• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Atheism Do You Believe In Waheguru

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
8,194
54
This is just your opinion... I can not see how the creator would be just 'truth' because then you are equating our creator to science. Waheguru (Which must 'exist' as being... and conscious of creation) for me, is not just an interchangeable term for 'science'. I don't 'pray' to science...
Perhaps a better way to explain your views, would be to say in the post that it is your opinion, rather than put it out there as the absolute truth?

Forgive me for the misleading comments I have been making, I personally thought it was obvious they were my opinions, but maybe you are correct, we should all finish our posts with a disclaimer stating that they are not the absolute truth, just our opinions, although, I note you have not done the same with your post, are your posts then the absolute truths?

Because many people believe in Waheguru as creator... and not as merely science.

I like this, this is fun, take a quote, manipulate it to your own ends, and then make a statement based on your own manipulations, I did not bring science ino this, you did...lol

Science is the discovery of the truth, through scientific methods, I believe Sikhism is the discovery of the truth through wisdom.

I do not need a personal Jesus.
 

palaingtha

SPNer
Aug 28, 2012
270
295
92
spnadmin ji

Wouldn't the SGPC Rehat Maryada be considered a "mainstream" position?
(I'm aware that it doesn't go into this question -- i'm just trying to establish if/what "mainstream" Sikhi is.

(It could be as simple as the "majority" position at any time, for example. That seems to be the origin of the SGPD Rehat.)


Akiva

If your question is directed towards differing principles in Sikhism then I have a rejoinder.
Sikhi has fixed, unwavering and esteemed Principles called "Gurmayada"

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਮਤਿ ਅਚਲੁ ਹੈ ਚਲਾਇ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਇ ॥(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji pp 548)

Gurmat is absolute, invariable, fixed and constant that nobody can modify/alter/change it.

What we need today is " A perfect interpreter of Gurbani to the Congregation.
To overcome the shortcoming in this direction our Granthis should be highly educated having minimum qualification of Giani from Authentic Institute/college/University. What we have in most of the Gurdwaras, Granthis trained by self appointed Sants and their Deras. And that is the reason why our religion is static, nay, eroding, day by day. We are today 2.7 crores as per census, but are figures for Kesh Dharis? No!!!
We need dedicated Granthis, well educated and above all well conversant in Gurbani to preach Sikhi to all Sikhs, especially, the growing generation--the youth.
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Feb 20, 2012
1,644
1,643
The GURUS Kept NO SECRETS.PERIOD.

Whatever they knew or experienced is RIGHT HERE in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..Collected Complete Wisdom free for all..PIO DADDEH DA KHOL DITTHAH KHAZANAH..Guru commands us to open and read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. There are no ********** Passwords that are hidden !!!

No other prophet etc wrote a single word in their own hand..everything comes second hand or worse..multi-hand...or via "angels" etc. to illiterate humans but written in Human language !!.

The TENTH GURU..even knelt before the Five to take the Pahul from them..erasing the Guru-Chela division...as this was going to be the standard after the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was made Guru...and the FIVE were going to represent the GURU in Person.

The NAAM is nota word..not a mantra to be chanted..the NAAM is PRACTICAL LIVING as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Standards ...Simply LIVING as per GURMATT is NAAMFUL LIVING.
People take to "chanting etc.." because its much EASIER...

IF it was declared that an aspiring Medical Student could just BORROW the Medical books form a library, put them under a Rumallah and DAILY CHANT "Hippocratic Oath" for a number of times..and be declared FULLY QUALIFIED DOCTOR...just imagine..just HOW MANY MILLION DOCS we would have....just about as many Engineers, Pharmacists, Teachers, Writers, etc etc etc...EVERY HUMAN being would be a qualified professional >>>???? and so CHEAPLY too......

THIS is the reason why we have a MILLION + 1 SAINTS/BABAS/DERAS !!! It costs absolutely NOTHING to be a qualified Baba Ji...One just has to CHANT..and beat the hell out of Dholkis and chamtas....Bebeh Main sant bannogaa !!! Uneducated Illeterate people making FOOLS out of the MASSES... 99% of these DONT LIVE NAAMFUL LIVING...:mundakhalsaflag:
When Jesus says "in the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was god"...and in Gurbani it says:

aadh jugaadh anaahadh anadhin ghatt ghatt sabadh rajaaee hae ||7||
From the very beginning, and throughout the ages, the unstruck sound current resounds, night and day; in each and every heart, the Word of the Shabad, echoes Your Will. ||7||

Full Beautiful shabad: http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3736

I think we can all agree that this word/shabad exists within us all and sustains us. Living as per Gurmat I agree is most important...but japping and meditating on your consciousness and your inner being is also part of that Gurmat.

if i pick up a drum stick and start bashing a drum kit...it's going to sound awfull!! :) put the same sticks into the hands of someone that has a passion, a love and focus for playing the drums...and you have something completely different.

In the same way...japping, meditating on vibrations that have come straight from the source such as Waheguru or any gurbani will have a profound effect on a soul filed with a love so deep, a thirst so strong for experiencing their true self and God within.

This is only my opinion which i have formed based on my understanding and experience of Gurbani...nothing more...

I can vouch that japping or meditating on the shabad within is not 'Easy'. going to bed at 11pm, waking up at 2.30am and doing Simran for 2.5 hours is not Easy...ignoring my guru;s call at 2.30am and turning a blind eye to it and falling back to sleep is very 'easy'. :)

Japping/meditating on Gurmanter can be mere japping or

japping/meditating on Gurmanter can open the whole universe up for you when powered by love and thirst for Guru Ji.

Just my thoughts Ji...nothing more.

God Bless
 

seeker3k

SPNer
May 24, 2008
316
241
canada
Seeker Ji
Sat sri akal brother
can you please provide some valid reliable source from your self exploration that Nanak and other gurus kept secrets from other people and humans?

How can any one have prof when there is nothing has been said about naam. You show me where any guru told you or any one to do the simran of particular naam, shabad. I can not find any where in SGGS that any guru gave us the mantar to do the simran.

When BHATS said wah guru they meant to praise the guru of that time. They were not praising the God. After the Khalsa was created many Sikhs started praising Gobind Singh and thats when they said wahe-guru. But when Gobibd Singh created Khalsa he sait is was Akal's foj. He did not say wahegur's foj.

The Akal was used by Hargobind when he created Akal Takhat.
Reciting of naam is Hindu tradition. Nanag was born Hindu and he went to many of Hindu holy places and talked with many sadhu n yogis. All his thinking was based on Hinduism. He was very logical person. He try to show people the there is no need to do any KARM_KAND to live good life.
We now doing opposite to what Nanak said. It is shame that we can not understand what he wanted us to learn.
No Sikh wrote Sikh history. It was written by mostly Hindus and maybe 2-3 Muslim. The Hindus made all the gurus KARAMATI. We are still syaing that Guru will help us when ever there is tuff time. No Guru can help us. If it be possible then when Hindus worshiping shivling and other stone, then Hindus be saved too. We create our own problem only we can fix them.
So how can I believe wahegur as as God? that was the question asked. I am sorry if I am going out of the way
Maybe the SPN just looking for YES or NO?
 

seeker3k

SPNer
May 24, 2008
316
241
canada
Sat Sri Akaal,

No one will come up for cleansing of religion for others, for sikhism and
as Guru's sikh everyone should contribute positively for cleansing.

Specially at homeland PUNJAB

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I dont understand what the writer is saying by contributing positively. We should not touch the bad things that are going on in Sikhism? I dont think it is very positive if we close our eyes to bad thing.
 

ravneet_sb

Writer
SPNer
Nov 5, 2010
864
326
52
How can any one have prof when there is nothing has been said about naam. You show me where any guru told you or any one to do the simran of particular naam, shabad. I can not find any where in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that any guru gave us the mantar to do the simran.

When BHATS said wah guru they meant to praise the guru of that time. They were not praising the God. After the Khalsa was created many Sikhs started praising Gobind Singh and thats when they said wahe-guru. But when Gobibd Singh created Khalsa he sait is was Akal's foj. He did not say wahegur's foj.

The Akal was used by Hargobind when he created Akal Takhat.
Reciting of naam is Hindu tradition. Nanag was born Hindu and he went to many of Hindu holy places and talked with many sadhu n yogis. All his thinking was based on Hinduism. He was very logical person. He try to show people the there is no need to do any KARM_KAND to live good life.
We now doing opposite to what Nanak said. It is shame that we can not understand what he wanted us to learn.
No Sikh wrote Sikh history. It was written by mostly Hindus and maybe 2-3 Muslim. The Hindus made all the gurus KARAMATI. We are still syaing that Guru will help us when ever there is tuff time. No Guru can help us. If it be possible then when Hindus worshiping shivling and other stone, then Hindus be saved too. We create our own problem only we can fix them.
So how can I believe wahegur as as God? that was the question asked. I am sorry if I am going out of the way
Maybe the SPN just looking for YES or NO?

Sat Sri Akaal,

One's own mind is the biggest hurdle, negativity of mind is the hurdle,

Learned people have different understanding, what about millions of people
who are not learned, are also part of religion. In fact daily routines are followed by that section of religious society.
religion is opium for masses not for individuals.


After getting a medical degree, one just don't treat learned, treat everyone.

but try to explain disease cause prevention cause of giving pill etc to unlearned, try what happens next,


Just give a simple pill from your awareness, that's what dera's baba's are doing

Poor are there in dera's, with babas for pill and learned for marketing and commercial.
Before taking pill learned asks so many questions, unlearned just have it.

Naam simran is recomended in Guru Granth Sahib Ji,
perspective of NAAM if different for learned and ignorant.

One is reflected through action, (karam) which is performed by body unconsciously and subconsciously,
not
what one say consciously

Consciousness to penetrate depths of subconscious and unconscious mind
takes years and sometimes generations
and a few time a moment with blessing of NATURE. for body to perform.
and
there is union of unconscious and conscious mind, or one performs
action with complete mind.

So Gurubani is in RAGA's for repeated vocal penetration to wake up unconscious mind
but not just what we say or preach consciously.

but perspective for learned is different and ignorant is different.

though pill is same, but perception of having pill is different.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 
Last edited:

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 3, 2011
1,634
2,758
Vancouver
Absolutely !!

Gurbani and gurmat is all about repeat, repeat and repeat' !!:tablakudi:

Repeat what though ????

REPEAT the TRUTH in all our conduct and actions.

REPEAT, REPEAT AND REPEAT....
Read gurbani.......repeat..
Sing shabad and kirtan.........Repeat...
Do a sehaj paart.........repeat..
Do good for someone......repeat...
say waheguru with both breaths....repeat.....
Do nitnem............repeat....
Put your bana on in the morning.......repeat again next day........
and so on........


We have ONE tongue, the same tongue that we may speak good of someone or praise them. Then this same tongue also utters foul, nindiya and chugliaanh !!
How can we ''WASH' this tongue that may have spoken filth ??

Well, i've tried soap and mouthwash and it doesn't work!!
The only thing that can wash my tongue is the simran and utterings of the Truth or Waheguru.
Keep repeating this and repeating is my trick!

This also helps to WASH and Cleanse my MIND as well.


NOTE- this is just my personal opinion and in no way is this statement defining the Truth, as I don't want to encourage and mislead anyone!!:grinningsingh:
I know some prefer using a car wash or paying someone else to do it, but I like to wash my own vehicle and God given body !:grinningkudi:
 
Last edited:

ravneet_sb

Writer
SPNer
Nov 5, 2010
864
326
52
Sat Sri Akaal.

Repeat till unconscious subconscious and conscious mind is one, and
than it connects with one

and thought speech and action is same.

in one straight line

union of
"Guru" and "Chela"
"Mind" and "Body"
"Manager" and "Worker"
"Mental" and "Physical"
"Positve" and "Negative"
"Surat" and "Shabad"

No differance, no deviation

Appe Gur Chela

first "SIDHI" is achieved.

very difficult and rare

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 

palaingtha

SPNer
Aug 28, 2012
270
295
92
I hate to sound childish, but Says who?

Please, furnish me with the evidence to support your loudly stated claim.

SPNer ARVIND has quoted Gurbani from pp 526 of SGGS which is good enough in reply to your query of birth, death and rebirth cycle theory of our Gurus.
But I feel I must reply to your query and as such here it is.
Your writing smacks of ill breeding you might have had as the words you have chosen are meant to hurt the sentiments of a man who is a stranger to you . I have not harmed you in any way. You have no right to use harsh words but as a lady, if you genuinely were, you could and, must have asked me saying something like this:- "I shall be pleased to have Gurbani verses supporting your contention that 'birth, death and rebirth ' cycle is what our Gurus believed." And I would have been happy to provide several Shalokas in support of the subject.

Some additional verses to what SPNer Arvind has already given:-
SUKHMANI SAHIB SHALOKA NO.19, ASHTPADI NO.4. GURU ARJUN DEV JI SAYS "THE SERVICE OF THE LORD AND THE SERVICE OF A GOOD MAN BREAKS THE BONDAGE OF BIRTH AND DEATH, AND ONE ATTAINS TO HAPPINESS..... HE TAKES THE NAME OF THE ONE AND STRINGS IT IN HIS HEART AND THEN HE WILL NOT BE SWEPT AGAIN INTO BIRTH. ( This entire translation is taken from THE GOSPEL OF THE GURU GRANTH SAHIB by Duncan Greenlees, M.A.(Oxon)

From the above said book I also reproduce relevant verses in English translation:
This soul has dwelt in many wombs; being plunged into a sweet fascination, it was trapped in the womb. This Maya has brought the three worlds into its power and set its lure in every bosom. (Ar. Bawan Akhari,7) (Brother) you are clinging closely to the unreal... desire, anger,greed and illusion- to these pleasures the senses cling......So the (Divine) Person, the Creator has caused you to wander again and again into birth.(Ar. Asa 126:1,3)
You may have a lot of money. But money cannot buy mannerism. You have to cultivate it. Be careful next time.
 

Ishna

Writer
SPNer
May 9, 2006
3,261
5,192
I'll make my question clearer for you:

Who says a person who doesn't believe in reincarnation is not a Sikh?

I wasn't asking any question about reincarnation, birth and death, whatever. I took issue with the way in which you announced that a fair few of the carefully thinking and honourably-living people posting in this thread are in fact not Sikhs. That's a tall claim and you need to substantiate it.

Oh and you can take the comments and assumptions you made about me and kindly, dear sir, sit on them. :wah:
 
Last edited:

palaingtha

SPNer
Aug 28, 2012
270
295
92
I'll make my question clearer for you:

Who says a person who doesn't believe in reincarnation is not a Sikh?

I wasn't asking any question about reincarnation, birth and death, whatever. I took issue with the way in which you announced that a fair few of the carefully thinking and honourably-living people posting in this thread are in fact not Sikhs. That's a tall claim and you need to substantiate it.

Oh and you can take the comments and assumptions you made about me and kindly, dear sir, sit on them. :wah:


In my post I had said that anybody not believing in birth,death and rebirth cycle is Not a Sikh. I stand by it.
I did not made any personal remarks on any body. I made it clear that the belief of death is end for ever is the belief of Muslims and Christians. Would you call a man to be a Muslim if he believes in idolatry? No. Same way one who do not believe in Gurbani is NO SIKH.
Your writing implies that you are criticizing me as 'loud mouth' instead of questioning me with due politeness about the veracity of my contention. Whatever we say or do 'Boomerangs' back.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
8,194
54
In my post I had said that anybody not believing in birth,death and rebirth cycle is Not a Sikh. I stand by it.

yes, we know, the question is who gave you authority to interpretate Bani in the way you have, and then impose it on the rest of us

I did not made any personal remarks on any body

so what exactly is "Your writing smacks of ill breeding" that sounds pretty personal to me
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
The goal is to discuss issues. The issue of who is a Sikh again has surfaced. The request to discuss it by using Gurbani is looking at an issue. The argument needs to stick to that issue. Please do not resort to discussing personalities, as in , "you sound like this" or "you are a ......" Thank you.

If not I will have to start deleting.
 

japjisahib04

Mentor
SPNer
Jan 22, 2005
822
1,294
kuwait
SUKHMANI SAHIB SHALOKA NO.19, ASHTPADI NO.4. GURU ARJUN DEV JI SAYS "THE SERVICE OF THE LORD AND THE SERVICE OF A GOOD MAN BREAKS THE BONDAGE OF BIRTH AND DEATH, AND ONE ATTAINS TO HAPPINESS..... HE TAKES THE NAME OF THE ONE AND STRINGS IT IN HIS HEART AND THEN HE WILL NOT BE SWEPT AGAIN INTO BIRTH. ( This entire translation is taken from THE GOSPEL OF THE GURU GRANTH SAHIB by Duncan Greenlees, M.A.(Oxon).

Dear Palaingtha

Above interpretation and translation was the perspective of Duncan Greenlees. Shall we follow it blindly or use our own divine discriminatory intellect. By blindly following others perspective we disrespect or ignore guru vaak, 'ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਮੈ ਸੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਨਾਉ ਬਿਬੇਕi' - I have found out the technique of understanding gurbani i.e. divine discriminatory intellect. SGGS.793. In order to prove or win our point it is not wise that we simply pick the pankti out of context, remain in duality ourselves and mislead others too.

Let us first understand what is ashtpadi. Ashtpadi literally means 8 Shabads (Padhs) put together. All 24 Ashtpadis have 24 themes which are given in the Saloks in the beginning of each, and the 7,8 Shabad of each ashtpadhi expand that idea further. Hence, it is a must for us to focus on the Salok in the beginning of each Ashtspadi because that is the main theme; the central idea for us to understand, so that the Ashtpadi could be understood in the right manner. When we follow this technique it will be easy for us to decode the meaning of this sabd. In this sloka, guru sahib is not referring about our next birth but is concerned about the present time.

Now let us read the pankti, 'ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਜਨੁ ਸਾਚਾ ॥ ਜਨਮਿ ਮਰੈ ਸੋ ਕਾਚੋ ਕਾਚਾ ॥ ਆਵਾ ਗਵਨੁ ਮਿਟੈ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੇਵ ॥ ਆਪੁ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਸਰਨਿ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ॥ SGGS.288.13. By following kachi baani we remain in the bondage of duality. In this sabd guru sahib is trying to say that duality is janam marai and not physical death. Further the definition of janam marai is further clear from the pankti aakhan jeevan visrai mar jao - is guru sahib talking about physical death or spiritual death in this pankti. Please look closely and decide yourselves. Similarly, aava gavan is again spiritual death. Let us check from gurbani itself, ' ਪਰ ਧਨ ਪਰ ਤਨ ਪਰ ਤੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਪਰ ਅਪਬਾਦੁ ਨ ਛੂਟੈ ॥ ਆਵਾ ਗਵਨੁ ਹੋਤੁ ਹੈ ਫੁਨਿ ਫੁਨਿ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਤੂਟੈ ॥੨॥ by keeping an eye on others wealth or conspiring to capture others wealth, every moment I die and am reborn and yell like a dog or bite like a snake, am arrogant like lion, and this cycle is not coming to an end. I don't expect whether people judge me as good or bad but when I am not at peace within myself, I don't take it like living but dead. So as per gurbani this aava gavan - alleged reincarnation is spiritual death or living and not physical death.

I hope I am able to clarify. By looking at seventh and eight stanza you will see how guru sahib is trying to expand the astpandhi.

best regards
sahni
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
I have tried to avoid deletions. So far nothing you, palaingtha ji, have written has been deleted. This time I am forced to delete your previous comments. Personal arguments with and about individual members cannot continue here or other threads. It disrupts the flow of the discussion and takes the focus away from the topic and puts the focus on complaints. After that it takes forever to get the discussion back on track.

A thread has been created exactly for the purpose of debating literal and/or supernatural translations of SGGS with Harry Haller ji at this link http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/40747-the-great-imp-debate.html


Let me thank japjisahibji for returning the thread to a discussion of Gurbani and the relevant issues.
 
Last edited:

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
In my post I had said that anybody not believing in birth,death and rebirth cycle is Not a Sikh. I stand by it.
I did not made any personal remarks on any body. I made it clear that the belief of death is end for ever is the belief of Muslims and Christians. Would you call a man to be a Muslim if he believes in idolatry? No. Same way one who do not believe in Gurbani is NO SIKH.
Your writing implies that you are criticizing me as 'loud mouth' instead of questioning me with due politeness about the veracity of my contention. Whatever we say or do 'Boomerangs' back.

Palaingtha ji,

Guru Fateh.

First of all that is a bold statement laced with arrogance which is not a Sikhi trait I am afraid.

Secondly, you are also wrong about what Gurbani says regarding reincarnation. Our Gurus acknowledged this belief from Hinduism but never accepted it as a Sikhi way of life. Acknowledgement is not acceptance. The proof is in every single Shabad in the SGGS that talks about reincarnation. The same Shabad also mentions that if one follows the Sikhi way, one can get of this silly belief. Silly is my addition.

So, I would suggest that you re-study the Gurbani that made you claim something that is not true according to Gurbani.

Lastly, a Sikh is a student, a seeker, a learner. Therefore, it is a journey that never stops for anyone and everyone.

Many people who visit this forum may not look like Sikhs as some would claim but are Sikhs to the core. They question, investigate and learn. These are the best traits a Sikh can have. Ishna ji is one of many of them who come and participate here with an open heart.

So, judging who is a Sikh or not is not on any 'Sikh' to declare that. People in Abrahamic and other dogmatic religions do that. A Sikh does not. Let's leave that part to Ik Ong kaar just like the Gurbani says: Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koyee.

All are children of One Source. No one is sans that.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: If you want to post any Shabads here regarding your false claim, please feel free to do that but I have one request to make. Please share your own understanding with us besides the literal translations that at many times are wrong and misleading.
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Feb 20, 2012
1,644
1,643
When BHATS said wah guru they meant to praise the guru of that time. They were not praising the God. After the Khalsa was created many Sikhs started praising Gobind Singh and thats when they said wahe-guru. But when Gobibd Singh created Khalsa he sait is was Akal's foj. He did not say wahegur's foj.

So how can I believe wahegur as as God? that was the question asked. I am sorry if I am going out of the way
Maybe the SPN just looking for YES or NO?

Satnaam Seeker Ji,

First of all only in the world of duality is there "I" and "other". When people say Waheguru they don't (or shouldn't) be meaning the physical body that once was....there is only one and always will be one.

The bani is the guru, and the guru is the bani, the shabad roop of god, that flows through all molicules of creation, creating, sustaining and destroying... the WORD that jesus talked of...this is the Guru...NOT THE PHYSICAL MAN.

When i say WaheGuru i am focussing on the creator lord..the source of everything...that had fully manifest in previous guru's...that exists within us all.

Whilst my diaan \ attention \ focus is on the external world, i have the physical manifestation of this SHABAD/WORD (SGGS Ji) to refer to and guide me.

Meditating on this physical manifestation of the Shabad guides my diaan \ attention \ focus within me to the internal existance.

Do not underestimate the physical manifestion of the formless Shabad :) which is a mistake that i often
made

Powered by love and devotion...meditating on the physical manifestation of gurbani and also living it in daily life...the internal Shabad Guru becomes known.

This internal Shabad Guru / WORD will take our consciousness back to it's source and a permanant connection will be formed.

Waheguru = the formless, the ever existing, unchanging and guiding force.

Just my thoughts Ji on my current understanding and experience. god Bless on your journey ji
 
Last edited:

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Feb 20, 2012
1,644
1,643
Palaingtha ji,

Guru Fateh.

First of all that is a bold statement laced with arrogance which is not a Sikhi trait I am afraid.

Secondly, you are also wrong about what Gurbani says regarding reincarnation. Our Gurus acknowledged this belief from Hinduism but never accepted it as a Sikhi way of life. Acknowledgement is not acceptance. The proof is in every single Shabad in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that talks about reincarnation. The same Shabad also mentions that if one follows the Sikhi way, one can get of this silly belief. Silly is my addition.

So, I would suggest that you re-study the Gurbani that made you claim something that is not true according to Gurbani.

Lastly, a Sikh is a student, a seeker, a learner. Therefore, it is a journey that never stops for anyone and everyone.

Many people who visit this forum may not look like Sikhs as some would claim but are Sikhs to the core. They question, investigate and learn. These are the best traits a Sikh can have. Ishna ji is one of many of them who come and participate here with an open heart.

So, judging who is a Sikh or not is not on any 'Sikh' to declare that. People in Abrahamic and other dogmatic religions do that. A Sikh does not. Let's leave that part to Ik Ong kaar just like the Gurbani says: Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koyee.

All are children of One Source. No one is sans that.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: If you want to post any Shabads here regarding your false claim, please feel free to do that but I have one request to make. Please share your own understanding with us besides the literal translations that at many times are wrong and misleading.


all this talk amongst us "you are wrong," "you should re-strudy"
Truth is none of us really know what is right and what is wrong until we experience it for ourselves through our Simran and inner journey towards god.

Gurbani tells us that we shouldnt worry about past lives (if they happened) or any potential future lives (if they happen) and put an end to it all by living in the present and returning home in this present life....simran, Seva is the cure for all of these mental illnesses.

As Harry Ji says...We are Sikh...and as such even if we have studied gurbani over and over and we think we know it all, we don;t actually know anything until we experience it. whilst being sikh we will make mistakes, hit roadblocks...believe one thing, then change our minds...and that is what being a sikh is...until all is revealed to us through our journey home...and then my friends we become true khalsa's.

God Bless ji
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
all this talk amongst us "you are wrong," "you should re-strudy"
Truth is none of us really know what is right and what is wrong until we experience it for ourselves through our Simran and inner journey towards god.

Gurbani tells us that we shouldnt worry about past lives (if they happened) or any potential future lives (if they happen) and put an end to it all by living in the present and returning home in this present life....simran, Seva is the cure for all of these mental illnesses.

As Harry Ji says...We are Sikh...and as such even if we have studied gurbani over and over and we think we know it all, we don;t actually know anything until we experience it. whilst being sikh we will make mistakes, hit roadblocks...believe one thing, then change our minds...and that is what being a sikh is...until all is revealed to us through our journey home...and then my friends we become true khalsa's.

God Bless ji

Chaz ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am sorry to upset you but your post has nothing to do with what my post is about to Palaingatha ji. I hope you have read others' posts before mine where some have told others that they are not Sikhs. Hence, I was compelled to share my thought.

I think you did not read my post in context. We are wrong many times as Sikhs about what the Gurbani says. That is what the word Sikh means which urges us to correct ourselves when and where the situation arises. Hence, re-studying of Gurbani is a must for us otherwise Nitnem would be a futile mechanically parroting mere ritual.

No one is talking about Truth here but what the Gurbani says and how it is wrongly interpreted with one liners or two.

Having said that, I agree with what you said.I have been advocating the same in my posts where ever needed.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:
Top