Are We Guided Towards Monogamy In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji!

[Sherdil]

==g

Its actually well documented that homosexuality exists in other mammal species as well not just humans. Dolphins for example are known to engage in sex for pleasure reasons just like humans. So the idea of sex just for offspring doesn't entirely hold up in the animal world.

When animals decide who to mate with, they pick partners that are attractive. Attractive mates have good genes, which will be passed on to offspring. Or they have social status that will allow the offspring to be protected.

I am not saying that you should only have sex to have children. I am saying that sex is to make children. Before contraception, people had a lot of kids. A sign that they loved each other a lot :winkingmunda:

 

[spnadmin]

SaintSolider ji

One little point to add to your remarks. The Lavaan were actually composed by Guru Ram Das ji to celebrate his own marriage to Bibi Bhani. They are intended to remind us all that man and woman are united when both become brides of Waheguru.

We are reminded we did not find a 'soulmate' in another human being, a mere mortal. We are reminded that we have an opportunity to find our true identities in meeting with the Husband Lord.

Many times members ask what do the Lavaan say. This link will take you there.

http://sikhism.about.com/od/sikhweddinghymns/a/Lavan.htm

 

[SaintSoldier1699]

Thanks for clarifying spnadmin Ji! I stand corrected :noticemunda:

 

[Harry Haller]

We are meant to live the householder's life. SRM also prohibits extra-marital relations.

so what about people that cohabit?

 

[Sherdil]

so what about people that cohabit?

Well, if you are living together and having sex, then why don't you get married?

Forgive me if it is personal, but can you elaborate?

Cohabitation has gained popularity with the availability of contraception. No such thing as cohabitation back in the day.

 

[Harry Haller]

Well, if you are living together and having sex, then why don't you get married?

Forgive me if it is personal, but can you elaborate?

Cohabitation has gained popularity with the availability of contraception. No such thing as cohabitation back in the day.

how many people get married for themselves? My partner is on orphan with just the only son, I only have parents and a brother, we have no friends or associates, so other than waiting until we can be ready for Anand Karaj, and without the social need, why make a mockery of the whole ceremony until it can be understood, fulfilled and adhered to, and that is not the physical adherence, it is the penetration of the truth to the heart, and thus the start of another journey.

 

[Ishna]

These days people get married for lots of different reasons.

Firstly it's to publicly affirm their relationship as a show of love for each other, and announcement of their committment to each other.

Secondary effects are to discourage extra-marital relations, and fortify the committment between the two in raising children.

Underpinning all of this is the bond between the two people to grow together as people.

Living in the world, yet separate from it, is what Sikhi teaches us. Like the lotus with roots in the mud of the householder's life, but the petal-mind unblemished towards the sky of Truth.

I don't believe Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says anything about how we should structure our physical marital relations, but it does however say that we should be monogamous in our relationship with Creator.

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

Quote:
Sikhi says that we cannot have intimate relations outside of marriage.

where does it say that?

Right here

Sikh Reht Maryada
Section Six
Article XXIV
The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided
1. Dishonouring the hair;
2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way;
3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse;
4. Using tobacco.

But it pertains only to the Khalsa.l

 

[Harry Haller]

Right here




But it pertains only to the Khalsa.l

sisji,

apologies for the confusion, I was more interested in sex outside of marriage if both parties were single, rather than adultery

 

[Ambarsaria]

Thank you all for providing contributions in this thread and sharing your thoughts. I feel like revisiting for myself and providing some comments.

There are three possible approaches to seeing or seeking wisdom through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

1. We learn from those who may have understood and do little study ourselves. This perhaps is the dominant style in Sikhism out of sheer convenience and the easiest to passively participate in. We love to have things provided to us on a platter. Is it all wrong? Of course not but we need to be careful and watchful as to understand the difference as to person we believe understands versus those who pretend they understand and they want you to close your eyes and follow them.

2. We seek answers out of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji versus trying to understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This is again a fast and convenient approach where we may believe that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a book of answers versus a teacher. A book of answers is limited to the number of questions answered and is rarely a good teacher. For me Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is way beyond a book of answers but a supreme teacher. Some subjects if so thought by Guru ji's and others may have been addressed head on but not all is possibly addresses in questions and answers format. I believe the subject of this thread falls into that category as I did search a bit to find specific questions and answers dialog but was not successful though I stand corrected.

3. The essence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is as a teacher for me. What a great teacher allows a student (Sikh) to do is determine answers through understanding. This is the most difficult of approaches but one that liberates us through understanding where we do not follow shortcuts and have lesser chance to fall prey to misguidance.

So from the perspective of this thread I believe we may say that the following fall into Category 1 where we believe in wisdom of those who brought us the Sikh Reht Maryada or those of our family and others that we chose to follow,

I am guided by Sikh Reht Maryada in these matters and marriage to be as monogamy, heterosexual and to be between Sikhs only.

I am socially or parentally following clues or direction.

Some have tried to quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but I believe it has not been convincing.

The question of free will is a paramount principle in Sikhism. However free will is not unencumbered. It is associated with knowledge, understanding, truths, and so on with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a marvelous teacher enabling us so. In true spirit of Sikhism the following three are expressions of the free will and understanding tenets.

It is of my free will and no one else's business.

I wish Sikhism evolves towards free will in these matters.

To each their own, I accept other people's decisions about their own lives and living.

Just some thoughts as we converse and share.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[spnadmin]

Ambarsaria ji

2. We seek answers out of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji versus trying to understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This is again a fast and convenient approach where we may believe that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a book of answers versus a teacher. A book of answers is limited to the number of questions answered and is rarely a good teacher. For me Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is way beyond a book of answers but a supreme teacher. Some subjects if so thought by Guru ji's and others may have been addressed head on but not all is possibly addresses in questions and answers format. I believe the subject of this thread falls into that category as I did search a bit to find specific questions and answers dialog but was not successful though I stand corrected.

Thanks for capturing this very deep truth in 1 paragraph, and in so clear a way.

 

[Brother Onam]

==g

Its actually well documented that homosexuality exists in other mammal species as well not just humans. Dolphins for example are known to engage in sex for pleasure reasons just like humans. So the idea of sex just for offspring doesn't entirely hold up in the animal world.

Angrisha ji,
It sounds like you are conflating two different points. On one hand you say "homosexuality exists in other mammals", then: animals engage in "sex for pleasure reasons".
I'm pretty sure animals have been observed exhibiting casual sexual activity, even among the same sex; yet I'd be very surprised if someone documented an individual male animal living as 'female'; behaving as -and dwelling among- females, and seeking sexual partnership only from other males, which would constitute 'homosexual' behaviour to me.

 

[Harry Haller]

Angrisha ji,
It sounds like you are conflating two different points. On one hand you say "homosexuality exists in other mammals", then: animals engage in "sex for pleasure reasons".
I'm pretty sure animals have been observed exhibiting casual sexual activity, even among the same sex; yet I'd be very surprised if someone documented an individual male animal living as 'female'; behaving as -and dwelling among- females, and seeking sexual partnership only from other males, which would constitute 'homosexual' behaviour to me.

I had a gerbil once I had my suspicions about

 

[angrisha]

Angrisha ji,
It sounds like you are conflating two different points. On one hand you say "homosexuality exists in other mammals", then: animals engage in "sex for pleasure reasons".
I'm pretty sure animals have been observed exhibiting casual sexual activity, even among the same sex; yet I'd be very surprised if someone documented an individual male animal living as 'female'; behaving as -and dwelling among- females, and seeking sexual partnership only from other males, which would constitute 'homosexual' behaviour to me.

Couple things, the point was to say that there are other reasons for sex than simply procreation.

Secondly, Im not sure I follow the idea of homosexual behavior (some clarification would be nice)
Because to me thats describing something/someone being transgendered. Which is a different concept, of being identified with a different gender than the one your born with. What you suggest may not be possible to observe or maybe animals might not be capable of it because the concept of gender is a subjective thing given to us by the society we are apart of.

Homosexual simply means sex with something that is the same as you? Which as I mentioned has been observed?

 

[swarn bains]

Sggs is a spiritual book. it only deals with you your guru and God. it guides how to become divine. it is not a management book of human code of conduct. this kind of questions are illogical shameful and disheartening. there are scriptures but of some other religions which do deal with administration. may be put that question there and hide your skull afterwards.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Sggs is a spiritual book. it only deals with you your guru and God. it guides how to become divine. it is not a management book of human code of conduct. this kind of questions are illogical shameful and disheartening. there are scriptures but of some other religions which do deal with administration. may be put that question there and hide your skull afterwards.

Swarn Bains ji how is the following question; illogical shameful and disheartening;

How you believe Sikhs should find answers about marriage and relationships?

I don't understand your statement.Of course one may say it is personal choice; or you can check it with their parents, their future partner or within themselves. Or we may simply say that the answers are self realization based on many aspects, etc.

No disrespect simply wanting you to elaborate in the context of the thread title the following;

• illogical
• shameful; and
• disheartening

Sat Sri Akal

 

[Harry Haller]

sorry I don't mean to be pedantic, but should we hide our skulls so that our jawbones do not get stolen?