• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Cycles Of The Soul: Creation, Growth, Death Or Transformation Into Other Souls?

Aug 28, 2010
1,514
1,116
72
FINDINGMYWAYS Ji,

I may be excused if I bring to your kind notice that the SABAD posted is incomplete.
A salient feature of this SABAD is that there is no Tuk of RAHAO.

The full SABAD has headings as DIN RAINin RAAG MANJH 5

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
FINDINGMYWAYS Ji,

I may be excused if I bring to your kind notice that the SABAD posted is incomplete.
A salient feature of this SABAD is that there is no Tuk of RAHAO.

The full SABAD has headings as DIN RAINin RAAG MANJH 5

Prakash.S.Bagga

prakash s bagga ji

Hope we are looking at the same verses. The shabad is very long and is broken into vaars/paurees of approximately 8 to 10 verses each. It begins on Ang 136 by Guru Arjan Dev, and is entitled ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਦਿਨ ਰੈਣਿ Maajh Mehalaa 5 Dhin Rain, Maajh, Fifth Mehl: Day And Night. It begins

ਸੇਵੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਆਪਣਾ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰੀ ਦਿਨ ਸਭਿ ਰੈਣ ॥
Saevee Sathigur Aapanaa Har Simaree Dhin Sabh Rain ||
I serve my True Guru, and meditate on Him all day and night.


The Dhin Rain you cite is not the beginning of the verses/shabad under discussion. Under discussion is what is on Ang 137.

A. Dhin Rain J Prabh Kano Saevadhae Thin Kai Sadh Balihaar ||2|| comes to a full stop ll2ll marking an ending.Here it is


ਦਿਨੁ ਰੈਣਿ ਜਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੰਉ ਸੇਵਦੇ ਤਿਨ ਕੈ ਸਦ ਬਲਿਹਾਰ ॥੨॥
Dhin Rain J Prabh Kano Saevadhae Thin Kai Sadh Balihaar ||2||
I am forever a sacrifice to those who serve God, day and night. ||2||


It does not come at beginning of the next pauree, which findingmyway has posted.

B. findingmyway then picks up with Santh Araadhhan Sadh Sadhaa Sabhanaa Kaa Bakhasindh as follows:

ਸੰਤ ਅਰਾਧਨਿ ਸਦ ਸਦਾ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਬਖਸਿੰਦੁ ॥
Santh Araadhhan Sadh Sadhaa Sabhanaa Kaa Bakhasindh
The Saints worship and adore Him forever and ever; He is the Forgiver of all.


C. This shabad/pauree ends with Dhin Rain and a full stop ll3ll at

ਦਿਨੁ ਰੈਣਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਨ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਸੋ ਹਰਿਆ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੰਤੁ ॥੩॥
Dhin Rain Jis N Visarai So Hariaa Hovai Janth ||3||
One who does not forget Him, day and night, is continually rejuvenated. ||3||


Dhin Rain is at the end of each, at ll2ll and at ll3ll
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,384
5,690
findingmyway ji and spnadmin ji I thank you greatly for your contribution. When I see a contribution I feel obliged to put in effort so deserving. It is a joy for me too as I develop understanding.


spnadmin ji thank you also in providing gurbani and shabad structure guidance and supportive environment.

In recognizing Professor Sahib Singh ji's Darpan I have noted in red my notion of understanding in the below,



Ambarsaria ji,
This can easily become a thread of opinions. A good way forward might be to post gurbani and relate that to what Guruji is telling us about the soul. This was attempted a few months ago but people quickly became overwhelmed with the number of references to the soul. I think you have a good chance of success with the high level of analysis you bring to judgement.

Here's a shabad to get us started from Ang 137. I am posting the given English translation as I eagerly await your interpretation, I do not necessarily agree with the translation here.

ਸੰਤ ਅਰਾਧਨਿ ਸਦ ਸਦਾ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਬਖਸਿੰਦੁ ॥ Santh Araadhhan Sadh Sadhaa Sabhanaa Kaa Bakhasindh ||
The Saints worship and adore Him forever and ever; He is the Forgiver of all.

The truthful always worship one that provided and blessed all.


ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਦਿਤੀਨੁ ਜਿੰਦੁ ॥ Jeeo Pindd Jin Saajiaa Kar Kirapaa Dhitheen Jindh ||
He fashioned the soul and the body, and by His Kindness, He bestowed the soul.

One who created body and with grace provided life therein.


ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਆਰਾਧੀਐ ਜਪੀਐ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਮੰਤੁ ॥ Gur Sabadhee Aaraadhheeai Japeeai Niramal Manth ||
Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, worship and adore Him, and chant His Pure Mantra.

Guru’s shabad be adored and recounted in pure truth,


ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਹਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਈਐ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਬੇਅੰਤੁ ॥ Keemath Kehan N Jaaeeai Paramaesur Baeanth ||
His Value cannot be evaluated. The Transcendent Lord is endless.

There is no value to ascribe as creator is limitless.


ਜਿਸੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਰਾਇਣੋ ਸੋ ਕਹੀਐ ਭਗਵੰਤੁ ॥ Jis Man Vasai Naraaeino So Keheeai Bhagavanth ||
That one, within whose mind the Lord abides, is said to be most fortunate.

One mind which is imbued with creator understanding is to be called fortunate.


ਜੀਅ ਕੀ ਲੋਚਾ ਪੂਰੀਐ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਕੰਤੁ ॥ Jeea Kee Lochaa Pooreeai Milai Suaamee Kanth ||
The soul's desires are fulfilled, upon meeting the Master, our Husband Lord.

The soul’s yearning is fulfilled as the creator is met.


ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜੀਵੈ ਜਪਿ ਹਰੀ ਦੋਖ ਸਭੇ ਹੀ ਹੰਤੁ ॥ Naanak Jeevai Jap Haree Dhokh Sabhae Hee Hanth ||
Nanak lives by chanting the Lord's Name; all sorrows have been erased.

Living through and recognizing the creator all ailments are removed.


ਦਿਨੁ ਰੈਣਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਨ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਸੋ ਹਰਿਆ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੰਤੁ ॥੩॥ Dhin Rain Jis N Visarai So Hariaa Hovai Janth ||3||
One who does not forget Him, day and night, is continually rejuvenated. ||3||

One who does not forget, day or night, becomes spiritually evergreen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ref: Professor Sahib Singh ji PDF (pg 569/6288)



pdArQ:- ArwDin—AwrwDdy hn [ sd—sdw [ bKisMdu—bKSx vwlw [ jIau—ijMd, jIvwqmw [ ipMfu—srIr [ ijin—ijs (prmwqmw) ny [ idqInu—idqI auin, aus ny id`qI hY [ jpIAY—jpxw cwhIdw hY [ mMqu—mMqr, jwp [ min—mn ivc [ nrwiexo—nrwiexu [ BgvMqu—BwgW vwlw [ jIA kI—ijMd dI [ locw—qWG [ doK—pwp [ hMqu—nws ho jWdy hn [ hirAw—Awqmk jIvn vwlw (ijvyN su`kw hoieAw ru`K pwxI nwl hrw ho jWdw hY, ijaU pYNdw hY) [3[

ArQ:- ijs (prmwqmw) ny (sB jIvW dI) ijMd swjI hY (sB dw) srIr pYdw kIqw hY, imhr kr ky (sB ƒ) ijMd id`qI hY, jo sB jIvW au~qy b^SSW krn vwlw hY, ijs ƒ sMq jn sdw hI AwrwDdy hn, gurU dy Sbd dI rwhIN aus dw ismrn krnw cwhIdw hY aus dw pivqR jwp jpxw cwhIdw hY [ auh prmwqmw sB qoN vfw mwlk (eISr) hY, aus dy guxW dw AMq nhIN pY skdw, aus dw mu`l nhIN pwieAw jw skdw [ ijs mnu`K ƒ nwh idny nwh rwq iksy vyly BI prmwqmw nhIN Buldw aus dy swry pwp nws ho jWdy hn, auh mnu`K Awqmk jIvn vwlw ho jWdw hY (ijvyN pwxI KuxoN su`k irhw ru`K pwxI nwl hrw ho jWdw hY) [3[


Bottomline:

The shabad is wonderful. It guides us that the creator provides us with a body and life. In life your mind spawns the soul which connects to the creator’s supreme soul through understanding of the creator’s virtues, which one will never fully understand as these virtues being limitless. So always remembering the creator and working in consonance with the developed understanding, one’s living becomes evergreen.

So for me the following is the flow,
A shell or body is created ----> The body is enabled with Life --------> the enabled body has mind -----> mind enables the understanding of the creator (1) -----> the understanding is the manifestation of your soul ------> your actions in life may or may not be governed by your understanding or soul -----> and this will differentiate the degrees of "manmukh" and "Gurmukh"​
Note (1): The understanding of the creator continues to evolve over time. Hence the level of understanding continues to improve for those who so choose to avail themselves of this.
Example 1: Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji gives us a higher basis of enlightenment versus if one were to do everything alone.

Example 2: A manmukh caring for a new child, can conversely hamper understanding of the creator through wrong information, mis-guidance or prevention of access to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Example 3: Excessive mis-guidance through babeys, sants, mahants, so called fake Gurus could potentially badly damage learning of the truth faculties in their followers if not totally damage them permanently for a life time.
Sat Sri Akal
 
Aug 28, 2010
1,514
1,116
72
AMBARSARIA JI,

Your Bottomline remarks are superb and excellent.
I congratulate you for such wonderful interpretation.
I am convinced you can do wonders in prestation when you get to realise the contentof any SABAD. This is manifested in your style of analysis.

With best wishes

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

findingmyway

Writer
SPNer
Aug 17, 2010
1,665
3,778
World citizen!
Ambarsaria ji,
Wonderful! Thank you. What I'm getting from this is soul is part of our life and also part of Waheguru? Have I understood right?

I've noticed on several of your posts that I cannot read half the Gurmukhi fonts. Which website are they from? Thanks.

Lets explore more shabads to gain a better understanding of the soul. Any suggestions :grinningkaur:
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
findingmyway ji

The font is Raavi. I can read it OK, and never had a problem. Which is a mystery because the font is not on the SPN list of supported fonts.

Why not try to install that font and see if you can read it too. Thanks for mentioning this as I wonder if there are other members who cannot read the font and are seeing an ASCII code instead.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,384
5,690
Ambarsaria ji,
Wonderful! Thank you. What I'm getting from this is soul is part of our life and also part of Waheguru? Have I understood right?

I've noticed on several of your posts that I cannot read half the Gurmukhi fonts. Which website are they from? Thanks.

Lets explore more shabads to gain a better understanding of the soul. Any suggestions :grinningkaur:
findingmyway ji thanks for your feedback.

Some finer points,


  • What I'm getting from this is soul is part of our life
    • Yes
      • But it is related to its richness and completeness based on the understanding of Waheguru by each of us
        • No one has less soul or more soul
          • it is the level of understanding
          • and their actions reflective of the understanding which determine,
          • whether,
            • they are wasting away their soul or Creator's gift
            • or putting it to good use to become "Gurmukh"
            • or putting it to be bad use/ignoring it/stopping its nourishment/growth/etc., to become "Manmukh"
      • Focus is,
        • Understanding and not just the word "Waheguru"

  • and also part of Waheguru?
    • Yes
      • Greater than the word is the "understanding of the word"
Thus two people or more sharing understanding are effecting each others souls. One may be gone but the effect will still be there in others and vice versa through the ages in the past and into the future.

So people say "Souls don't die", I suppose this makes sense to me now at least as to how!" Unless there are some genetic breakthroughs I do believe however that at birth we start with a brand new slate or a fresh soul with no limitations and everyone equal to any other. If science proves other wise I will have no difficulty accepting as we already know how rest of the bodily genetic is linked to the past.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: Yes this font thingy drives me nuts. If I cut and paste from Professor Sahib Singh ji's Darpan, the Gurbani accents get mixed up, and I think it is something to do with auto font recognition in word, etc. I have not found a way to fix it. Very frustrating at times as I don't want to post wrong words of Gurbani even though they are correct in one document but when posted become bad!

Check out the <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->Sidh Gosht thread I added something of a draft.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
PS: Yes this font thingy drives me nuts. If I cut and paste from Professor Sahib Singh ji's Darpan, the Gurbani accents get mixed up, and I think it is something to do with auto font recognition in word, etc. I have not found a way to fix it. Very frustrating at times as I don't want to post wrong words of Gurbani even though they are correct in one document but when posted become bad!

I think the work-around is to use the Professor Sahib Singh teeka at http://www.srigranth.org.

Find the shabad and then look up to the right hand corner. You will see where you can select among other things the "teeka" of choice, either Professor Sahib Singh, or the Faridkhot teeka. Make your selection and the commentary will appear below the translation. Copy that text, and paste it. You avoid the problems that occur with other copies of the GGD on the web.

Example: http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=1

See if that is better. :)
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,384
5,690
spnadmin ji I work off-line for most posts and usually have separate PDFs trying to compare and then understand. Parts of the Darpan work fine it is the Gurbani lines which mix up in the Darpan .pdf from GurbaniCD.

Thanks,

Sat Sri Akal.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
You can also get the gurbani lines using srigranth. Check the link. The shabad is always just above the commentary. Both will always be in the AmmoLipi font.
 
📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:

Latest Activity

Top