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Decline Of Sikhism

sdad

SPNer
Feb 17, 2009
20
24
The writer of the article is more mistaken than he knows.
I heard similar ramblings over 35 years ago (when I moved to the UK), in fact an elderly person at the time confidently told me Sikhism would be a thing of the past within 5-10 years.

Although I think it is ironic that people from other faiths are becoming Sikhs (Good ones at that), whilst Sikhs are *******ising / walking away from it. When you think, the word Sikh implies someone willing to learn than a manmukh cannot by definition be a Sikh.

IMHO a person who is a traitor to principals followed by his ancestors or those that are just sensible is of little consequences, hence, when I hear such news as so & so has cut his hair, although there is some sadness at first on the whole I am glad of it, have you heard of the saying “a chain is only as good as the weakest link” that person was never a Sikh at heart and he/she doesn’t deserve Sikhi, so good riddance. I firmly believe and my experience tells me such actions will make the Sikh core much stronger and much better. There is no loss for Sikhi of a person that was never a member in the first place, and ask any army in any country what they think of traitors, and you will get my drift.

I also disagree with the author of the article on a number of accounts, when he says:
A) This time there is no government interference in religious affair of the Sikhs”, come-on, which planet is he on?
B) In the end,there is also a question of fashion. They feel smarter without it.” Where did this come from? Which religion anywhere worries about fashion above principals?
C) They have adopted,the globalization probably has had a greater impact, European habits: fast food, pubs and clubs. They want to show they are modern. They are willingly & votuntarily forgetting their own culture. Another 20 years will pass and the world wont have any more Sikhs in turbans. ” I will happily lay a bet on the being absolutely wrong, it is in the western societies (USA, Canada, Malaysia, UK, etc,) where I have met the most devout GurSikh’s, I guess if exposed to all the temptations one can holds to their principals than they must be strong.
Read More:: Sikh Philosophy NetwDecline of Sikhism (Decline of It is clear that in modern society many people trim their hair some because they look around and see that it has become the norm (sheep syndrome) and others because they don’t know any better (don’t know better syndrome ). Rarely does one look to see why something; a style of clothing, a style of keeping ones hair etc, and the underlying reasons.

I have yet to see a Sikh who has faith in Guru-ji walk away, so what, if the faithless move away, did Guru Gobind Singh-ji not say "he did NOT love a Sikh he loved Sikhi"?

The most painful thing for me reading this article was the author has the word “Singh” in his name, and he says things like “To begin with, today there is the very question of Sikh identity, and to define who is a Sikh”, I would say to him everybody should know what they are, including him, and certainly a Sikhi would know if he is one. I agree 100% with max314 when he says "Quality over quantity"

GurFateh!
Satvinder Singh
 
Nov 29, 2009
8
10
37
Sat Sri Akal to all.

I wholeheartedly agree with Amarpal Ji, about his distinction between Sikhi-Philosophy and Khalsa-Panth.

I think it is a misconception that Sikhi is one the decline. It is, in fact, on the rise! The core of Sikhi is the Mulmanter Sahib, and look around the world today, don't you see more and more people ascribing to the same concepts of God and Existence as expounded by Guru Nanak Dev ji? It is true that most people have not reached these conclusions through the MulManter Sahib, but why should that be the case?

As for Panth-Khalsa, that is a different matter.
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
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How could we say that sikhi is on rise? No Doubt people visiting Gurdwara's ,reciting some Gurbani are increasing but they are not at all sikh.We should also remember Gurugranth sahib 's bani is widely used by Baba's Guru's of India.so people may visit gurswara recite some bani but side by side they worship idols,visit their living Guru's so sikhi even with mone are on decline
 

ballym

SPNer
May 19, 2006
260
335
Narayanjot ji

Second thing I want to say is after 9/11 the turbanphobia by the west is also responsible
Punjabi sikhs in India are known to be the biggest migrators to west but now with turban
they find it more and more difficult. Its easy for a western born educated sikh to sue his employer if he is discriminating him but for Punjab's sikh who parents are in debt ,who have to maintain his family may not have much choice but just to give up turban
It is not true, I guess. may be just an excuse. Sorry for being blunt.
I was born in Uttar Pradesh and had no link with Punjaab. There was not even an idea of touching hairs ever came to anybody's mind. Later I went to chandigarh as I got job there. Hey!, entire punjab had so many people with trimmed beard, no hairs etc.
Another thing I fail to understand... if Hairs are so so important then why does not our peple object to trimming as much as they object to cutting long hairs? one murder and thousand murders... punishment is same. Am I right? Why do we have beauty parlours? Why double standards. Is it in our blood to keep fighting with fellow people? Oh, u r not doing this right... I will kill you?
Once again, sorry for writing in such fasion but it seems that we need a right people at the top for right direction.
And let us move forward. Sikhi would not die if we cut hairs. It would die if we keep excluding everyone with a slight different style.
sacha sauda, radha soami , mahants... why do they prosper?
Everybody says we do not need them but these groups have good following despite giving nothing much in return except cheap food and clean looking open spaces as dera beas.. a different feel. Why can not we provide it our selves. Christians have so many sections, muslims also have it . Why not us. Why do we want to kill Nirankari's.
Why can not we tolerate these slight variations and bringing them under one body. You object and they separate.
What is better.
A 80% ( Visibly 80%) may be better than fully conforming( as per definition of visibilty test of being a sikh) but a real traitor.
What guarantee onehas that a person having all 5 k's and doing Path can not do harm to our religion.
In fact they are doing it. that is why we are discussing this point here.

I think I have crossed some limits!
 

kds1980

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Apr 3, 2005
4,502
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sacha sauda, radha soami , mahants... why do they prosper?
Everybody says we do not need them but these groups have good following despite giving nothing much in return except cheap food and clean looking open spaces as dera beas.. a different feel. Why can not we provide it our selves. Christians have so many sections, muslims also have it . Why not us. Why do we want to kill Nirankari's.
Why can not we tolerate these slight variations and bringing them under one body. You object and they separate.
What is better.

Even sikhism has so many sects.In christianity all have to belive christ as son of God while in islam everybody has to believe mohammed as last prophet similarly in sikhism all those who belive Gurgranth sahib their Guru and beleive in teachings of 10 Guru's are considered as sikhs.Nirankari's mocked sikh Guru's That's why sikhs became upset with them.If you don't remember then Nirankari's were part of sikh faith unless they themself decided to part away
 

ballym

SPNer
May 19, 2006
260
335
I agree 100% with max314 when he says "Quality over quantity"
We need quantity also..other wise there are so many sects in this world who are unknown to most. I am not implying that we will be reduced to that level but it is our duty to expand. Look to ther religions and follow. Islam also asks to keep hairs but how many keep them but they are devout muslim in their heart. Muslim religion does not disown them.
 

vsgrewal48895

Writer
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Mar 12, 2009
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INTOLERANCE/ਅਸਹਿਨਸ਼ੀਲਤਾ



ABSTRACT



Intolerance is the lack of ability or willingness to accept something and is one of the character defects. It reflects an unwillingness to recognize and respect differences in opinions or beliefs. It might be due to a complex mental state involving beliefs. One’s feelings and values dispose him to act in certain ways. No individual or group is actually superior to the rest of the humanity. Intolerance is a refusal to accept people who have views, beliefs or life styles, which are different from one’s own. It is often due to ego as expressed by Guru Nanak in Raag Asa:

ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਪੂਰਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਘਟਿ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਆਖੈ ਪਤਿ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੋਲਿਆ ਜਾਪੈ
Sabh Ko Poora Aapay Hovai Ghat Na Ko-ee Aakhai, pat parvaanaa pichhai paa-ee-ai taa naanak toli-aa jaapai.

Every one deems himself perfect, and none calls himself imperfect. If the weight of honor is placed on the scale, then, O Nanak, one sees his true weight.-----Guru Nanak, Asa Di Var, AGGS, Page, 469-4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are We Intolerant?

Intolerance has been commonly associated with religion. Closely tied to the notion of “judgment” is “tolerance.” Although many accuse absolutists of intolerance, these accusers most likely have an unclear and distorted notion of what tolerance really is. They often are unaware that the concept of tolerance implies a close relationship to truth. Contrary to popular definitions, true tolerance means “putting up with error, and accepting all views.” By definition, what we tolerate is what we disapprove of or what we believe to be false and erroneous. Furthermore, tolerance presupposes an adequate grasp of what another person believes—as well as knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of such belief. Actually, if disagreement didn’t exist, then tolerance would be unnecessary. It is because real differences exist between people that tolerance becomes necessary and virtuous.

Intolerance may be caused by an unacceptable environment or a drug. Absence of the virtue of tolerance is a character defect and a global malady. I supplicated to God to bless me with tolerance. God said No; it is not granted but learnt.


ਖਿਮਾ ਗਹੀ ਸਚੁ ਸੰਚਿਓ ਖਾਇਓ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਨਾਮ ਖਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਭਈ ਅਨਦ ਸੂਖ ਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮ

Khimaa Gahee Sach Sanchio Khaa-eo Amnrit Naam, Kharee Kirpaa Thaakur Bha-ee Anad Sookh Bisraam.

Adopt an attitude of tolerance, gather truth, and partake of the Ambrosial Nectar of the Name. When my Akal Purkh and Master showed Its Great Mercy, I found peace, happiness and bliss.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 261-8


For Full Article; please find in the archives of the forum or copy & paste the heading in Google search.


Respectfully Submitted,

Virinder
 

Odion

SPNer
Aug 21, 2009
11
13
I'm not sure if Sikhism is declining, I've met many pious Sikhs that did not keep the five k's, yet they still did Amrit Vela and gave charity.

I think we need to be careful so as not to turn Sikhism into an exclusivist club. The Khalsa is great, but it is not something everyone can keep, perhaps they are spiritually or emotionally unable to grow their hair, perhaps they unconsciously pluck hairs (I know someone, a non-Sikh, who unconsciously pulls hairs out) and I don't think that those who are unable to make that commitment should be called non-Sikhs.

When I was first searching through faiths, I was originally put off Sikhism because of its emphasis on being unable to cut hair - I am a person who has long hair myself, but I'm not a fan of facial hair (makes me come out in spots and a rash) and one of my biggest concerns is not being accepted by the sangat due to being a convert and yet being unable to keep kesh.

In my view Sikhism is more than hair and one who does not keep the five k's is still a Sikh; it is not a case of only Amritdhari and Keshdhari as being "real Sikhs" like I have heard a few people (not on here) say. I know from discussing religion with people (I love discussing religion :D) that Sikhism is a religion that many are VERY impressed with when they learn about its beliefs. There are many potential Western converts to Sikhism because they love the theology - myself included.

Not to sound like I'm proselytising Christianity or anything, but I think we can take Jesus' words of "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand." should be listened to. Sikhi should not be divided against Sikhi, this is a faith about the unity of humankind, being a better person and a God without fear or hatred (a very summarised view :D).

This is just my $0.02, and I hope I haven't caused anyone any offence. If I have, I apologize as this was not my intention. :)
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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When I was first searching through faiths, I was originally put off Sikhism because of its emphasis on being unable to cut hair - I am a person who has long hair myself, but I'm not a fan of facial hair (makes me come out in spots and a rash) and one of my biggest concerns is not being accepted by the sangat due to being a convert and yet being unable to keep kesh.

:)

odion ji

Not all sangats will put off a convert or one who does not keep hair. So please if you can find a sangat that emphasizes Gurmat study, kirtan, seva, and Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and the spirituality of our religion. :)
 

Odion

SPNer
Aug 21, 2009
11
13
God willing, I will do that. :)

I'm visiting as many Gurdwaras in my local area as possible, but there is one in particular that I am very fond of. :)
 

vsgrewal48895

Writer
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Mar 12, 2009
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Odion Ji Says “In my view Sikhism is more than hair and one who does not keep the five k's is still a Sikh; it is not a case of only Amritdhari and Keshdhari as being "real Sikhs" like I have heard a few people (not on here) say.”

Dear Odion Ji,

I concur with your above statement and here are my two cents on the subject;


Sikh/ ਸਿੱਖ
Sikh word has been used in Sabd Guru as student/pupil/teaching/or a tuft of hair or head -ਚੇਲਾ, ਵਿਦਆਰਥੀ, ਸ਼ਿਸ਼ਸ਼ਿਸ਼/ਸਿੱਖ ਦੀ/ਦਾ/ਨੂੰਸਿੱਖਿਆਸਿੱਖ/ਸਮਝ! ਬੋਦੀ, ਚੋਟੀ, ਸਿਰ

A Sikh is the student of truth who understands and live the teachings contained in Sabd Guru (AGGS) in word and spirit at each step of daily life. One must take these teachings until these take you. The mechanical recitation of Nitname and other rituals performed daily etc with out understanding are all superstitions with out any spiritual benefit or ਖੇਪ. It is the development of virtues which makes it a devotional worship says Guru Nanak in his Japji;

ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ
vi guė baga na ho¬ė.

Without virtue, there is no devotional worship.-----Guru Nanak, Japji, AGGS, Page, 4-16

Guru Nanak further advises on good and bad acts as the basis for Divine justice in Raag Ramkali;

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਸਿਖ ਸਹੀ ਲੇਖਾ ਰਬੁ ਮੰਗੇਸੀਆ ਬੈਠਾ ਕਢਿ ਵਹੀ
Nānak ākai rė manā suī¬ai sik sahī. Lėkā rab mangėsī¬ā baiṯẖā kad vahī.

O mind, listen to the True Teachings, Says Nanak, that God will call you to account by opening the ledger. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 953-13

ਮੂੰਡੁ ਮੁਡਾਇ ਜਟਾ ਸਿਖ ਬਾਧੀ ਮੋਨਿ ਰਹੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ ਮਨੂਆ ਡੋਲੈ ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਧਾਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਰਤ ਆਤਮ ਗਿਆਨਾ

Mūnd mudā¬ė jatā sikḏẖī mon rahai abimānā. Manū¬ā dolai ah is ḏẖāvai bin ra āam gi¬ānā.

Some shave their heads, some keep their hair in matted tangles; others observing silence are yet full of pride. Without loving devotion and enlightenment of the self their minds waver and wander in ten directions. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1013-5

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਹੋਵੈ ਤ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਸਿਖੁ ਕੋਈ ਜੀਅਹੁ ਰਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਲੇ ਆਪੁ ਛਡਿ ਸਦਾ ਰਹੈ ਪਰਣੈ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਏ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਸੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਏ

Kahai Nānak suhu sanahu so sik sanmuk ho¬ė.Jė ko sik gurū sėī sanmuk hovai. Hovai a sanmuk sik ko¬ī jī¬ahu rahai gur nālė. Āp cẖẖad saā rahai parai gur bin avar na jāai ko¬ė.

If a Sikh turns to the Guru with sincere faith, as sunmukh - his soul abides with the Guru. Renouncing selfishness and conceit, he remains always on the side of the Guru; he does not know anyone except the Guru. Says Nanak, listen, O Saints: such a Sikh turns toward the Guru with sincere faith, and becomes sunmukh. -----Guru Amardas, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 919-18 & 19, & 920-21

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ

Gur sagur kā jo sik akā­ė so balkė uṯẖ har nām ḏẖi­āvai. Uam karė balkė parbāī isnān karė amri sar nāvai. Upės gurū har har jap jāpai sab kilvik pāp ok leh jāvai. Fir caai ivas gurbāī gāvai bahi­ā uṯẖ­i­ā har nām ḏẖi­āvai. Jo sās girās ḏẖi­ā­ė mėrā har har so gursik gurū man bāvai. Jis no a­i­āl hovai mėrā su­āmī is gursik gurū upės suāvai. Jan Nānak ḏẖū mangai is gursik kī jo āp japai avrah nām japāvai.

One who calls himself a Sikh of the True Guru, shall rise early in the morning hours and meditate on the Akal Purkh's Name. Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar. Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Eternal Akal Purkh. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased. Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Name. One who meditates on my Eternal God, with every breath and every morsel of food - that Gur Sikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind. That person, unto whom my God and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that Gur Sikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed. Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that Gur Sikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. -----Guru Ramdas, Gauri Ki Var, AGGS, Page, 305

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਮਹਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਰਖਾਈ ਗੁਰੁ ਤੁਠਾ ਸਿਖ ਦੇਵੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ
Har har gur meh baga rakā¬ī. Gur uṯẖā sik ėvai mėrė bā¬ī.

The Akal Purkh has implanted Its devotional worship in the Guru. When the Guru is pleased, He bestows it upon His Sikh, O my siblings of Destiny. -----Guru Ramdas, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 367-12

Conclusion:

He who believes in One creator, equality for all, with understanding and deliberation of the Gur Bani contained in AGGS with reflection on its teachings in daily life is a Sikh. The practice of the Sikh faith at present is quite different than what is contained in AGGS on the subject as illustrated above. Of course Sikhs came out of Hindus and definitely did not drop from the sky as the selected ones. Sikh Gurus simplified the faith in One Creator for all and advised to get rid of empty superstitious rituals. Sikh faith is no religion IMHO, it is a set of principles if followed honestly and truthfully will make an individual a better human believing in human equality and finding God in him self says Nanak in his Japji;

ਮਤਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਤਨ ਜਵਾਹਰ ਮਾਣਿਕ ਜੇ ਇਕ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਿਖ ਸੁਣੀ
Ma vic raan javāhar māik jė ik gur kī sik suī.

Within the mind are gems, jewels and rubies, if you listen to the Guru's Teachings, even once. -----Guru Nanak, Japji, AGGS, Page, 2-12

ਜਾਗਤਿ ਜੋਤ ਜਪੈ ਨਿਸ ਬਾਸੁਰ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਨ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਆਨੈ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਸਜੈ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਗੋਰ ਮੜੀ ਮਟ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ਤੀਰਥ ਦਾਨ ਦਇਆ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹ ਏਕ ਪਛਾਨੈ ਪੂਰਨ ਜੋਤ ਜਗੈ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਖਾਲਸ ਤਾਹਿ ਨਖਾਲਸ ਜਾਨੈ
Jaagat Joat Japai Nis Basar Ayk Bina Man Naik Na Aanai.Pooran Prem Partit Sajai Barat Gor Marhi Matt Bhool Na Manai.Ttheerathh Daan Dayaa Tap Sanjam Ayk Binaa Neh Ayk Pashhaanai.Pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khaalas thaahi nakhaalas jaanai.

He, who remembers the ever-awakened Light throughout night and day and does not bring anyone else in the mind, and practices his vow with whole hearted affection and does not believe in even by oversight, the graves, Hindu monuments and monasteries; and does not recognize anyone else except One God, not even the bestowal of charities, performance of merciful acts, austerities and restraint on pilgrim-stations; the perfect light of the God illuminates his heart, then one comes to know immaculate Pure from impure.------Guru Gobind Singh Sawaeeya # 1, DG, Page, 712

Cordially,

Virinder
 

spnadmin

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Jun 17, 2004
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virinder ji

All that you have quoted below is quoted to promote the view that the kakkars are un-necessary. But in my opinion, this is undermining the importance of bani and banaa being complements to each other.

Amritdhari should not erect invisible barriers to the discovery of spirituality among sikhs who are not amridhari. By the same token, those who are not amritdhari should not create the impression that there are widespread antagonisms and the amritdhari persist with silent agendas that are crushing spiritual development on every front.

It has been my experience that the non-amritdhari contribute more than their share to what is essentially a false dichotomy, and one that only enhances needless divisions. There are already too many crises facing the panth for this one to fester on they way it does, with the help of partial shabads that create wrong impressions.

There is no justification in my humble opinion to your program of continually posting articles with the aim of convincing us that kesh or any other of the articles of Sikh faith are meaningless. They are not superficial distractions.

Odion ji, my remarks are not directed at you. Your issues are legitimate. Please understand that it is a very small percentage of people on both sides, amridthari and non-amritdhari who keep this controversy raging. And it is not healthy.
 

vsgrewal48895

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Mar 12, 2009
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Dear Narayanjot & Aman Ji,

I do not have any intention to create a division between any one who calls himself a Sikh. Each one has to work hard to grow in spirituality. It does not come automatically and should be left to the individual to get his/her mental peace of mind. It is the individual's action that defines him/her IMHO. We all have to agree to disagree on our own understandings of the issues for discussion.

I apologise if I hurt any one's feelings and pray for forgiveness.

ਕਬੀਰਾ ਜਹਾ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਤਹ ਧਰਮੁ ਹੈ ਜਹਾ ਝੂਠੁ ਤਹ ਪਾਪੁ ਜਹਾ ਲੋਭੁ ਤਹ ਕਾਲੁ ਹੈ ਜਹਾ ਖਿਮਾ ਤਹ ਆਪਿ Kabira Jahaa Gi-aan Tah Dharam Hai Jahaa Jhooth Tah Paap, Jaha Lobh Teh Kaal Hai Jaha Khima Teh Aap.

Kabir, where there is spiritual wisdom, there is righteousness. Where there is falsehood, there is sin. Where there is greed, there is death. Where there is forgiveness, there is God It self. -----Kabir Sloke # 155, AGGS, Page, 1372-15.
Respectfully Submitted.
Virinder
 

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