Do You Believe In Reincarnation Or Transmigration? | Page 8 | SIKH PHILOSOPHY NETWORK
  • Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Do You Believe In Reincarnation Or Transmigration?

Do you believe in reincarnation / transmigration?

  • Yes, the soul starts as a lower life form and progresses up or down according to karma

    Votes: 6 22.2%
  • Yes, but rebirth not affected by karma

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Yes, but with other (or no) conditions

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • No, I don't believe in reincarnation or transmigration

    Votes: 13 48.1%
  • Other (please detail in thread)

    Votes: 5 18.5%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
8,185
51
Why would God let me die in the womb after going through the whole cycle and having one more chance to please Him. Hard to get a answer to that one.
not really, although the question itself leaves much to be desired.
I will answer from my own perspective, as to what my own understanding is, as that is all I have

Firstly god does not let anything happen, we have divine rules, like gravity which dictate what happens rather than some old beardy watching a mock up of the world on TV with a giant remote control, shouting out 'ok your toast' or 'hey your a great person, have a Mercedes Benz'. Whatever happens, happens because of either consonance or disconsonance, smoke heavily, get lung disease, drive fast, have more accidents, have lots of sex, get STD's.

as for one more chance to please him, well, this is just too Abrahamic for me, so by your reckoning, we are all on this earth to please him, because his ego is so huge, he demands respect and bowing and scraping, and we please him by growing our hair, sticking fingers in our ears and mumbling, or by paying people to read his word for days on end, so we can all feel good about ourselves, or by washing flags in milk, I could go on.....

finding consonance just isnt good enough for some people, those that sit in the lap of god, do not even know about it, its just normal for them, no drama, no ceremony, no ritual, no rubbish, simplicity in itself
 

Inderjeet Kaur

Writer
SPNer
Oct 13, 2011
869
1,763
Seattle, Washington, USA
not really, although the question itself leaves much to be desired.
I will answer from my own perspective, as to what my own understanding is, as that is all I have

Firstly god does not let anything happen, we have divine rules, like gravity which dictate what happens rather than some old beardy watching a mock up of the world on TV with a giant remote control, shouting out 'ok your toast' or 'hey your a great person, have a Mercedes Benz'. Whatever happens, happens because of either consonance or disconsonance, smoke heavily, get lung disease, drive fast, have more accidents, have lots of sex, get STD's.

as for one more chance to please him, well, this is just too Abrahamic for me, so by your reckoning, we are all on this earth to please him, because his ego is so huge, he demands respect and bowing and scraping, and we please him by growing our hair, sticking fingers in our ears and mumbling, or by paying people to read his word for days on end, so we can all feel good about ourselves, or by washing flags in milk, I could go on.....

finding consonance just isnt good enough for some people, those that sit in the lap of god, do not even know about it, its just normal for them, no drama, no ceremony, no ritual, no rubbish, simplicity in itself
Harry, I thought I was done commenting on this thread, but after reading what you wrote here, I need to say, Thank you. This is incredibly and unself-consciously beautiful.
 

Sherdil

Writer
SPNer
Jan 20, 2014
438
874
explain why reincarnation is mentioned numerous times in the Guru Granth Sahib? There is proof of reincarnation already. There is reincarnation but some just don't want to accept the fact and that's alright but Guru Nanak Devi Ji touched on the topic clearly and still many chose to not believe. Your call. If you want to call yourself a Sikh than follow all the principles of Sikhism you can't just be saying oh I believe in this but no not this and pick out things you don't believe in....
Lol. Please show us the proof of reincarnation.

Guru ji was focused on getting results. If that meant framing gurbani in a manner in which the Hindu populace would understand, then so be it.

If I write: "The moorakhs slander and sin, they are forever on Santa's naughty list."

It does not mean that I believe in Santa or a naughty list. I have said this to get people to realize the error of their ways.

People who take things at face value will see it as evidence of a Santa Clause, who is constantly watching our actions from the North Pole.

I think it's insulting to believe that Guru ji gave any credence to such a faulty philosophy.
 

Sherdil

Writer
SPNer
Jan 20, 2014
438
874
Proof of reincarnation has been around for a long time. Scientists in India doing research finding how some kids find out something about past-life. Much much more discoveries have been found.
"Scientists in India" = Shamu and Ramu, the village idiots.

"Some kids found out something about past lives" = Made up a story

"Much much more discoveries have been found" = Take my word for it, even if proof is lacking.
 

Sherdil

Writer
SPNer
Jan 20, 2014
438
874
Let us revisit some facts about karma/reincarnation/transmigration in the context of real life.


Satyaban will look at the above picture and may say it is based on Karma's of the child. A punishment for past actions that the child somehow is accountable for.
Duh! It's so obvious! That child must have done something to that vulture in its past life! lol

Don't feel too bad. After getting eaten by the vulture, the child's karma will be settled, and he can move closer to moksha. :meditatingsingh:

No need to get all emotional about it. That fosters attachment.

Far be it from anyone to go to Africa and set up langar to help these people. That would cause us to be invested in the outcome of our actions!:mundafacepalm:
 

Abneet

SPNer
Apr 8, 2013
281
312
"Scientists in India" = Shamu and Ramu, the village idiots.

"Some kids found out something about past lives" = Made up a story

"Much much more discoveries have been found" = Take my word for it, even if proof is lacking.
I don't really look upon these stories I'm just showing you samples. You would think that most stories are fake but some cannot be rebutted but there's ignorant Sikhs that only like what their beliefs suit the so let it be. Like I said before reincarnation is a Sikh's belief but we shouldn't worry about the future instead we should shape up our present day life and let WAheguru take care of what happens in afterlife. As we see now everyone is pointing fingers when it comes to translating the GGS and what it says on the topic of reincarnation. Sikhs believe in reincarnation end of that.
 
Last edited:

angrisha

SPNer
Jun 24, 2010
95
231
34
Canada
As we see now everyone is pointing fingers when it comes to translating the GGS and what it says on the topic of reincarnation. Sikhs believe in reincarnation end of that.
Its not so much translating as it is an interpretation...

Also there is no actual scientific proof on any of this as you claim, there have been no major studies done on reincarnation, those that I have found are individuals making observations (i.e. no better than anything me or you are saying here today)... If you can show me an actual scientific journal I will consider reading it, up till that point there is nothing based in science that proves anything....

.... and I didnt realize that Sikhi was so black and white....
 
Aug 27, 2005
328
223
72
Baltimore Md USA
After reading the most recent comment I had to return.

This is about belief, spiritual meaning believing in the unseen that is why the term "religious faith" is so common.

We can't say anyone is wrong headed in this, no one can prove empirically that God exists and we can not apply logic to a being that we can not begin to comprehend.

Some of us are explaining what we believe but unfortunately some are not satisfied with that and are trying to beat up what others believe.
 

N30S1NGH

SPNer
Mar 26, 2015
36
23
According to my understanding, when we perceive or identify ourselves with this world in duality as separate from God/Vahiguru as relative duality with our egoic conditioned separate I, then there is reincarnation, transmigration.

But when we perceive or identify this world as one absolute non dual truth- God/Vahiguru in all, all in God/Vahiguru and have deeper realization of it then there is no reincarnation or transmigration, hell or heaven, all separate distinctions, fragmented reality in perception cease to exist. It's one absolute truth in all, all in one.

Reincarnation or transmigration or this world has no separate reality on its own. It's individual perception- I consciousness validates/invalidates this existence of this world, reincarnation or transmigration not the other way around based on live experience.
 
Last edited:

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
8,185
51
According to my understanding, when we perceive or identify ourselves with this world in duality as separate from God/Vahiguru as relative duality with our egoic conditioned separate I, then there is reincarnation, transmigration.

But when we perceive or identify this world as one absolute non dual truth- God/Vahiguru in all, all in God/Vahiguru and have deeper realization of it then there is no reincarnation or transmigration, hell or heaven, all separate distinctions, fragmented reality in perception cease to exist. It's one absolute truth in all, all in one.

Reincarnation or transmigration or this world has no separate reality on its own. It's individual perception- I consciousness validates/invalidates this existence of this world, reincarnation or transmigration not the other way around based on live experience.
my understanding of your post is that you are suggesting the subjects in debate have little to do with death and rebirth, could you clarify?
 

N30S1NGH

SPNer
Mar 26, 2015
36
23
my understanding of your post is that you are suggesting the subjects in debate have little to do with death and rebirth, could you clarify?
Yes, in my opinion... this needs to be looked from individual live experience perspective not as doctrine, unfortunately many people have turned these relatives/realities/truths- reincarnation, transmigration, hell, heaven into abstract conceptual philosophy, abstract absolute belief system, doctrine etc but forgotten to investigate within ourselves beyond our conditioned conceptual belief mindset see it for themselves if they exist, have direct live experience with it.

Everyone can relate to deep sleep some investigation may need to be done and ask ourselves truly within if this whole world, reincarnation, transmigration, death, rebirth really exist as absolute reality? If yes, what happens in deep sleep? Where does it go? I identification-illusory identification with world is not there so therefore no separate relative fragmented reality- world, reincarnation, karam, transmigration exist its not validated by I pure consciousness in deep sleep. I may be in deep sleep but I -pure unconditioned consciousness is still there otherwise how does I(consciousness) surat) have a knowledge(gayat) that i had a good refresh sleep?

I consider absolute reality as something which never changes-unchanged-sat-truth which is always there-eternal beyond birth and death.

In great statements of Gurbani in sukhmani sahib in 21st asthpadi. Gurbani is talking about absolute reality perspective where reality is ONE not fragmented where reincarnation, transmigration simply don't exist in I pure unconditioned awakened perception. It may exist as relative realities for others but I who is perceiving absolute reality- this things does not exist so its not the world, transmigration, reincarnation validates/invalidates the expereince of existence to us its other way around-We as individuals do. Unfortunately, many people read the below gurbani great statements with seperate doctrine/philosophy out there somewhere rather bringing these statement in one absolute indivisible reality into one own deep meditative inquiry experience.

Here we go - (don't mind abhramic translation of lord translation- i would rather replace abhramic version of lord with lord in all, all in lord or absolute truth-sat with purpose of my clear understanding)

ਜਬ ਅਕਾਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥
जब अकारु इहु कछु न द्रिसटेता ॥
Jab akār ih kacẖẖ na ḏaristeṯā.
When this world had not yet appeared in any form,

ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਬ ਕਹ ਤੇ ਹੋਤਾ ॥
पाप पुंन तब कह ते होता ॥
Pāp punn ṯab kah ṯe hoṯā.
who then committed sins and performed good deeds?

ਜਬ ਧਾਰੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ॥
जब धारी आपन सुंन समाधि ॥
Jab ḏẖārī āpan sunn samāḏẖ.
When the Lord Himself was in Profound Samaadhi,

ਤਬ ਬੈਰ ਬਿਰੋਧ ਕਿਸੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥
तब बैर बिरोध किसु संगि कमाति ॥
Ŧab bair biroḏẖ kis sang kamāṯ.
then against whom were hate and jealousy directed?

ਜਬ ਇਸ ਕਾ ਬਰਨੁ ਚਿਹਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਪਤ ॥
जब इस का बरनु चिहनु न जापत ॥
Jab is kā baran cẖihan na jāpaṯ.
When there was no color or shape to be seen,

ਤਬ ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਕਹੁ ਕਿਸਹਿ ਬਿਆਪਤ ॥
तब हरख सोग कहु किसहि बिआपत ॥
Ŧab harakẖ sog kaho kisėh bi▫āpaṯ.
then who experienced joy and sorrow?

ਜਬ ਆਪਨ ਆਪ ਆਪਿ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥
जब आपन आप आपि पारब्रहम ॥
Jab āpan āp āp pārbarahm.
When the Supreme Lord Himself was Himself All-in-all,

ਤਬ ਮੋਹ ਕਹਾ ਕਿਸੁ ਹੋਵਤ ਭਰਮ ॥
तब मोह कहा किसु होवत भरम ॥
Ŧab moh kahā kis hovaṯ bẖaram.
then where was emotional attachment, and who had doubts?

ਆਪਨ ਖੇਲੁ ਆਪਿ ਵਰਤੀਜਾ ॥
आपन खेलु आपि वरतीजा ॥
Āpan kẖel āp varṯījā.
He Himself has staged His own drama;

ਨਾਨਕ ਕਰਨੈਹਾਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੧॥
नानक करनैहारु न दूजा ॥१॥
Nānak karnaihār na ḏūjā. ||1||
O Nanak, there is no other Creator. ||1||

ਜਬ ਹੋਵਤ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇਵਲ ਧਨੀ ॥
जब होवत प्रभ केवल धनी ॥
Jab hovaṯ parabẖ keval ḏẖanī.
When there was only God the Master,

ਤਬ ਬੰਧ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕਹੁ ਕਿਸ ਕਉ ਗਨੀ ॥
तब बंध मुकति कहु किस कउ गनी ॥
Ŧab banḏẖ mukaṯ kaho kis ka▫o ganī.
then who was called bound or liberated?

ਜਬ ਏਕਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਅਗਮ ਅਪਾਰ ॥
जब एकहि हरि अगम अपार ॥
Jab ekėh har agam apār.
When there was only the Lord, Unfathomable and Infinite,

ਤਬ ਨਰਕ ਸੁਰਗ ਕਹੁ ਕਉਨ ਅਉਤਾਰ ॥
तब नरक सुरग कहु कउन अउतार ॥
Ŧab narak surag kaho ka▫un a▫uṯār.
then who entered hell, and who entered heaven? Who was avtar?


ਜਬ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਹਜ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥
जब निरगुन प्रभ सहज सुभाइ ॥
Jab nirgun parabẖ sahj subẖā▫e.
When God was without attributes, in absolute poise,

ਤਬ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਿਤੁ ਠਾਇ ॥
तब सिव सकति कहहु कितु ठाइ ॥
Ŧab siv sakaṯ kahhu kiṯ ṯẖā▫e.
then where was mind and where was matter - where was Shiva and Shakti?

ਜਬ ਆਪਹਿ ਆਪਿ ਅਪਨੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਧਰੈ ॥
जब आपहि आपि अपनी जोति धरै ॥
Jab āpėh āp apnī joṯ ḏẖarai.
When He held His Own Light unto Himself,

ਤਬ ਕਵਨ ਨਿਡਰੁ ਕਵਨ ਕਤ ਡਰੈ ॥
तब कवन निडरु कवन कत डरै ॥
Ŧab kavan nidar kavan kaṯ darai.
then who was fearless, and who was afraid?

ਆਪਨ ਚਲਿਤ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਨੈਹਾਰ ॥
आपन चलित आपि करनैहार ॥
Āpan cẖaliṯ āp karnaihār.
He Himself is the Performer in His own plays;

ਨਾਨਕ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਅਗਮ ਅਪਾਰ ॥੨॥
नानक ठाकुर अगम अपार ॥२॥
Nānak ṯẖākur agam apār. ||2||
O Nanak, the Lord Master is Unfathomable and Infinite. ||2||

ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਸੁਖ ਆਪਨ ਆਸਨ ॥
अबिनासी सुख आपन आसन ॥
Abẖināsī sukẖ āpan āsan.
When the Immortal Lord was seated at ease,

ਤਹ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਾ ਬਿਨਾਸਨ ॥
तह जनम मरन कहु कहा बिनासन ॥
Ŧah janam maran kaho kahā bināsan.
then where was birth, death and dissolution?



ਜਬ ਪੂਰਨ ਕਰਤਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੋਇ ॥
जब पूरन करता प्रभु सोइ ॥
Jab pūran karṯā parabẖ so▫e.
When there was only God, the Perfect Creator,

ਤਬ ਜਮ ਕੀ ਤ੍ਰਾਸ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਿਸੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
तब जम की त्रास कहहु किसु होइ ॥
Ŧab jam kī ṯarās kahhu kis ho▫e.
then who was afraid of death?


ਜਬ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਏਕਾ ॥
जब अबिगत अगोचर प्रभ एका ॥
Jab abigaṯ agocẖar parabẖ ekā.
When there was only the One Lord, unmanifest and incomprehensible,


ਤਬ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਗੁਪਤ ਕਿਸੁ ਪੂਛਤ ਲੇਖਾ ॥
तब चित्र गुपत किसु पूछत लेखा ॥
Ŧab cẖiṯar gupaṯ kis pūcẖẖaṯ lekẖā.
then who was called to account by the recording scribes of the conscious and the subconscious?


ਜਬ ਨਾਥ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਅਗਾਧੇ ॥
जब नाथ निरंजन अगोचर अगाधे ॥
Jab nāth niranjan agocẖar agāḏẖe.
When there was only the Immaculate, Incomprehensible, Unfathomable Master,

ਤਬ ਕਉਨ ਛੁਟੇ ਕਉਨ ਬੰਧਨ ਬਾਧੇ ॥
तब कउन छुटे कउन बंधन बाधे ॥
Ŧab ka▫un cẖẖute ka▫un banḏẖan bāḏẖe.
then who was emancipated, and who was held in bondage?

ਆਪਨ ਆਪ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਅਚਰਜਾ ॥
आपन आप आप ही अचरजा ॥
Āpan āp āp hī acẖarjā.
He Himself, in and of Himself, is the most wonderful.

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪਨ ਰੂਪ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਉਪਰਜਾ ॥੩॥
नानक आपन रूप आप ही उपरजा ॥३॥
Nānak āpan rūp āp hī uparjā. ||3||
O Nanak, He Himself created His Own Form. ||3||
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,181
Henderson, NV.
According to my understanding, when we perceive or identify ourselves with this world in duality as separate from God/Vahiguru as relative duality with our egoic conditioned separate I, then there is reincarnation, transmigration.

But when we perceive or identify this world as one absolute non dual truth- God/Vahiguru in all, all in God/Vahiguru and have deeper realization of it then there is no reincarnation or transmigration, hell or heaven, all separate distinctions, fragmented reality in perception cease to exist. It's one absolute truth in all, all in one.

Reincarnation or transmigration or this world has no separate reality on its own. It's individual perception- I consciousness validates/invalidates this existence of this world, reincarnation or transmigration not the other way around based on live experience.
N30S1NGH ji,

Guru Fateh.

Pardon my ignorance but I did not understand anything from your post about the subject being discussed.

Would you be kind enough to explain this in lay man's terms for people like me?

Secondly, please explain the difference between God/Vahiguru in your own thoughts. The former is the name of a deity (which Sikhi has none) and the latter is the expression of bewilderment of the wow and awe factors of Ik Ong Kaar that we are surrounded by. This is also the reason the Abrahamic translation of the Shabad you posted in your other post is totally misleading. If you understand Gurmukhi, which I suspect you do, please check Professor Sahib Singh's interpretation and share your findings with us.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 
Last edited:

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Feb 20, 2012
1,644
1,642
N30S1NGH ji,

Guru Fateh.

Pardon my ignorance but I did not understand anything from your post about the subject being discussed.

Would you be kind enough to explain this in lay man's terms for people like me?

Secondly, please explain the difference between God/Vahiguru in your own thoughts. The former is the name of a deity (which Sikhi has none) and the latter is the expression of bewilderment of the wow and awe factors of Ik Ong Kaar that we are surrounded by. This is also the reason the Abrahamic translation of the Shabad you posted in your other post is totally misleading. If you understand Gurmukhi, which I suspect you do, please check Professor Sahib Singh's interpretation and share your findings with us.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
Tejwant ji,

What has your question got to do with the subject matter of this discussion?

whats wrong with using the word God? when you say "the former is the name of a Diety"...that is what YOU think....that is what some others may thing...but that is NOT what EVERYONE thinks...the word God means whatever your mind can comprehend at any given moment in your spiritual journey towards God/Waheguru/Satnam'Ram/Allahs realization...

whether the interpretation used the Word God/Waheguru/ik ong kaar...the message is pretty much clear.

because no matter what word you use, none of use (apart from a few very blessed souls) will know what God/Waheguru/Ram/Allah/Satnaam/Ikongkaar/ is..
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,181
Henderson, NV.
Tejwant ji,

What has your question got to do with the subject matter of this discussion?

whats wrong with using the word God? when you say "the former is the name of a Diety"...that is what YOU think....that is what some others may thing...but that is NOT what EVERYONE thinks...the word God means whatever your mind can comprehend at any given moment in your spiritual journey towards God/Waheguru/Satnam'Ram/Allahs realization...

whether the interpretation used the Word God/Waheguru/ik ong kaar...the message is pretty much clear.

because no matter what word you use, none of use (apart from a few very blessed souls) will know what God/Waheguru/Ram/Allah/Satnaam/Ikongkaar/ is..
Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You seem a bit annoyed about my post for the reasons only known to you and it also seems you want to start an argument rather than a fruitful interaction through which all of us can learn from your wisdom.

I would rather wait for N30S1NGH ji, to whom my post is addressed and then your precious input can be discussed.

Patience is a virtue and I am sure you are aware about that as you claim to find serenity through your 'meditation'.

Why so impatient then? :)

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Feb 20, 2012
1,644
1,642
Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You seem a bit annoyed about my post for the reasons only known to you and it also seems you want to start an argument rather than a fruitful interaction through which all of us can learn from your wisdom.

I would rather wait for N30S1NGH ji, to whom my post is addressed and then your precious input can be discussed.

Patience is a virtue and I am sure you are aware about that as you claim to find serenity through your 'meditation'.

Why so impatient then? :)

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
there is no request for an argument Ji :) and i am not annoyed in any way

May my God / My Waheguru / My Lord / My creator / My companion / My Friend / My sustainer / My Guide / My Guiding Light bless me with more patience :)
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,181
Henderson, NV.
there is no request for an argument Ji :) and i am not annoyed in any way

May my God / My Waheguru / My Lord / My creator / My companion / My Friend / My sustainer / My Guide / My Guiding Light bless me with more patience :)
Chaz Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

Thanks for admitting that your God is a deity and he/she is your guiding light unlike in Sikhi because that is what the word God means in English language.


Tejwant Singh
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

These are saloks of Sant Kabir ji. They appear on Ang 1369. There is no rehao. The translation is by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa. spnadmin

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਪੰਖੀ ਭਇਓ ਉਡਿ ਉਡਿ ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਜਾਇ...

SPN on Facebook

...
Top