carolineislands
SPNer
And it really is just that simple.
Do Sikhs Need Another Guru?
And it really is just that simple.
This is ridiculous, Sikhs are debating about if we need another Guru. I humbly say to you stop this nonsense we have one Guru and that is Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Humbly bow down to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib for Sri Guru Granth Sahib is our living Guru.
Singh
So far there is no debate. No one has disagreed. Everyone is in agreement.
What you are reading is each person saying that there is one and only guru. Only they are affirming one another and saying this using their own way of speaking, their own words. So it is a discussion, and not a debate, as of yet.
I am still waiting to see if someone says something different.
So far there is no debate. No one has disagreed. Everyone is in agreement.
What you are reading is each person saying that there is one and only guru. Only they are affirming one another and saying this using their own way of speaking, their own words. So it is a discussion, and not a debate, as of yet.
I am still waiting to see if someone says something different.
Archived_member2
Archived
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Mkm Jee!
Quote "Are you suggesting that since"Guru manyo Granth" is not in Shri Guru Granth Sahib, Sikhs should not believe in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji as a Shabad Guru?"
Sikhs are tamed to believe that the message 'Guru manyo Granth' is from Guru Gobind Singh Jee. This is a false information and misleading.
Truthful Sikhs deserve truth.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the present Guru of Sikhs giving true messages from the Gurus. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is suggesting repeatedly to seek the Sabad Guru.
Not even once the true Gurus asked people to hang on them or their recorded messages and feel that they have reached the Sabad Guru.
Quote "Here you are saying now that Shri Guru Granth Sahib is suggesting to receive Shabad Guru, it is contradiction. There is a sect Naamdhari, they dont believe in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji as a Guru since they have made a living Guru but Sikhs have a Shabad Guru known as Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji, A Sikh should not make such a disgraceful statement towards Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji."
I am not asking anyone to seek and meet a fake Baabaa whom Gurdwaaraa committees are inviting for misleading Parchaars. I am trying to aware the readers to seek and receive the true Sabad Guru.
**************
Quote from Singh Jee "This is ridiculous, Sikhs are debating about if we need another Guru."
Ridiculous is to seek any other Guru than the Sabad Guru, the true Naam.
Quote "I humbly say to you stop this nonsense we have one Guru and that is Sri Guru Granth Sahib."
It is perfectly all right. Please have it. May I ask? When will people follow the true Guru?
Quote "Humbly bow down to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib for Sri Guru Granth Sahib is our living Guru."
Please do not let someone cheat your soul listening, the living Baabaa sitting beside the true Guru.
Balbir Singh
Dear all and Mkm Jee!
Quote "Are you suggesting that since"Guru manyo Granth" is not in Shri Guru Granth Sahib, Sikhs should not believe in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji as a Shabad Guru?"
Sikhs are tamed to believe that the message 'Guru manyo Granth' is from Guru Gobind Singh Jee. This is a false information and misleading.
Truthful Sikhs deserve truth.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the present Guru of Sikhs giving true messages from the Gurus. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is suggesting repeatedly to seek the Sabad Guru.
Not even once the true Gurus asked people to hang on them or their recorded messages and feel that they have reached the Sabad Guru.
Quote "Here you are saying now that Shri Guru Granth Sahib is suggesting to receive Shabad Guru, it is contradiction. There is a sect Naamdhari, they dont believe in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji as a Guru since they have made a living Guru but Sikhs have a Shabad Guru known as Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji, A Sikh should not make such a disgraceful statement towards Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji."
I am not asking anyone to seek and meet a fake Baabaa whom Gurdwaaraa committees are inviting for misleading Parchaars. I am trying to aware the readers to seek and receive the true Sabad Guru.
**************
Quote from Singh Jee "This is ridiculous, Sikhs are debating about if we need another Guru."
Ridiculous is to seek any other Guru than the Sabad Guru, the true Naam.
Quote "I humbly say to you stop this nonsense we have one Guru and that is Sri Guru Granth Sahib."
It is perfectly all right. Please have it. May I ask? When will people follow the true Guru?
Quote "Humbly bow down to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib for Sri Guru Granth Sahib is our living Guru."
Please do not let someone cheat your soul listening, the living Baabaa sitting beside the true Guru.
Balbir Singh
Balbir ji
If there is no need to discuss this then why did you start the thread in the first place? This is the thread starter post.
If you think that there is nothing more to say, then should one of the mods close the thread? Let us know.
If there is no need to discuss this then why did you start the thread in the first place? This is the thread starter post.
If you think that there is nothing more to say, then should one of the mods close the thread? Let us know.
- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
- 1,609
There is a "cerita dongeng" and the story goes: Pak Kadok was given money to buy a buffalo from a nearby town. His wife knew that he did not know what a buffalo looks like so she gave him a few pointers on what to look for. What he brought back was a mechanical grass cutter instead of a buffalo. He explained to his wife that this is what a salesman (preacher) suggested to him when he presented the pointers like sharp horns for cutter blade, making a loud noise for engine starting, four feet for four wheels, and what not.
Archived_member2
Archived
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!
Quote "If there is no need to discuss this then why did you start the thread in the first place?"
Many Baabaas on stages in front of the Sikh audience are preaching that it is enough to have the printed message of the Gurus. God's Grace will fall on its possessors automatically.
God's Grace falls on a person when he receives true Naam Sabad and comes to know its Simran.
This is the difference. All the Gurus say that the Sabad Guru and God are the same.
The fake Baabaas but say that God and the printed material bounded are the same.
This is another question why these preachers are not able to transfer the wisdom of true Sabad.
This topic has just started and may develop in a great way.
Does anyone know a Baabaa who can share the Godly wisdom of Naam or true Sabad with seekers?
Balbir Singh
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!
Quote "If there is no need to discuss this then why did you start the thread in the first place?"
Many Baabaas on stages in front of the Sikh audience are preaching that it is enough to have the printed message of the Gurus. God's Grace will fall on its possessors automatically.
God's Grace falls on a person when he receives true Naam Sabad and comes to know its Simran.
This is the difference. All the Gurus say that the Sabad Guru and God are the same.
The fake Baabaas but say that God and the printed material bounded are the same.
This is another question why these preachers are not able to transfer the wisdom of true Sabad.
This topic has just started and may develop in a great way.
Does anyone know a Baabaa who can share the Godly wisdom of Naam or true Sabad with seekers?
Balbir Singh
Balbir ji
I will try again.
NamJap ji -- Wonderful!
There is a "cerita dongeng" and the story goes: Pak Kadok was given money to buy a buffalo from a nearby town. His wife knew that he did not know what a buffalo looks like so she gave him a few pointers on what to look for. What he brought back was a mechanical grass cutter instead of a buffalo. He explained to his wife that this is what a salesman (preacher) suggested to him when he presented the pointers like sharp horns for cutter blade, making a loud noise for engine starting, four feet for four wheels, and what not.
LOL :ice:
I will try again.
NamJap ji -- Wonderful!
There is a "cerita dongeng" and the story goes: Pak Kadok was given money to buy a buffalo from a nearby town. His wife knew that he did not know what a buffalo looks like so she gave him a few pointers on what to look for. What he brought back was a mechanical grass cutter instead of a buffalo. He explained to his wife that this is what a salesman (preacher) suggested to him when he presented the pointers like sharp horns for cutter blade, making a loud noise for engine starting, four feet for four wheels, and what not.
LOL :ice:
Shabad GURU is one and ONLY...SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE.
Agiyaa bhaiyee AKAL ki..SABH SIKHAN KO HUKM HAI..
GURU MANIYO GRANTH.
Point to ponder over..SGGS only mentions "AKAAL"....from Mool Mantar..AKAAL MOORAT onwards..while OUTSIDE SGGS there is numerous mentions of KAAL...as in Kaal kantak mariah. AKAAL is WAHEGURU as ONLY Waheguru is BEYOND TIME and Birth/death etc... and AKAAL never DIES. IS "Kaal" the same as AKAAL.. can this be so ?? Why is Kaal Kantak MARIAH ??
OUTSIDE SGGS we have numerous other banis we can read/vichaar do kirtan katha of... the Nitnem banis (Rehat of Khalsa), Bhai Gurdass Jis Vaars, Kabits, Swaiyaas, Bhai Nanad Laall Jis Kavitas....Katha of Bhai Santokhs Singh jsi Suraj Parkash etc etc...ALL these are NOT "Gurbani" as Guru Ji never included any of them in SGGS. Lets not try and SECOND GUESS GURU JI and doubt His actions or try and "IMPROVE" on Him.
Regards
Gyani Jarnail Singh
Agiyaa bhaiyee AKAL ki..SABH SIKHAN KO HUKM HAI..
GURU MANIYO GRANTH.
Point to ponder over..SGGS only mentions "AKAAL"....from Mool Mantar..AKAAL MOORAT onwards..while OUTSIDE SGGS there is numerous mentions of KAAL...as in Kaal kantak mariah. AKAAL is WAHEGURU as ONLY Waheguru is BEYOND TIME and Birth/death etc... and AKAAL never DIES. IS "Kaal" the same as AKAAL.. can this be so ?? Why is Kaal Kantak MARIAH ??
OUTSIDE SGGS we have numerous other banis we can read/vichaar do kirtan katha of... the Nitnem banis (Rehat of Khalsa), Bhai Gurdass Jis Vaars, Kabits, Swaiyaas, Bhai Nanad Laall Jis Kavitas....Katha of Bhai Santokhs Singh jsi Suraj Parkash etc etc...ALL these are NOT "Gurbani" as Guru Ji never included any of them in SGGS. Lets not try and SECOND GUESS GURU JI and doubt His actions or try and "IMPROVE" on Him.
Regards
Gyani Jarnail Singh
YES Balbir Ji...
The Baaba is "BABA NANAK" and we can all read what He has to say in the SGGS....from Panna 1 - 1429....
And yes there are a Lot of "FAKE BABAS" who make USE of the SGGS of Baba nanak Ji to.."sell" their own versions of naam and true shabad..Radha Soamis, Nirankaris,Namdharerees, Sacha Sauda , Noormehliah, Asutosh etc all come to mind as these Fakes... None of them has his own "granth"...only plagirised versions of SGGS..
Gyani Jarnail Singh
Anonymous_Kaur
SPNer
Archived_member2
Archived
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Gyani Jarnail Singh Jee!
Quote "OUTSIDE SGGS we have numerous other banis we can read/vichaar do kirtan katha of... the Nitnem banis (Rehat of Khalsa), Bhai Gurdass Jis Vaars, Kabits, Swaiyaas, Bhai Nanad Laall Jis Kavitas....Katha of Bhai Santokhs Singh jsi Suraj Parkash etc etc...ALL these are NOT "Gurbani" as Guru Ji never included any of them in SGGS."
Surely one can read and do vichaar on the world literature of his choice. Why do they but establish this business in Gurdwaaraas besides Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee? Why they divert Sikhs to other directions than the true Guru? Have they become spiritually so poor that topics from Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee are completed? Is the beant (infinite) Keertan of Hari Sabad over? Has it begun at all in a so-called Sikh of the present time?
Quote "Lets not try and SECOND GUESS GURU JI and doubt His actions or try and "IMPROVE" on Him."
The impulse is to improve true spiritual growth with right practices of an individual, not the Guru.
Preachers have always been worried about their business.
God sends true Gurus on earth to create true Sikhs (learners of true Naam).
Quote from Balbir Singh "Does anyone know a Baabaa who can share the Godly wisdom of Naam or true Sabad with seekers?"
Gyani Jee' response "YES Balbir Ji...The Baaba is "BABA NANAK" and we can all read what He has to say in the SGGS....from Panna 1 - 1429...."
Some Baabaas claim to have met Guru Naanak Jee.
May I ask if someone has met Baabaa Guru Granth Saahib Jee and received the wisdom of true Naam Sabad?
Sri Guru Granth Sahib's translators and their communicators have proven that they have not.
**************
The reverend Guru's first message is JAP. Today Sikhs have learnt everything else than what true Guru suggests, from whom?
Please come to know true Naam Sabad. No one may need to read anymore Balbir Singh's posts.
Balbir Singh
Dear all and Gyani Jarnail Singh Jee!
Quote "OUTSIDE SGGS we have numerous other banis we can read/vichaar do kirtan katha of... the Nitnem banis (Rehat of Khalsa), Bhai Gurdass Jis Vaars, Kabits, Swaiyaas, Bhai Nanad Laall Jis Kavitas....Katha of Bhai Santokhs Singh jsi Suraj Parkash etc etc...ALL these are NOT "Gurbani" as Guru Ji never included any of them in SGGS."
Surely one can read and do vichaar on the world literature of his choice. Why do they but establish this business in Gurdwaaraas besides Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee? Why they divert Sikhs to other directions than the true Guru? Have they become spiritually so poor that topics from Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee are completed? Is the beant (infinite) Keertan of Hari Sabad over? Has it begun at all in a so-called Sikh of the present time?
Quote "Lets not try and SECOND GUESS GURU JI and doubt His actions or try and "IMPROVE" on Him."
The impulse is to improve true spiritual growth with right practices of an individual, not the Guru.
Preachers have always been worried about their business.
God sends true Gurus on earth to create true Sikhs (learners of true Naam).
Quote from Balbir Singh "Does anyone know a Baabaa who can share the Godly wisdom of Naam or true Sabad with seekers?"
Gyani Jee' response "YES Balbir Ji...The Baaba is "BABA NANAK" and we can all read what He has to say in the SGGS....from Panna 1 - 1429...."
Some Baabaas claim to have met Guru Naanak Jee.
May I ask if someone has met Baabaa Guru Granth Saahib Jee and received the wisdom of true Naam Sabad?
Sri Guru Granth Sahib's translators and their communicators have proven that they have not.
**************
The reverend Guru's first message is JAP. Today Sikhs have learnt everything else than what true Guru suggests, from whom?
Please come to know true Naam Sabad. No one may need to read anymore Balbir Singh's posts.
Balbir Singh
Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh
One cannot be a SINGH unless one takes Amrit (Khande di pahul). Moreso one who doesnot take Amrit and follow Rehit Maryada (Code of conduct) is not a SIKH of Guru Gobind Singh ji.
rehinee rehai soee sikh maeraa ||
ouh t(h)aakur mai ous kaa chaeraa ||
rehith binaa(n) nehi sikh kehaavai ||
rehith binaa(n) dhar chottaa(n) khaavai ||
rehith binaa(n) sukh kabahu(n) n lehae ||
thaa(n) thae rehith s dhrirr kar rehai ||
khhaalasaa khhaas kehaavai soee jaa(n) kae hiradhae bharam n hoee ||
bharam bhaekh thae rehai niaaraa so khhaalas sathiguroo hamaaraa ||
Source: Rehat Nama in Amrit Keertan-1014
Now if you believe in Ardaas, which was written by Guru Gobind Singh ji.
The begining of Chandi di Var forms the begining of the Ardas:
"Sri Bhagauti ji Sahai, Var Sri Bhagauti Ji Ki, Patshah Dasveen, Pritham Bhagauti Simar ke, Guru Nanak Layee Dihaea....................................
Tegh Bahadur simriye ghar nau nidh aaveh dhae sabh thain hoye sahae."
The addition of Guru Gobind Singh ji's name and Guru Granth Sahib jeeo name was added by Khalsa Panth along with the rest of the Ardaas.
Now question arises if you don't recognise & follow Guru Gobind Singh ji's teachings and Code of conduct. Than i don't see how one's Ardaas will ever get acceptance !
For one to become a Khalsa (pure) "Saint+Soldier", Gurbani of pargat Guru's and following Rehit is a must. It is mandatory that a SINGH should read Nitnem which includes Guru Gobind Singh ji's Bani's.
Unless one obey's Guru Gobind Singh ji's Hukum one is a fake or paper Lion !
Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh
Singhbj ji
Humbly I have to say that your declaration about a Sikh needs to be debated.
In that context, here are a few examples with a record in History.
Bhai Nand Lal ji whose writings are revered by Sikhs never became amritdhari Sikh. Why Dasmesh Pita honored him as a Sikh with a sword of pen? How todays Sikhs can forgot that historical truth?
Bhai Ghannyaa was also applauded by our Reverend Guru, Why was he not made Ghanyeea Singh? You know Guru ji loved him as a true sikh!
Only these two instances put a doubt on your declaration about being Sikhs.
Why followers of a Guru with ocean like heart show so small hearts?
I am amritdhari Sikh; however,being amritdhari makes me more open about being A Sikh. All people who strictly believe in Guru Granth Sahib ji only and live according to its teachings are also SIKHS.
Second, question was " Are you are suggesting that a second Guru should be bani of Dasam Granth?" You started a different subject. Please answer it fairly.
rgds
mkm
SPNer
- Mar 1, 2008
- 52
- 3
Archived_member2
Archived
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Mkm Jee!
Your name may be another mask belonging to the person of the same group as pk70.
Quote "O.K, If that is not from Guru Gobind Singh, whom Guru ji appointed GURU?"
The right question is 'O.K., If that is not from Guru Gobind Singh, from whom it is?'
The sentence 'Guru maanyo Granth' is from Bhai Prahlaad Jee.
This is the answer of your question 'whom Guru ji appointed GURU?'
Guru Jee has written that true Guru is the Sabad Guru. God appointed it so.
Quote "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the present Guru of Sikhs giving true messages from the Gurus
O.K, if above statement is right, who told the Sikhs that Shri Guru Granth is Guru if Guru Gobind Singh ji didnt as per your above statement ?( You say "Guru Mannyo Granth" didnt came from Guru Gobind Singh) "
Guru Gobind Singh Jee under His vigilance compiled Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee and got it written in His presence. The true Gurus wanted people to receive first and ever Guidance from Him. That is why Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee is the present Guru.
The same Guru writes that by reading a Granth one does not receive true Naam Sabad.
Quote "O.K, seek shabad Guru is a suggestion from Shri Guru Granth Sahib, seek shabad Guru from whom?"
One receives true Naam Sabad from the true Guru, SaaDhoo or the true Saint. I have heard Gurdev singing this many hundred times.
Quote "I am not as knowledgeable as you are, but Sikhs dont hang on to Gurus only, they love kirtan, naam simran, why are you saying that?"
What Sikhs know are all wall hangings, in my observation.
True Sabad Guru and its Gur (Wisdom) are above all what Sikhs have learnt as rituals.
Quote "Here you are saying now that Shri Guru Granth Sahib is suggesting to receive Shabad Guru, it is contradiction."
For me it is clear like crystal. Please come to know true Naam Sabad. Contradictions have no place there.
Quote "There is a sect Naamdhari, they dont believe in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji as a Guru since they have made a living Guru . . ."
Sorry. I do not know anyone from them.
Quote " . . . but Sikhs have a Shabad Guru known as Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji, A Sikh should not make such a disgraceful statement towards Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji."
Sabad Guru is not the printed matter. This is where Sick Baabaas and preachers have mislead Sikhs.
Once a person receives the true Sabad he realizes what is Grace and respect of even the written statements from the Gurus.
Quote "Sir ji, babaas and preachers are not what here is being discussed, bringing them here unnecessary will create confusion."
I tried to bring this in limelight because all Baabaas and preachers I met, up to now consented that they were searching for the true Naam Sabad also. They never dared to say this on stages though.
Balbir Singh
Dear all and Mkm Jee!
Your name may be another mask belonging to the person of the same group as pk70.
Quote "O.K, If that is not from Guru Gobind Singh, whom Guru ji appointed GURU?"
The right question is 'O.K., If that is not from Guru Gobind Singh, from whom it is?'
The sentence 'Guru maanyo Granth' is from Bhai Prahlaad Jee.
This is the answer of your question 'whom Guru ji appointed GURU?'
Guru Jee has written that true Guru is the Sabad Guru. God appointed it so.
Quote "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the present Guru of Sikhs giving true messages from the Gurus
O.K, if above statement is right, who told the Sikhs that Shri Guru Granth is Guru if Guru Gobind Singh ji didnt as per your above statement ?( You say "Guru Mannyo Granth" didnt came from Guru Gobind Singh) "
Guru Gobind Singh Jee under His vigilance compiled Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee and got it written in His presence. The true Gurus wanted people to receive first and ever Guidance from Him. That is why Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee is the present Guru.
The same Guru writes that by reading a Granth one does not receive true Naam Sabad.
Quote "O.K, seek shabad Guru is a suggestion from Shri Guru Granth Sahib, seek shabad Guru from whom?"
One receives true Naam Sabad from the true Guru, SaaDhoo or the true Saint. I have heard Gurdev singing this many hundred times.
Quote "I am not as knowledgeable as you are, but Sikhs dont hang on to Gurus only, they love kirtan, naam simran, why are you saying that?"
What Sikhs know are all wall hangings, in my observation.
True Sabad Guru and its Gur (Wisdom) are above all what Sikhs have learnt as rituals.
Quote "Here you are saying now that Shri Guru Granth Sahib is suggesting to receive Shabad Guru, it is contradiction."
For me it is clear like crystal. Please come to know true Naam Sabad. Contradictions have no place there.
Quote "There is a sect Naamdhari, they dont believe in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji as a Guru since they have made a living Guru . . ."
Sorry. I do not know anyone from them.
Quote " . . . but Sikhs have a Shabad Guru known as Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji, A Sikh should not make such a disgraceful statement towards Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji."
Sabad Guru is not the printed matter. This is where Sick Baabaas and preachers have mislead Sikhs.
Once a person receives the true Sabad he realizes what is Grace and respect of even the written statements from the Gurus.
Quote "Sir ji, babaas and preachers are not what here is being discussed, bringing them here unnecessary will create confusion."
I tried to bring this in limelight because all Baabaas and preachers I met, up to now consented that they were searching for the true Naam Sabad also. They never dared to say this on stages though.
Balbir Singh
drkhalsa
SPNer
- Sep 16, 2004
- 1,308
- 54
Dear Balibir Singh ji
Satsrikal!
I want to thanks you for bringing up yet another very good post.
Its difficult for me to speak about others in a sense what they think about SGGS or True Guru But I can say about myself and few of my friends with whom I intereact that we understand that the TRUE GURU that can put to end this evergoing search for truth to end is indeed Shabad Guru
But the trouble does not end here Infact it starts here!. I have lived in various places and mostly in Punjab so the moment you utter the word GURU and NAAM there pop up dozen of people who will say we have true Guru and you can try taking NAAM from him . I am just stating how I come acroos things here in punjab not being funny or sarcistic but even the understanding that you need true Shabad Guru /NAAM has not been enough for me and many like me ! Infact there are so many shops that promose the NAAM in punjab ( both realted to SIKH , HINDU AND MISc. sectors) that if I start going to each one of then to try all of them to find a real one their is preety good chance that this serach will outlast my life time ( I am 28 yrs and going by avg. male age in India Approx 30 yrs max lest!!)
So yes I admit that this is painful to be in such state for many and I sincerely wish exactly what you have written
As I have been raeding your post and do find them very stimulating for a cause .I wish this search is competed .
AlsO I want to mention that I have understood this fact clearly that PREACHER and BABA that we see in Pandals and Meetings in Gurdwara have hardly anything to offer but the confusion!!! BUT...... I also think that what you are saying about seeking and begging NAAM from Sadhoos /TRue Saint will be equally confusing as there are literally Hundereds of them in Punjab Only. May be I am wrong here but this is what I felt so I wrote it
Thanks again for your posts that make such a stir in my counciousness that I have to write again on this forum which I am not doing from sometime !
Jatinder Singh
Satsrikal!
I want to thanks you for bringing up yet another very good post.
Its difficult for me to speak about others in a sense what they think about SGGS or True Guru But I can say about myself and few of my friends with whom I intereact that we understand that the TRUE GURU that can put to end this evergoing search for truth to end is indeed Shabad Guru
But the trouble does not end here Infact it starts here!. I have lived in various places and mostly in Punjab so the moment you utter the word GURU and NAAM there pop up dozen of people who will say we have true Guru and you can try taking NAAM from him . I am just stating how I come acroos things here in punjab not being funny or sarcistic but even the understanding that you need true Shabad Guru /NAAM has not been enough for me and many like me ! Infact there are so many shops that promose the NAAM in punjab ( both realted to SIKH , HINDU AND MISc. sectors) that if I start going to each one of then to try all of them to find a real one their is preety good chance that this serach will outlast my life time ( I am 28 yrs and going by avg. male age in India Approx 30 yrs max lest!!)
So yes I admit that this is painful to be in such state for many and I sincerely wish exactly what you have written
As I have been raeding your post and do find them very stimulating for a cause .I wish this search is competed .
AlsO I want to mention that I have understood this fact clearly that PREACHER and BABA that we see in Pandals and Meetings in Gurdwara have hardly anything to offer but the confusion!!! BUT...... I also think that what you are saying about seeking and begging NAAM from Sadhoos /TRue Saint will be equally confusing as there are literally Hundereds of them in Punjab Only. May be I am wrong here but this is what I felt so I wrote it
Thanks again for your posts that make such a stir in my counciousness that I have to write again on this forum which I am not doing from sometime !
Jatinder Singh
Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh
Bhai Nand Singh Ji
Before meeting Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Bhai Sahib was known as Naib Subedar of Multan, and also as Mir Munshi of Aurangzeb's heir to the throne, Bhadur Shah.. To Sikhs he has been popularly known as Bhai Nand Lal Ji (Goya). Born in 1633 at Ghazni, Bhai Sahib became a great Persian poet and was strongly influenced by Rumi and Hafiz, whom he frequently quotes. In 1682, after his journey from Multan to Amritsar, he stopped over in Anandpur Sahib to have the Blessed Darshan of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. . He immediately received "Gurdikhya" (Charn-Amrit), and became one of Guru Sahib's most devoted disciples and a Poet Laureate of His Darbar. In 1699, Bhai Sahib along with thousands of others took Khanday-Ki-Pahul (Baptism of the Double-Edged Sword), which had replaced the Charan-Amrit Ceremony. From then on he was known as Bhai Nand Singh Ji. Bhai Sahib left this world in 1705. Bhai Sahib Ji was well rehe{censored}d in Arabic and Farsi. His writings are given the utmost respect by the Khalsa Panth.. Bhai Sahib's exemplary writings include : (1) Zindagi-Namah (2) TousiFaushnah (3) GanjNamah (4) Joti-Vikash (5) Divan-Goa-h (6) Insha Datoor (7) Arzul-Ilfaaz (8) Khatt-Mah .
Source: THE UNIQUE SPIRIT OF SIKHSIM
Guru Gobind Singh ji asked for volunteer's who would give their head for Guru.
Only the Punj Piyaras (beloved ones) loved Guru Sahib more than life itself obeyed Hukum. This clearly shows out of the hundred thousand congregation
present at Anandpur Sahib on Vaisakhi of year 1699 only Five became Piyaras, the bravest & most devoted.
After administring baptism, the Guru stood before these five beloved ones and requested them to baptise him in the same manner. They pleaded their unfitness for such a performance. The Guru replied that he was not superior to his devoted disciples. The Guru said "The Khalsa is the Guru and the Guru is the Khalsa. There is no difference between me and you." They baptised him, everyone of the five giving one palmful of nectar and sprinkling it on his head and face turn by turn. He added Singh to his own name in place of Rai and henceforth came to be called Gobind Singh.
Now if Guru Gobind Singh ji recognised the need of taking Khande di pahul then there are no doubts !
"live according to it's teaching are Sikhs" - pk70
This shows how much respect you have for living Guru Granth Sahib jeeo .
Without respect there is no blessing !
Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh
mkm
SPNer
- Mar 1, 2008
- 52
- 3
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Mkm Jee!
Your name may be another mask belonging to the person of the same group as pk70.
LOL! There is another judge on this site who judges people without even knowing them.
I asked you questions and you have attached my name with PR70. I read PK70 posts but am told by you only that there is PK70 group.:down:
Here is an other simple question judge ji, does after seeking Naam from your shabad guru one starts attacking others personally if they ask any question?
Quote "O.K, If that is not from Guru Gobind Singh, whom Guru ji appointed GURU?"
The right question is 'O.K., If that is not from Guru Gobind Singh, from whom it is?'
The sentence 'Guru maanyo Granth' is from Bhai Prahlaad Jee.
So Sikhs believe in Shri Guru Granth Sahib, why to even bother debate the vaak" Guru mannyo Granth"?
This is the answer of your question 'whom Guru ji appointed GURU?'
Guru Jee has written that true Guru is the Sabad Guru. God appointed it so.
Kindly explain us where it is written by Guru Gobind Singh Jee and said it is appointed by God, I will be thankful.
Quote "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the present Guru of Sikhs giving true messages from the Gurus
O.K, if above statement is right, who told the Sikhs that Shri Guru Granth is Guru if Guru Gobind Singh ji didnt as per your above statement ?( You say "Guru Mannyo Granth" didnt came from Guru Gobind Singh) "
Guru Gobind Singh Jee under His vigilance compiled Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee and got it written in His presence. The true Gurus wanted people to receive first and ever Guidance from Him. That is why Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee is the present Guru.
The same Guru writes that by reading a Granth one does not receive true Naam Sabad.
Kindly give a quote where Guru Gobind Singh ji wrote that by reading Shri Guru Granth Sahib jee one does not receive true Naam Shabad
Quote "O.K, seek shabad Guru is a suggestion from Shri Guru Granth Sahib, seek shabad Guru from whom?"
One receives true Naam Sabad from the true Guru, SaaDhoo or the true Saint. I have heard Gurdev singing this many hundred times.
You should give valid quotes who are those saad or saint if Sikhs cannot receive Naam from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Jee?
Quote "I am not as knowledgeable as you are, but Sikhs dont hang on to Gurus only, they love kirtan, naam simran, why are you saying that?"
What Sikhs know are all wall hangings, in my observation.
Only your observation is not enough to judge the whole community.
True Sabad Guru and its Gur (Wisdom) are above all what Sikhs have learnt as rituals.
I was thinking we are discussing Guru , Shabad Guru not the rituals?
Quote "Here you are saying now that Shri Guru Granth Sahib is suggesting to receive Shabad Guru, it is contradiction."
For me it is clear like crystal. Please come to know true Naam Sabad. Contradictions have no place there.
You are saying please" come to know true Naam Shabad" but never explain it. Explain it please if you know, now I doubt you know
Quote "There is a sect Naamdhari, they dont believe in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji as a Guru since they have made a living Guru . . ."
Sorry. I do not know anyone from them.
I didnt say that you knew them, what I meant that they do not believe in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Jee as Guru but rather worship a human.
Quote " . . . but Sikhs have a Shabad Guru known as Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji, A Sikh should not make such a disgraceful statement towards Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji."
Sabad Guru is not the printed matter. This is where Sick Baabaas and preachers have mislead Sikhs.
Here I may lose my control. How dare you call Shri Guru Granth Sahib jee a printed matter? Calling others Sick babas but statements you make are sickening. Sikhs experience all ten Gurus presence in Guru Granth Sahib jee and revere it high. Nations fight over a flag. Because Flag represents a nation, they dont call it a piece of cloth. Shri Guru Granth Sahib jee represents all Gurus and all wisdom Sikhs needs to have. What do you have? A habit of making low class derogatory statements about Guru of Sikhs.
Once a person receives the true Sabad he realizes what is Grace and respect of even the written statements from the Gurus.
After reading above statement about Shri Guru Granth Sahib jee, I doubt there is any truth in your statements.
Quote "Sir ji, babaas and preachers are not what here is being discussed, bringing them here unnecessary will create confusion."
I tried to bring this in limelight because all Baabaas and preachers I met, up to now consented that they were searching for the true Naam Sabad also. They never dared to say this on stages though.
Why couldnt you enlighten them ?:u):
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