Ardas Over Food = Purification Like Halal?

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear Giani Ji,

What is your position on distribution of Karhah Parsad with a spoon or wearing a plastic glove. I tried to persuade the distributer at one time but was a total failure due to the same reason. The educated Sikh being in USA for 50 years refused to do so and told me if so then I should do it. I could have in a normal situation but I cannot bend because of two back surgeries.
Since some Westerners come to Gurudwara as a guest or to know about the faith, I think it will be a good idea to do so as in the Dailies and Cafeterias gloves are used to distribute or sell food.
Your thoughts, please as it would be more hygienic.

Cordially,

Virinder

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Guru Piayare Dr Sahib Jio,
Gurfateh.

I have no doubt at all....IF gloves had existed in Guru Jis time...they would have recommended them or at least have no objection to their use. After all we do use spoons and ladels in dishing out kheer/daal/rice/dahi etc...a clean spoon would be ideal.
But as you know..the Thekedaars in our Gurdwaras are very anti-changes/progress/innovations/departure from the rut...they would prefer to ruffle no feathers, offend no one..and carry on in the same rut.
Our Gurus stressed so much and heavily on Hygeine/cleanliness/safaii. They knew and were aware that diseases were not caused by "devis" or bhoot chhaiyas..but organisms. Thats is why they stressed on controlled food/diet/rest/games/physical exercise etc for a Helathy Body and a Healthy mind.

I see absolutley no spiritual benefit attached to serving Deg with Bare hands ONLY. Sikhism is a modern progressive religion and we have no reasons to be backward in this area for any reason such as "prampara" (tradition). For this same reason I also dont support langgar on the FLOOR ONLY. As long as EQUALITY OF STATUS is observed...( same chairs/tables for ALL) Langgar can be served to those seated at tables/chairs as we do at home.

Thank you.

 

[spnadmin]

Gyani ji

I agree in principle with you. :hmm: But the sevadhars are very clean, there is a lot of hand washing, the floors are is immaculate, no one has dirty feet. There are no smells. I am not even afraid to use the bathroom in bare feet. Food is served with spoons or tongs on disposable plates/cuts.

And the human race has survived a long time in the midst of germs :yes: We are a hardy species :yes: Maybe people worry too much about germs This of course is not an excuse for ignoring really dirty situations where some regular educational program on sanitation would be helpful :inca: Just me thinking out loud.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

aad ji,
Actually.....I am picking up the needle in the haystack. 99.9% of Sewadaars in Gurdwars are very careful about cleanliness/hygiene...and THATS why we have NEVER had any cases of Food poisonings in any Gurdwara Langgar ever ( Some may call this Guru Jis Kirpa...i have no problem with that either..) BUT here and there does coem along the odd one out..who is naturally careless...and carries this over to the Gurdwara...and no one wants to be the one to tell him/her. To be really and absolutely honest..I have just seen this one case in my 60 years...BUT we cansurely IMPROVE..and Give a better impression....after all we have new materials..shining stainless steel...etc to give our Gurdwara Kitchens that ultra modern look and same to the sewadaars.

Here I would like to place my appreciation of ALL sewadaars all over the world..who have donethe GURUS WORK well. These sewadaars are truly wonderful. THANK YOU for making the GURU NANAK JIS LANGGAR work 24/7..This Institution of the GURU is one of the most striking to non-Sikhs....and we couldnt have doen it do well without the hardworkign sewadaars... Keep it UP Jios...whoever,whenever..whereever..ALL OVER !! I Salute YOU all.:welcome::ice:

 

[Archived_member7]

One more reason i feel our oldies wouldnt wish to change is ...the person who distributes parshaad is a Sikh , he can be a of any class or creed. During those times there might have been customs based on caste criteria, the touch of the person became important to get ride of the caste pollution in the acccepting person's mind.

To give an example, I am fond of visiting tribes where ever i get a chance to. 3 years back I visited Jhabua district in Madhya Pradesh to meet the Bhil tribe. I stayed there for 4 days and observed their behaviour.When they meet they use to do a handshake with both hands. I was used to doing a Namaste and had thought that since it was a Hindi speaking state NAMASTE would look decent than my city style 'Hi Man !Whatsssup ! ' . To my surprise the people with whom I got friendly and took me around stopped me from just folding hands and doing a namaste. They instructed me to shake hands like they do since the Bhils would feel bad !!! Touching was very important...of course that wasnt the same with womenfolk.

 

[spnadmin]

rajhaksa ji

I am truly envious of your experience. May have to change my course of life.

 

[Randip Singh]

Some really good points here:

1) Ardas = Thanks Halal = Purification and pre-requisite to becoming Muslim.

2) Purification and viewed by some as being Ardas and is not the same as cleanliness as is required by a Sikh.

3) This idea of ritual purity in Sikhism is man made and has nothing to do with Gurmat.

Any others I have missed?

 

[Archived_member7]

Aad ji you r welcome to India ...and certainly you will love interacting ....by the way I did visit Niranjanpur...i had spoken about earlier. It was awesome . Our Granthi ji although wasnt much clear about what I was looking for, he is a young chap but really very helpful. He introduced me to people there and found out they wernt Sikligars but they were Gujarati Sikhs ...!!!!!

Our Granthi ji tried to have a meeting with the Pradhaan ( a community chief ). How ever he was reluctant and just rushed away, It took me an hour to make them realize that I had no other intention beside meeting them. They questioned me a lot and after they were satisfied they asked me to sit with them.

They are prosperous farmers and had come to Indore 3-4 generations back, they now speak the local Malwi language instead of Gujarati. Most of them are doing good . I asked them how they got into Sikhi to which they explained about their financial conditions at that time. Thier physical features indicated that they were probably of tribal origin short height and many with the forefront teeth out...

The punjabi sIKHS as usual do not like them and make fun of their Malwi accent. At times it seems they are forced to speak punjabi. Parcharaks do not come to them as often.

Well my visits will be mostly weekly now ... I shall try my best ....and shall try to also arrange lectures for them. It was really heart warming to meet them.

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Thanks Giani Ji, I needed your blessings-if an occasion arises will try to invoke your advice. At least now I have you agreeing with me. You are right about Thekedars of Sikh Faith.
Regards Always.
Virinder

 

[Archived_Member4]

Singh Ji,
No offense.
But I wont pick up and eat off the floor. GURU Ji showed us the Ultimate cleanliness rules..ishnaans and all, sarovars, baolis etc to wash ...

Guru Ji GIFT..YES..but not when its been dropped...I wont go that far..maybe my loss..who knows..??
I wont pick up rice/pizza/roti daal milk kheer etc thats been spilled onto the floor either....even if its the Gurdwara langgar floor. If the sewadaar accidentally spills a karchha of kheer on to the floor in front of me instead of into my thali...he can clean it up later/i can clean it up..but i wont eat that. Of course i wont purposely drop/spill Guru ka Lnaggar/Karrah parshad.

Imho..Guru ji's RESPECT is in FOLLOWINMG HIS HUKMS..instructions..maryada..advice....reading/vicharing His Gurbani.... THIS RESPECT i go as far as i can to show to Guru Ji...

Chardeekalla Ji:yes:

Gyan ji

That is what im trying to make people aware of. In a restaurant, when they get all dressed up and go to have a nice time, the cooks at the restaurant don't wash there hands, but people have no problem with this. The cook can go to the bathroom and come out without washing his hands (the possiblity of this happening in the west is pretty high and in india might aswell promote it) and still people won't complain or even get up and leave, but enjoy the food and say mmmmmmmm this is really good, we gotta come here next time.

Its this double standard people have here that makes me laugh at them. I'm for keeping food completely clean. But before people start picking at the Gurdwara, look at what is happening at restaurants and fast food places where you eat at.

Langar or Karrah Parshad from Guru Sahib is a blessing and if some drops on the floor right infromt of you pick it up and eat it. It's not to say the Karrah Prashad is pure now or its the dust of the feet of the sangat, but just a show of respect to Guru Sahib offering to us.

 

[BhagatSingh]

That is what im trying to make people aware of. In a restaurant, when they get all dressed up and go to have a nice time, the cooks at the restaurant don't wash there hands, but people have no problem with this. The cook can go to the bathroom and come out without washing his hands (the possiblity of this happening in the west is pretty high and in india might aswell promote it) and still people won't complain or even get up and leave, but enjoy the food and say mmmmmmmm this is really good, we gotta come here next time.

Were tehre any studies done on this? I doubt it. There's noway one can know that. Its like saying the number of unreported rapes are rising! ??

If your trying to make people aware then it might not be a bad idea to present evidence.

Langar or Karrah Parshad from Guru Sahib is a blessing and if some drops on the floor right infromt of you pick it up and eat it. It's not to say the Karrah Prashad is pure now or its the dust of the feet of the sangat, but just a show of respect to Guru Sahib offering to us.

If you really wantto show repect , why don't you go around picking up oher people's parshad as well?
Food in general is a blessing. I agree with Jarnail Singh ji on this one. Its taught to us that its respect but when did eating dirt become respect??
Why not go around and pick up people's parshad bits and tissues and throw them in the garbage for respect?? Keeping the hall clean is respect, going overboard and eating off the floor is stupidity.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Singh Ji...
How can cow dung make food impure ??

Gyani ji I am not saying cow dung is impure, because purely its cow dung

Cow dung is dirty as it came from a cows rectum. It's the waste after the cow eats the green grass and the cow absorbs all the good stuff, but then leaves a big dark green patch of **** on the grass. Its a good soucre of nitrogen for farmers fields.

Its just the FUEL....while the food is in the container...
and anyway the FIRE burns and cleans automatically.

yeah the food is in the container, but the person who brought the cow dung with there bare hands and then started cooking the food did not use soap to wash there hands, as they didn't have soap back then. Also people had servants that cooked the food so there is even a bigger possibility that the hands werent even washed at all after touching the cow dung.

Restaurants have dirty cooks..so have Gurdwaras...(sometimes)

Yeah this is the case, but here's another interesting fact. Railings in public buildings are one of the dirties things to touch. But people still do it and go on with there day. But when it comes to the Gurdwara for taking a little bit of Karrah Prashad off the floor that just fell, the nose is held high and the head nods left to right.

I once REFUSED to take Parshad from a Singh Ji who had such dirty nails chock full of black dirt. Doesnt he have the DUTY to Himself and GURU JI..to NOT take sewa of distributing parshad IF he cannot clean his nails. Does the Parshad being blessed with Ardass done/Kirapn Bhet make it all right to distribute with dirty hands..still "holy". BTW Foods are never HOLY/UNHOLY.....Good Actions are stressed in Gurbani.:happy:

yes, its the sewadars who should make sure the nails are nicely clean and hands are washed. But this brings us back to the restuarants and cow dung thing again. I say its more of a psychological thing because in the Gurdwara case its seen and in the restaurant its not seen, same with railings, so its ignored.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Were tehre any studies done on this? I doubt it. There's noway one can know that. Its like saying the number of unreported rapes are rising! ??

If your trying to make people aware then it might not be a bad idea to present evidence.

You gotta get more out in the world bhagat singh. Plus a study done on a restaurant employees not washing hands will cause the business to lose business. No restaurant will allow it.

But here's a link to some stats.
Hand Washing Statistics: People Don't Wash Hands - Minnesota Dept. of Health

To actually see all of this go down a person should real get a job at a restaurant. My mom worked at one and she noticed majority of the time the cooks never washed there hands. And this was a high end restaurant. Than I had couple of buddys who worked at fast food restaurants and they tell me the same thing majority of the people don't wash hands who handle the food.

If you really wantto show repect , why don't you go around picking up oher people's parshad as well?

You have completely losed the whole meaning go back and read again.

Food in general is a blessing. I agree with Jarnail Singh ji on this one. Its taught to us that its respect but when did eating dirt become respect??

Just because it fell on the carpet its dirt now. Read Gurbani sir. Read Ang Sung 472, and 1195.

Why not go around and pick up people's parshad bits and tissues and throw them in the garbage for respect?? Keeping the hall clean is respect, going overboard and eating off the floor is stupidity.

Read Gurbani sir if you think its stupid, right now your thinking like a Brahmin. Read Ang Sung 472, and 1195

 

[spnadmin]

I can't remember what we are supposed to be talking about...

 

[BhagatSingh]

I can't remember what we are supposed to be talking about...

I think its something to do with me being a Brahmin.

Singh ji why can't you get on with an argument without introducing fallacies? What do you want me to read on those pages?

Just because it fell on the carpet its dirt now.

It doesn't take long for food to pick up mircoorganisms, some of which can be trouble.

 

[Archived_Member4]

I think its something to do with me being a Brahmin.

Singh ji why can't you get on with an argument without introducing fallacies?

Saying something is something doesn't make it something. You need proof

What do you want me to read on those pages?

I want you to read the whole Ang Sung, since sometimes Gurbani is taken out of context I would rather have you read the whole Ang Sang. The Gurbani that is on Ang Sung 472 by Guru Nanak Dev ji should be read and on Ang Sung 1159 by Bhagat Kabeer ji. You get to read two whole Ang Sungs of Gurbani, there should be a big smile on your face, like this

It doesn't take long for food to pick up mircoorganisms, some of which can be trouble.

Read Gurbani as told above, you'll walk away with knowing what is clean and what is not clean.

 

[spnadmin]

The topic of the thread concerns whether Ardas over food prepared for langar is equivalant to Halal of food for Muslims. We are drifting badly. aad002

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Singh Ji,
You wrote:
<<<<<<yeah the food is in the container, but the person who brought the cow dung with there bare hands and then started cooking the food did not use soap to wash there hands, as they didn't have soap back then. Also people had servants that cooked the food so there is even a bigger possibility that the hands werent even washed at all after touching the cow dung.<<<<<<<<<<<<

About what period are you referring to....because about 530 Years ago..GURU NANAK JI had SOAP...Deh SABOON leaheah uh thoyeh (JAJPJI). Guru Nanak ji was a Farmer..and He certainly used/handled Cow DUNG....and I will Never beleive He never used SOAP - SABOON to wash His Hands !! Guur Ji wouldnt be talking about SABOON if it wasnt that common a thing.....:ice::ice:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

AAD ji...

I sympathise...the Wind doth blow..and we doth drift..here and there like straws in the wind....
but imho..there is tiny link...."Hallal"...purity...cleanliness..dirt..hygiene...spirtual purity..physical purity...dirty minds...dirty stair-banisters..dirty lift buttons..dirty door handles...all are facts of daily life
some of us are practical..others scale heights of purity etc doing mental calisthenics....modern Jains..Modern Sikhs...it takes variety to make up the 6 billion humans...and thus you will get as many replies going off on a tangent frequently...There is a lesson to be learnt in each and every Message...just pull the plug when we are done:whisling::whisling::whisling::whisling:

 

[spnadmin]

AAD ji...

I sympathise...the Wind doth blow..and we doth drift..here and there like straws in the wind....
but imho..there is tiny link...."Hallal"...purity...cleanliness..dirt..hygiene...spirtual purity..physical purity...dirty minds...dirty stair-banisters..dirty lift buttons..dirty door handles...all are facts of daily life
some of us are practical..others scale heights of purity etc doing mental calisthenics....modern Jains..Modern Sikhs...it takes variety to make up the 6 billion humans...and thus you will get as many replies going off on a tangent frequently...There is a lesson to be learnt in each and every Message...just pull the plug when we are done:whisling::whisling::whisling::whisling:

Will have to consider Randip ji's take on the discussion...