Ardaas Changed

[Randip Singh]

Dr tirlochan singh did a lot of research in manuscripts and writings in dasam granth. given below is a good article by him.


The History and Compilation of the Dasm Granth (Part 1) - Dr. Trilochan Singh

There seems to be no analysis of authenticity.

 

[Inder singh]

There seems to be no analysis of authenticity.

What type of analysis of authenticity we are seeking for the bani of our Guru.Religious scriptures are above academic analysis.

Nevertheless Dasam granth manuscripts were studied by sodhak committe in Amritsar around 1897. They gave their report finding them the bani of tenth master.

 

[Inder singh]

Randip

Given in this link is the report of sodhak committee

Sri Dasam Granth Sahib

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Re: Change done in ardass in Finland

Dear Jaspi,

Gurufateh ji,

would like to address few of your concerns, first of all is need to understand the maryada word itself. All educated people know that their are rules/laws made for betterment. Now as every individuals are unique so is their thinking, but to bring the mass to a common platform you need to agree collectively on some thing. This has been the puratan maryada when sikhs used to gather and reveiw their activities/problems. And in this event they also took a call on Ardass too. We need to be a bit humble to understand the need, it is very common feeling among all the people in the world to have their own unique code of conduct, which makes them different and important in the human society. It was also imparted to the sikh society to be in maryada, it is all together different issue who is doing what?
Ardass has few forms as acknowledged by the panth, which changes as per the need ( khushi di Ardass, markat di Ardass, Nawen Karj di Ardass, Shukrane di Ardass, Gupat ardass etc.) But in all the main body is same only in part where we need to adress the topic is taken in account. Ardass is in simple terms a prayer to your Godly connection. It can be done personaly too, but when it comes in question for mass then the layed maryada shoud be followed. But why? I might be able to clear it with some examples. In every school, before the starting the day they offer prayer and all the different schools have their own prayer, but the schools of same manegment/group across different places have same prayer(please try to understand the psychology behind it). I have seen children arguing on the topic that your schools prayer is not right see my schools prayer. This attitude is not only with kids it is more in grown up ones, this issue was well addressed in past by making one common Ardass for the panth and was even layed down the way to bring change future if ever required.
All Gurujis also setted up a maryada and who followed it were Gurmukhs and the ones who made their own ways, went away from Gurus. This was treated as Guru Panth not some bodies personal Panth so the changes should not be done on personal thinking . The unique code is very much essential to keep the racial identity intact.
Now regarding the fact of Muslims and Hindus. History has proved, if some body wants to know the facts, that my dear Hindu friends were more disastrous to the Sikhs than the Muslim friends. It was Muslim government but was always provoked by influential Hindu personalities. The Muslims were not so bad as portrayed by preachers, they trialed people with their sharah rules and gave punishments, now the way the cases were presented was different, they were cunning on those grounds. Lets not forget that at that time their was no democracy, and any ruling power will not take a threat so easily. They allowed the kiths and kins to practice the last rituals as per ones own religion. But what happened in the so called 48 years old Democracy, the sworn-in Prime Minister himself says " Muthi bhar Sikh hai kuchal dalo"( ****** teach them a dyer lesson). And this was solemnly abided by his fellow gentlemen, each of them wanted to score more than each other, by killing innocent people(sikhs) in the country to please their master. And this the BBC's report that their was no body to take care of the bodies lying on the streets for seven/eight days, and snaps show dogs dragging the bodies. Thank God still people have faith in democracy. What happened after that it is going to be 25 years now, not a single person punished for the ****** act. It was a crime committed in the broad day light in front of thousands (literate, nonliterate, professionals, businessmen, peasants, kids, women etc.) and that too not for a day or two, the killing went on and on for six/seven days, till your Democratic Prime Minister was satisfied.
There is always room for difference of opinion but at large it should not be so that it completely changes the ground realities. And if some body is not practicing the right path it doesn't give me the liberty to another wrong. And never two wrong can make a right.
with the pledge be concerned for each other, be united , be humble and understanding and maintain the concept of Nayara Panth.

with regards,

Bhupinder Singh.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh...

Well said...I appreciate it.................

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh....



I request you all to please read this post with open mind...because then only we will learn true Sikhi...I am ignorant and doesn't have knowledge..whatever I collected from listening Katha veechar and felt Gurbani and Sikhi...I would like to share it with you.... I am sorry to use harsh and ignorant words...please forgive me thinking me as new ...without knowledge and a learner........






I think that we all are fighting with our own opinion and conclusions. One says something and other starts targeting it, and then other comes and defends one’s point.
Does anybody exactly know what was the actual reason and justification behind changing Ardaas. First let’s find out the reason, then we will start discussion over it, because we are providing our views, but what they thought before changing it, is crucial to find root cause so that difficulty has to be cut out from root. I feel that we should follow Akal Takht...superemo....rarther than wonder around the world. We should try to make our system at SGPC full proof...rather than coming up with new ruling authorities.......other wise one day we will have many authorities giving different rulings.....like what we have now in many Gurdwaras........please come together and change the world........

HARTEJ KOUR
this change in Ardaas is made for the good and i don’t think there is anything debatable on this..

-I request you humbly my sister to please justify the change with comparison of old and new ardaas, and please elaborate your thinking?. We don’t want people who direct goats sitting on camel..its a proverb…

-“Har Jas sune…Na Har Jas Gaavey….Baatan Hee Se Asmaan Girvaey” (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji)

RUPINDER SINGH
In my opinion..Nothing has been done wrong...

-Veer Ji…please elaborate your opinion.
We all know this has been a long standing issue around panth but SGPC has been ignoring it for a long time only from the fear that it is a sensitive topic.

-Mera Guru maaf kare apne daas nu...............let suppose tomorrow a fool and idiot like me will say that we should also cut short all remaining paras of Ardaas and say that we don’t need Ek Onkaar .rather we will change it to Ek Akal Purakh Prasad…. and start propaganda for this in local area , write letter to SGPC for a year..and suddenly come out with my own ardaas, and that is to be common vote of sangat of local gurdwara…where I have influence, and blame SGPC that because you have not responded, I changed it…then not only me but everybody will say that this guy is insane……. …does any body really knows about this issue earlier…that Finland wants to change Ardaas…and why?

And I dont think it is anything about showing anti-faminine attitude at all..but It is about extending the theme of Guru Granth Sahb into Ardaas. Sikhs are never told to worship idols..they are only told to worship The True God. And Akal Purkh could not be translated as Kal Purush Mahadev as the very starting lines of Guru Granth sahb explain "Karta Purkh" as formless. It is just a way to address GOD. True Sikhs have due respect for females and will continue to do so.

-Where it says that Bhagawti means a idol or devi…? Please go through the links: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/25092-ardaas-changed-7.html#post101324
-http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/25092-ardaas-changed-7.html#post101336
We respect our Shastrs also.. we bow to them …they are great because our Guru Ji, Baba Deep Singh Ji…and many other Sikhs made them respectful for us….no body respects Sword of Aurgenjeb…because the purpose of using it was wrong…Sikhs can make anything respectful…they made weapons respectful……do you think its idol worship ?

But now the suit is there some will wear it and some won't

-Even Radha Soami and Dera Saccha Sauda, and many others have suit ready…so do Sikhs wear it? We have to decide what is wrong and what is right. Not everything happens is right, and not everything happens is wrong. But changing first lines of ardaas which is said by our Guru is actually changing Gurbani ( A baani from Guru) (in hindi it means Vaani of Guru…) and this has to be stopped before it damages whole Sikh system.….which will happen soon, if it is not stopped.

BILLMAMAK

Remember Ardas is just a prayer. Say it in any manner and any language and anywhere. To whom it is addressed will understand and accept.

-You are right..but you really not bothered about changing something which is said by our Guru? I agree to change to some extent…change the rest of portion of Ardaas, but that has to be from SGPC and should be universally broadcasted. Changing our Guru wordings is really disgraceful to whole Sikh foundation

Please read this post by Bhupinder Singh Ji: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/25092-ardaas-changed-6.html#post101309

-par (parminder)singh Ji
usa
Let us propogate Sikh and Sikhi of AGGS, and move away from the Khalsa rituals which are more akin to Brahmanism. (period).

- Veer ji..I request you to try to find out the reason why it tooks 10 Shareer or Jaama and 1430 Angs to complete Sikhi and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I hope you will find a reason of creation of Khalsa, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I am getting a message from your that we should follow earlier process which is easy, for example…don’t smoke…just eat raw tobacco leaf..its easy.. ( it’s a negative example…(Sorry for using this example…I mean something else)..lest have some positive example…. say lets drink water, eat sugar, tea powder…there is no need to cook it to get a tea….. ( Bhul chuk maaf..but this came to mind after reading your reply)

'every Khalsa is a Sikh, but not every Sikh is a Khalsa'. These are TWO separate entities, and should live in harmony and with absolute respect for each other. I am a Sikh of AGGS. It is time to follow the teachings of our Gurus, let us all work to remove the shackles of rituals, which got added upon us without even our knowing.

-Wrongly Said…first one has to be Sikh, then he will become Singh…Singh is only after he Armit Chak and becomes Khalsa….the basic principle and understanding is not clear..Guru Gobind Singh Ji was Guru Gobind Rai…before Amrit Chak and became Singh only after Amrit Chak. I particularly say that if somebody is mona..then he is neither Sikh, nor of any religion. Because earlier everybody used to keep hairs, muslims, hindus, even in European countries…but they were not Sikh….one has to follow Guru Nanak to be called as Sikh……. I know I am harsh..but I have to clarify the truth that Sikhs basic identity is our Guru Nanak …who kept his hairs…and first Sikh was Bibi Naanki, Second was Nawab Rai Bular (a muslim)…and at later stage, before starting UDAASI- starting journey for Srilanka (Sangla Deep) to meet Raja Shiv Naab, Guru Nanak Ji gave Charan Pahul to Rai Bular . Even in Sri Lanka..Guru Nanak Ji gave charan Pahul to many for letting them in Sikhism…and Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave it to us forever via Panj Pyare…… Like a son of scientist may not be a scientist…a son or daughter of Sikh may not be a Sikh…I don’t know how a person proudly say that he is a sikh without hairs, and even have Singh as his middle name….Sikh…then Singh………Sikh means who is learner of Guru and if anyone hasn’t learned the teachings of Guru, then I don’t think he is a Sikh. Particularly he is without any religion, without any Murshid…(Sorry if I hurted any body reading this)

-“Kesh Shastr Bin Pao Lakh nar Jaano” means a person (nar) without Kesh is ¼, and who have kesh, but not the Shastr..he is 1/2 . Guru Ji not used Sikh here…because without kesh a person can not be called as Sikh…one more thing (Please go through these recording, it recorded in April 2009, this Baisakhi Pruab)

-zSHARE - What is Khalsa..._.mp3

-zSHARE - SIKH IS ALL FOUR.mp3

-zSHARE - VAISAKHI KATHA 2009- 1.mp3

-zSHARE - VAISAKHI KATHA 2009 - 2.mp3

-zSHARE - VAISAKHI KATHA 2009 - 3.mp3

-zSHARE - VAISAKHI KATHA 2009 - 4.mp3


zSHARE - KATHA VAISAKHI DIWAS 2008-GDNS LDH.mp3

-“Rehat Bina Neh Sikh Kahavey…Rehat Bina Dar Chottan Khawey” , “Rehni Rahey Soyi Sikh Mera…O Sahib ..Main Uska Chera”………..and what is first step of Rehat… “Pratham Rehat Eh Jaan ..Khande Ki Pahul Chake”. in turn it means...Without Amrit Chak..a person is not a Sikh……..

Please try to learn ....kill ignorance with knowledge....

Bhul Chuk Maaf..........please forgive me if I hurt anybody.....I am not having a great knowledge of sikhi...but whatever I learned.. sharing with you........

Daas bhulanhaar hai..Guru Roop Sangat bakshanhaar hai....daas di galtiyaan baksh lena ji..........

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh...

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Adskhalsa ji,

Guru Fateh.

Your write:

I have to clarify the truth that Sikhs basic identity is our Guru Nanak …who kept his hairs…and first Sikh was Bibi Naanki, Second was Nawab Rai Bular (a muslim)…and at later stage, before starting UDAASI- starting journey for Srilanka (Sangla Deep) to meet Raja Shiv Naab, Guru Nanak Ji gave Charan Pahul to Rai Bular . Even in Sri Lanka..Guru Nanak Ji gave charan Pahul to many for letting them in Sikhism…

Please elaborate the concept of Charan Pahul from Gurmat viewpoint. You can use SGGS as your guide, our only Guru now to explain it if you wish to.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Adskhalsa ji,

Guru Fateh.

Your write:



Please elaborate the concept of Charan Pahul from Gurmat viewpoint. You can use SGGS as your guide, our only Guru now to explain it if you wish to.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh Ji...

Thanks for encouraging me to find out this in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...I will try my best...with Guru's Grace......Before being Khalsa creation...Charan Pahul was a tradition where Guru Ji keep thumb of feet in water and Sikhs drink that...well I heard it in Katha veechar...of Suraj Prakash...Ithihass Guru Nanak Dev Ji...live from Gurdwara Dukh Niwaran Sahib, Ludhiana...Uploaded the live recordings at Sikhitube.com but presently that site is down...its down since last one week...but a concerned person emailed me that whenever that site will up..he will email me....... Once that up..will provide the Ithihaas links here....... till then let me find out a support from SGGS Ji.......I am just a beginner and as you are Waheguru Seeker.....I am far behind you standing in the same line...I will try my best Veer Ji...

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.........

 

[AdsKhalsa]

(parminder)singh Ji
usa
Let us propogate Sikh and Sikhi of AGGS, and move away from the Khalsa rituals which are more akin to Brahmanism. (period).

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh...


reading again an incident came to mind...Guru Ji is really great........

let share with you...

A Brahim Pandit once told Guru Gobind Singh Ji by creating Khalsa..you acutally bounded Sikhs in Cage...Guru Ji told him...Pandit Ji...will give you answer some day.......

A day came...and somebody gifted gold to Guru Gobind Singh Ji... Guru Ji..asked that Pandit...please check and tell that is this Gold is pure...Pandit ji said that Maharaj this is gifted by your Sikhs and your Sikhs will give you pure.......Guru Ji said..not like this...just check and then confirm...Pandit told that we need a Kasvati (a stone to check gold) and goldsmith to check the purity.........Goldsmith came and checked..the gold was pure...

Guru Ji told .....Pandit ji..this is the answer of your question regarding Khalsa....Pandit got confused and requested Guru Ji to elaborate......

Then Guru Ji said that I don't want somebody will blame my Khalsa and say that he is not pure....He/sje can look upon himself / herself and find out that ....Whether he /she is really pure ...Khalis (Pure)...like here goldsmith was required to chek the purity of gold....My Khalsa...doesn't need anybody to check him/her and prove his/her purity..............if my Khalsa is pure ...this rehat is his/ her Kasvati and he/she can check himself/herself.........

I heard this saakhi long time back in Katha.......from Gurdwara Dukh Niwaran Sahib , Ludhiana

Bhul Chuk Maaf............

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh........

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tejwant Singh Ji...

Thanks for encouraging me to find out this in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...I will try my best...with Guru's Grace......Before being Khalsa creation...Charan Pahul was a tradition where Guru Ji keep thumb of feet in water and Sikhs drink that...well I heard it in Katha veechar...of Suraj Prakash...Ithihass Guru Nanak Dev Ji...live from Gurdwara Dukh Niwaran Sahib, Ludhiana...Uploaded the live recordings at Sikhitube.com but presently that site is down...its down since last one week...but a concerned person emailed me that whenever that site will up..he will email me....... Once that up..will provide the Ithihaas links here....... till then let me find out a support from SGGS Ji.......I am just a beginner and as you are Waheguru Seeker.....I am far behind you in line...I will try my best Veer Ji...

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.........

Adskhalsa ji,

Guru Fateh.

1.Please share with us what kind of Sikh tradition and based on what Gurmat principles the ritual of Charan Pahul was practiced?

2.Why would our Gurus insert their big toe in the water and make people drink it when they did not even write their own names while writing Gurbani which is in SGGS?
They only gave themselves mere numbers?

3.What would the water become by inserting one's toe and make people drink it?

4.Initiation in what?

5.If this initiation was the only way to become Sikhs, then how about those who did not take it?

6.Was there anything tangible, like a janeiu kind of necklace, a bracelet etc etc given to those who were initiated like that as a proof that they had taken Charan Pahul and hence had become Sikhs?

7. Does this initiation contradict or compliment the concept of 4 doors of Harmandir Sahib?

Your responses based on Gurmat values would be highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Adskhalsa ji,

Guru Fateh.

1.Please share with us what kind of Sikh tradition and based on what Gurmat principles the ritual of Charan Pahul was practiced?

2.Why would our Gurus insert their big toe in the water and make people drink it when they did not even write their own names while writing Gurbani which is in SGGS?
They only gave themselves mere numbers?

3.What would the water become by inserting one's toe and make people drink it?

4.Initiation in what?

5.If this initiation was the only way to become Sikhs, then how about those who did not take it?

6.Was there anything tangible, like a janeiu kind of necklace, a bracelet etc etc given to those who were initiated like that as a proof that they had taken Charan Pahul and hence had become Sikhs?

7. Does this initiation contradict or compliment the concept of 4 doors of Harmandir Sahib?

Your responses based on Gurmat values would be highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh Ji...

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Wehguru Ji Ki Fateh..

Good questions...but did Panj Pyare asked Guru Ji...why you need head ? if somebody will say that flower contains frangnence...and if I will say show me...then other person will say the you can not see it...but can feel it....... there are many incidents where there are no question...but only love and feelings towards Guru......

.Please share with us what kind of Sikh tradition and based on what Gurmat principles the ritual of Charan Pahul was practiced?

I really don't know these rituals because I haven't saw that..I just heard that...and even Khalsa creation by Khanda Baata Pahul ... I haven't seen this with these eyes...I just believe it...because if questionable, a fool like me will say that prove that he is my father...then science will say that here is DNA test......a fool like me will reply that I don't believe in DNA test.....ok that's not really a supportive answer..another way to explain it is......let suppose one will say to his father that prove that you are a son of my Grandfather, who died many years ago......... son can only believe what ever is said...Love Guru and you will find all the answers...you have to believe ....as per my opinion, which may be wrong, .........Guru ji would not have written that I gave charan pahul like this to so many people...... Its own belief.....

someday a very close relative of mine asked me to prove that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is original..have u saw Guru ji writing it....reciting baani .........now what a fool and ignorant person like me will answer to this question...........in Guru Ghar ...there is no place for questions......Tark Vitark......but love and belief......I say that just believe and love Guru...he will give you all the answers which are coming again and again in mind........

have you ever thought of how Guru Nanak Ji traveled so long to Sri Lanka...to Bagdaad...howz that possible...an ignorant person like me will say that ..that not possible...I don't believe.........where is the prof in SGGS where it specified that Guru Ji used so and so means of transport to travel........

Why would our Gurus insert their big toe in the water and make people drink it when they did not even write their own names while writing Gurbani which is in SGGS?
They only gave themselves mere numbers?

I learned this from Katha veechar, but what ever knowledge Guru gave me ..let me try to justify it.........

If one day I will say that I am god...many will stand and say that when you can say that you are god ...then even I am god......I will say that i can do it...many will say the same thing...now Why Guru Ji never told himself as God....? answer lies in earlier lines...

Bhagats wrote in Gurbani that 'Gur Parmeshar Eko Jaan".....
If you believe than I will say that Brahmgayni is also God....but even then Baba Budda Ji...Baba Deep Singh Ji...never said that they are God...

"Brahmgyani Ko Khoje Maheshar....Barhmgyani Aap Parmeshar" (Sukmani Sahib Ji)

Now Guru Angad Dev Ji once said that Baba Budda Ji is my roop, but is never written in Gurbani...it doesn't mean that we will not believe...because if Guru Ji started writing this..then SGGS would have been like Ramayan....with saakhis and stories... Where in Gurbani it is written that mugal said that Guru Gobind Singh is Snake and Chote Sahibjadey are Sapole (son of Snake).?....

Then Guru Ji said that we are snake...we protect the right and bite the wrong....we are a Pearl (mani) for good and poison for bad......thats why we sikhs are always said to be Bhajangi ( Snake)..you might have heard this in many Gurdwara's..when new baby born..we say in Ardaas that Guru Ji Blessed this couple with Bhajangi Singh...........

its not written in SGGS..it doesn't mean that we don't believe that its true.... Tark Vitark are like mixing milk with water...you can continue to add water in milk ..Kacchi Lassi is going to increase in quantity ...but nothing comes out of that.............

What would the water become by inserting one's toe and make people drink it

You answer lies in my question...What a water becomes by reciting 5 baanis, in presence of Guru Ji and Panj Pyare...with Khanda and Patashe in Khanda Baata...with all five have hands and eyes in water.......?

Initiation in Sikhi... an American girl did Amrit chak in 2008 with me in presence of Guru Ji...and changed her name to Mehar Kaur.......for everybody there is only one way...Amrit Chak...Khande Baatey Di Pahul... either somebody from other religion has to assume Sikhi aur even a person born in Sikh family has to get Sikhi....this is a admission to class..it does not gurantee that you will pass..but it gurantee that if you follow somerules...you will pass...but how can one pass without taking admission in class.?...

If this initiation was the only way to become Sikhs, then how about those who did not take it?

Answer to your question is supported by earlier lines and by this...

“Rehat Bina Neh Sikh Kahavey…Rehat Bina Dar Chottan Khawey” , “Rehni Rahey Soyi Sikh Mera…O Sahib ..Main Uska Chera”………..and what is first step of Rehat… “Pratham Rehat Eh Jaan ..Khande Ki Pahul Chake”. in turn, which I understood, it means that....Without Amrit Chak..a person is not a Sikh……..

Was there anything tangible, like a janeiu kind of necklace, a bracelet etc etc given to those who were initiated like that as a proof that they had taken Charan Pahul and hence had become Sikhs?

There is nothing like that...its just own conscious that ...have I took charan pahul or not...its same way ...like own conscious tells us whether we are doing anything right or wrong.....if we are doing something wrong...my conscious will tell me once, second time..third time..but if I continue to do it...my conscious will get weak and will stop saying anything...because I always pressed it...without listening to it and without giving it food of Baani...Guru Tek (support).... (this is not related to your question but related to how to keep our conscious live..just added what I learned with grace of Guru Ji)

Does this initiation contradict or compliment the concept of 4 doors of Harmandir Sahib?

There is no contradiction, because we can not say that we follow Guru Nanak and not Guru Gobind Singh Ji.... That was done by Guru Ji earlier...but whole concept of Sikhism is a stream...it took 10 Deh (bodily) roop Guru Nanak Ji to establish whole Sikhism...and at end gave us the way to do it by Panj Payre...I will not deny boarding Aeroplane and say that no age old people used to walk so I will also walk to US from India....Sikhism is a stream/ river...and it takes way ..path for a river to get complete by merging into ocean....Started from somewhere ...and ended at somewhere..without loosing identity on the way........Guru Gobind Singh Ji and SGGS is Guru Nanak Ji itself...and when he later on gave us Panj Payra system to follow for Amrit Chak..then why I will continue to do it in old way..that should not be continued..only Guru Gobind Singh Ji's..Panj Pyara System is only way to get Khanda Baata Pahul.....

God created us and said that ..my loving son...i will make growth in you and you have to follow accordingly...and if a fool and Idiot like me will say that no...i want to wear some old clothes which I used to wear when I was new born...then you can imagine what you and other will say....

Above writings are a mix of thinking, knowledge gained through listening to Gurbani, and Katha Veechar....

I know that I may be wrong at many places, because other that Guru ...no body is perfect... and comments are welcome.and please guide me wherever I am wrong..I am interested in learning more and more of Guru Ji's teachings...

Please forgive me for any mistakes...

Sangat Bakshanhaar hai...Daas Bhulanhaar hai............

ek nimana daas samajh ke baksh dena.........ehi koshish hai ki thuvade saareyan naal reh ke kuch sikh saqaan.......

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.........

 

[Inder singh]

Sikh becomes a sikh after he/she gets Gurmantra. In guru period there was a procedure of charan amrit and that was substituted by Khande bate da amrit by Guru Gobind singh ji.

Bhai Gurdas ji writesਚਰਨ ਧੋਇ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਚਰਣਾਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਿਖਾਂ ਪੀਲਾਇਆ ।
charan dhoi raharaasi kari charanaamritu sikhaan peelaaiaa|
He washed His feet, eulogised God and got his Disciples drink the ambrosia of his feet.

Vaar 1 pauri 23

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Sikh becomes a sikh after he/she gets Gurmantra. In guru period there was a procedure of charan amrit and that was substituted by Khande bate da amrit by Guru Gobind singh ji.

Bhai Gurdas ji writesਚਰਨ ਧੋਇ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਚਰਣਾਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਿਖਾਂ ਪੀਲਾਇਆ ।
charan dhoi raharaasi kari charanaamritu sikhaan peelaaiaa|
He washed His feet, eulogised God and got his Disciples drink the ambrosia of his feet.

Vaar 1 pauri 23

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa ..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh...

Thanks for support..

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Sikh becomes a sikh after he/she gets Gurmantra. In guru period there was a procedure of charan amrit and that was substituted by Khande bate da amrit by Guru Gobind singh ji.

Bhai Gurdas ji writesਚਰਨ ਧੋਇ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਚਰਣਾਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਿਖਾਂ ਪੀਲਾਇਆ ।
charan dhoi raharaasi kari charanaamritu sikhaan peelaaiaa|
He washed His feet, eulogised God and got his Disciples drink the ambrosia of his feet.

Vaar 1 pauri 23

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Let's talk about the facts. Bhai Gurdas was a great poet. Nothing else. If his poetry were at the level of the Bhagats and others who had their writings added to SGGS, then our Gurus would have done so. The fact remains that they did not. So let's try to respect our Gurus' decision rather than undermining it which is again dispespect towards them.

Charan pahul is degrading and anti Gurmat, unless you have the evidence unlike the one you tried to peddle for Dasam Granth.

So what you wrote above does not make Gurmat sense as many of your other assertions which is not surprising.

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

ਸੁਣੀ ਪੁਕਾਰਿ ਦਾਤਾਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਗ ਮਾਹਿ ਪਠਾਇਆ ।
sunee pukaari daataar prabhu guru naanak jag maahi patdaaiaa|
The benefactor Lord listened to the cries (of humanity) and sent Guru Nanak to this world.


ਚਰਨ ਧੋਇ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਚਰਣਾਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਿਖਾਂ ਪੀਲਾਇਆ ।
charan dhoi raharaasi kari charanaamritu sikhaan peelaaiaa|
He washed His feet, eulogised God and got his Disciples drink the ambrosia of his feet.


ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਇਕੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ।
paarabrahamu pooran brahamu kalijugi andari iku dikhaaiaa|
He preached in this darkage (kaliyug) that, saragun (Brahm) and nirgun (Parbrahm) are the same and identical.


ਚਾਰੇ ਪੈਰ ਧਰਮ ਦੇ ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨਿ ਇਕੁ ਵਰਨੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ।
chaaray pair dharam day chaari varani iku varanu karaaiaa|
Dharma was now established on its four feet and all the four castes (through fraternal feeling) were converted into one caste (of humanity).


ਰਾਣਾ ਰੰਕੁ ਬਰਾਬਰੀ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਵਣਾ ਜਗਿ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ।
raanaa ranku baraabaree pairee paavanaa jagi varataaiaa|
Equating the poor with the prince, he spread the etiquette of humbly touching the feet.


ਉਲਟਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਪਿਰੰਮ ਦਾ ਪੈਰਾ ਉਪਰਿ ਸੀਸੁ ਨਿਵਾਇਆ ।
ulataa khaylu piranm daa pairaa upari seesu nivaaiaa|
Inverse is the game of the beloved; he got the egotist high heads bowed to feet.


ਕਲਿਜੁਗੁ ਬਾਬੇ ਤਾਰਿਆ ਸਤਿਨਾਮੁ ਪੜ੍ਹਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ।
kalijugu baabay taariaa satinaamu parhhi mantr sunaaiaa|
Baba Nanak rescued this dark age (kaliyug) and recited ‘satinam’ mantr for one and all.


ਕਲਿ ਤਾਰਣਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਇਆ ॥੨੩॥
kali taarani guru naanaku aaiaa ॥23॥
Guru Nanak came to redeem the kaliyug.

Khalsa ji

Here is the entire pauree. What is there in this pauree that makes one think that "drink the ambrosia of his feet" means the water in which the Guru washed his feet? And in reading the entire pauree, could there not be a larger and more spiritual lesson that goes beyond the literal sense of water for washing feet, and water for amrit?

Does that sound like Guru Nanak? Would he do that?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa ..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh...

Thanks for support from Gurbani......

Adskhalsa ji,

Guru Fateh,

I am sorry to disappoint you but the fact remains that only Gurbani in SGGS is called GURBANI which does not include Bhai Gurdas' poetry. So let's not degrade SGGS by calling his poetry Gurbani.

Tejwant Singh

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Adskhalsa ji,

Guru Fateh,

I am sorry to disappoint you but the fact remains that only Gurbani in SGGS is called GURBANI which does not include Bhai Gurdas' poetry. So let's not degrade SGGS by calling his poetry Gurbani.

Tejwant Singh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh....

Sorry I don't know about that..i edited the post............

Waheguru maaf kare...........

 

[Inder singh]

The fact remains that Bhai gurdas ji's bani is accepted by khalsa panth to be read per sikh rehat maryada.

Message of Guru granth sahib relates to soul. Guru granth sahib will not have sikh history in it.

If some do not accept sikh rehat maryada then i have nothing to discuss further with such fellows.

 

[Inder singh]

Here is the entire pauree. What is there in this pauree that makes one think that "drink the ambrosia of his feet" means the water in which the Guru washed his feet? And in reading the entire pauree, could there not be a larger and more spiritual lesson that goes beyond the literal sense of water for washing feet, and water for Amrit

Can you elaborate your post further. What is your conclusion regarding charan pahul per this pauri?

You quote sikh history sometimes. Did you not read in that chjaran amrit. Did you not read about Gurmantra?
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/amrit/

 

[spnadmin]

Forgive me for being short and not lengthy because the pauree was added with questions to be moderation questions so as to focus this part of the conversation, and to further discussion of the idea of "feet" of the Guru, Not as an expression of opinion one way or the other.

So here is another thought question. When Guru Nanak prays that the Satgur plant his feet in his heart -- does he mean that in a literal sense? If you wish I can post a shabad with this thought.

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh...........

I understand that ..Sikh contains everything...and Sikh is smpooran only when he follows everything...not just parts....... and Amrit is a part of that....there are many meanings of Amrit in Gurbani...and it is in one of the katha in the given links of Zshare earlier........