• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Atheism Do You Believe In Waheguru

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
No one said anything about inventing or manipulating gurbani here.
It's incorporating gurbani into your breathing !
What is wrong with that ???

Maybe you should try it ???

Luckysingh ji (others also welcome to reply)

I did try it.

Long ago before burrowing a channel in my life directly to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I knew a little, more than a little, about Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, and was actively involved in yoga cum mantras from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

This period in my life lasted a little over a year. There was an event that forced a choice between making a commitment to Sikhism OR dabbling in yoga - a decision about making a commitment is exactly what it was.

I attended a large yoga gathering, organized by 3HO Sikhs, in New York city. One of the lengthy asanas was performed while chanting "Aad Gureh Nameh. Jugaad Gureh Nameh. Sat Gureh Nameh. Sri Guru Dev Nameh." I stopped in the middle with a jerk. People to each side, my partner, not happy with me because my actions were stopping the "flow of spiritual energy" from one person to the next.

I got up, apologized, found my shoes, left and walked 20 blocks back to my hotel in tears. i walked to work off my strong emotions.

My problem? We were chanting very sacred words to a sacred hymn in a sacred granth who is Guru, and no one seemed to notice or care. There were many others, chants and asanas, that I had practiced in the past. Only this time the dismay hit me like a sudden blow of a hammer.

Now this is an open question. Why was I dismayed and with such sudden force?

Another open question. Why do some of the panth who witness the practice of chants and asanas in the main darshan of their gurdwaras become angry?

p/s Organizers charged $375.00 US for the experience. There were scores of people there.
 
Last edited:

Inderjeet Kaur

Writer
SPNer
Oct 13, 2011
869
1,765
Seattle, Washington, USA
Gyani Jarnail Singh is right it is an adjective not noun.
Ravneet claim it is a Mantra to be recited. With reciting 4 organd can work in harmony. It is also a ship if we recite it we can go across the sea.(heaven)

Nanak also said told his followers to do the simran (recite) of NAAM,Shabad, Mantar.
But Nanak for got to tell us what is that Mantar or naam is and how to recite,(simran)

None of the guru told us to recite Waheguru. I know it is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in BHAT’s bani. If you read that properly you can now why the BHAT recited the Waheguru word. It is not a Mantar or Shabad or Naam.

Guru Nanak did not forget. If he didn't tell us explicitly, there is a good reason. Perhaps it is for us to discover for ourselves.
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 3, 2011
1,634
2,758
Vancouver
Luckysingh ji (others also welcome to reply)

I did try it.

Long ago before burrowing a channel in my life directly to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I knew a little, more than a little, about Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, and was actively involved in yoga cum mantras from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

This period in my life lasted a little over a year. There was an event that forced a choice between making a commitment to Sikhism OR dabbling in yoga - a decision about making a commitment is exactly what it was.

I attended a large yoga gathering, organized by 3HO Sikhs, in New York city. One of the lengthy asanas was performed while chanting "Aad Gureh Nameh. Jugaad Gureh Nameh. Sat Gureh Nameh. Sri Guru Dev Nameh." I stopped in the middle with a jerk. People to each side, my partner, not happy with me because my actions were stopping the "flow of spiritual energy" from one person to the next.

I got up, apologized, found my shoes, left and walked 20 blocks back to my hotel in tears. i walked to work off my strong emotions.

My problem? We were chanting very sacred words to a sacred hymn in a sacred granth who is Guru, and no one seemed to notice or care. There were many others, chants and asanas, that I had practiced in the past. Only this time the dismay hit me like a sudden blow of a hammer.

Now this is an open question. Why was I dismayed and with such sudden force?

Another open question. Why do some of the panth who witness the practice of chants and asanas in the main darshan of their gurdwaras become angry?

p/s Organizers charged $375.00 US for the experience. There were scores of people there.


Actually, I wasn't talking about yoga at all. I was talking about 'waheguru' simran, which I believe was what Ravneetji was discussing earlier.
I actually see a huge difference in this and the yoga where gurbani is used. You may or may not remember, that I have actively started kundalini yoga classes a few weeks ago.

It's still early days for me to give a full witnessed account, but it is quite clear that it is NOT gurmat !!
Saying this, I can't say it is manmat either, but I can't have it crossing over into my spiritual progress in sikhi, since there is no relationship !!
I perceive it as an activity of general well being using focus of mind, meditation and postures, just like many of the other meditative yogas out there.
For those that have experienced simran, I can clearly say that you won't get the same anand as you can in simran, simply because it is not gurmat in my opinion.

Adminji, I clearly understand your feeling and comment above with reference to ''Aad Gurey namay'' shabad, believe me !
During my first lesson, when I first came across it when reciting this with some yogic posture, I had this real strange feeling !!
It was the feeling when one questions themselves and thinks 'is this blasphemy ?, or is this wrong because it just didn't feel right.
In front of me were two young white women, the sort that I would label as ''Californian beach girls''-(because these are women that take great care of their body and shape to always be looking good, slim and slender)
Now, obviously they are into the yoga class purely for the relaxation and well being.
Looking at these two, I thought to myself ''do they really know who actually said this and what that Guruji meant to all Sikhs ??''

I felt a little confused and may be upset because I had a better idea of what Guru Arjan Dev ji was about !!
Then, I thought to myself '' Is this really what Guruji would have expected to be happening to these uttered shabads of his ??''
Suddenly, my answer came to me and left me smiling with envy and pride for Guruji.
I thought we may be uttering Guruji's aad gureh namay shabad whilst sitting in this yogic posture and Guruji would probably see me and be smiling since Guruji probably uttered this very shabad himself whilst sat in his yoga position on the tathi tavi or hot plate!!!
That is the True Yoga, that I am nowhere in reach of.

Just the thought and vision of Guru Arjan Dev ji looking at me and smiling whilst I try and sit in a yogic position, gave me a feeling of comfort.
Because, only he could have demonstrated the True Yoga for any yogic out there, by sitting in his yogic position on a hot plate whilst hot sand was poured over him.

I enjoy the yoga as part of my physical well being, as I have to be involved with spinal posture activities due to the very high numbers of broken and fractured vertebrae I have in my back.
I can't understand how so many people started with this yoga and continued to become Sikhs, thinking that it was part of Sikhism !!
As a Sikh, I don't see any association at all, except for the gurmantars and shabads that the master Yogi Bhajan introduced misleadingly !
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,706
14,381
75
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
GURMATT Vs MANMATT. its like SUN..DAY...and NIGHT..DARKNESS.
Anything thats GURMATT then CANNOT be MANMATT and vice versa...
Day is day and Night is Night...Lucky Singh says that Kundli Yoga is NOT Gurmatt and then says..its NOT Manmatt either !!

Once upon a Time..this was also used..as a LOOPHOLE...vis a vis story of HARNAKSH !! First the Shivji grants a BOON...cant be killed by animal or human..cant be killed outdoors or indoors..cant be killed at night or Day time...SO WHAT TO DO ?? make a HARNAKASH...Half man half Lion....day.Night barrier..declare its GREY TIME just between sun set and night...next barrier..outdoor-indoor..declare its on the DEHLEEZ - the DOORWAY !!..and there you have it the PERFECT LOOPHOLE..all barriers crossed...the Harnaksh half man half beast, killed his opponent during the time of neither Day or Night, in the middle of the doorway so he is neither out nor IN...!!!

THOUSANDS of SUCH "LOOPHOLES" ABOUND in Bippar literature...the Brahmin is adept at creating these...

GURBANI...SGGS...is NOT like that at all....GURMATT is Always GURMATT. PERIOD. Manmatt is always manmatt.period. NO GREY areas..no doorways....no half man half beats etc etc.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,706
14,381
75
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
And by the way..the BHATTS in SGGS are NOT using WAHEGURU as a NOUN..Proper Name..for an ENTITY called the CREATOR...they are using the word as an ADJECTIVE to DESCRIBE the FIVE GURUS...Guru Nanak ji, Guru Angad Ji, Guru Amardass Ji Guru Ramdass Ji and Guru ARJUN JI. No way anyone can justify an ADJECTIVE to be NOUN in that context.
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
We are all individuals and one apple may taste better or worse to the other person.
If reciting 'waheguru' with full dhian can take away your headache and feeling of misery, then good for you and well done !
It's always better than popping a pill !!!


I am well aware that simran and meditation can help people deal with physical symptoms of pain, although this is more to do with diverting the focus away from the pain and not the magic of a gurmantar.
Because if it was just the magic of the gurmantar, then that would work without any involvement of focus !

Lucky Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

This is the reason all the derawalas have their "magic words" that they tell their snake oil buyers to chant it so many times to get rid of their aliments .

Radasoamis and others have similar magic words that they give their followers to chant to cure all the ills. Many religions/cults/sects do the same.

If I take your "reasoning" a bit further in a nonsensical manner then all the potential Playmates must be chanting Hugh...Hugh...Hugh.

Gurbani is the food for soul, which needs to be chewed like the old saying goes, "Chew your food until it becomes soup". This is the way we can benefit from all the nutrients as you mentioned in the other thread.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

ravneet_sb

Writer
SPNer
Nov 5, 2010
864
326
52
So, ravneet_sb Ji,
Don't you think you should be spending more time on strengthening your scriptural understanding than prescribing the 'Wa he gu ru air meditation' stuff?
Sorry, I'm no one to judge you, but you see stating such things can lead to harmful spiritual consequences. Someone somewhere reading this thread may take home a wrong message.
Gurbani is far beyond breathing exercises, it means a daily exercise of good character and virtues.
Sorry if I may sound harsh.....

Sat Sri Akaal,

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

These contents are through personal experience and are no way propagation of false hood or false religion, one may reject, accept or delete the contents.

Wa He Gu RU Chant practice is taught, done and propagated in most of Sikh religious places in Chandigarh, TV Channels propagating sikhism.

Hope we are praising repeatedly but nothing else and this is the only thing required, without realisation of shabad "GURU" or is it "Karam Kand"

Doing any practise without meaning, its just like getting or giving false praise
to someone to get some work done through or taunt.

or

it seems

One has lost the relation between

theory and practise.

Life of "word" in this "world" comes with union of

"Spirit" and "Soul"

"Matter" and "Vibration"

"Theory" and "Practise"

"Vision" and "Imagination"

or

there is a different dimension to practice which can not be realised by just being theoretical.

Accepted that I have not read "Granth Sahib Ji" so version from learned people from Granth Sahib is always accepted and thanked for, got the missing dimensions.

One who eat apple enjoy it,

just reading, writting, listening, speaking is different.

Enjoy bliss by eating and sharing, even rejection is OK.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahefuri Ji Ki Fateh
 
Last edited:

ravneet_sb

Writer
SPNer
Nov 5, 2010
864
326
52
Sat Sri Akaal,

Do You Believe in Waheguru

Its require to re focus one's attention on topic

Theoretically it means

Do "One believes in praise of GURU".

or it has some different dimension.
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 3, 2011
1,634
2,758
Vancouver
Day is day and Night is Night...Lucky Singh says that Kundli Yoga is NOT Gurmatt and then says..its NOT Manmatt either !!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/atheism/40690-do-you-believe-in-waheguru-10.html#post184178

I was careful to not label it manmatt, as why would I claim it is anti-gurmat ?
I am just a manmukh that is learning to recognize gurmat, but I don't feel I have the authority to judge and label otherwise.

To me, just as playing soccer is neither gurmat or manmatt, then neither is this yoga !

Infact, I stated that I don't see how sikhi comes into the practice, But if you bring it in and attach it to such activity, then that is clearly manmat.
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 3, 2011
1,634
2,758
Vancouver
Lucky Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

This is the reason all the derawalas have their "magic words" that they tell their snake oil buyers to chant it so many times to get rid of their aliments .

Radasoamis and others have similar magic words that they give their followers to chant to cure all the ills. Many religions/cults/sects do the same.

If I take your "reasoning" a bit further in a nonsensical manner then all the potential Playmates must be chanting Hugh...Hugh...Hugh.

Gurbani is the food for soul, which needs to be chewed like the old saying goes, "Chew your food until it becomes soup". This is the way we can benefit from all the nutrients as you mentioned in the other thread.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

I think you misunderstood my post because i'm not endorsing the magic of any gurmantar.

I understand that there is a huge difference between meditation, simran and simple chanting.
 

ravneet_sb

Writer
SPNer
Nov 5, 2010
864
326
52
Sat Sri Akaal,

WORD is precious in this world

Each word which came in existence has immense power beyond realization.

But have the concept what they do.

All positive and negative emotions are created by own self,

And manmat says,

(all positive is my and mine

and all negatives are you and yours)

Without realising it only ONE self which works

Yes,
I am chanting Wa He Gu Ru, NAAM or WORD, some may have different NAAM shields, or so strong in virtues, negativity does't come at all.

this is shield of Negative Perceptions for my MIND, to give me strength for work.

when ever negative thought ***** my mind plane, to nip the evil in the bud,

so that it shall not for expression or yield negative action.

have to make it more strong

still not so strong to totally null it, one has to accept NATURE.

I believe in "Waheguru"

If one understands and practice SELF BALANCE of emotions, by chanting, by yoga, or either way.

Its easy to get along with family, work place, society.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 
Last edited:

japjisahib04

Mentor
SPNer
Jan 22, 2005
822
1,294
kuwait
Why not we commercialize this aura and meditation and save billions of dollars, there will be no need for Police, army and requirement of any kirat karni. Everything will be automatic. Where are we heading?

Guru sahib while dismissing these belief have clearly stated, ' ਕੋਈ ਮੁਗਲੁ ਨ ਹੋਆ ਅੰਧਾ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਰਚਾ ਲਾਇਆ ॥੪॥ koey moghal n andha hova SGGS.418. In contradiction to the general belief which propagate. work is worship, Gurmat tells us, 'work is not worship' but 'work as worship' then only we will be saved from bhavjal.

Best regards
sahni
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,706
14,381
75
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
Beautifully said again as usual Sahni ji...but then again..the "Aura" of an aura..sounds too good to just discard as utter RUBBISH...its NOT only "beggars and {censored}" who simply LOVE to dig through garbage Dumps..many SIKHS also love to go through the RUBBISH BIN OF GURU SAHIB....and these lovers of "Vedic?? whatever that came before sikhism etc etc.. recyclable items"..keep on dragging pieces of such rubbish back into "sikhism"...
I must admit almost all PAINTERS can see this aura..thats why pick any painting of a holy person and there is the Aura floating around his head...those painters must have different eyes...
 

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

Top