Being Naamdhari Is Sikhi

[Randip Singh]

Namdharis not only give a living Satguru equality with Sri Guru Granth Sahib, they take personal mantras upon initiation from the living Satguru.[qoute

Only mantra's I have ever seen any naamdhari or any sikh for matter is vaheguru or mool mantra.

There are many elements of their very specific rehat that are not only different from Sikh Rehat Maryada, but contradict it along with contradicting the rehats of Dandami and Buddha Dal. Wearing a turban in the absence of keeping 5 K's as an initiated Sikh doesn't mean anything. In contrast Naamdharis do not carry a kirpan but a bamboo staff; they wear mala or rosaries, which is forbidden in the Sikh Rehat Maryada - though many do wear them. [quote

It's forbidden to wear maala's, carry staffs? News to me

1. Marriage involves walking around agni - Such rituals are forsaken by SRM.
2. The rehat states kechera should never leave the body -- this is not found in SRM.
3. Namdhari are strict vegetarians, excluding meat, fish and eggs from the diet. This is not required in SRM, which forbids halal meat only. And in the other Sikh rehats meat can also be taken.
4. Namdhari forbid tea and coffee in addition to intoxicants, whereas the SRM forbids tobacco and intoxicants.
5. Namdhari forbid dowries completely. The SRM forbids excessive dowry.

All I see is Namdhari's go a step extra which SRM doesn't require. But I do see your point in trying to point out all differences.


I wish however to stress that differences in rehat are more than technical disparities. Even as there are differences in the 5 K's, so there are differences as Naamdharis disregard two essential decrees of Sri Guru Gobind Singh that established the Khalsa panth.
The 5 K's are the signature of the Khalsa panth, and Guru Gobind Singh declared that panth was in his own image "guru" as a temporal and democratic institution to decide on matters affecting corporate Sikh life.

Here you are comparing sikhi with Khalsa Amritdhari Singhs. By these standards 99% of sangat in gurudwara's in sacramento wouldn't qualify as sikhs.

And he was the one who gave Sri Guru Granth Sahib the status of the everlasting Guru, Satguru. [quot

"Agya bhai Akal ki tabhi chalayo Panth Sabh Sikhan ko hukam hai Guru manyo Granth Guru Granth Ji manyo pargat Guran ki deh Jo Prabhu ko milbo chahe khoj shabad mein le Raj karega Khalsa aqi rahei na koe Khwar hoe sabh milange bache sharan jo hoe."

"Under orders of the Immortal Being, the Panth was created. All the Sikhs are enjoined to accept the Granth as their Guru. Consider the Guru Granth as embodiment of the Gurus. Those who want to meet God, can find Him in its hymns. The Khalsa shall rule, and its opponents will be no more, Those separated will unite and all the devotees shall be saved."

And this strictly forbids everyone to bow to saints or seva of saints or anyone other than Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji?

I would like to share a simple story here. Although Baba SHiri chand ji started his own gadhi/seat which still continues today, Shiri Guru Raamdas ji cleaned his feet with his dhari. Was he better/higher/more spiritual than Shiri Guru Raamdas ji? ofcourse not, no ones higher, but Shiri Guru Sahib tought us humility, seva and Nivna(to bow down).
5th Patshahi, Shiri Guru Arjun Dev ji, walked to Baba Shiri Chand ji's place to ask for his CHarnamrit himself cuz water in Harminder sahib wouldn't stay. Couldn't Guru ji do it himself, ofcourse, but they set an example for rest of us.
GuruSahib ji, asked Mian meer ji to make "NIh" of Shiri Harmandir Sahib ji, Couldn't he have done it himself or asked SIKHS like Bhai Gurdaasji, Baba Budha ji or many other able sangat? Guru ji teach us that naam/simran/seva/GurMaT transcends race/caste/religion. If Guru Ji are so respectfull of Baba shiri Chand ji and a Muslim peer Mian Meer ji, Why do we, SIKHS of the same Guru Sahib criticiz and Ninda others Tagging/labeling them as sects/non sikhs etc.

Have we this new MAT which is higher than our Guru Sahib? SInce when did we as SIKHS became so wise as to Pin -down / excumminate/outcaste others from "OUR" religion. If you are looking for it, you will find it. More in each of us than in others I am sure.

Fundamental

Hi Josh, I think you have taken on the poison chalice when taking on this.

My wifes cousin is married to a Namdhari, and he says that their living Guru's supersede the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. There are fundemental differences between Sikhs who believe in the SRM and Namdhari's.

and if as you say:

All I see is Namdhari's go a step extra which SRM doesn't require. But I do see your point in trying to point out all differences.

Is somethng I fundementally disagree with. The whole point of SRM is that it is done by consensus. You cannot have living Guru's or Baba's go a step extra or that pours water on the SRM and the fundemental principles of Gurmatta in Sikhi.

I think you should come clean and admit you are a Namdhari.

Here at SPN we respect other peoples views but they at the same time should come clean and admit differences with mainstream Sikhism.

 

[Josh martin]

Hi Josh, I think you have taken on the poison chalice when taking on this. I think you should come clean and admit you are a Namdhari.

Vista/amrit not much difference. Admitting namdhari would be needed if I was anything close to a sikh in first place

Off to work/ will reply's tommarow; Until this part of my post was walked over/avoided. Thoughts on this plz. An factual error was inserted, which no one has picked on;

And this strictly forbids everyone to bow to saints or seva of saints or anyone other than Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji?

I would like to share a simple story here. Although Baba SHiri chand ji started his own gadhi/seat which still continues today, Shiri Guru Raamdas ji cleaned his feet with his dhari. Was he better/higher/more spiritual than Shiri Guru Raamdas ji? ofcourse not, no ones higher, but Shiri Guru Sahib tought us humility, seva and Nivna(to bow down).
5th Patshahi, Shiri Guru Arjun Dev ji, walked to Baba Shiri Chand ji's place to ask for his CHarnamrit himself cuz water in Harminder sahib wouldn't stay. Couldn't Guru ji do it himself, ofcourse, but they set an example for rest of us.
GuruSahib ji, asked Mian meer ji to make "NIh" of Shiri Harmandir Sahib ji, Couldn't he have done it himself or asked Sikhs like Bhai Gurdaasji, Baba Budha ji or many other able sangat? Guru ji teach us that naam/simran/seva/GurMaT transcends race/caste/religion. If Guru Ji are so respectfull of Baba shiri Chand ji and a Muslim peer Mian Meer ji, Why do we, Sikhs of the same Guru Sahib criticiz and Ninda others Tagging/labeling them as sects/non Sikhs etc.

Have we this new MAT which is higher than our Guru Sahib? SInce when did we as Sikhs became so wise as to Pin -down / excumminate/outcaste others from "OUR" religion. If you are looking for it, you will find it. More in each of us than in others I am sure.

 

[spnadmin]

Vista/amrit not much difference. Admitting namdhari would be needed if I was anything close to a sikh in first place

Off to work/ will reply's tommarow

Josh ji


Makes sense to me. The entire point of persisting with the Namdhari Sikh discussion was to put members of the forum on the defensive regarding their knowledge of Sikhism and their adherence to Sikh values. If successful in doing that, it would then be easy to shake the confidence of various other participants and slip in beliefs from a different religious system.

That is what is happening. In a sense you have to read ALL the threads in which Josh Martin ji is responding to pick up on it. Open with a quick assault, then put the opposition on the defensive with short quick nips and jabs.

Josh ji it is obvious from your very first post earlier this week on one thread. In which you say that you have been reading discussions in the forum for some time, and you have come to the conclusion that this forum is bigoted. If you already have the answer that we are bigoted, then why continue to ask questions? By your own reasoning, we can only give you bigoted answers. Yet on the same various threads, you proceed next to question the legitimacy of believing that Sikhism is unique. No member of any religion should be required to go on the defensive and defend the fundamentals of belief in his own house, or in the forum of her professed religion.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

BTW, What does this mean? Vista/Amrit not much difference.

 

[Randip Singh]

I was on my way home from work yesterday evening and as often happens my mind got around to certian thoughts, and is also my habit I let my mind drift where it would, rather than concentrate on that which was forming in my head.

The thought was about the kirpan, and whether Guru ji if alive in person and not Guru Granth Sahib, would change his Hukum regarding teh carrying of it in these days.

Let me explain. For many Khalsa now-a-days, the kirpan is little more than a small blunt replica of a kirpan. Do you carry it out of obediance? Is it a symbol of such? What was Guru ji's intent for his Gursihks when he initiated the Khalsa? If it was in defence of the defensless, if it was all about 'when all else has failed it is right to pick up the sword' then surly the blunt instrument the Khalsa carry now is useless for such a task?

Now please my freinds do not feel anger towards me here, I am now as I ever was asking honestly and openly, to quest for understanding.

Its a valid point. I stated in a forum that wouldn't the Guru's have chosen something like a gun today.

A fellow writer pointed out guns existed in those days but Guruji did not chose that. I think each of the 5 K's also has a symbolic meaning too.

We say things like "Deg, Teg, Fateh".

To mess around with these symbols and metaphors just seems to destroy the fundementals within Sikhi.

 

[Randip Singh]

Vista/amrit not much difference. Admitting namdhari would be needed if I was anything close to a sikh in first place

Off to work/ will reply's tommarow; Until this part of my post was walked over/avoided. Thoughts on this plz. An factual error was inserted, which no one has picked on;

And this strictly forbids everyone to bow to saints or seva of saints or anyone other than Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji?

I would like to share a simple story here. Although Baba SHiri chand ji started his own gadhi/seat which still continues today, Shiri Guru Raamdas ji cleaned his feet with his dhari. Was he better/higher/more spiritual than Shiri Guru Raamdas ji? ofcourse not, no ones higher, but Shiri Guru Sahib tought us humility, seva and Nivna(to bow down).
5th Patshahi, Shiri Guru Arjun Dev ji, walked to Baba Shiri Chand ji's place to ask for his CHarnamrit himself cuz water in Harminder sahib wouldn't stay. Couldn't Guru ji do it himself, ofcourse, but they set an example for rest of us.
GuruSahib ji, asked Mian meer ji to make "NIh" of Shiri Harmandir Sahib ji, Couldn't he have done it himself or asked Sikhs like Bhai Gurdaasji, Baba Budha ji or many other able sangat? Guru ji teach us that naam/simran/seva/GurMaT transcends race/caste/religion. If Guru Ji are so respectfull of Baba shiri Chand ji and a Muslim peer Mian Meer ji, Why do we, Sikhs of the same Guru Sahib criticiz and Ninda others Tagging/labeling them as sects/non Sikhs etc.

Have we this new MAT which is higher than our Guru Sahib? SInce when did we as Sikhs became so wise as to Pin -down / excumminate/outcaste others from "OUR" religion. If you are looking for it, you will find it. More in each of us than in others I am sure.

A slave cannot have two masters.:yes: