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Consumption Of Alcohol Amongst Sikhs

kds1980

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Apr 3, 2005
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I believe any one who believes in Sikhism and believes in all Gurus should have the freedom to follow Sikhism i will tell you a shameful incident happend with one of my friend living in Australia originally from chandigarh and believer of Sikhism however belongs to sharma family and doesnt have beard and doesnt wear a turban and his room mate from some deep village in Punjab asked him that anyone or everyone who doesnt have singh in his name shouldnt be residing in Punjab....What kind of thinking is that and i dont understand what is developing this kind of shameful thinking.

These type of people are found in all religions.Just go to rediff and you can read truck load of abusive comments against all religions.Once one of hindu friend of my brother asked him about hindu sikh relations and my brother replied that they are O.K with each other.then he said They have to be O/W there will be another 84 ,though later on he apologised for this comment but is this what he has deep in his heart?
 

Tejwant Singh

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Jun 30, 2004
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Tejwent Singh ji,
I am shocked by your statement that even women drink now days. Why is the shock? Are women diffrant then men? IF that is what you think then is it not discremination? What I can understand that it is ok for men to drink but not for women.
If we try to choose sikhs who drink or eat meat, then what else we shold look for? What about lie cheeting stealing even just little. What if a person pick up one grape at shop to taste, is it wrong too?
If we do that then there be no sikhs left in Sikhsim.
I think it is time we move forward to bring people from other faiths into Sikhism. Or Sikhism be gone sooner then later.
It is not what man eat drink or wear. It is how they live their life. This is 21<sup>st</sup> century not the 15<sup>th</sup>.

Seeker3K ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am afraid you have totally misunderstood what I wrote. Please read it again and let me know your objections.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 

gscheema

SPNer
Feb 10, 2010
4
8
Recently I was sent a form from DSGMC (Delhi Sikh Gurudwara Management Committee) for inclusion of my name in the voters list for election of DSGMC. Among other things that I was asked to fill, was a declaration that I am a Sikh who:
  1. Maintains untrimmed kesh
  2. Does not smoke or consume tobbacco
  3. Does not consume alcohol.
While the first two may be generally true for the Sikhs of Delhi, the third point is false for a very large majority of Sikhs.

I had no problem with the last point so I signed the declaration without hesitation. But lakhs of Delhi Sikhs will be signing a false declaration!

waheguru ji da khalsa,waheguru ji di fateh, in my views alcohol is not needed for a true sikh guru nanak dev ji has given us naam(waheguru),naam khumari nanaka chari rahe din raat. its my personal experience that people tends towards alcohol and other sorts of intoxicants because our mind(mann) is like water it flows towards niwaan(downward) bad things attracts us more than the good ones.so a true sikh should follow the teachings of gurus and should start simran of waheguru and there will be no need of alcohol or any other type of intoxicant.And we dont have to tell lie to any authority or any person..i wont tell u lie i also drink occasionaly but i am trying hard to quit and i pray to god that bless me with his naam so that i can become strong from inside that i dont have to rely upon alcohol for dutch comfort....
 
Aug 28, 2010
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Let us all first become GOOD GURSIKH and comprehend the messages of Gurbaani.
Then we can realise the significance of the concept of being A KHALSA as envisaged by GURU GOBIND SINGH Ji.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 
Aug 28, 2010
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SEEKER3K Ji,

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT CENTURY WE LIVE IN>THE DIVINE MESSAGES OF DIVINE GURU FOR EVER>WE CAN NOT TAKE THE EXCUSE OF ANYTHING BEING TIMEBAR>WE SHOULD ONLY THINK OF HOW THE TEACHINGS OF DIVINE GURU CAN BE IMPLEMENTED AS PER REQUIREMENT OF TIME>THIS IS IMPORTANT.

Prakash.S.Bagga

Admin Request: Please avoid commenting all-capital words like above. They are synonymous with internet shouting behavior. Leaves a bad impression and a bad taste to a reader. Future instances of such occurrences will be deleted without notice. Thank you for your understanding.
 

Ambarsaria

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Dec 21, 2010
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Ummm...no, I think the idea is much more along the lines of a practical Dr. Phil "how's that workin' for ya?" type of approach.

......
And variations of that story happened over and over again... so much so that these complaints finally reached the CEO of the corporation that owns the resort. And he did some research. And he calculated that, by pulling people out of the lift line or otherwise detaining people who did not have a pass or who did not have the right kind of pass, we ~maybe~ saved ourselves $30,000 a year.
.....

See... there is a HUGE difference between knowing what you have a "right" to do and knowing in your heart the "right thing" to do.

....

And he is insisting that I deduct 15 minutes of vacation time from my timesheet due to the fact that I did not CALL him to NOTIFY him that I would be late.

On a day when common sense combined with this admittedly rare and high-level managerial skill known as "looking out the window to check the weather" would have TOLD him I was going to be late.

And I have tried, desperately almost, to explain to him that when he micromanages me in this way -- seeking out faults and shortcomings without ever praising me or offering any balance to counteract his perpetual focus on negativity. ... ego-based focus on having us kow-tow to his authority.

What is the saying -- there are none so blind as those who *will not see*? I think that applies here.

The important thing about rules and laws is not the fact that the rule or the law exists because clearly there was a time when that rule or law did not exist...and that changed...and that means that it can change again. The important thing it is to focus on what that law is intended to accomplish -- what interest that law is designed to address.

Lose sight of that and the law simply becomes meaningless dogma -- something that, based on my understanding of gurbani, we are urged to avoid doing.
....

To have an inquiring and discerning heart and mind is a gift. God must want us to use those gifts or God would have created robots instead of humans.
Siri Kamala ji wonderful post and I have similar work experiences too.

Now in terms of the this thread I bring the following to the attention of SPNers,


  • The question is one first and foremost one of Sikh Rehat Maryad (SRM) which itself was dervied consistent with Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji by learned men each one of those perhaps was equivalent to the total brain power in terms of Sikhism on this board
    • At least that is how humbled I personally feel knowing names of some of the people involved
  • It is very disingenous to take one part of SRM and conveniently take other parts to prove a point (nothing personal as this is a philosophical discussion for helping each other) and I mark with R for indiscretion that are not Kurehat while Kurehats are marked with K
    • Comments like
      • Teetoal (R + K)
      • Government of India lumps in (Maintains untrimmed kesh K, Does not smoke or consume tobbacco K, Does not consume alcohol R.)
      • There are other posts where anti-drink (nothing wrong with the view as it follows SRM) posters do the same by Gurbani quotes by mixing R and K
  • The above actions are not correct in providing Guidance
  • Rehat statement in terms of Alcohol is the followng from SGPC,<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->

  • 5. koeI nSw(BMg,APIm,Srwb,posq,kukIn Awid) vrqx vwlw[

  • -User of any intoxicants (Marijuana, Opium, Liquor, Poppy Husks, Cocaine, etc.). R
    • This clause is a violation of a rehat and SRM deals with it as follows,
-------------------------------------------------
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3. qnKwh lwaux dI ivDI
Method of Imposing Penalty
a) ijs iksy is`K pwsoN rihq dI koeI Bu`l ho jwvy qW auh nyVy dI gur-sMgq pws hwzr hovy Aqy sMgq dy snmu`K KVHo ky AwpxI Bu`l mMny[
- The Sikh who has erred in a rehat indiscretion, should attend the nearest sikh congregation and while standing admit to the indiscretion.

A) gur-sMgq 'coN sRI gurU gRMQ swihb jI dI hzUrI ivc pMj ipAwry cuxy jwx, jo pyS hoey s`jx dI Bu`l nUM ivcwr ky gur-sMgq pws qnKwh (dMf) qjvIz krn[
- The sikh congregation, in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, selects five Panjh Piyare (Five Beloved) who having reviewed the indiscretion propose a penalty to the Sikh Congregation.
e) sMgq nUM bKSx vyly hT nhIN krnw cwhIdw[ nw hI qnKwh luAwaux vwly nUM dMf Brn ivc AVI krnI cwhIdI hY[ qnKwh iksy iksm dI syvw, Kws krky jo h`QW nwl kIqI jw sky, lwauxI cwhIey[
- In giving forgiveness the Sikh congregation should not be stubborn. The person seeking penalty should not resist the penalty. The penalty should be service oriented with focus on the abilty to do so as labour of hands.

s) AMq soD dI Ardws hovy[
- A prayer of having been reformed shall be carried out at the end.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Globally key points,

  • For Rehat (R) Violations like the following,
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->
T) qnKwhIey ieh hn:-
Subjects of Penalty


1. mIxy, msMd, DIrm`lIey, rwmrweIey, Awidk pMQ ivroDIAW nwl jW nVI mwr, kuVI mwr, isrguMm nwl vrqx vwlw qnKwhIAw ho jWdw hY[
- Meenay, Masand (non-believers in Rehat Maryada); Dhirmaliye; Ram Rayiaye (non-believers in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as last and final Guru), Touts of anti-Panth or of the non-believers in succession of Gurus, female infanticide, the person dealing with such is subject to penalty.


2. by-AMimRqIey jW piqq dw jUTw Kwx vwlw[
- Eater of food eaten by non-Amritdhari or Kurehatiah.

3. dwhVw rMgx vwlw[
-Beard colourer.
4. pu`qr jW DI dw swk mu`l lY ky jW dy ky krn vwlw[
-Doing marriage matches of sons or daughters through by taking or giving a set price.
5. koeI nSw(BMg,APIm,Srwb,posq,kukIn Awid) vrqx vwlw[
-User of any intoxicants (Marijuana, Opium, Liquor, Poppy Husks, Cocaine, etc.).

6. gurmiq qoN ivru`D koeI sMskwr krn krwaux vwlw[
- Conductor of non-Rehat based religious functions.

7. rihq ivc koeI Bu`l krn vwlw[
-Other mistakes in following Rehat.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So best for all of us is to keep clarity and convey clarity. Nothing comes out of mush.

Bottomline:

  • The person in-charge of indiscretion is solely responsible to bring it to Sikh congregations attention as needed


  • Do not mix the following:

  • Tobacco use and Drinking are totally different matters in terms of recognition and severity and actions to reform from in SRM
  • Sikh Rehat Maryada was derived based on Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and rules of wisdom for Personal and Panthic living

  • Re-quoting of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in justifying harsher or softer views for others is against Sikh Rehat Maryada
  • Don't let Government of India or any other Government define who is Sikh! It is well and completely defined in Sikh Rehat Maryada

  • If you want to suggest improvements or changes submit to the process defined in Sikh Rehat Maryada
I am not condoning drinking or stopping people from drinking just stating what I can read in reference publications of SGPC and other posts with Gurbani quotes and translations.

Hoping above is of help in the dialog.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: Any errors in English translations of sections of the Punjabi SRM are mine and I stand corrected. The original Punjabi SRM text is taken from,

http://sgpc.net/sikhism/punjabi/sikh-dharma-manual.asp



 
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isrIrwgu mhlw 1 ] (16-12)<?"urn::eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />
sireeraag mehlaa 1.
Siree Raag, First Mehl:
siB rs imTy mMinAY suixAY swloxy ] (16-12, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
sabh ras mithay mani-ai suni-ai saalonay.
Believing, all tastes are sweet. Hearing, the salty flavors are tasted;
Kt qursI muiK bolxw mwrx nwd kIey ] (16-12, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
khat tursee mukh bolnaa maaran naad kee-ay.
chanting with one's mouth, the spicy flavors are savored. All these spices have been made from the Sound-current of the Naad.
CqIh AMimRq Bwau eyku jw kau ndir kryie ]1] (16-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
chhateeh amrit bhaa-o ayk jaa ka-o nadar karay-i. ||1||
The thirty-six flavors of ambrosial nectar are in the Love of the One Lord; they are tasted only by one who is blessed by His Glance of Grace. ||1||
bwbw horu Kwxw KusI KuAwru ] (16-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
baabaa hor khaanaa khusee khu-aar.
O Baba, the pleasures of other foods are false.
ijqu KwDY qnu pIVIAY mn mih clih ivkwr ]1] rhwau ] (16-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
jit khaaDhai tan peerhee-ai man meh chaleh vikaar. ||1|| rahaa-o.
Eating them, the body is ruined, and wickedness and corruption enter into the mind. ||1||Pause||
rqw pYnxu mnu rqw supydI squ dwnu ] (16-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
rataa painan man rataa supaydee sat daan.
My mind is imbued with the Lord's Love; it is
Un fortunately consumption of alcohal specially hard liqour in punjab per capita is highest in the word. Many times alcohal is the cause of many problems. But today there are all products of deodERRANTS And colognes we used have alcohal content. Even we use some kind of deoderant around our Guru Granth Sahib has alcohal content.. I daily use alcohal for prepping my suregeries. I use when i start for ultrasound. I'm 100% sure that I'm getting some obsorption of alcohal in my body. But this is all 2ndary obsorption but still it goes in my body i can not deny it. I use daily deoderant and cologne. You name any product women use for make up starting from nail polish etc have alcohal content. so probably 99% of our Sikhs use alcohal irrespective of their route. Even most of the syrups form of medicines has alcohal contents. So I believe knowingly or unknowingly every body has used alcohal in their life time. Only thing is abuse of alcohal is strongly contra indicated.
We can not change 5 KAKAS. That is given by our Guru. We cannot change our Gurbani. These are two pilllers of Sikh Religion.. Every other thing is changable. But still there are very good Sikhs by heart who have cut their body hair even for sanitery or other reasons. They have adopted more compelling charachterstics of life mentioned in our Gurbani. In real life they are better than Bhekhi Sikhs { Giani jarnail singh has described above.}
BHUll Chook Muaf. I'm late inthis thread because I'm very bussy in life.
Brar
 
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Feb 14, 2007
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dear veerji guru fateh, while there is no denying that a vast majorty of the sikhs and it is no secret that a good number of members of gurdwara committes consume alcohol,when it comes to vote my opinion is that the vast number of sehajdari sikhs should be included in the electoral process, the conditions may be imposed only on those who stand for elections.
 

findingmyway

Writer
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Aug 17, 2010
1,665
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World citizen!
A number of issues have been raised in this thread and the numerous other threads on alcohol and I would like to make a few points concerning them.

1) For those who support the use of alcohol (for drinking) tooth and nail, why? What does it achieve? The only reason I can see for alcohol are social reasons and to relax (whereby the alcohol is affecting your mind and body). There is not another reasonable reason for it. Most of my friends drink yet I have never had any problems with socialising. Alcohol is not necessary as long as you have the willpower.
Here is a video about intoxicants in Sikhism;
YouTube - Sikhism On Alcohol

2. For those that say alcohol is ok in moderation, I have dealt with the fallacies of this argument with the scientific point of view elsewhere. From a spiritual point of view there is nothing about the consumption of alcohol which is conducive to increasing your spirituality, quite the opposite. If you are going to drink be honest and admit why you are doing it rather than hiding being false curtains. I will respect you more for that.
Alcohol is an intoxicant, no matter how small the amount imbibed. That is a fact. The Guru Granth Sahib ji is very clear on the use of intoxicants as stated already by several people. If we have the love of Guruji and the peace/happiness that brings then we should not need such distractions.

If alcohol was ok in moderation and not a slippery slope, why would organisations like alcoholics anonymous be in existence? Why would so many governments around the world be trying to tackle the problem of alcohol (separate from addiction issues). Here is one of several adverts issued by the Australian government on TV for the last 2 years;
YouTube - Drinkwise Australia: Drink Cycle

There is a whole range of them and some are quite disturbing showing how social drinking morphs into violence and worse. There are hundreds of such campaigns. Watch this and tell me how alcohol doesn't affect your mind?
YouTube - TAC Christmas driving

3) The final issue I want to tackle is dealing with the definition of a Sikh. Not everyone follows everything in the Guru Granth Sahib ji and SRM (myself included). In my mind the difference between a Sikh who is committed to Sikhi and one who only adheres to the label is the difference between a person who recognises what they don't follow, why they don't follow it and work on remedying the situation compared to someone who doesn't care and does as they please. Sikhism is a pathway. We are all at different points and it is upto us to make the changes within ourself rather than looking for curtains behind so we can continue to follow our minds and feel good rather than follow the Guru. This takes a lifetime so the important thing is the recognition and willingness to become the Guru's Sikhs.
 
Aug 28, 2010
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FINDINGMYWAYS JI,
Divine GREETINGS

Your collection of Gurbaani Quotes is excellent and the depiction of the whole messageis wonderful.
If you can make use of the concludingg lineas'That our GURU is a perfect GURU and Who is all knowing" may be more befitting rather than the use of past tense.This is only a suggestion ,not criticism.

With best Wishes

Prakash.S.Bagga
 
Aug 28, 2010
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JASVINDERSINGH LOTA Ji,
Your feelings are very much appreciated.You will consider a fact since there is no concept of Sahejdhari Sikh as on todays definition of a Sikh then how the inclusion for election is feasible.?

With best wishes

Prakash.s.Bagga
 

barusaby

SPNer
Mar 12, 2009
6
15
trimming is the first step towards all evils for a sikh. when kesh is most important for them and an identity all over the globe, then just starting trimming breaks all the rehat maryadas. if one can restrain trimming, then he can also restrain all other evils.

it is practical and no theory.

my nephew started trimming his beard, when the beginning hair appeared on his face. his parents waited and admonished him lightly. he got 'encouraged',

and started shaving his beard like the most punjabi singers like sukhjinder shinda and one other from kenya (famous song 'chandigarh kare ashki, munda jalandhro aa ke).

then next step was eating non-veg outside in the market, because his family is vegetarian.

while going into bad society, he started drinking occassionaly.

then he started abusing his parents and sister.

then he started breaking the utensils and other household things to get money for his pocket money.

now he is like a boss of his house. no one dares to defy him.

and god knows what is in future for the family.

it just started with trimming.

chori ik paise di vi, chori ik lakh di vi.

it was 'just trimming' and now the result is disastrous.
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
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May 25, 2005
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United Kingdom
i am sikh jatt girl , ge tmany marraige proposal.my few question i ever ask the boy is1) are u edicted to some things like gutka alcohol ,and i am pure veg..
most of the boy replies...je daru n hi to sikh nahi...!!!!! jatt ho ke daru na piye to apni kaum badnaam ho jani....!!!!***!!!!! and koi kudi kisi bevde sarabhi nal vyah kyu karagi...if this wont stop then i think Sikh will be known form drinking more alcohol than water...i have seen 19-20 years kids they dance with hand glass of bear and alcohol even their parents dont say any things to them..shame on such parents,themselves they donno what is sikhi and expect others to follow it...animatedkhanda1

Ok, what would you do if the boy didn't smoke or drink and ate meat? As you know as per Rehat Maryada Sikhs can eat meat. Amritdhari's are permitted to eat non-Kuttha meat.

?

The reason why I say this is I don't drink or smoke, yet I know many Vegetarians who drink and smoke.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
brusaby ji

Who exactly are you describing? Is this a real person? Or is this an image of a person on the road to degeneration. Your comments are somewhat difficult to put into context. Thanks.
 
Oct 11, 2006
234
425
Patiala,Punjab.
I found your response interesting. I feel like if I was a devout Sikh I would share your sentiment. (I also have to agree with the poster above me, chances are, if you're clean shave—you drink; but the common perception now is that chances are, if your punjabi—you drink.) Lol, in highschool, as a tongue in cheek response to students who were ignorant of punjabi culture, we use to say "Punjabi people are alot like the Irish, they love to eat potatoes, dance, fight and drink." Of course, I realize thats just a stereotype—but that goes for the post above me as well.

I found the list of requirements interesting though and a "confirmation" of sorts of what I have been saying for a long time on this site. The question of what it means to be a "Sikh" is largely a superficial one.

It is a well known fact that Nihangs openly use bhang as an intoxicant.Pls. could someone enlighten when did they start consuming bhang and how do they justify it.
I have even posted a video on the Youtube, of Nihangs selling bhang on the roadside, on Shivratri, at Patiala.:singhsippingcoffee:[coffee too contains caffeine:grinningsingh:.]
 
Oct 11, 2006
234
425
Patiala,Punjab.
trimming is the first step towards all evils for a sikh. when kesh is most important for them and an identity all over the globe, then just starting trimming breaks all the rehat maryadas. if one can restrain trimming, then he can also restrain all other evils.

it is practical and no theory.

my nephew started trimming his beard, when the beginning hair appeared on his face. his parents waited and admonished him lightly. he got 'encouraged',

and started shaving his beard like the most punjabi singers like sukhjinder shinda and one other from kenya (famous song 'chandigarh kare ashki, munda jalandhro aa ke).

then next step was eating non-veg outside in the market, because his family is vegetarian.

while going into bad society, he started drinking occassionaly.

then he started abusing his parents and sister.

then he started breaking the utensils and other household things to get money for his pocket money.

now he is like a boss of his house. no one dares to defy him.

and god knows what is in future for the family.

it just started with trimming.

chori ik paise di vi, chori ik lakh di vi.

it was 'just trimming' and now the result is disastrous.

A very good attempt at story-telling,but you need much more practice and imagination to make it seem more authentic.:grinningsingh:
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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It is a well known fact that Nihangs openly use bhang as an intoxicant.Pls. could someone enlighten when did they start consuming bhang and how do they justify it.
I have even posted a video on the Youtube, of Nihangs selling bhang on the roadside, on Shivratri, at Patiala.:singhsippingcoffee:[coffee too contains caffeine:grinningsingh:.]
Jasbir Kaleka ji good questions so some comments,

Let us look at the following,
  • when did they start consuming bhang
    • That is like asking when did people realize Bhang/Cannabis/marijuana

  • Evidence of the inhalation of cannabis smoke can be found in the 3rd millennium B.C
  • It is an indigenous plant in India
  • I used to rip it out as it will obstruct water flow to our garden at Khalsa College Amritsar
  • I know people used to play tricks by feeding others "bhang de pakoreh"
  • and how do they justify it.
    • As you know Nihangs don't report to anyone and say they are Khalsa ji ki Army, so this question is not on their mind as they are too practical in what and how they need to do things and have been so
    • Nihangs are not knwon for philosophical discussion but physically address injustice or issues
      • Like Punjab Police but without the Punjab Police requirement lol to take bribery at every possible instance
Sat Sri Akal.
 

Mai Harinder Kaur

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brusaby ji

Who exactly are you describing? Is this a real person? Or is this an image of a person on the road to degeneration. Your comments are somewhat difficult to put into context. Thanks.

I cannot know who brusabi ji is talking about, but that is exactly what has happened in a family I know in Punjabi. I don't know that it started with trimming, though.

It might have started with treating the boy like a little god in the home (as sons in Punjab often are), or perhaps it started with the company the boy chose to keep with no supervision from the parents. :angryyoungkaur: Such cases are often hard to unravel.

But trimming is definitely a big step on the road.
 

spnadmin

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jasbirkaleka ji and Ambarsaria ji

You both brought a smile to my face in an hour when I was pretty much down in the dumps.

I think everyone loves a Nihang. The mere sight of a Nihang reaches down deep into a lost part of the heart where spirit roams free. The question of bhang imho is well answered if only by hypothesis in Ambarsaria ji's reply. Consumption of narcotics has a long cultural story -- even in the West where opiates were not outlawed until the mid 20th Century.

It speaks to our Guru's formidable insight that intoxicants would be specifically forbidden in Gurbani, even when many other obvious vices were not.

Back to the Nihangs. No one really knows when the Nihangs began. The common belief is that they were formed by Guru Gobind Singh. However, there is historical evidence that they may have been a force long before that, perhaps even around during the time of Guru Hargobind ji. So it may be impossible to know when bhang became part of their life-style.

It is probably true that consumption of bhang helped them endure great physical pain. It is probably also true that consumption of bhang made it possible to experience an other-worldly reality, akin to meditation. The use of drugs to induce altered states of mind stretches back to pre-Aryan days in India, is mentioned in the tales of Shiva as "soma," and is part of spiritual practices in many shamanistic societies. It is clear that I have not cleared anything up. :grinningkudi:
 
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