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Jaap Do You Think Jaap Sahib Passes The Touchstone Of Gurbani?

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Only the GURU can pass us over to the Next Guru..as did Guru nanak ji to Bhai lehnna Ji as GURU ANGAD JI..and so on till Guru Gobind Singh ji passed us over to the Guruship of SGGS.
ONLY the GURU tells us what we need to "know..and think"...period.
JAPJI is what our GURU tells us to read, vichaar and follow...why we need to think about other poems/books/granths/ is beyond me. SGGS is SARAB KALA SAMRATH..SANT and SIPAHI...nothing else left uncompleted/left out...

jaap sahib guru gobind singh ji di baani nahi hai ????????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,prof sarbjit singh dhunda - YouTube

2. Its a seriously flawed premise to "IGNORE the book and author"....Japji sahib is JAPJI SAHIB because its composed by GURU NANAK JI SAHIB....THAT is its GREATEST and MOST IMPORTANT touchstone !! Anyone who says...ignore the author and ignore the SGGS..and comment on japji is way beyond XXXXEach LINE in SGGS is DIVINE simply becauue its inside the SGGS !!! WITH a absolutley DIVINE JAPJI SAHIB present in our GURU SGGS....there is NO NEED for another that is OUTSIDE the GURU.
 

Ishna

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For crying out loud, calm down, take a breath, it's just a question, put the capslock away. I'm not questioning SGGS, in fact people like GYANIJI should well know my personal position on this subject, so don't criticize the question like I'm a ******.

Jaap Sahib is included in the SRM. That is why I want to know which parts people have issues with.

And it appears the answer is "it's not in SGGS so it doesn't count".
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Ishna Ji,
By now you should know that..
1. SRM- No Individual Sikh can question this document. Its Panthic.
2. No Sikh can dare question the SGGS....our one and only GURU. Period.
3. Its not up to individuals to ignore authorships and books - any book's "VALUE" is definitley TIED UP with the AUTHOR....thats the MAIN REASON the Name of GURU GOBIND SINGH JI is being attached. IF the name of GURU JI were DROPPED...no issues at all. The main issue therefore is AUTHORSHIP. I was referring to this flaw in your premise..i didnt say YOU are questioning the SGGS...
4. Usage of CAPITALS is a personal quirk of mine..no offense (its NOT the normal way of "shouting"..its my way of emphasis..because i never shout...so it may be a long time (if ever) I lay off capitals.
 

Admin

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Ishna Ji,

As Gyani ji said "Usage of CAPITALS is a personal quirk of mine..no offense (its NOT the normal way of "shouting"..its my way of emphasis..because i never shout...so it may be a long time (if ever) I lay off capitals."

I think using ALL CAPS WORDS LIKE THIS AMOUNTS TO SHOUTING! What Gyani ji is doing is STRESSING on a word, which is absolutely fine... and i find no need to shell this habit... mundahug

I think the matter is now resolved.

Gurfateh!
 

Ishna

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Ok, if it's not possible for a Sikh to say whether something can pass as Gurbani or not (understood), is it possible to look at the contents of the Jaap and assess whether anything in it is anti-Gurmat? For instance, Chaupai contains much talk about enemies and them dying a horrible death which doesn't fit with the theme of SGGS. So, are there any parts of Jaap which are out of tune, like those parts of Chaupai?

Many thanks to Prakash ji for pointing out that Naam(u) and GuR Jot are noticeably absent from it.
 

Ambarsaria

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Many thanks to Prakash ji for pointing out that Naam(u) and GuR Jot are noticeably absent from it.
Ishna ji perhaps the following may be of help,


  • Naam(u)
    • Understanding of creator
  • GuR Jot
    • Essence of creator
The "Danger of Professing" to know what is missing in given Gurbani or other composition is acting like a Guru ji or the writer after the fact driven by ego. For example, it is like as though we are the judge of Gurbani.

I have no issue with verifying authenticity through normal historic, scholarly or other research but shoddy work is very dangerous and superfluous.

For example:

Naam(u) or GuR Jot, chosen decision criteria of Prakash.S.Bagga ji are not mentioned by Sheikh/Baba Farid's compositions in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Our Guru ji though decided to have it as part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Lesson: Sometimes we are too wise for own goodpeacesign
With the above perhaps it is worthwhile re-checking what is, if anything missing. I have not studied Jaap Sahib to comment.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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Ishna

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I'm not trying to act like a 'Guru' or to judge Gurbani (since Jaap is not Gurbani). Apologies if I'm coming across that way. People here have had frank discussions about chaupai, so why not jaap?

Jaap is required for recitation or listening to by Amritdhari Sikhs every single day. Since an SRM-toting Sikh is supposed to believe in amrit sanchar, as a Sikh I try to consider those things which make a 'Khalsa' a 'Khalsa', which includes reading some poems from DG daily.

So, keeping the SRM in mind, I try to learn about the poems and see if they line up to Gurmat thinking. I haven't seen anything which stands out as obviously out of tune when it comes to Jaap (besides what has already been mentioned by others- authorship).

I know I understand about 2% of Gurmat thinking so I thought I'd check with others what they thought about Jaap.
 
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Ambarsaria

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I'm not trying to act like a 'Guru' or to judge Gurbani (since Jaap is not Gurbani). Apologies if I'm coming across that way.

............................

I know I understand about 2% of Gurmat thinking so I thought I'd check with others what they thought about Jaap.

Is it hubris to ask such a question?
Ishna Bhain ji you have brilliantly handled your posts. There is absolutely nothing wrong in asking such question.

The issue I flagged was Prakash.S.Bagga ji's metrics on qualifying what is Gurbani. I perhaps should have built my response out of his post versus yours. Sorry if it caused any confusion for you.

Take care.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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at several places in SGGS, Guur nanak ji, guur angad ji, Guur Amardass Ji, Guru ramdass Ji and Guru Arjun Ji sahib give IMPLICIT and EXPLICIT instructions on SACHI BANI/GURBANI. We are forewarned agianst all KACHI BANI meaning whatever is NOT INSIDE the GURU- SGGS. Only the GURU has the power to speak GURBANI. PERIOD. So either we DISAWOW the SGGS as the SOLE GURU...or we seek GURBANI only WITHING SGGS. No two ways about that. we do Guur Gobind Singh ji a serious disservice when we make decisions on His behalf and declare poems as His bani....He DIDNT make that assertions and more importantly blatant liars ahve made these assertions by palcing patshshi das in front of compositions which have distinct authors.

Read the facts in the follwoing pdf:
http://www.khalsanews.org/articles/2011/03Mar2011/Dasam Granth da Likhari Kaun - Jaswinder S Dubai.pdf

At its end the author asks a few Questions and the correct answers will earn you a reward of 5 KROR RUPEES..yet unclaimed since 2005. The Correct answers will prove the DG is a Fraud.
 

bscheema

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well i dnt kno much about all this but i think making of Gutka sahib should be taken in mind coz in nitnem jaap sahib is added in every copy of it while it ignore much gurbani of Shri Guru granth Sahib which i think limited parchar of guru granth sahib bani ..except Japji sahib , Rehras sahib ,Anand sahib , kirtan sohila..etc frm SGGS JI , nd like i am limited to these bani only if im not using internet or if i dnt approch my near by gurudware to read othr bani frm SGGS ji . thr shld b a handy gutka for banis from diffrent guru's beside that pothi's

nd ishna ji sorry if i deviated from the topic of above discussion:happymunda:
 

BhagatSingh

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Prakash Singh ji,
Why do you say Naam and Grujot does not appear in Jaap Sahib. To my knowledge Jaap Sahib is just that a jaap of Naam arising from a meditation on Gurujot.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Actually the entire premise of this Thread is wrong.
The GURBANI "touchstone" test is used to verify if any writing/historical sakhi/incident/poem etc is as..."per Gurbani.....in essence. This DOESNT make the sakhi/inicdent/historical incident into GURBANI....because the GURBANI is GURU and GURU is GURBANI as Guru Amardass ji already explcitly and implicitly declared in Anand sahib.
In the entire SGGS, there are a few Nanaks contributing..BUT NONE has penned a "DUPLICATE" Japji..Sukhmani..Anand Sahib...so there are no two japjis or two Sukhmanis, Two Anands, two Sadds,two Sohilas, or Two rehrasses.. in SGGS. There are various paintees Akhreeh compositions which stand on their own and have their authors clearly displayed. WHAT GURU NANAK JI began..the following NANAKS faithfully followed and REITERATED..explained further..elaborated on..etc BUT Never "duplicated". And also even more importantly there are no such japjis, sukhmanis, or anands by unknown authors still available OUTSIDE the SGGS for us Sikhs to be going around wild goose chasing them to verify their Gurbani Touchstone charactersitics !!! The GURU is SARAB KALA SANRATH SARAB KALA SAMPOORAN..COMPLETE in all aspects.
The GURBANI is GURBANI..however the SIKH GURUS NEVER laid exclusive claim to be the Know alls, the ONLY WAY..etc... For EXAMPLE.... there is.."Naam" in the Vedas..as stated in the SGGS...but that is beside the point. FOR a SIKH the SOLE ISHT has to be the SGGS and SGGS ONLY..NONE OTHER.....a SIKH has to have his FILL of Naam form GURBANI in SGGS...he neednt go loking at the Vedas..or the Koran or the Bible..or anywhere else..IF a "SIKH" is UNFUFILLED by the SGGS..then its his own failing and NOT the SGGS. IF a person cant be filled by the OCEAN..then its not the fault of the Ocean and he can stand by a brook and claim that small drain fills him...becasue the drain also contains WATER..same as the Ocean ???
BOTTOM LINE..only GURU can pen GURBANI. Period. The GURU is SGGS. PERIOD.welcomemunda
 

BhagatSingh

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Prakash ji, I don't think you need a quotation for this. But look at this. This is Jap and Simran in action, it is put the Formless put into words. It is not telling one to meditate on Raam Naam and realize Gurujyot, it is doing it.

To my knowledge, Jap is a verb and Jaap is a noun. This is very obvous from the bani that this is Jaap. One could Jap it but this is specifically the author's Jaap.

ਜਾਪੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ
जापु साहिब
JAPU SAHIB

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
The Lord is One and He can be attained through the grace of the true Guru.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹ ॥
स्री वाहिगुरू जी की फ़तह ॥
The Lord is One and the victory is of the Lord.

ਜਾਪੁ ॥
जापु ॥
NAME OF THE BANI.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ ੧੦ ॥
स्री मुखवाक पातिसाही १० ॥
The sacred utterance of The Tenth Sovereign:

ਛਪੈ ਛੰਦ ॥ ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
छपै छंद ॥ त्वप्रसादि ॥
CHHAPAI STANZA. BY THY GRACE

ਚੱਕ੍ਰ ਚਿਹਨ ਅਰੁ ਬਰਨ ਜਾਤਿ ਅਰੁ ਪਾਤਿ ਨਹਿਨ ਜਿਹ ॥
च्क्र चिहन अरु बरन जाति अरु पाति नहिन जिह ॥
He who is without mark or sign, He who is without caste or line.

ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਅਰੁ ਰੇਖ ਭੇਖ ਕੋਊ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਤਿ ਕਿਹ ॥
रूप रंग अरु रेख भेख कोऊ कहि न सकति किह ॥
He who is without colour or form, and without any distinctive norm.

ਅਚਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਨਭਉ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ ਅਮਿਤੋਜਿ ਕਹਿਜੈ ॥
अचल मूरति अनभउ प्रकास अमितोजि कहिजै ॥
He who is without limit and motion, All effulgence, non-descript Ocean.

ਕੋਟਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾਣਿ ਸਾਹੁ ਸਾਹਾਣਿ ਗਣਿਜੈ ॥
कोटि इंद्र इंद्राणि साहु साहाणि गणिजै ॥
The Lord of millions of Indras and kings, the Master of all worlds and beings.

ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਮਹੀਪ ਸੁਰ ਨਰ ਅਸੁਰ ਨੇਤਿ ਨੇਤਿ ਬਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਣ ਕਹਤ ॥
त्रिभवण महीप सुर नर असुर नेति नेति बन त्रिण कहत ॥
Each twig of the foliage proclaims: "Not this Thou art".


ਤ੍ਵ ਸਰਬ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਰਣਤ ਸੁਮਤਿ ॥੧॥
त्व सरब नाम कथै कवन करम नाम बरणत सुमति ॥१॥
All Thy Names cannot be told. One doth impart Thy Action-Name with benign heart.1.

ਭੁਜੰਗ ਪ੍ਰਯਾਤ ਛੰਦ ॥
भुजंग प्रयात छंद ॥
BHUJANG PRAYAAT STANZA

ਨਮਸਤ੍ਵੰ ਅਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤ੍ਵੰ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੇ ॥
नमसत्वं अकाले ॥ नमसत्वं क्रिपाले ॥
Salutation to Thee O Timeless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Beneficent Lord!

ਨਮਸਤ੍ਵੰ ਅਰੂਪੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤ੍ਵੰ ਅਨੂਪੇ ॥੨॥
नमसत्वं अरूपे ॥ नमसत्वं अनूपे ॥२॥
Salutation to Thee O Formless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Wonderful Lord! 2.

ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੇਖੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਲੇਖੇ ॥
नमसतं अभेखे ॥ नमसतं अलेखे ॥
Salutation to Thee O Garbless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Accountless Lord!

ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਕਾਏ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਜਾਏ ॥੩॥
नमसतं अकाए ॥ नमसतं अजाए ॥३॥
Salutation to Thee O Bodyless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Unborn Lord!3.

ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਗੰਜੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੰਜੇ ॥
नमसतं अगंजे ॥ नमसतं अभंजे ॥
Salutation to Thee O Indestructible Lord! Salutation to Thee O Indivisible Lord!

ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਨਾਮੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਠਾਮੇ ॥੪॥
नमसतं अनामे ॥ नमसतं अठामे ॥४॥
Salutation to Thee O Nameless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Non-Spatial Lord! 4.

ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਕਰਮੰ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਧਰਮੰ ॥
नमसतं अकरमं ॥ नमसतं अधरमं ॥
Salutation to Thee O Deedless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Non-Religious Lord!

ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਨਾਮੰ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਧਾਮੰ ॥੫॥
नमसतं अनामं ॥ नमसतं अधामं ॥५॥
Salutation to Thee O Nameless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Abodeless Lord! 5.

ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਜੀਤੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੀਤੇ ॥
नमसतं अजीते ॥ नमसतं अभीते ॥
Salutation to Thee O Unconquerable Lord! Salutation to Thee O Fearless Lord!

ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਬਾਹੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਢਾਹੇ ॥੬॥
नमसतं अबाहे ॥ नमसतं अढाहे ॥६॥
Salutation to Thee O Vehicleless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Unfallen Lord! 6.

ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਨੀਲੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਨਾਦੇ ॥
नमसतं अनीले ॥ नमसतं अनादे ॥
Salutation to Thee O Colourless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Beginningless Lord!

ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਛੇਦੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਗਾਧੇ ॥੭॥
नमसतं अछेदे ॥ नमसतं अगाधे ॥७॥
Salutation to Thee O Blemishless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Infinite Lord! 7.
 

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This Shabd is composed by Guru Nanak ji in Asa Rag and is recorded on page 360 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The complete shabd is as follows.


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