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Atheism Do You Believe In Waheguru

chazSingh

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Chaz ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am sorry to upset you but your post has nothing to do with what my post is about to Palaingatha ji. I hope you have read others' posts before mine where some have told others that they are not Sikhs. Hence, I was compelled to share my thought.

I think you did not read my post in context. We are wrong many times as Sikhs about what the Gurbani says. That is what the word Sikh means which urges us to correct ourselves when and where the situation arises. Hence, re-studying of Gurbani is a must for us otherwise Nitnem would be a futile mechanically parroting mere ritual.

No one is talking about Truth here but what the Gurbani says and how it is wrongly interpreted with one liners or two.

Having said that, I agree with what you said.I have been advocating the same in my posts where ever needed.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Satnaam ji,

I'm sorry of it came across like i was upset at what you wrote. I had read many of the posts prior to yours, and all i noticed was people telling each other who is wrong and who is right (i do this myself sometimes and it becomes an ego fueling habit)

one thing i've realised...no matter how many books i;ve read, how many interpretations i've read of gurbani...nothing compares to experiencing some of the things that gurbani talks of and realising it for oneself.

lets say to each other..."hey...you think re-incarnation exists"..."hey you think that it doesn't exist" ... "now lets go and find out what is the TRUTH"
Lets help each other do amrit vela...lets help each other fight off the mind that tells us we can't do this and that....lets uplift each other in the HERE and NOW.

so now another debate starts...what is true amrit vela? :)
i say, try your simran during the day and try it during the early morning hours and see what works best for you. I tried both...both were amazing, I still do both, but my life changed when i started doing the early morning hours...it was out of this world!.

god bless all ji.
 

ravneet_sb

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Sat Sri Akaal,

Human can be "Mrit" who can die or change form
Word is "Amrit" immortal or has not changed form since existence

When one "Surat" meets with "Shabad" its "AMRIT" vela.

For normal being after getting on to sleep

Sleep comes in three stages

Conscious sleep, 2 to 3 hours conscious mind is 100% relaxed depending on daily routine
After that relax one mind stoke is on subconscious mind and further during deep sleep
mind stoke is on unconscious mind, its deep sound sleep, but at that moment mind is close to higher relaxation.

During deep sleep, body is in interaction with unconscious mind, so if during that time if someone wakes up,
learning may goes directly to unconscious mind,

but Amrit Vela is when one's unconscious mind gets connected with "Shabad" or "Amrit"

it may be any relaxed moment.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 

Tejwant Singh

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Satnaam ji,

I'm sorry of it came across like i was upset at what you wrote. I had read many of the posts prior to yours, and all i noticed was people telling each other who is wrong and who is right (i do this myself sometimes and it becomes an ego fueling habit)

one thing i've realised...no matter how many books i;ve read, how many interpretations i've read of gurbani...nothing compares to experiencing some of the things that gurbani talks of and realising it for oneself.

lets say to each other..."hey...you think re-incarnation exists"..."hey you think that it doesn't exist" ... "now lets go and find out what is the TRUTH"
Lets help each other do amrit vela...lets help each other fight off the mind that tells us we can't do this and that....lets uplift each other in the HERE and NOW.

so now another debate starts...what is true amrit vela? :)
i say, try your simran during the day and try it during the early morning hours and see what works best for you. I tried both...both were amazing, I still do both, but my life changed when i started doing the early morning hours...it was out of this world!.

god bless all ji.


Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Sorry to say again but I do not find anything in your post that is related to what I mentioned in mine.

Let's leave it there.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

chazSingh

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Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Sorry to say again but I do not find anything in your post that is related to what I mentioned in mine.

Let's leave it there.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Satnaam Ji,

My point was, some members were adamant that reincarnation is the truth and were forcing this belief, and your reply was saying that it is false belief...these opinions just go around in circles, and it must be confusing for many readers.

I continued that for the many other readers that want to find out for themselves, that one must sometimes step back from asserting opinions as the absolute truth and go seek (not through continuous study of literature) but to do what Guru Nanak Dev Ji said and to awaken at Amrit vela and do Simran, meditation and contemplation....all answers eventually get revealed this way...this one simple truth and effort and all Gurbani starts to reveal itself...bit by bit

The above information is for other readers... I'm sure, looking at the very useful information on your posts, that your journey is fruitful already ji.

god bless
 

Luckysingh

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Satnaam Ji,

My point was, some members were adamant that reincarnation is the truth and were forcing this belief, and your reply was saying that it is false belief...these opinions just go around in circles, and it must be confusing for many readers.

I continued that for the many other readers that want to find out for themselves, that one must sometimes step back from asserting opinions as the absolute truth and go seek (not through continuous study of literature) but to do what Guru Nanak Dev Ji said and to awaken at Amrit vela and do Simran, meditation and contemplation....all answers eventually get revealed this way...this one simple truth and effort and all Gurbani starts to reveal itself...bit by bit

The above information is for other readers... I'm sure, looking at the very useful information on your posts, that your journey is fruitful already ji.

god bless


I agree !!
Because when gurbani and the word of his shabad reveals itself, then you just ''know''.
You also know that there is no point arguing about it or trying to define the truth.

I am now a very strong believer that ALL the answers can be found within.
I mean, the answers and the word of the shabad was revealed to Guru Nanak ji. He then gave us that same shabad guru for us to reveal it to ourselves.

Get up early, meditate, simran and cleanse your inner self. It's because we have so much clogged up rubbish within ourselves that we don't even realize what we truly are.
Once you can clear this clutter in the mind, then you begin to FIND your Real self. Once you have found yourself, then the shabad begins to reveal itself.

I am pretty certain that if someone is trying to 'realize God' or get that 'God realization', then it can't happen unless you FIND yourself first !!

I'm sure some of you understand what I mean !
 

Harkiran Kaur

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Chaz Ji,

Once again you and I think so much alike!!

For me, once I had ONE realization, everything else made sense. Reincarnation? No reincarnation? Didn't matter because I knew that everything was really ONE so in sense both are right, and both are wrong... the questions are really inconsequential because there is only ONE thing in existence and Creator = Creation. (based on my experiences) The basis of the Universe is not matter... and consciousness is not an emergent property of the complexity of matter. In fact, I know (through my experiences) that consciousness IS the basis of the Universe and matter arises out of consciousness. In that way, space / time / matter really ARE illusion... and not just in a metaphorical sense. Everything in SGGS just makes sense without needing to all be poetic hidden meanings. The Universe is not just some unconscious accident that happened out of nothing, with a very structured set of rules that somehow wrote themselves... 'Waheguru Ji' is not (to me) merely some metaphorical word to describe the scientific rules that govern the Universe or 'nature'. To me, the ultimate truth is not the Universe, it's not the science that governs the Universe.... to me the Universe, everything in it, and the Creator are in fact ONE in the same. So the ultimate truth is Creator, which is pure consciousness.

Of course, I can never show someone what I was shown through those experiences, and I can never give someone the experiences I have had spiritually. People are all in different phases of spiritual growth. And many are in the 'material' and scientific and atheistic phase... and that's perfectly fine because as Sikhs we are encouraged to 'seek' and to learn, and part of learning is being weary of things and not blindly accepting. I think if I didn't have those experiences I might even lean towards atheism and skepticism myself. However, I can never take back those experiences now that I have had them. And anyone who has had similar experiences can tell you (many people dismiss what I have experienced as dreams, or hallucinations etc) but anyone who has had similar experiences will tell you that during them, you somehow feel more awake than you ever did in your whole life, and you just KNOW deep within that they were real... there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever.

Those experiences btw happened long before I actually found Sikhi... in fact, they ultimately led me to the Sikh faith. Because Sikhism urges people to not just blindly follow ritual etc, it teaches you to go for actual experience yourself and gives you the tools to do so. That's why I was so attracted to becoming Sikh.

Anyway to answer the OP. I believe (know) in Waheguru Ji. I believe (know) in Waheguru Ji as Creator... as the ONE. And I believe that Waheguru Ji IS the ONE and ONLY ultimate / universal ONE consciousness / truth of existence.

"Creation was born of the light, and the light is in the creation"





Satnaam Ji,

My point was, some members were adamant that reincarnation is the truth and were forcing this belief, and your reply was saying that it is false belief...these opinions just go around in circles, and it must be confusing for many readers.

I continued that for the many other readers that want to find out for themselves, that one must sometimes step back from asserting opinions as the absolute truth and go seek (not through continuous study of literature) but to do what Guru Nanak Dev Ji said and to awaken at Amrit vela and do Simran, meditation and contemplation....all answers eventually get revealed this way...this one simple truth and effort and all Gurbani starts to reveal itself...bit by bit

The above information is for other readers... I'm sure, looking at the very useful information on your posts, that your journey is fruitful already ji.

god bless
 

palaingtha

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akiva ji

I often run that same issue across my consciousness. Here is the problem. There is no "mainstream." There are however schools of thought, sampardyan. Two points to bring once again to the attention of all.

The cycles of death and rebirth are tied historically, through vedic texts, to the caste system. They are the justification for it.

The passages from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that seem to support reincarnation, on careful scrutiny, can also be read a different way.

I can reload once again the pdf file from Sikh Review that explores the topics above in exacting detail along with other treatises from other scholar sites. One place to take a look is the Darpan of Professor Sahib Singh, which I know you have at your fingertips.

And yes there are other sources which insist on a different understanding. However these are associated with Nirmala influences, which are definitely themselves influenced by philosophies rising in Benares.


Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not a bull with big horns that one can take hold of and turn and twist the way he likes. The SGGS is very clear on its expositions and no duality in meaning can be expected. Our Gurus have fearlessly said what they believed and they were not subject to any external forces. Then why they would camouflage their Bani. Prof. Sahib Singh's Sri Guru Granth Sahib Darpan is an authentic version of translations of Gurbani. Have no doubts!
 

spnadmin

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Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not a bull with big horns that one can take hold of and turn and twist the way he likes. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is very clear on its expositions and no duality in meaning can be expected. Our Gurus have fearlessly said what they believed and they were not subject to any external forces. Then why they would camouflage their Bani. Prof. Sahib Singh's Sri Guru Granth Sahib Darpan is an authentic version of translations of Gurbani. Have no doubts!

Palaingtha ji

Kabir ji says

Ang 482
ਹਮ ਗੋਰੂ ਤੁਮ ਗੁਆਰ ਗੁਸਾਈ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਰਖਵਾਰੇ ॥
Ham gorū ṯum gu▫ār gusā▫ī janam janam rakẖvāre.
I am a cow, and You are the herdsman, the Sustainer of the World. You are my Saving Grace, lifetime after lifetime.

Either Kabir ji is having an identity crisis in this pankti, and believes he is a cow, or he is using a metaphor. What is your pick?

If you read the entire sloka, does Kabir ji remain a cow and "tum" remain a herdsman?

All pronouns. like "tum/you," refer to something else that is not given directly in language spoken or written. A listener/reader has to figure "tum" out. How do you figure the meaning of "tum" without going beyond its literal meaning?

What does Professor Sahib Singh have to say about this tuk?

How close is the translation I have quoted with the tuk? Can it be improved?

Just as we should not be judging who is a Sikh and who is not, we should not - based on our own imaginations - throw the word "duality" around with abandon.

Here is a tuk I have always loved to think about.

Ang 265
ਕਾਮਧੇਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਮ ॥
Kāmḏẖen har har guṇ gām.
The Khaamadhayn, the cow of miraculous powers, is the singing of the Glory of the Lord's Name, Har, Har.

I have heard the expression "sacred cow." Where can I find, make contact with, the miraculous and musically talented Khaamadhayn? ([Literally, Wish-Fulfilling) Please anyone hurry to tell me. But please read its context in the Ashtapadee.

There may be hundreds of verses in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that require us to take hold with our bibek and figure out what the meaning is beyond the literal words themselves. Duality is not the result of such an effort. The example I have given you is an easy one.
 
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chazSingh

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Chaz Ji,

Once again you and I think so much alike!!

For me, once I had ONE realization, everything else made sense. Reincarnation? No reincarnation? Didn't matter because I knew that everything was really ONE so in sense both are right, and both are wrong... the questions are really inconsequential because there is only ONE thing in existence and Creator = Creation. (based on my experiences) The basis of the Universe is not matter... and consciousness is not an emergent property of the complexity of matter. In fact, I know (through my experiences) that consciousness IS the basis of the Universe and matter arises out of consciousness. In that way, space / time / matter really ARE illusion... and not just in a metaphorical sense. Everything in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji just makes sense without needing to all be poetic hidden meanings. The Universe is not just some unconscious accident that happened out of nothing, with a very structured set of rules that somehow wrote themselves... 'Waheguru Ji' is not (to me) merely some metaphorical word to describe the scientific rules that govern the Universe or 'nature'. To me, the ultimate truth is not the Universe, it's not the science that governs the Universe.... to me the Universe, everything in it, and the Creator are in fact ONE in the same. So the ultimate truth is Creator, which is pure consciousness.

Of course, I can never show someone what I was shown through those experiences, and I can never give someone the experiences I have had spiritually. People are all in different phases of spiritual growth. And many are in the 'material' and scientific and atheistic phase... and that's perfectly fine because as Sikhs we are encouraged to 'seek' and to learn, and part of learning is being weary of things and not blindly accepting. I think if I didn't have those experiences I might even lean towards atheism and skepticism myself. However, I can never take back those experiences now that I have had them. And anyone who has had similar experiences can tell you (many people dismiss what I have experienced as dreams, or hallucinations etc) but anyone who has had similar experiences will tell you that during them, you somehow feel more awake than you ever did in your whole life, and you just KNOW deep within that they were real... there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever.

Those experiences btw happened long before I actually found Sikhi... in fact, they ultimately led me to the Sikh faith. Because Sikhism urges people to not just blindly follow ritual etc, it teaches you to go for actual experience yourself and gives you the tools to do so. That's why I was so attracted to becoming Sikh.

Anyway to answer the OP. I believe (know) in Waheguru Ji. I believe (know) in Waheguru Ji as Creator... as the ONE. And I believe that Waheguru Ji IS the ONE and ONLY ultimate / universal ONE consciousness / truth of existence.

"Creation was born of the light, and the light is in the creation"

Also Ji, what i've realised is that the experiences we have on our journey are quite fine tuned to what each individual needs to have. No one will ever believe you. In fact if you told people about your experience, a whole new thread will start with everyone stating what they 'think' 'believe' 'understand' to have happened to you ... the mind cannot comprehend these things...we can just experience for ourselves.

I love reading literature about other blessed souls, i love reading gurbani etc. Nothing beats waking up at amrit vela, closing ones eyes and just opening up to receiving...to me that is a big part of living gurbani within oneself...as well as doing Seva on the outside.

Also i believe Gurbani came from beyond the mind...while we use the mind to understand it, our understanding of it is limited, like the mind itself...
If we transcend the mind through our Simran, the real meaning/experience of it will come alive in our being.

God Bless you on your journey...sounds like your moving a long very nicely.
 

chazSingh

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I agree !!
Because when gurbani and the word of his shabad reveals itself, then you just ''know''.
You also know that there is no point arguing about it or trying to define the truth.

I am now a very strong believer that ALL the answers can be found within.
I mean, the answers and the word of the shabad was revealed to Guru Nanak ji. He then gave us that same shabad guru for us to reveal it to ourselves.

Get up early, meditate, simran and cleanse your inner self. It's because we have so much clogged up rubbish within ourselves that we don't even realize what we truly are.
Once you can clear this clutter in the mind, then you begin to FIND your Real self. Once you have found yourself, then the shabad begins to reveal itself.

I am pretty certain that if someone is trying to 'realize God' or get that 'God realization', then it can't happen unless you FIND yourself first !!

I'm sure some of you understand what I mean !

I like to think that when you, me, akasha, and everyone else in the sangat and around the world are sat in deep simran, that we form a network bringing in positive healing energy to balance out the negative energy on this earth...whilst cleansing the negative crap within us also :)
 

arshdeep88

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in my opinion i agree with respected chaz singh brother, the thing he talked about Amrit vella
Guru Nanak dev ji has beautifully ask us to contemplate and think about the Creator in Amrit vella
he has asked all of us to experience this for ourselves and not to rely on each other's experience.
Some might have different experience some might have other
we are not to judge who is right and who is wrong
all are having experience according to their life situations and circumstances and its not that some are wrong and some are right
in few difficult circumstances and situations we sometimes go on to the point of neglecting his existence
all can experience it according to his or her thinking
a person filled with humbleness ,love ,devotion and living under the will of TRUE CREATOR will see god everywhere no matter what
a person filled with no such things wont be able to feel the existence of his creation and the creator no matter how many times he say "waheguru waheguru in the day or how many paths he do in the day"
merely chanting without remembrance love and deovtion is of NO use
chanting takes beautiful form only when there is love and devotion for HIM and HIS remembrance
but ill tell you one thing from my experience, sometimes i just do paath without any devotion i just do it sometimes as parrot utters few words but later on in my difficult situations the same hymns that i have read before comes in my mind now with TRUE MEANING and now shows me things from wider prospective and allows me to ponder about many things

Remembrance can be anything from watching beautiful creations all around to the nature around
thinking how great the universe has been created and how perfect all things are around in nature
how beautifully the sun is revolving around the earth and how life is expanding on the earth
isnt it beautiful enough and peace giving enough?
for me sometimes just looking at these things and wondering about stars in the night are enough to make me realize the MAJESTY of the creator and make me forget all my worries.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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SpnAdmin..YOU are the "DEVIL"...and I want you to post a picture of your HORNS..or I AM NOT a SIKH..because I do believe the Devil has HORNS..so there you go..please post the picture so i can continue being a SIKH..or i am going to turn into an IMP...and migrate to that other "thread" about ME..the IMP...

By the way my late mum also used to call ME a "DEVIL INCARNATE"..but unfortunately she didnt own a camera.back then....so no horned pic of me..and by now I Dont have a Single HAIR on my head..much less any "HORNS"...so I am EITHER a Hairless SIKH..or a HORNLESS DEVIL ?? or so called Gyani ?? ha ha..

LITERALLY speaking...ha ha ha...PangaLiyaTha...nahin..PangaLiya HAI..many times..I am the man called Panga man..becasue i take Panga with everything...

As an aside..a very very respected GYANI form Australia with a lifetime of Sikhi in his back pocket ( Ooops..side pocket becasue Gyani pajamas/cholas dont have back pockets...only side ones..)..claims he went to a SHAMAN..who made him lie down on a bed naked with a sheet covering him..then she waved her hands over his naked stoamch..and took out a bloody piece of meat or something..and showed it to him..and he is finally FREE of crippling stomach pains..bleeding in his stools..which he had for past 65 years with no cure...some docs xrayed hima nd siad ulcers..some said piles..some said this and some said that..but the pain continued..until.....SO THIS IS WHAT the PANGA GUY is trying to drill into us..."theres something OUT THERE..which he saw..but we cant...OR WONT.....BUT the MISTAKE he is making is trying to PULL SGGS INTO HIS CORNER...and that this Panga man cant agree with...You can see..I cant see..he can see i cnat see or wont see..its all between HUMANS..no need to DRAG in the GURU...the GURU is very CLEAR and Transaprent...THERE IS NOTHING OUT THERE EXCEPT the CREATOR.PERIOD. and I BELIEVE IN THAT 110%.period also.:swordfights::swordfights:
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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i thought it was the Cow...(Kamdhyen GAOO not Kamdhayen TREE ?? or is there such a TREE also...???

aside a coconut tree could possibly be such..its leaves make for roofing..its trunk madke for bridges..its fruit gives milk, oil,..its roots give us medicine..its fruits cover gives us ropes..so in a literal way its Elleysian Tree all right..but no hurry I will wait till you find the Cow...then we will get all our wishes !!! YEAH and 3 hurrahs..
 
Aug 28, 2010
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i thought it was the Cow...(Kamdhyen GAOO not Kamdhayen TREE ?? or is there such a TREE also...???

aside a coconut tree could possibly be such..its leaves make for roofing..its trunk madke for bridges..its fruit gives milk, oil,..its roots give us medicine..its fruits cover gives us ropes..so in a literal way its Elleysian Tree all right..but no hurry I will wait till you find the Cow...then we will get all our wishes !!! YEAH and 3 hurrahs..

GIYANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji,
Yes ....Such a tree has been refered as PARIJAAT .
It is worth noting that KAAMDHENU and PARIJAAT both are well clarified
in Gurbanee.This any one can know from within Banee Sukhmani .

Prakash.s.Bagga
 

Tejwant Singh

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[B said:
arshdeep88;184472]in my opinion i agree with respected chaz singh brother, the thing he talked about Amrit vella. Guru Nanak dev ji has beautifully ask us to contemplate and think about the Creator in Amrit vella[/B]

he has asked all of us to experience this for ourselves and not to rely on each other's experience.
Some might have different experience some might have other we are not to judge who is right and who is wrongall are having experience according to their life situations and circumstances and its not that some are wrong and some are right in few difficult circumstances and situations we sometimes go on to the point of neglecting his existence all can experience it according to his or her thinking a person filled with humbleness ,love ,devotion and living under the will of TRUE CREATOR will see god everywhere no matter what a person filled with no such things wont be able to feel the existence of his creation and the creator no matter how many times he say "waheguru waheguru in the day or how many paths he do in the day"merely chanting without remembrance love and deovtion is of NO use chanting takes beautiful form only when there is love and devotion for HIM and HIS remembrance but ill tell you one thing from my experience, sometimes i just do paath without any devotion i just do it sometimes as parrot utters few words but later on in my difficult situations the same hymns that i have read before comes in my mind now with TRUE MEANING and now shows me things from wider prospective and allows me to ponder about many things

Remembrance can be anything from watching beautiful creations all around to the nature around
thinking how great the universe has been created and how perfect all things are around in nature
how beautifully the sun is revolving around the earth and how life is expanding on the earth
isnt it beautiful enough and peace giving enough?
for me sometimes just looking at these things and wondering about stars in the night are enough to make me realize the MAJESTY of the creator and make me forget all my worries
.


Arshdeep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

There are many threads here at SPN about AmritVela which can be read by you and Chaz Singh ji.

Allow me to clarify one thing very openly though. Guru Nanak never said what time is so called AmritVela. If he wanted to give us the exact hour, he would have.This is an assumption by many people on behalf of Guru Nanak which is uncalled for in my opinion.

The term AmritVela was pushed into this thread by Chaz Singh ji in many of his posts for the reasons only known to him because this thread is NOT about AmritVela.

If anyone wants to start a new thread regarding AmritVela after having read all the threads about it, then please feel free to do so. Gurmat based threads are like Sehaj Paaths. It is OK to revive the thought or the discussion that is important to Sikhi.

My only request is that let's not try to push our personal agenda in any thread but discuss about what it requires with open mindedness based on the whole Shabad of Gurbani rather than one or two liners which can be misleading and hence disrespectful to our Gurus who want us to learn the message given in the Shabad. We are the lucky ones to have this kind of privilege to make ours and others' lives better by sharing it.

Having said that, I totally agree with you with the last part of your post which is in bold.

Let's stick to the subject of this thread for what it is for.

Thanks and regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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arshdeep88

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Mar 13, 2013
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Sat sri akal respected Tejwant singh ji :)

nobody is posting here with any personal agenda ji,everyone is entitled to post his/her opinion through his experience which lays a foundation for learning for many.Everyone here is smart enough to follow things according to his/her wisdom
 

Harry Haller

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Everyone here is smart enough to follow things according to his/her wisdom

not so dear friend, I consider myself severely lacking in the wisdom department. All of us have found something, some facet of Sikhism that we grab on to, some are lucky to have found two or three facets, and there is a tiny minority that have a real understanding of what it is to be a Sikh, of what it is to really believe in Waheguru. Some might say to really believe in Waheguru you need to look like the real deal, some might say you need to say the prayers as noted in the SRM, or to love God, or to develop some meaningful relationship with a deity, many, including myself, get stuck on one facet, and believe if we develop that facet, we will find the understanding and wisdom we sorely need, but we are wrong. In every field you will find specialists, in medicine, there are countless fields one can be an expert in, in Sikhism this is not good enough, you need to master every facet of Sikhism, and give due balance to all of the facets, the look, the spirituality, the learning, the devotion, the caring, the seva,

Tejwantji is rightly concerned, as indeed am I, when one facet is lauded and pushed above all the others, I push seva, and the help of others, together with understanding and harnessing the thieves, Chazji pushes meditation and sprituality, Tejwantji pushes pragmatism, some are good at understanding Bani, as individuals we are nothing, but as a sangat, we are Khalsa.

I have lots of time for Chazji, I do not agree with him on all matters, but his heart is true, as is Tejwantji's, they are wolf and man, black and white, a perfect balance, somewhere in the middle lies the truth.
 

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