
    In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the One Name alone shall save you.

    ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੋਲੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥੨॥੧੧॥
    नानकु बोलै ब्रहम बीचारु ॥२॥११॥
    Nānak bolai barahm bīcẖār. ||2||11||
    Nanak speaks the wisdom of God. ||2||11||

    In the above shabad the Centre Idea is to chant HAR,HAR with your tongue.How about that. I hope your are not mistaking my views as mantra chanting popular amoung other culture.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  19. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    The fact of the matter is our first bani is JAP. Ji is just added to it and more importantly, if we cannot grasp the meaning of JAP when mentioned for the first time in the SGGS, our only Guru, then we are doing nothing but concocting our own stories.

    How did you come to the conclusion of what is in the bold? Did Guru Nanak mention Nitnem anywhere?

    Are you trying to say that except JAP, in the beginning, the other times when JAP is mentioned it is to parrot Har repeatedly? In other words, the first word JAP in the SGGS means nothing but all the other times when JAP is mentioned, which is quite often, is meant for us to parrot one word?

    Your claim seems quite nebulous. Would you care to clarify it? Thanks.
     
  20. A_seeker

    A_seeker SPNer

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    I never said JAP is to parrot i am just quoting what gurbani is mentioning.I thinks so we are not in common terms regarding the word ਜਪਿ.According to you what does ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ means.
    Regards
     
  21. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    No, I am afraid it does not. ਰਸਨਾ is a taste bud. As mentioned in the earlier post where Har comes several times, it is the same message. Taste of Har, Har, Har. Nowhere does it say to parrot as you claim. Repeating one word endlessly is parroting. One can use any word to get the trance, even Lady Gaga. It does not have to be Har or Vaheguru.

    Co-incidently, the meaning of Jeevat is explained succulently in the following thread today. It is a must to understand the meaning of Jeevat in order to understand the message of our visionary Gurus.
    Sikhi - The Concept Of A Living Guru
     
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