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Islam Creation In Islam

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azizrasul

SPNer
Aug 3, 2007
105
0
which gurmat and today science rejects completely
Sorry I didn't understand. What does science reject?

on the other hand you say God addressing Mohd (peace be upon him).
Both are the case, i.e. God gave His message to mankind thru Gabriel (peace be upon him), which was then revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) who gave it to man.

God is formless, imageless, only a jot
Based on what evidence?

In Guru Nanak’s philosophy there is neither ‘Satan nor ‘holy spirit’ or any other power that could stand against Him and if there is anyone equal to Him, then it means there are two God. Where number two starts, universe starts and He does not come under any count because He is the only One. He has no other as gurbani tells 'tisai sareek nahi rai koi.' He has no partner, helper. manager or satan. The biggest philosophical difference between semitic religions and gurmat is when it says, ‘no ko hoa na ko hey – that even God cannot create one more God even he wishes so.
I was referring to Islamic philosophy not Guru Nanak’s philosophy. Also I did not suggest that Satan or the Holy Spirit (Gabriel (peace be upon him)) were equal to Allah. There is only ONE Creator - Allah.

believing in multiple Gods
Muslims don't believe in multiple gods. You are making a fundamentaal mistake here. Please read my post carefully and you will see what I was saying. God has given Satan respite to tempt man on the wrong path whilst those who have faith in Allah can fight this temptation.

hollow rituals, fasting, castiesm, worshipping of idols, four marriage, hajj, pilgrrimages, sacrifices of animal etc. and I don’t follow anything which does not teach praise of the One Creator, except You.. This I am not saying but you are directing me to say O God ”. In similar way in gurbani Guru Nanak complains, ‘veda main naam uttam so sunai nahi phirai jo betalia - no body is following the beautiful and supreme NAAM recommended in Vedas but like to do hollow rituals and are thus wandering like animals here and there.

In similar way gurbani rejects WORD of GOD as stated by you about Adam and Eve version. As per gurbani creation was HIS mauj and without mother and father union no one can take birth.
What hollow rituals are u referring to? fasting is a blessing to man IF you understand the purpose behind it. Similarly for Hajj and 4 marriages etc. in Islam. Without understanding the details in these and other issues, you can't judge. Also ISLAM teaches us to PRAISE and GLORIFY Allah.

I may not have time to reply to you today if u post back, but will try next weekend, God willing.
 

japjisahib04

Mentor
SPNer
Jan 22, 2005
822
1,294
kuwait
Sorry I didn't understand. What does science reject?

Tell me sincrely is this angles UFO? What was their mode of transport or communication. Are these angles realized soul and or minister of Almighty (similar to Hindu's mythological dieties Brahma, vishnu and mahesh for creation, sustainer and justice) to transport His message to Prophet Mohd. Is angle Gaberiel alive or after passing message he died. Does this fit any where logically. Today's student demand logical answer.


Aziz Q. Both are the case, i.e. God gave His message to mankind thru Gabriel (peace be upon him), which was then revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) who gave it to man.

A. Why God had to appoint intermediatory. Why he couldn't do it direct. How and where Gabriel revealed the message to Prop.Mohd. What did Prophet Mohd do to receive this message. Was Gabriel coming in dream or practically landing on earth. How was he communicating by written piece of paper or by speaking. Anyone witnesses

Aziz Q. Based on what evidence? I was referring to Islamic philosophy not Guru Nanak’s philosophy. Also I did not suggest that Satan or the Holy Spirit (Gabriel (peace be upon him)) were equal to Allah. There is only ONE Creator - Allah.

A. Is Gabriel a myth. If Gabriel was not equal to Allah. Then was he his minster. Do God require assitance from anyone to perform or pass message?

Aziz Q. Muslims don't believe in multiple gods. You are making a fundamentaal mistake here. Please read my post carefully and you will see what I was saying. God has given Satan respite to tempt man on the wrong path whilst those who have faith in Allah can fight this temptation.

A. I didn't say muslim believe in multiple God. On the contrary muslim believe in One God only like sikhs. The only question is how does this satan looks like. Who were satan parents? Why God has to give respite to satan. Was SATAN that powerful and dangerous that God was scared from him. How can I recognize Him if he comes in front of me.


Aziz Q. What hollow rituals are u referring to? fasting is a blessing to man IF you understand the purpose behind it. Similarly for Hajj and 4 marriages etc. in Islam. Without understanding the details in these and other issues, you can't judge. Also ISLAM teaches us to PRAISE and GLORIFY Allah.

A. Hollow ritual are those which bears no fruit. Can you kindly tell me how fasting is a blessing to a man. So that if not religiously, logically I start fasting. In similar way I would like to know how Hajj and 4 marriages are blessing or helpful for the mankind to raise himself to spirituality.

Best regards Sahni Mohinder
 

Sherab

SPNer
Mar 26, 2007
441
20
USA
Azizi-ji,

Asaalam Alaekam.

My question is:

In hebrew bible, how do you deal with the hebrew words ELHOIM meaning "gods" as in many gods making the world as per Genesis chapter one, and then switching to ADNI in Genesis chapter two?

And how, if at all does this relate to the Quran's view?

Xuda hafiz,
Surinderjit
 

Vikram singh

SPNer
Feb 24, 2005
455
418
very interesting news,they are coming out of their shell slowly,l
awareness is a must

Run Date: 09/24/07 By Aditi Bhaduri
WeNews correspondent After years of silence, Muslim women in India are loudly battling repressive religious laws. The case of one semi-literate woman, a survivor of rape, ignited their cause. Second in a series on the changing role of women in India.

NEW DELHI (WOMENSENEWS)--Frail, exhausted, illiterate Imrana is one woman among tens of thousands in the many villages of India.
Yet Imrana--in rural India women are often known only by their first names--is becoming a symbol of change and resilience for Muslim women across the country.
In June 2005 the 28-year-old mother of five from the village of Charthawal in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh complained to her husband, Nur Ilahi, a rickshaw puller, of being raped by her father-in-law, Ali Mohammed, while her husband was absent.
Even though India is a secular country, Muslim leaders insist on following Sharia, or Islamic law, in such personal affairs as marriage, divorce and inheritance. It was to this system of justice that Imrana first turned.
The village council--composed of five male village elders--ruled that her marriage be dissolved because Imrana had become "haram" (sinful) since she had entered into a relationship with her husband's father. In Indian villages that lack formal courts, these elders often act as judge and jury though they have no official jurisdiction other than the esteem that local people allow them.
The Darul ul Uloom Madrasa, an Islamic seminary in the town of Deoband with an influence among Muslims in South Asia, upheld the verdict, issuing a fatwa, or religious edict, that echoed the council's ruling.
No consideration was given to the coercive nature of Imrana's sexual relationship with Ali Mohammed.
The All India Muslim Personal Law Board, a national arbiter of Islamic affairs established in 1973 and stocked with 41 Islamic scholars, also endorsed this verdict.
But for all its endorsements, the verdict backfired.
Women's groups vigorously rallied around Imrana to fight the verdict and seek justice in a secular court.
In October 2006 a local, secular court sentenced Ali Mohammed to an eight-year prison term for the rape and ordered payment of 8,000 rupees (about $170) as compensation to Imrana.
He has appealed the verdict to a higher state court and women's groups around India now eagerly wait for the ruling.
Establishing New Precedent

Imrana's refusal to succumb to clerical pressure is an important precedent for Muslim women, says Saba Ali Osman, a Muslim journalist based in New Delhi. "Religion should not be made an issue," she says. "Rape is a crime and should be punished as that."
Constituting 13 percent of the country's population at over 140 million, India's Muslims form the world's second largest Muslim community. They have staunchly maintained their Muslim identity, resisting innovations or modernizing influences, and have lower-than-average literacy rates, which helps insulate them from progressive forces within Islam, such as online communities, and broader social changes taking place in rapidly developing India.
For women, this means one of the most restrictive cultures in the Muslim world.
In Muslim India a man can still divorce his wife by the simple expedient of repeating "Talaq" three times, while a woman has no recourse.
Polygamy is legal, along with a low marriage age--at attainment of puberty--for girls.
Many of these practices have been banned or reformed in progressive Muslim majority countries such as Turkey, Tunisia and Morocco.
Case Sends Shock Waves

But Imrana's case sent shock waves through the community.
After the village council verdict and fatwa ordering Imrana's divorce, the All India Muslim Women's Personal Law Board--formed by female activists in 2005 in Lucknow, a city with a strong Muslim heritage and sizeable Muslim community--immediately rejected it and warned that it would invoke the country's secular penal code against those who had issued it.
Subhashini Ali, president of the All India Democratic Women's Association, affiliated with the Communist Party of India, recruited about 1,500 women, mostly Muslims, to swarm around Ali Mohammed's house in June 2005 to protest both the crime and the fatwa.
"This was the very first women's demonstration in this village," she told Women's eNews. "We made it clear that we demand humanitarian laws rather than religious ones."
The women marched to the district court, demanding that justice be meted out. Consequently, the local police soon arrested Imrana's father-in-law and charged him with the criminal offense of rape.
The protestors also demanded that local Sharia courts be dismantled.
Two nongovernmental groups in Uttar Pradesh that assist Muslim women, Astitva and Disha, helped Imrana to lodge a case with the police and to undergo a medical test to prove rape.
"It was not easy to convince a semi-literate woman to take such steps," says Astitva's director, Rehana Adib, who personally accompanied Imrana to the police and the doctor. "But Imrana displayed enormous courage."
Steady Stream of Protests

Since the time that Imrana's case became public in 2005, women's groups across the country have organized a steady stream of protests, demonstrations and petitions in solidarity with her and against fatwas in general.
Under that pressure the All India Muslim Personal Law Board, which advocates for greater rights for Muslim women, began distancing itself from the ruling of the Sharia court and the fatwa-issuing Deoband seminary. The group stopped issuing media statements and has not commented on women's activism. The Deobold seminary also denied that the fatwa was related to Imrana's case, saying that it was an independent act of two clerics, who were later dismissed, and was not an official opinion.
And this past January Imrana's case helped spur the formation of the Indian Muslim Women's Movement, a national movement of female Muslim activists spread out over 13 states in India with 2,000 registered members.
But Muslim female activists have also been hurt.
Imrana, Adib and other activists have been receiving death threats from members of the Muslim clergy and community in the state. A week after Imrana first filed charges with the police about 70 Muslim clerics led a protest march against her and her supporters, alleging that their actions were un-Islamic.
For reasons of safety, Adib and others have for the past year donned the burka whenever they leave home.
Meanwhile, the chair of the Sharia court that issued the fatwa, Maulana Imran, maintained that Nur Ilahi should divorce his wife, but the couple has ignored the ruling.
Imrana and her husband moved into her mother's home in another village, Kokrajhar. The All India Democratic Women's Association has bought the couple a small plot of land and they are trying to construct a house on it.
Aditi Bhaduri is a gender consultant and a journalist based in India.
Women's eNews welcomes your comments. E-mail us at
 

Vikram singh

SPNer
Feb 24, 2005
455
418

Check this video
The Quran allows men to beat their wives.


QURAN 4:34 - "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."

YouTube - How to beat your Muslim wife
 

ProjectNaad

SPNer
Sep 4, 2007
30
1
Hi Aziz,

I looked through about half the videos before of Zakir Naik. The videos by Dr Zakir Naik were laughable. The theme was why is “Islam growing in the West” and this was the summary:
1)Earning interest on money is Haram and was started by English and speard around the world by westerers. (Even though Quaran was written long before the British empire or before traditional westernism)


ProjectNaad: Islamic countries are so many yet Islamic economics if it was so great has done little to show its greatness. Also Dr Naik says that Muslims must oppose all people who use interest based financial systems....no wonder Muslims hate the west!


2)The problem of surplus women. Islam solution is to marry multiple women! Lots of stats were given



ProjectNaad:but here is the real statistic gives the median worldwide percentage of

men as higher than women! http://esa.un.org/unpp/p2k0data.asp


3)Theft is forbidden. And the punishment for a thief is to cut of his or her hands. This was backed up by the fact that theft is very low in e.g. Saudi Arabia and so you create a situation where no one dares to commit theft due to the penalty.



ProjectNaad: Interesting but a bit freakin harsh! Imagne the child who has nothing

to eat and steals food to eat...

4)Zakat. If every rich gives this 2.5% then there will be no poverty in the world



ProjectNaad: Yes maybe! But Sikhism encourages its followers to give one tenth of

income to the greater good and Sikhism is UNIQUE in running free kitchens for ONE

and ALL. A much more practical solution to world hunger. Also with 1 billion Muslims

in the world. They can't even look after their own lot i.e. all the Muslims dieing in

Africa. So much for ending world suffering. At least Sikhs can say that in the parts

of India in which they live there is little to no hungry people, yet in other states of

India people do die of starvation.



5)Men should not rape or molest women and Islam shows you how to achieve this through Hijab and by hiding the beauty of women! If a Man sees a woman then he should lower his gaze etc etc.

ProjectNaad: All religions teach modesty, humility and respect. But to suggest that women who do not cover their head are inviting rapsist is a little of the mark. Also Dr Naik didn't mention the other sily laws aroound rape such as 3 witneses. Also read the article about the rape victim who got lashes because she was alone with a man who she was not married to!....this is islamic law

http://www.dhushara.com/book/sakina/stoningetc/hijabrape.htm
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/11/06/saudi-court-sentences-rape-victim-to-90-lashes/



This is where I stopped watching further videos...I've heard enough nonsense being passed of as God revelation.

www.ProjectNaad.com
 
Feb 20, 2005
8
1
Dear Vijaydeep Singh Ji,

Yes we do respect all religions and that includes Islam. It is a wonderful religion. But tell me how come Gurmat or Sikhism is 73rd sect of Islam???
 

azizrasul

SPNer
Aug 3, 2007
105
0
EID MUBARAK to everyone.

Tell me sincrely is this angles UFO? What was their mode of transport or communication. Are these angles realized soul and or minister of Almighty (similar to Hindu's mythological dieties Brahma, vishnu and mahesh for creation, sustainer and justice) to transport His message to Prophet Mohd. Is angle Gaberiel alive or after passing message he died. Does this fit any where logically. Today's student demand logical answer.
Angels are angels, not UFO’s. They are made of light. Angels do the work that God commands them. As regard to mode of transport, Allah All-Knowing knows best. What counts is that they can travel vast distances very quickly. Each set of angels have different tasks e.g. there are angels of punishment who will punish the residents of hell-fire, there are angels who record our deeds, etc. Gabriel (peace be upon him) is among other things the angel of revelation and is alive. Allah only gives us some knowledge and hence the logic u want answers to will come in the hereafter, insha-allah.


A. Why God had to appoint intermediatory. Why he couldn't do it direct. How and where Gabriel revealed the message to Prop.Mohd. What did Prophet Mohd do to receive this message. Was Gabriel coming in dream or practically landing on earth. How was he communicating by written piece of paper or by speaking. Anyone witnesses
Gabriel (peace be upon him) came to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in the shape of a man (although he was seen by the Prophet (peace be upon him) on Earth in his true form on two occasions). What’s wrong about have an intermediary? The message was revealed in stages orally wherever the Prophet (peace be upon him) was. The verses were memorized by the Prophet (peace be upon him) who then gave it one of many scribes. Zahid bin Thabit was the well known scribe. Whether there were any witnesses, I don’t know.


A. Is Gabriel a myth. If Gabriel was not equal to Allah. Then was he his minster. Do God require assitance from anyone to perform or pass message?
No he is not a myth. Angels like men and Jinn do Allah’s work. So what?


The only question is how does this satan looks like. Who were satan parents? Why God has to give respite to satan. Was SATAN that powerful and dangerous that God was scared from him. How can I recognize Him if he comes in front of me.
I don’t know what he looks like, nor do I care and is pretty irrelevant. U don’t know what I look like but u can still communicate with me. Don’t know Satan’s parents. Why would u want 2 know? God has given respite to Satan so that he is able to tempt us. Without this respite he would not be able to do that and we would not be tested. God is not scared of any of His creation, don’t know where u get that from. Satan does come to us in physical form but whispers in our minds.


1. Say (O Muhammad, to mankind): I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind,
2. The King of mankind,
3. The God of mankind,
4. From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper), -
5. Who whispereth in the hearts of mankind,
6. Among Jinns and among men.
Qur’an - Surah an-Naas (Mankind) 114:1-6

A. Hollow ritual are those which bears no fruit. Can you kindly tell me how fasting is a blessing to a man. So that if not religiously, logically I start fasting. In similar way I would like to know how Hajj and 4 marriages are blessing or helpful for the mankind to raise himself to spirituality.
I’m sure there are many hollow rituals and blind rituals that bear no fruit. However fasting gives us benefit in this life and in the hereafter. Fasting as I have already explained in this thread allows Muslims to control their desires so that after the month is over they can continue to control their desires in things which are unlawful in Islam i.e. remain close to our Creator by obtaining taqwa. In the hereafter the Muslims will also be rewarded. Have a look at this article. Hajj if performed correctly in action and intention results in the forgiveness of all sins made against God. Since there is on average more women to men, up to 4 marriages are allowed within strict conditions. This prevents promiscuity and illicit affairs. Islam is not just about spirituality but about practical way of life free from sin.


1)Earning interest on money is Haram and was started by English and speard around the world by westerers. (Even though Quaran was written long before the British empire or before traditional westernism)
Which YouTube video did u get this from?


Your link on item 2 does not work. Men don’t marry more than once just because there is a surplus of women. U got the wrong end of the stick here. Islam allowed Muslim men to marry up to 4 women as a result of female orphan women who had little or attraction for men to marry. Also there are strict conditions before a man can marry more than 1 woman.

3)Theft is forbidden. And the punishment for a thief is to cut of his or her hands. This was backed up by the fact that theft is very low in e.g. Saudi Arabia and so you create a situation where no one dares to commit theft due to the penalty.
There is punishment for stealing in every country. The cutting of the hand is for extreme cases. Glad u appreciate the low rate of theft in KSA.


ProjectNaad: Interesting but a bit freakin harsh! Imagne the child who has nothing to eat and steals food to eat...
People below the age of puberty are not punished for stealing. As I said the cutting of hands is for extreme cases. There are 25 examples of theft in which no punishment is given, u’ve given 1 of those examples.


Yes maybe!
Why just maybe. Also Zakat is just form of charity. There is another unlimited charity called sadaqa. The 2.5% is for those Muslims who do not share their wealth with the needy. If Muslims shared their wealth with poor Muslims then there would be no need to give 2.5%. Hence a Muslim who gives money as a loan without interest to help a poor person, is exempt from the Zakat. Sadaqa can be any amount and can be given to Muslims and non Muslims. Charity in Islam is not just about money. Treating people kindly is also a form of charity.


At least Sikhs can say that in the parts of India in which they live there is little to no hungry people
Not what I saw when I was in Amritsar in 1998!!!!!!!! Maybe things have changed now but I somehow doubt it. In fact look how the dalgits are treated in certain parts of India by the Hindus. Disgraceful.


Also with 1 billion Muslims in the world. They can't even look after their own lot i.e. all the Muslims dieing in Africa.
There are more than 1 billion Muslims and increasing daily. Praise be to Allah. Muslims are dying in Africa for many reasons that has nothing to do with other Muslims. For example, some African countries are not run by Muslims and the west will not open trade links with them as Bono and Bob Geldof wanted some years ago. There are many Muslim charities that are obtaining money from Muslims around the world and are helping as much as they can. If u have a situation in Iraq for example, the west has illegally invaded and occupied the country and is trying to split it up and killed over 650,000 Muslims and left broken families. Also the sanctions against Iraq which killed 1,000,000 people of which 500,000 were children. Charity can only do so much. If Muslims were left alone by the West and Hindus, then the Muslims would be able to look after themselves thank u very much. We are not asking u to help.
 

azizrasul

SPNer
Aug 3, 2007
105
0
The Creator - Allah

The Arabic name for God is Allah, meaning ‘the God’. The word Allah does not have a plural and is genderless. Allah does not have any associate or partner, and He does not beget nor was He begotten. The common message of Islam throughout man’s history through all the prophets is the belief and acceptance of the one universal creator.

And your Allah is One Allah: There is no god but He, Most Beneficent, Most Merciful.
Qur’an - Surah al-Baqara (The Heifer) 2:163 Compare similar verses in the Old and New Testaments.

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is ONE.”
The Old Testament - Deuteronomy 6:4 See also Deuteronomy 4:29, 4:35, 5:6-9, Isaiah 43:11, 45:5-6, 46:9 & Exodus 20:2-5.

“And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord”
The New Testament - Mark 12:29 See also John 5:30, Matthew 5:17.

When someone asked Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) the nature of Allah, in answer to this, chapter 112 of the Qur’an was revealed.

The following Qur’anic verse is referred to as the Verse of the Throne (Ayat-ul-Kursi).

Allah! There is no deity save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous.
Qur’an - Surah al-Baqara (The Heifer) 2:255
51. Allah hath said: Choose not two gods. There is only One Allah. So of Me, Me only, be in awe.
52. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth, and religion is His for ever. Will ye then fear any other than Allah?
Qur’an – Surah an-Nahl (The Bee) 16:51-2

Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.
Qur’an - Surah Fussilat (Explained in Detail) 41:37

If Allah helps you, none can overcome you: If He forsakes you, who is there, after that, that can help you? In Allah, then, let believers put their trust.
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:160

28. Who have believed and whose hearts have rest in the remembrance of Allah. Verily in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest!
29. Those who believe and do right: Joy is for them, and bliss (their) journey's end.
Qur’an - Surah ar-Ra`ad (The Thunder) 13:28-9

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth...
Qur’an - Surah an-Nur (The Light) 24:35

The characteristics of Allah are given by his many attributes. Each of these attributes is given in the Qur’an.

The most beautiful names belong to Allah: so call on him by them;
Qur’an - Surah al-A`raaf (The Heights) 7:180 See also 17:110 and 20:8.

30. Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god; - Who knows (all things) both secret and open; He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
31. He is Allah, besides Whom there is no god; the King, the Holy, the Giver of peace, the Granter of security, Guardian over all, the Mighty, the Supreme, the Possessor of every greatness Glory be to Allah from what they set up (with Him).
32. He is Allah the Creator, the Maker, the Fashioner; His are the most excellent names; whatever is in the heavens and the earth declares His glory; and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
Qur’an - Surah al-Hashr (The Exile) 59:22-4

He is the First and the Last, and the Outward and the Inward; and He is Knower of all things.
Qur’an - Surah al-Hadid (The Iron) 57:3

Some of these attributes are – Al Ghaffar (The Forgiver), Al Razzaq (The Provider), Al 'Alim (The Knower), Al 'Adil (The Just), Al Hakim (The Wise), Al Huqq (The Truth), Al Mubdi' (The Originator), Al Ahad (The One), At Tawwab (The Acceptor of Repentance), An Nur (The Light), As Sabr (The Patient), Al Hamid (The Praiseworthy), Al Jalil (The Majestic), Al Khaliq (The Creator), Al Aziz (The Mighty), Al Sami (The All-Hearing), Al Basir (The All-Seeing), Al Wadud (The Loving), Al Muhyi (The Giver of Life), etc.

Most of the attributes are mentioned in the Qur’an (the Final scripture from God).
 

azizrasul

SPNer
Aug 3, 2007
105
0
The House of God


The Ka’abah is built in Bakkah (the ancient name of Makkah), Arabia as the first place of worship dedicated to the One God by Adam (peace be upon him) and Archangel Gabriel (peace be upon him). The structure is an empty roofless rectangular shell with a ground level open doorway. They go around the Ka’abah seven times symbolising and focusing on their worship of the One God.

Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah, full of blessing, and guidance for the peoples.
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:96

Allah made the Ka'abah, the Sacred House, an asylum of security for men.
Qur’an - Surah al-Ma’aida (The Table Spread) 5:97

But what plea have they that Allah should not punish them, when they keep out (men) from the Sacred Masjid - and they are not its guardians? No men can be its guardians except the righteous; but most of them do not understand.
Qur’an - Surah al-Anfal (The Spoils of War) 8:34

Let them adore the Lord of this House.
Qur’an - Surah Quraish 106:3

Many centuries later Abraham (Arabic - Ibrahim) and his son Ishmael (Arabic – Isma’il) rebuilt the Ka’abah on the very same spot as Adam and Gabriel (peace be upon them) had built.

Literally, Ka’abah in Arabic means a high place with respect and prestige.

125. Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
126. And remember Abraham said: “My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day.” He said: “(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!”
127. And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): “Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.
Qur’an - Surah al-Baqara (The Heifer) 2:125-7
 

azizrasul

SPNer
Aug 3, 2007
105
0
The Children of Adam and Eve


Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) have nineteen multiple sets of mixed twins and in her final pregnancy she only gives birth to a son i.e. a total of thirty-nine children. The gap between each pregnancy was two years. In the first set of twins there was Qabil (Cain) and his twin sister Iqlima. In the second set there was Habil (Abel) and his twin sister Labuda.

It was normal during this time for each male twin to marry a female twin from another set. Qabil’s twin sister (Iqlima) was beautiful whilst Habil’s twin sister (Labuda) was not as beautiful. Allah commands Adam (peace be upon him) that Qabil should marry Labuda and Habil with Iqlima. However, Qabil is angry and protests. As a result of this disagreement, Adam (peace be upon him) asks both Qabil and Habil to offer a sacrifice to Allah. Whosever’s sacrifice was accepted would marry Iqlima.

Habil’s sacrifice was that of a prized sheep as he was a shepherd and given with a sincere heart. Qabil’s sacrifice was some wheat of the poorest quality as he tilled the land but given with an insincere heart. Habil’s sacrifice was accepted and Qabil’s sacrifice was rejected. As a result of this, Qabil becomes jealous and angry towards his brother Habil and kills him by striking him on the head with a rock whilst he was asleep.

Allah sends two ravens. One of the ravens digs the ground and buries the other raven, which it had killed. Qabil sees this and buries his young brother after many days of carrying his dead brother not knowing what to do.

27. Recite to them the truth of the story of the two sons of Adam. Behold! They each presented a sacrifice (to Allah): It was accepted from one, but not from the other. Said the latter: “Be sure I will slay thee.” “Surely,” said the former, “Allah only accepts the sacrifice of those who are righteous.
28. Even if thou stretch out thy hand against me to kill me, I shall not stretch out my hand against thee to kill thee, lo! I fear Allah, the Lord of all Creation.
29. “For me, I intend to let thee draw on thyself my sin as well as thine, for thou wilt be among the companions of the fire, and that is the reward of those who do wrong.”
30. The (selfish) soul of the other led him to the murder of his brother: he murdered him, and became (himself) one of the lost ones.
31. Then Allah sent a raven scratching up the ground, to show him how to hide his brother's naked corpse. He said: Woe unto me! Am I not able to be as this raven and so hide my brother's naked corpse? And he became repentant.
32. On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
Qur’an - Surah al-Ma’aida (The Table Spread) 5:27-32

Marriages between the children of Adam (peace be upon him) occurred during the early days of Islam in order to advance the human race. Up and until the time of Noah (peace be upon him) these marriages were valid. Thereafter they were strictly forbidden in Islam. Marriage between cousins was allowed at the time, which is still accepted practice among Muslims today.
 

ProjectNaad

SPNer
Sep 4, 2007
30
1
A. Hollow ritual are those which bears no fruit. Can you kindly tell me how fasting is a blessing to a man. So that if not religiously, logically I start fasting. In similar way I would like to know how Hajj and 4 marriages are blessing or helpful for the mankind to raise himself to spirituality.
I’m sure there are many hollow rituals and blind rituals that bear no fruit. However fasting gives us benefit in this life and in the hereafter. Fasting as I have already explained in this thread allows Muslims to control their desires so that after the month is over they can continue to control their desires in things which are unlawful in Islam i.e. remain close to our Creator by obtaining taqwa. In the hereafter the Muslims will also be rewarded. Have a look at this article. Hajj if performed correctly in action and intention results in the forgiveness of all sins made against God. Since there is on average more women to men, up to 4 marriages are allowed within strict conditions. This prevents promiscuity and illicit affairs. Islam is not just about spirituality but about practical way of life free from sin.

If Muslims really find peace in fasting then great for them. I know PLENTY of Muslims who get nothing from this ritual.

If you want discipline then learn a martial art, if you want to learn to love the creator do seva, if you want to develop a relationship with God, then do simran in your heart.

Sikhism is about living in moderation and so eating little and often and always thanking God is a much better approach than not eating anything the whole day and then stuffing your face like a madman at night which is what most Muslims do!

So fasting is hardly fasting it’s just an insane eating pattern during which time most Muslims actually eat more than normal. Also this form of feast and famine is not great for your metabolism and puts unnecessary strain on your heart.

“Fasting, daily rituals, and austere self-discipline - those who keep the practice of these, are rewarded with less than a shell.” SGGSJ p.216

“I have tried visiting all the sacred shrines of pilgrimage, fasting, ceremonial feasts and giving to charities. They do not measure up to the Name of the Lord, Har, Har.” SGGSJ p.699

Quote:
1)Earning interest on money is Haram and was started by English and speard around the world by westerers. (Even though Quaran was written long before the British empire or before traditional westernism)
Which YouTube video did u get this from?

Your link on item 2 does not work. Men don’t marry more than once just because there is a surplus of women. U got the wrong end of the stick here. Islam allowed Muslim men to marry up to 4 women as a result of female orphan women who had little or attraction for men to marry. Also there are strict conditions before a man can marry more than 1 woman.

èAziz bro…I’m not here to play games, I’m just telling you what your demi God Dr Zakir Naik was saying. Dr Naik was arguing that ONE of the reasons why Islam is growing in the west is because Islam allows marriage of one man to more than one woman and that this solves the “problem” of the surplus of women in the world and he even went to the extreme of saying that surplus women become public property if they dont marry! And all the brainwashed Muslims just nod their heads…its quite funny and sad at the same time. You posted the links dude did you not even watch them?

Quote:
3)Theft is forbidden. And the punishment for a thief is to cut of his or her hands. This was backed up by the fact that theft is very low in e.g. Saudi Arabia and so you create a situation where no one dares to commit theft due to the penalty.
There is punishment for stealing in every country. The cutting of the hand is for extreme cases. Glad u appreciate the low rate of theft in KSA.

Aziz bro lets just be very clear here. Islam does not differentiate between degrees of theft. Theft in Islam is theft and the punishment is clear…its hands to be cut off.


ProjectNaad: Interesting but a bit freakin harsh! Imagne the child who has nothing to eat and steals food to eat...
People below the age of puberty are not punished for stealing. As I said the cutting of hands is for extreme cases. There are 25 examples of theft in which no punishment is given, u’ve given 1 of those examples.

How do we define extreme Aziz? According to one website if you steal more than more than one Nisab and as you said you are at puberty or above (> 10 years)…its hands off and its barbaric plane and simple.

I saw a video of this and it was physically upsetting. I will not post it here.

Yes maybe!
Why just maybe. Also Zakat is just form of charity. There is another unlimited charity called sadaqa. The 2.5% is for those Muslims who do not share their wealth with the needy. If Muslims shared their wealth with poor Muslims then there would be no need to give 2.5%. Hence a Muslim who gives money as a loan without interest to help a poor person, is exempt from the Zakat. Sadaqa can be any amount and can be given to Muslims and non Muslims. Charity in Islam is not just about money. Treating people kindly is also a form of charity.

Or Maybe Not!...If Islam could solve world poverty as you suggest then why do these countries still live in poverty? Are all these contires also ones where the West has unleashed its evil design?

Egypt
Bangladesh
Libya
Morocco
Somalia
Indonesia


At least Sikhs can say that in the parts of India in which they live there is little to no hungry people
Not what I saw when I was in Amritsar in 1998!!!!!!!! Maybe things have changed now but I somehow doubt it. In fact look how the dalgits are treated in certain parts of India by the Hindus. Disgraceful.

Dude, The Golden Temple alone feeds from 70,000 to 150,000 people per day and that is all people regardless of religion, race, culture, sexual orientation, wealth etc. That equates to 4,000,000 per annum and that is just one temple albeit a rather large one. Some of the larger Gurdwaras in Delhi such as Sis Gang Gurdwara also feed a similar quantity of people per annum.

We should definitely not brag about who has done more seva (selfless service) because it is not done for braging as that would defeat the point of doing seva! But the point needs to be made that Sikhism is geared up to serve humanity in way that Islam simply can not match.

By the way it is DALITS not Dalgits that are treated badly and yes Hinduism does have a lot to answer for that. But what does that have to do with Sikhism? Sikhism teaches love and tolerance for one and all regardless of gender, caste, class, creed, sexual orientation, nationality, race etc. The Golden Temple has four doors showing that people for all four corners of the world are welcome which is in contrast to the Y road in Mecca and Medina.

Also with 1 billion Muslims in the world. They can't even look after their own lot i.e. all the Muslims dieing in Africa.
There are more than 1 billion Muslims and increasing daily. Praise be to Allah. Muslims are dying in Africa for many reasons that has nothing to do with other Muslims. For example, some African countries are not run by Muslims and the west will not open trade links with them as Bono and Bob Geldof wanted some years ago. There are many Muslim charities that are obtaining money from Muslims around the world and are helping as much as they can. If u have a situation in Iraq for example, the west has illegally invaded and occupied the country and is trying to split it up and killed over 650,000 Muslims and left broken families. Also the sanctions against Iraq which killed 1,000,000 people of which 500,000 were children. Charity can only do so much. If Muslims were left alone by the West and Hindus, then the Muslims would be able to look after themselves thank u very much. We are not asking u to help.

The major reason Muslims are increasing is because they breed like rabbits i.e. have lots of children. It is NOT due to conversion and I truly thank Allah for this!

Muslims look after themselves really? Like when Iraq invaded Iran maybe? Or when Saddam gassed his fellow Kurdish brothers and sisters? Or when saddam invaded Kuwait?

Keep living in your day dream young man.


Thanks for the other pieces of Info. Very Nice.

Blessings and Satnam

www.ProjectNaad.com
 

BaljeetSingh

SPNer
Jun 24, 2005
84
27
USA
I apologize before hand for not reading all the replies, but here is my two cents on the original post and the story of Adam and Eve by Aziz...

1. In Sikhism, we do not believe any human can comprehend God's acts (Hukum na kahiya jaye....His acts can be comprehended). This is very simple logic.....If a human can comprehend God's acts, then we are saying that humans have elevated to a level when we are trying to comprehend God's acts. God, by definition (per Sikh beliefs), is incomprehensible. Hence, the story of Universe creation (and Big Bang theory) can be categorized as "best educated guess" at the best (at least at this point of time....I am not sure about future).

2. The story of Adam and Eve (...and all other similar stories) have no scientific basis. These are stories and I emphasize on the word "stories". There is no shortage of such stories in Christianity and Hinduism either. These stories were created in order to send a hidden message to ordinary people who lacked enough IQ to understand the bigger concept. These stories can be categorized as "metaphors" at best. Since then, people started following these stories literally (ironically showing the lack of the IQ level). This problem was further exaggerated by their religious leaders (read pundits, padres and mullas) and exploited the simple people.

Regards
 

japjisahib04

Mentor
SPNer
Jan 22, 2005
822
1,294
kuwait
EID MUBARAK to everyone.


Gabriel (peace be upon him) came to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in the shape of a man (although he was seen by the Prophet (peace be upon him) on Earth in his true form on two occasions). What’s wrong about have an intermediary? The message was revealed in stages orally wherever the Prophet (peace be upon him) was. The verses were memorized by the Prophet (peace be upon him) who then gave it one of many scribes. Zahid bin Thabit was the well known scribe. Whether there were any witnesses, I don’t know.

No he is not a myth. Angels like men and Jinn do Allah’s work. So what?


Mr.Aziz. Glad to hear your answer after almost two weeks. Now can you also tell me whether Gabriel (peace be upon him) also share the revelations with todays scienstist. And whether all the major break through in today medical science, civil and mechanical engineering, computer, plane,cars and people sitting at nasa running rockets to moon is result of formula revealed to them by Gabriel or whether it is the hard work of these people. If really Gabriel has revealed the formula to them then how could theycharge franchise and other charges from third world countries.

And how could our gurus, bhaghats sitting in SGGS whose exerpeinces teaches love and sarbhat da bhala and this experiences matches with logic and today's science, experience without the help of Gabriel (peace be upon him). Were they better equipped?
Regards sahni mohinder
 

japjisahib04

Mentor
SPNer
Jan 22, 2005
822
1,294
kuwait
Dr Naik was arguing that ONE of the reasons why Islam is growing in the west is because Islam allows marriage of one man to more than one woman and that this solves the “problem” of the surplus of women in the world and he even went to the extreme of saying that surplus women become public property if they dont marry! And all the brainwashed Muslims just nod their heads…its quite funny and sad at the same time.

I watched this u-tube by Dr.Naik. It was really disgusting. Will Dr.Naik permit his own daughter to be married to those who already has three wives and she is waiting in the drawing room while one of the other four is busy in bedroom. I would love to hear his answer. Can this be called a spiritual union between two bodies or just lust?
Regards sahni Mohinder
 

kay

SPNer
Nov 8, 2007
77
0
A general rebuttal of this Muslim polemic by Andy Bannister

Every so often on newsgroups like soc.religion.islam and in other circles a particular argument surfaces. This is the claim that within the pages of the Qur'an, modern science can be found. Everything from comets to astronomy, embryology to geology, all this and more are claimed to be found in various Suras. And then it is argued that because Muhammad could not have known this science, the Qur'an must be divine.
Rebuttals to this argument usually consist of debating the particular point of science being advanced (see for example some of the excellent work by Andrew Vargo which can be seen elsewhere on the Answering Islam site). Whilst this is easy enough to do, it becomes somewhat irksome having to do it again and again. Therefore in this short paper, I have tried to produce a rebuttal of the very concept of modern science in the Qur'an. I believe that the polemic itself contains inherent logical flaws, and I hope that the points in this paper can be used whether embryology, geology, or any other point of science is being claimed as proving the Qur'an.
The paper arose out of a debate on the soc.religion.islam newsgroup about rivers and oceans, hence some references to that subject. Here are six inherent flaws in the "modern science proves the Qur'an" argument:
  • Those who pursue the argument leave no room for alternative interpretations
  • The argument as it stands makes Allah out to be weak
  • The argument is a modern polemic
  • At the end of the day, the "modern science proves the Qur'an" argument does not find science in the Qur'an, rather it uses science to judge the Qur'an
  • Selective interpretation can be used to prove anything
  • Applying the argument means that the Qur'an is no longer authoritative
I hope that people find this paper of use. What I found both fascinating and encouraging was some of the responses that Muslims made to it. I had several who actually agreed with what I had said, and disagreed with their fellows who had been trying to use this polemic to promote the Qur'an. For example, a Muslim called AbdulraHman Lomax wrote of point 4 above "this is, in fact, the reason why our scholars generally reject the efforts to proclaim ‘science in the Qur'an'" and concluded his reply to my post with the words "Basically, *Andy is right.*".
Finally, for those who are interested, here are the links to the original debate in the archives of the soc.religion.islam newsgroup:
  • The posting from Suleiman that started it all.1
  • My reply to Suleiman and his friend Abujamal (basically the text of this paper).2
  • Abdulrahman Lomax's reply to me.3
Please feel free to use and/or distribute any part of this paper. If you have any comments or suggestions, then do please email the author at andybannisterATmac.com.

"Those who pursue the argument leave no room for alternative interpretations" correct intrepretation comes from observation, if a verse is ambigious how do you know that all off its intrepretations is not correct?

"The argument as it stands makes Allah out to be weak" How, proove it?

"At the end of the day, the "modern science proves the Qur'an" argument does not find science in the Qur'an, rather it uses science to judge the Qur'an" & "Applying the argument means that the Qur'an is no longer authoritative"
If science is in the quran 1400 years ago, and this science they have only come to know recently, this makes science late, meaning that the quran is a far superior criteria than that of science! Todays standard to majority of people is science, therefore the quran stands the test of time! previous it was an age of literature and poetry, quran exceeded poetry, meaning that the poetry of the quran was the best in the world, this have been witnessed by muslims as well as non muslims!
 

kay

SPNer
Nov 8, 2007
77
0
Just curious, we both know that Guru nanak had contact with muslims and hindus, so sikhs believe in reincarnation and Allah, doesn't both those ideas come from both those religions? This seems to make sense, me trying to learn about sikisim.
 

ProjectNaad

SPNer
Sep 4, 2007
30
1
Kay,

if you look back at all the posts you will find that there is NO science in the quaran. Note 3 long posts made by myself. Also some of the teachings in the quaran are SICK....e.g. cutting the hands of a thief, killing unbelievers etc.

This is one of the big differences between Sikhism and Islam. Sikhism doesn't have some of the outdated and intolerant teachings of islam.

As far as reincarnation is concerned, this is a truth that exsists at the heart of all world religion including islam, christianity and judism. Please see the article:

http://www.projectnaad.com/wp-content/uploads/leaflets/the_mechanics_of_karma_and_transmigration.pdf

As for "Allah"...this word predates Islam and goes back to the times of Pagan Arabia. So it's nothing to do with Islam. Sikhism uses many different words for God to highlight the idea of Unity of God...i.e that God is known by many names
 
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