Are They Leading Sikhs Away From The Guru?

Archived_member2

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Jul 18, 2004
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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Kelly_Kaur Jee!

The reverend Gurus have clearly explained all aspects of true Naam Simran.
This is one great Vaak from Guru Amar Daas Jee.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ਨ ਪਾਏ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਐਸੀ ਬਣਤ ਬਣਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੯॥
बिनु सतिगुर को नाउ न पाए प्रभि ऐसी बणत बणाई हे ॥९॥
"bin satgur ko naa-o na paa-ay parabh aisee banat banaa-ee hay." ||9|| SGGS Ang 1046-11
Without Satgur no one receives Naam. God has made such creation.


Balbir Singh
 
Apr 4, 2007
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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Kelly_Kaur Jee!

The reverend Gurus have clearly explained all aspects of true Naam Simran.
This is one great Vaak from Guru Amar Daas Jee.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ਨ ਪਾਏ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਐਸੀ ਬਣਤ ਬਣਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੯॥
बिनु सतिगुर को नाउ न पाए प्रभि ऐसी बणत बणाई हे ॥९॥
"bin satgur ko naa-o na paa-ay parabh aisee banat banaa-ee hay." ||9|| SGGS Ang 1046-11
Without Satgur no one receives Naam. God has made such creation.


Balbir Singh

and how is this secret? why is waheguru not acceptable? what's the secret naam (it's ok, you can tell me, i'm a sikh too :D)?


so were Bhatt Gayand and Bhai Gurdas wrong when they recited Waheguru?

Bhatt Gayand's banis are included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and therefore he cannot be wrong, as his words are the words of the Guru... and Bhai Gurdas is the "key to gurbani"...

what about Satnaam, OnKar, Nir-vair, Akaal-moorat, Gobind, Hari, Ram, Pritam, etc... are these also incorrect?


thanks!
 

Archived_member2

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Kelly_Kaur Jee!

Quote "and how is this secret?"
Without Satgur no one receives Naam. God has made such creation.
Who else can resolve this secret than the Sat Guru?

Quote "why is waheguru not acceptable?"
Waheguru is the great exclamatory expression and result of receiving true Naam.
Waheguru is not the Naam. The reverend Gurus have never said that Waheguru is the Naam.

Quote "what's the secret naam (it's ok, you can tell me, i'm a sikh too )?
Please beg from your Sat Guru? A true Sikh has received it. That is why He has become the Sikh. All others are bogus Sikhs.

Quote "so were Bhatt Gayand and Bhai Gurdas wrong when they recited Waheguru?"
Bhatt Gayand is surely praising the Sabad Guru.

Quote "Bhatt Gayand's banis are included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and therefore he cannot be wrong, as his words are the words of the Guru..."
That is true.

Quote "and Bhai Gurdas is the 'key to gurbani'..."
Since a writer has injected this impulse through preachers in some Sikhs, they are constantly searching, the lock not the Sat Guru.

Quote "what about Satnaam, OnKar, Nir-vair, Akaal-moorat, Gobind, Hari, Ram, Pritam, etc... are these also incorrect?"
No one is that smart that he can get it himself. God has made such creation.


Balbir Singh
 
Apr 4, 2007
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lol... bogus sikh? i see.

well i guess since i don't know the super secret "true" naam i'll just keep reciting gurmantar and mool mantar in hopes that guru sahib tells me someday. :)

thanks for your time!
 

KulwantK

SPNer
Oct 31, 2007
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Sat Nam and Greetings to all!
Here are some thoughts on this.
On the one hand, it may not matter exactly how you are breathing, so long as you have the Name of God in your mind as much as you can. On the other hand, if this breathing technique helps you to keep the Name, then there should be no harm in doing it.
My experience and the experiences of others I have spoken with who have used breathing techniques in doing Simran is that having some sort of a bit of breath work helps.
An interesting correlation is that if you will please reflect, that you can go without food for quite some time, without water for less time, but if you go without breathing for as little as a very few minutes, you can die. So maybe it is appropriate that you do breath work to assist in keeping the Name with you always.
Blessings and Cheers to all,
Kulwant
 

Archived_member2

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and KulwantK Jee!

Thanks for your post.

Quote "My experience and the experiences of others I have spoken with who have used breathing techniques in doing Simran is that having some sort of a bit of breath work helps."
More thoughts entangle a person his breath becomes short and irregular. This reduces his awareness of breath also considerably. An exercise to breathe deeper and regular brings its awareness thus diverting one from his thought process. This helps but its stability does not exist longer, nor it cures the cause of overflowing trivial thoughts forever.

Breath comes and goes also when one does not breathe. This domain also belongs to God. The human language but formulates sentences like 'I breathe'. Ego creates thus illusion. Ego convinces one that he can and he should influence his breath to live for better.

The true Gurus never talk about influencing breathing.
Through true Naam Simran breathing of a person becomes deeper and regular. He also achieves its awareness.
True Naam dazes the role of ego. Ego cannot learn Simran of its own. Ego already playing the role of the fake Guru does not want to share its place with the Sat Guru.
The presence of true Naam, Sabad Guru and the awareness of breath creates wedding stage marrying God.

Gurdev is singing often praising this stage using words 'Pranway' or 'Pranwat'.


Balbir Singh
 
Apr 4, 2007
934
29
Sat Nam and Greetings to all!
Here are some thoughts on this.
On the one hand, it may not matter exactly how you are breathing, so long as you have the Name of God in your mind as much as you can. On the other hand, if this breathing technique helps you to keep the Name, then there should be no harm in doing it.


the problem with this is that what Balbir Singh is suggesting is that we don't know the name of God. he's saying that "waheguru" is NOT god's name. that god's name is a secret and only special sikhs like him are allowed to know it. the rest of us are "bogus sikhs" (in Balbir's words) and cannot know the secret name. :)

or at least that's what i've learned from this very interesting thread!
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Kelly_Kaur Jee!

It is interesting how your smart mind helps analyzing things. It is not surprising why such minds block one to receive the wisdom of Naam.
The reverend Guru says that a true Sikh gets up well and meditates on Hari Naam. Before that he comes to know this Gur.
Strange, all Sikhs know God's Naam before they come to know the Sat Guru.


Balbir Singh
 

Sherab

SPNer
Mar 27, 2007
441
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the problem with this is that what Balbir Singh is suggesting is that we don't know the name of God. he's saying that "waheguru" is NOT god's name. that god's name is a secret and only special sikhs like him are allowed to know it. the rest of us are "bogus sikhs" (in Balbir's words) and cannot know the secret name. :)

or at least that's what i've learned from this very interesting thread!
I think in his case, the secret name is the lack of a name, as it shows duality - other and seperate from inherent god.
 

ikebalsingh

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Jan 20, 2008
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DHANAASAREE, FIRST MEHL:
That union with the Lord is acceptable, which is united in intuitive poise. Thereafter, one does not die, and does not come and go in reincarnation. The Lords slave is in the Lord, and the Lord is in His slave. Wherever I look, I see none other than the Lord. || 1 || The Gurmukhs worship the Lord, and find His celestial home. Without meeting the Guru, they die, and come and go in reincarnation. || 1 || Pause || So make Him your Guru, who implants the Truth within you, who leads you to speak the Unspoken Speech, and who merges you in the Word of the Shabad. Gods people have no other work to do; they love the True Lord and Master, and they love the Truth. || 2 || The mind is in the body, and the True Lord is in the mind. Merging into the True Lord, one is absorbed into Truth. Gods servant bows at His feet. Meeting the True Guru, one meets with the Lord. || 3 || He Himself watches over us, and He Himself makes us see. He is not pleased by stubborn-mindedness, nor by various religious robes. He fashioned the body-vessels, and infused the Ambrosial Nectar into them; Gods Mind is pleased only by loving devotional worship. || 4 || Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment. By great cleverness, one is consigned to coming and going in reincarnation. One who chants the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and eats the food of the Fear of God becomes Gurmukh, the Lords servant, and remains absorbed in the Lord. || 5 || He worships stones, dwells at sacred shrines of pilgrimage and in the jungles, wanders, roams around and becomes a renunciate. But his mind is still filthy  how can he become pure? One who meets the True Lord obtains honor. || 6 || One who embodies good conduct and contemplative meditation, his mind abides in intuitive poise and contentment, since the beginning of time, and throughout the ages. In the twinkling of an eye, he saves millions. Have mercy on me, O my Beloved, and let me meet the Guru. || 7 || Unto whom, O God, should I praise You? Without You, there is no other at all. As it pleases You, keep me under Your Will. Nanak, with intuitive poise and natural love, sings Your Glorious Praises. || 8 || 2 ||

Saturday, 29thMaagh (Samvat 538 Nanakshahi) {Page : 686}
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Why The Disciples Don't Come

One day while a spiritual Master was taking a walk, he happened to meet a former disciple of his on the sidewalk.
"Venu," the Master said, "you are so dear to me. Why have you stopped coming to my ashram?"
The disciple bowed his head in shame and said, "Master, I have to be sincere. Just because that rascal Tushar comes to you, I no longer come. I don't want to see his face.
"Venu!" exclaimed the Master. "What kind of reason is this?" The Master paused then said sadly, "I know of a spiritual Master who had an Indian disciple and an American disciple, both of whom were women. The Indian and the American became intimate friends Unfortunately their friendship did not last and they were soon at daggers drawn. One day the Indian woman came to the Master and said, 'Master, I am leaving your ashram.' The Master asked, 'Why, why?' She said, 'If that American lady gets God-realisation, then I don't need it. It is beneath my dignity to get something which she will have. I don't need your God-realisation. I could never be satisfied with anything she might get.' Now, my Venu, you are acting the same way."
Venu said, "Forgive me, Master. I know my reason sounds absurd, but to me Tushar's very presence is an eyesore."
"Venu," said the Master, "there are other disciples who have left me. They, too, stopped coming because of personal grievances. They too quarrelled with disciples who continue to come to my ashram. Now granted, Tushar is bad according to your point of view. But since he continues to meditate, since he is still in our boat, he is definitely going to realise God much sooner than you."
"Master!" Venu cried out. "I can't bear to hear you say that!"
The Master continued. "You have left the path because of your disagreement with somebody. Here our difficulty is that we lack wisdom. We don't think of what we are actually doing to ourselves. By finding fault with others, we are just stabbing ourselves and nothing else. We must always try to be wise, divinely wise." The Master paused. "Venu, leaving aside your difficulties with Tushar, what kind of progress do you think you are making now?"
Venu was silent.
The Master said, "What is most painful is that when you came to me you had much more inspiration and aspiration than you have now. That means that four, five or six years ago you were a better aspirant than you are now. Like you, other disciples had utmost sincerity, devotion and aspiration when they first came to me. Some of my disciples were really so pure, so divine; they were absolute angels in every sense of the term. They gave such promises that in this incarnation either they would be on the verge of realisation or they would actually realise God. Now those disciples are giving us another realisation. On their way to God-realisation, by mistake they have realised something else instead of God, and that is ignorance. Now what has happened to them? I can only use the term 'fallen' to describe them; and this word is absolutely applicable to you, my child."
Venu buried his head in his hands. "Master, what can I do now?"
"My child, nothing is lost. You have not lost the ladder of your spiritual evolution; it is right in front of you. While you were climbing you lost your footing and that is why you fell down. Now again you can try to climb up. But you have to be always careful to place your foot on the proper rung. Then you will again be able to climb back to the height which you had a few years ago. What you once achieved is not lost. Only be alert, be careful to keep your footing so that again you can reach your height. Then you can go high, higher, highest; far beyond what you achieved in the past."

( Why The Disciples Don't Come — Sri Chinmoy Library)
 
Apr 4, 2007
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Are you saying God doesn't exist?


did i say that? no. did i say anything resembling that? no. so why would you put such words in my mouth?


i sad the LACK of a name is what doesn't exist. lack means "not there". if something is not there, how can it exist? i never said anything about GOD.

please learn to read. i'm getting tired of your insults.
 

Astroboy

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(Prince Siddhartha is walking in the garden in a contemplative mood. All of a sudden a bird falls down in front of him.)
SIDDHARTHA: Ah, poor bird! My heart is bleeding for you. Who has done this? Who has hurt you? Who has aimed this arrow at you? Poor, innocent bird! Let me take the arrow out of your body. (He removes the arrow.) Now let me try to cure you.
(Enter Devadatta)
DEVADATTA: Siddhartha, this is my bird. What right have you to keep my bird? Give it to me!
SIDDHARTHA: No, this is my bird, Devadatta.
DEVADATTA: Your bird! I shot this bird. It belongs to me. This is my arrow. I aimed at the bird and it fell down here. It is mine, mine, my property, my possession.
SIDDHARTHA: Devadatta, if I had not removed the arrow from the bird, it would have died by this time.
DEVADATTA: The point is not whether the bird would have died or would not have died. The bird is alive, and it is my possession. It was my power, my skill, my capacity that brought the bird down to earth. You cannot have it. Everybody appreciates and admires you for your heart, for your kindness. But now let the world appreciate my capacity, my skill. You be satisfied with what you have: love. And I shall be satisfied with what I have: power. My power, my skill at archery deserves this bird, not your love.
SIDDHARTHA: O Devadatta, you have the power to kill, and I have the power to love. But since I have this animal, this poor innocent bird, you shall not get it back.
DEVADATTA: Siddhartha, there is a time to listen to your philosophy, and there are people to listen to your philosophy. But this is not the time, and I am not the person. You can advocate your philosophy to others who want to be like you, who want to live in the moon-world and have no practical sense. Life has to be practical. Life needs strength, life needs vigour. But your life is a life of laziness and false kindness. You should be strong. You are the Prince, and soon you will have to rule your Kingdom. This kind of false attitude will not help you in any way. What I have done today, you will do millions of times more. I was about to kill a bird. You will one day kill men. At that time your philosophy will change.
SIDDHARTHA: No, Devadatta, my philosophy will always remain the same. My philosophy is the philosophy of compassion, and not the philosophy of destruction.
DEVADATTA: You stay with your philosophy, and let me stay with mine. My philosophy is power. Your philosophy is compassion. Well and good. Now give me my bird.
SIDDHARTHA: Sorry, I will not give it to you.
DEVADATTA: Are you prepared to go to the court to fight for this bird?
SIDDHARTHA: Yes, I am fully prepared.

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