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Oct 11, 2006
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Patiala,Punjab.
Anna Hazare is an uneducated, stubborn, megalomaniac, narcissist man full of self-importance.Just check the no. of times he uses the word "I" in his speeches and the derogatory language he uses for his adversaries.Is this the Gandhian way.:angryyoungsingh:
And on top of that he is a "katarh" Hindu, with RSS and other fundamentalists,like Ram Dev supporting him.
 

kds1980

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Anna Hazare is an uneducated, stubborn, megalomaniac, narcissist man full of self-importance.Just check the no. of times he uses the word "I" in his speeches and the derogatory language he uses for his adversaries.Is this the Gandhian way.:angryyoungsingh:
And on top of that he is a "katarh" Hindu, with RSS and other fundamentalists,like Ram Dev supporting him.

What about Arvind Kejarival, Prashant,Bhushan and Kiran bedi? Are they also Communal? They all are part of his team and working as hands of Anna


Kiran Bedi who is considered a woman icon ,i never knew that she is a communal lady
 
Oct 11, 2006
234
425
Patiala,Punjab.
What about Arvind Kejarival, shanti,Bhushan and Kiran bedi? Are they also Communal? They all are part of his team and working as hands of Anna

Shanti Bhushan a former lawyer who represented Afsal Guru ?

Kiran Bedi who is considered a woman icon ,i never knew that she is a communal lady

Do you really believe it when Kiran Bedi says that Anna is India and India is Anna. I think she has really gone bonkers.
Why don"t these self-appointed, so-called civil society people, all go on a fast unto death? Why use Anna as fodder and put him is such a pitiable situation from which it is almost impossible to escape.
And would we allow this kind of black-mail in our own families?
What happens if a new group of people,even more qualified than this group,comes forward and claims to be the real Civil Society. There will be no end to this Tamasha.
Why not just get rid of parliament and scrap the constitution and let the likes of Anna Hazare run the country.
 

kds1980

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Do you really believe it when Kiran Bedi says that Anna is India and India is Anna. I think she has really gone bonkers.
Why don"t these self-appointed, so-called civil society people, all go on a fast unto death? Why use Anna as fodder and put him is such a pitiable situation from which it is almost impossible to escape.
And would we allow this kind of black-mail in our own families?
What happens if a new group of people,even more qualified than this group,comes forward and claims to be the real Civil Society. There will be no end to this Tamasha.
Why not just get rid of parliament and scrap the constitution and let the likes of Anna Hazare run the country.


The campaign is against corruption and not accepting Anna ,these type of slogans are raised in campaigns.The question is why No political party is supporting them,Even BJP is not coming out in open support Why?
BTW The government committe on Lokpal have members like Lalu,Amar singh,Manish tiwari etc What a joke its like asking murderers to draft a punishment for murder
 

kds1980

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Delhi Police Gear Up To Take Anna To Hospital

On Day 9 of social activist Anna Hazare's fast against corruption, security has been stepped up at Ramlila Maidan.

Though officially the Delhi Police maintained that the move was to 'ensure the safety of Hazare and his supporters', rediff.com has learnt that the law enforcement agency fears a law and order situation that may arise if and when Hazare is shifted to the hospital

"Since Anna Hazare has refused to be hospitalised, we might be forced to take him to a hospital to save his life. His personal team of doctors themselves have said that his health is deteriorating. We cannot allow him to die. That is against the law. We are awaiting orders from the central government (read the Home Ministry, which oversees the Delhi police). We just might need to take him to a hospital to save his life," a senior police official said.

According to sources, a survey was conducted by the Delhi Police to determine the number of Anna Hazare supporters, who spend the night at Ramlila Maidan.

"We found that on the weekend, there were about 1,200-1,500 supporters on the ground at night. On Tuesday night, there were just about 900 of them. With these figures in mind, the top brass of Delhi police have instructed the Deputy Commissioners of police of two districts to post a certain number of policemen from every police station in their respective districts at Ramlila Grounds. These policemen will be riot-ready control forces," a senior police official at Kamla Market police station said. Ramlila Grounds come under the jurisdiction of this police station.

Security has been increased inside Ramlila Ground, especially the stage area. Instead of the 10-15 constables, police have posted close to 50 men around the stage.

Security has also been stepped up outside the venue with police brining in Rapid Action Force at the venue. VAJRA riot control vehicles also have been stationed around the venue.

Sources said that they will not arrest Anna Hazare, but might need to take him to a hospital in lieu of his health.

"If we do get orders to take Anna Hazare to the hospital, we will first approach his team and inform them about this. We will request them to calm his supporters and cooperate with us. If, however, they are unwilling, we might need to forcefully take Anna to the hospital to save his life. Despite his doctors' advice, he has refused to take any fluids, which might prove fatal for him," another officer said.

A police inspector said that the policemen have been briefed to abstain from using any kind of force at the protestors.

"IPS officers have been instructed to personally conduct the operation if orders come in. They will be responsible to calm down the supporters and tell that Anna Hazare needs to be taken to the hospital to save his life," the inspector said.

"Deputy and Additional commissioners of police are monitoring the situation personally. The commissioner is also being briefed continuously about the developments. Let us hope nothing untoward happens. Anna Hazare's supporters need to realise that if he is being taken to the hospital, it is to save his own life," the inspector added.

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-sh...okpal-bill-delhi-police-hospital/20110824.htm
 

kds1980

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Differences between Govt and Anna Hazare version Lok Pal Bill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Lokpal_Bill


Detailed

The following table details differences between the Government and activist backed versions<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-0" class="reference">[17]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-ToIDiff_17-0" class="reference">[18]</sup>.<sup id="cite_ref-TargetNGO_18-0" class="reference">[19]</sup>
<table class="wikitable"> <tbody><tr> <th scope="col" width="150">Issue</th> <th scope="col" width="400">The Jan Lokpal Bill <sup id="cite_ref-JanLokpalPDF_2-1" class="reference">[3]</sup></th> <th scope="col" width="400">Government's Lokpal Bill <sup id="cite_ref-LokpalPDF_0-1" class="reference">[1]</sup></th> </tr> <tr> <th>Prime Minister</th> <td>Can be investigated with permission of seven member Lokpal bench.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-1" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> <td>PM can be investigated by Lokpal after she/he vacates office.<sup id="cite_ref-19" class="reference">[20]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>Judiciary</th> <td>Can be investigated, though high level members may be investigated only with permission of a seven member Lokpal bench.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-2" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> <td>Judiciary is exempt and will be covered by a separate "judicial accountability bill".<sup id="cite_ref-ToIDiff_17-1" class="reference">[18]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>Conduct of MPs</th> <td>Can be investigated with permission of seven member Lokpal bench.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-3" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> <td>Can be investigated, but their conduct within Parliament, such as voting, cannot be investigated.<sup id="cite_ref-ToIDiff_17-2" class="reference">[18]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>Lower bureaucracy</th> <td>All public servants would be included.<sup id="cite_ref-ToIDiff_17-3" class="reference">[18]</sup></td> <td>Only senior officers (Group A) will be covered.<sup id="cite_ref-ToIDiff_17-4" class="reference">[18]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>Anti-corruption wing of the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI)</th> <td>The Anti-corruption wing of the CBI will be merged into the Lokpal.<sup id="cite_ref-ToIDiff_17-5" class="reference">[18]</sup></td> <td>The Anti-corruption wing of the CBI not be merged into the Lokpal.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-4" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>Removal of Lokpal members and Chair</th> <td>Any person can bring a complaint to the Supreme Court, who can then recommend removal of any member to the President.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-5" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> <td>Any "aggrieved party" can raise a complaint to the President, who will refer the matter to the CJI.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-6" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>Removal of Lokpal staff and officers</th> <td>Complaints against Lokpal staff will be handled by independent boards set-up in each state, composed of retired bureaucrats, judges, and civil society members.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-7" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> <td>Lokpal will conduct inquiries into its own behavior.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-8" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>Lokayukta</th> <td>Lokakyukta and other local/state anti-corruption agency would remain in place.<sup id="cite_ref-ToIDiff_17-6" class="reference">[18]</sup></td> <td>All state anti-corruption agencies would be closed and responsibilities taken over by centralized Lokpal.<sup id="cite_ref-ToIDiff_17-7" class="reference">[18]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>Whistleblower protection</th> <td>Whistleblowers are protected by Lokpal.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-9" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> <td>No protection granted to whistleblowers by Lokpal.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-10" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>Punishment for corruption</th> <td>Lokpal can either directly impose penalties, or refer the matter to the courts. Penalties can include removal from office, imprisonment, and recovery of assets from those who benefited from the corruption.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-11" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> <td>Lokpal can only refer matters to the courts, not take any direct punitive actions. Penalties remain equivalent to those in current law.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-12" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>Investigatory powers</th> <td>Lokpal can obtain wiretaps ( to make a connection to a telegraph or telephone wire in order to obtain information secretly), issue rogatory letters, and recruit investigating officers. Cannot issue contempt orders.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-13" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> <td>Lokpal can issue contempt orders, and has the ability to punish those in contempt. No authority to obtain wiretaps, issue rogatory letters, or recruit investigating officers.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-14" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>False, frivolous and vexatious complaints</th> <td>Lokpal can issue fines for frivolous complaints (including frivolous complaints against Lokpal itself), with a maximum penalty of 1 lakh.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-15" class="reference">[17]</sup>.</td> <td>Court system will handle matters of frivolous complaints. Courts can issue fines of Rs25,000 to 2 lakh.<sup id="cite_ref-HinduDiff_16-16" class="reference">[17]</sup></td> </tr> <tr> <th>NGOs</th> <td>NGOs not within the scope due to their role in exposing corruption.<sup id="cite_ref-TargetNGO_18-1" class="reference">[19]</sup></td> <td>NGOs are within the scope and can be investigated.


</td></tr></tbody></table>
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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IF one is made a FOOL once...its mistake..twice..still a mistake..IF 3 times..then oen REALLY is a FOOL.
This Annah hazarreh has RSS written ALL OVER HIM so clearly...SIKHS are real fools if they get cheated by such people after the Nehrus and the Gandhis of 60 years ago..means SIKHS havent learnt ANYTHING yet.
The Anti-Corruption thingys is just a "vehicle"...those RIDING it in style are those who wnat more Mosques broken down..more Blue Star Operations..more Kashmirs, More Assams and more Bhagwa bombs exploding in mosques and muslims getting arrested for them.. OF Course BJP is not coming out "openly"...it did in the Ramdev DEBACLE..and see what happeend...the so called Yoga Master Gurudev whatever fled in womans clothing...the only saving grace of this Annah is he can "remain hungry" as he said..and NOT FAINT like Ramdev after a few hours of fasting...Let a SIKH/MUSLIM try this stunt..either he will be left to DIE like PHERUMAN was..or arrested as a Terrorist security threat and finished off.
 

spnadmin

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This Annah hazarreh has RSS written ALL OVER HIM so clearly.

This is also a concern expressed by Arundhati Roy. She is not a Sikh, but a member of the Hindu majority. I post this only I because she has rather systematically evaluated all the snags in the idea that India is Anna and Anna is India, without taking the side of the GOI. She currently is facing charges of sedition in her criticism of government policies in Kashmir. So, she is not a toadie for the government. Probably the biggest criticism against her is that she provides no solutions in her article for fighting corruption. Thought this would offer another layer to thoughts in this thread. Thanks.


I'd Rather not be Ghandi

ARUNDHATI ROY

While his means maybe Gandhian, his demands are certainly not.

If what we're watching on TV is indeed a revolution, then it has to be one of the more embarrassing and unintelligible ones of recent times. For now, whatever questions you may have about the Jan Lokpal Bill, here are the answers you're likely to get: tick the box — (a) Vande Mataram (b) Bharat Mata ki Jai (c) India is Anna, Anna is India (d) Jai Hind.

For completely different reasons, and in completely different ways, you could say that the Maoists and the Jan Lokpal Bill have one thing in common — they both seek the overthrow of the Indian State. One working from the bottom up, by means of an armed struggle, waged by a largely adivasi army, made up of the poorest of the poor. The other, from the top down, by means of a bloodless Gandhian coup, led by a freshly minted saint, and an army of largely urban, and certainly better off people. (In this one, the Government collaborates by doing everything it possibly can to overthrow itself.)

In April 2011, a few days into Anna Hazare's first “fast unto death,” searching for some way of distracting attention from the massive corruption scams which had battered its credibility, the Government invited Team Anna, the brand name chosen by this “civil society” group, to be part of a joint drafting committee for a new anti-corruption law. A few months down the line it abandoned that effort and tabled its own bill in Parliament, a bill so flawed that it was impossible to take seriously.

Then, on August 16th, the morning of his second “fast unto death,” before he had begun his fast or committed any legal offence, Anna Hazare was arrested and jailed. The struggle for the implementation of the Jan Lokpal Bill now coalesced into a struggle for the right to protest, the struggle for democracy itself. Within hours of this ‘Second Freedom Struggle,' Anna was released. Cannily, he refused to leave prison, but remained in Tihar jail as an honoured guest, where he began a fast, demanding the right to fast in a public place. For three days, while crowds and television vans gathered outside, members of Team Anna whizzed in and out of the high security prison, carrying out his video messages, to be broadcast on national TV on all channels. (Which other person would be granted this luxury?) Meanwhile 250 employees of the Municipal Commission of Delhi, 15 trucks, and six earth movers worked around the clock to ready the slushy Ramlila grounds for the grand weekend spectacle. Now, waited upon hand and foot, watched over by chanting crowds and crane-mounted cameras, attended to by India's most expensive doctors, the third phase of Anna's fast to the death has begun. “From Kashmir to Kanyakumari, India is One,” the TV anchors tell us.

While his means may be Gandhian, Anna Hazare's demands are certainly not. Contrary to Gandhiji's ideas about the decentralisation of power, the Jan Lokpal Bill is a draconian, anti-corruption law, in which a panel of carefully chosen people will administer a giant bureaucracy, with thousands of employees, with the power to police everybody from the Prime Minister, the judiciary, members of Parliament, and all of the bureaucracy, down to the lowest government official. The Lokpal will have the powers of investigation, surveillance, and prosecution. Except for the fact that it won't have its own prisons, it will function as an independent administration, meant to counter the bloated, unaccountable, corrupt one that we already have. Two oligarchies, instead of just one.

Whether it works or not depends on how we view corruption. Is corruption just a matter of legality, of financial irregularity and bribery, or is it the currency of a social transaction in an egregiously unequal society, in which power continues to be concentrated in the hands of a smaller and smaller minority? Imagine, for example, a city of shopping malls, on whose streets hawking has been banned. A hawker pays the local beat cop and the man from the municipality a small bribe to break the law and sell her wares to those who cannot afford the prices in the malls. Is that such a terrible thing? In future will she have to pay the Lokpal representative too? Does the solution to the problems faced by ordinary people lie in addressing the structural inequality, or in creating yet another power structure that people will have to defer to?

Meanwhile the props and the choreography, the aggressive nationalism and flag waving of Anna's Revolution are all borrowed, from the anti-reservation protests, the world-cup victory parade, and the celebration of the nuclear tests. They signal to us that if we do not support The Fast, we are not ‘true Indians.' The 24-hour channels have decided that there is no other news in the country worth reporting.

‘The Fast' of course doesn't mean Irom Sharmila's fast that has lasted for more than ten years (she's being force fed now) against the AFSPA, which allows soldiers in Manipur to kill merely on suspicion. It does not mean the relay hunger fast that is going on right now by ten thousand villagers in Koodankulam protesting against the nuclear power plant. ‘The People' does not mean the Manipuris who support Irom Sharmila's fast. Nor does it mean the thousands who are facing down armed policemen and mining mafias in Jagatsinghpur, or Kalinganagar, or Niyamgiri, or Bastar, or Jaitapur. Nor do we mean the victims of the Bhopal gas leak, or the people displaced by dams in the Narmada Valley. Nor do we mean the farmers in NOIDA, or Pune or Haryana or elsewhere in the country, resisting the takeover of the land.

‘The People' only means the audience that has gathered to watch the spectacle of a 74-year-old man threatening to starve himself to death if his Jan Lokpal Bill is not tabled and passed by Parliament. ‘The People' are the tens of thousands who have been miraculously multiplied into millions by our TV channels, like Christ multiplied the fishes and loaves to feed the hungry. “A billion voices have spoken,” we're told. “India is Anna.”

Who is he really, this new saint, this Voice of the People? Oddly enough we've heard him say nothing about things of urgent concern. Nothing about the farmer's suicides in his neighbourhood, or about Operation Green Hunt further away. Nothing about Singur, Nandigram, Lalgarh, nothing about Posco, about farmer's agitations or the blight of SEZs. He doesn't seem to have a view about the Government's plans to deploy the Indian Army in the forests of Central India.

He does however support Raj Thackeray's Marathi Manoos xenophobia and has praised the ‘development model' of Gujarat's Chief Minister who oversaw the 2002 pogrom against Muslims. (Anna withdrew that statement after a public outcry, but presumably not his admiration.)

Despite the din, sober journalists have gone about doing what journalists do. We now have the back-story about Anna's old relationship with the RSS. We have heard from Mukul Sharma who has studied Anna's village community in Ralegan Siddhi, where there have been no Gram Panchayat or Co-operative society elections in the last 25 years. We know about Anna's attitude to ‘harijans': “It was Mahatma Gandhi's vision that every village should have one chamar, one sunar, one kumhar and so on. They should all do their work according to their role and occupation, and in this way, a village will be self-dependant. This is what we are practicing in Ralegan Siddhi.” Is it surprising that members of Team Anna have also been associated with Youth for Equality, the anti-reservation (pro-“merit”) movement? The campaign is being handled by people who run a clutch of generously funded NGOs whose donors include Coca-Cola and the Lehman Brothers. Kabir, run by Arvind Kejriwal and Manish Sisodia, key figures in Team Anna, has received $400,000 from the Ford Foundation in the last three years. Among contributors to the India Against Corruption campaign there are Indian companies and foundations that own aluminum plants, build ports and SEZs, and run Real Estate businesses and are closely connected to politicians who run financial empires that run into thousands of crores of rupees. Some of them are currently being investigated for corruption and other crimes. Why are they all so enthusiastic?

Remember the campaign for the Jan Lokpal Bill gathered steam around the same time as embarrassing revelations by Wikileaks and a series of scams, including the 2G spectrum scam, broke, in which major corporations, senior journalists, and government ministers and politicians from the Congress as well as the BJP seem to have colluded in various ways as hundreds of thousands of crores of rupees were being siphoned off from the public exchequer. For the first time in years, journalist-lobbyists were disgraced and it seemed as if some major Captains of Corporate India could actually end up in prison. Perfect timing for a people's anti-corruption agitation. Or was it?

At a time when the State is withdrawing from its traditional duties and Corporations and NGOs are taking over government functions (water supply, electricity, transport, telecommunication, mining, health, education); at a time when the terrifying power and reach of the corporate owned media is trying to control the public imagination, one would think that these institutions — the corporations, the media, and NGOs — would be included in the jurisdiction of a Lokpal bill. Instead, the proposed bill leaves them out completely.

Now, by shouting louder than everyone else, by pushing a campaign that is hammering away at the theme of evil politicians and government corruption, they have very cleverly let themselves off the hook. Worse, by demonising only the Government they have built themselves a pulpit from which to call for the further withdrawal of the State from the public sphere and for a second round of reforms — more privatisation, more access to public infrastructure and India's natural resources. It may not be long before Corporate Corruption is made legal and renamed a Lobbying Fee.

Will the 830 million people living on Rs.20 a day really benefit from the strengthening of a set of policies that is impoverishing them and driving this country to civil war?

This awful crisis has been forged out of the utter failure of India's representative democracy, in which the legislatures are made up of criminals and millionaire politicians who have ceased to represent its people. In which not a single democratic institution is accessible to ordinary people. Do not be fooled by the flag waving. We're watching India being carved up in war for suzerainty that is as deadly as any battle being waged by the warlords of Afghanistan, only with much, much more at stake.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article2379704.ece
 

kds1980

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IF one is made a FOOL once...its mistake..twice..still a mistake..IF 3 times..then oen REALLY is a FOOL.
This Annah hazarreh has RSS written ALL OVER HIM so clearly...SIKHS are real fools if they get cheated by such people after the Nehrus and the Gandhis of 60 years ago..means SIKHS havent learnt ANYTHING yet.
The Anti-Corruption thingys is just a "vehicle"...those RIDING it in style are those who wnat more Mosques broken down..more Blue Star Operations..more Kashmirs, More Assams and more Bhagwa bombs exploding in mosques and muslims getting arrested for them.. OF Course BJP is not coming out "openly"...it did in the Ramdev DEBACLE..and see what happeend...the so called Yoga Master Gurudev whatever fled in womans clothing...the only saving grace of this Annah is he can "remain hungry" as he said..and NOT FAINT like Ramdev after a few hours of fasting...Let a SIKH/MUSLIM try this stunt..either he will be left to DIE like PHERUMAN was..or arrested as a Terrorist security threat and finished off.

Gyani ji

This battle is between Anna and his team vs present congress Government
If Anna is RSS and movement is anti minority then the present Govt must be the saviour of Sikhs/muslims.BTW Anna's first 3 struggles were against BJP/shiv sena Govt
 

spnadmin

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Gyani ji

This battle is between Anna and his team vs present congress Government
If Anna is RSS and movement is anti minority then the present Govt must be the saviour of Sikhs/muslims.BTW Anna's first 3 struggles were against BJP/shiv sena Govt

False dichotomy kds1980 ji

There are more than 2 sides to this conflict. If one side is wrong that does not make any other side clearly right.
 

kds1980

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He does however support Raj Thackeray's Marathi Manoos xenophobia and has praised the ‘development model' of Gujarat's Chief Minister who oversaw the 2002 pogrom against Muslims. (Anna withdrew that statement after a public outcry, but presumably not his admiration.)

If someone praises Modi's work then he is communal and What about Rajiv's work ,the entire Icongress leaders including sikh leaders celebrate his birthday .Why no one blame a person communal who support rajiv gandhi

also Arundhati roy should ask herself ,does she have clean record? She herself was sitting behind Geelani who openly say's that asking a muslimto live in non muslim society is just like asking a fish to live without water.May be these type of persons are not communal and they really want to create trult secular Kashmir
 

kds1980

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False dichotomy kds1980 ji

There are more than 2 sides to this conflict. If one side is wrong that does not make any other side clearly right.

Of course there are many sides of a conflict .,but you have to take a stand which is good for you
Anyway Kiran bedi is working as left hand of Anna and we all know She has very clean record or She is also a hidden RSS agent?
 

spnadmin

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If someone praises Modi's work then he is communal and What about Rajiv's work ,the entire Icongress leaders including sikh leaders celebrate his birthday .Why no one blame a person communal who support rajiv gandhi

also Arundhati roy should ask herself ,does she have clean record? She herself was sitting behind Geelani who openly say's that asking a muslimto live in non muslim society is just like asking a fish to live without water.May be these type of persons are not communal and they really want to create trult secular Kashmir

Sorry! Argumentum ad hominem kds ji. And another logical fallacy.

Argumentum ad Hominem : the fallacy of attacking the character or circumstances of an individual who is advancing a statement or an argument instead of trying to disprove the truth of the statement or the soundness of the argument. Often the argument is characterized simply as a personal attack.
 

kds1980

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Sorry! Argumentum ad hominem kds ji. And another logical fallacy.

Argumentum ad Hominem : the fallacy of attacking the character or circumstances of an individual who is advancing a statement or an argument instead of trying to disprove the truth of the statement or the soundness of the argument. Often the argument is characterized simply as a personal attack.

Spnadmin ji

When She herself launched personal attack on Anna and his team then why her credentials can't be questioned? Her allegation that Anna is not treating Dalits well was personally refuted by Anna on stage and said that any body can go and see How in his village Dalits are treated.

Also here are words from Prashant Bhushan who knows Arundhati

You had been involved in many cases that were taken up by Maoists, Leftists and liberals -- issues that thinker and writer Arundhati Roy also supports. She came out openly in your favour when a CD against you was leaked. You have travelled a long way since last April. On Tuesday she wrote a column in The Hindu against the movement. She has reacted strongly against the idea of the Jan Lokpal bill that you are supporting. How do you take Roy's views?

I can understand where she is coming from. She has an instinctive fear of any movement, which is supported by the big media, by the middle-class and also supported by a section of the corporate world. She is expressing that.

She is swept away by that instinctive fear without really having the full appreciation of the people who are behind the movement. She knows me. But she doesn't know the other people. She doesn't know what is the essential spirit behind the movement. She doesn't know anything about Anna Hazare other than what she has read from here and there.

There is this section of Left-liberal intelligentsia which becomes fearful of too much flag-waving or Vande Mataram or Bharat Mata Ki Jai etc. Unfortunately, these slogans and flag-waving has been appropriated, to a large extent, by non-secular saffron organisations. What we are seeing today is the resurgence of patriotism and nationalism in this movement of the kind which we saw during the freedom struggle.

All kinds of people have got involved in it. There would be some people with saffron leanings also who have got involved in this movement.

But, the vast majority of people involved in the movement are not the people with saffron leanings or anything. Merely because the movement has some corporate support doesn't mean that it should be viewed with great suspicion or be discredited.

All corporates are not dishonest. Most corporates would like to do honest business. They are also victims of corruption. There are large numbers of corporations who are taking advantage of the climate that has been created.

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-sh...na-hazares-aide-prashant-bhushan/20110823.htm

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Anyway forget about all these things Just read the govt version of Lokpal and Anna version which I posted on SPN and honestly tell which you find more effective to tackle corruption?

The Govt bill is full of flaws may be Anna's bill is not perfect but still much better one.

The conspiracy theories are their and they will always remain.Also if I am not wrong John mcain praised the Anna movement and congress blamed that this movement is conspiracy of USA

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...9820_1_anna-hazare-largest-democracy-protests
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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Just more argumentum ad hominem imho on the part of the author of the article, Prashant Bushan.

p/s How would we go about questioning her credentials?
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
admin note: Some recent threads regarding the Lokpal Bill and Anna Hazare have been merged into this current thread. Other threads were combined with this thread by moving the individual posts into this thread. For this later group, mostly threads from a week ago, you will no longer see the thread in the directory. Please post all comments and articles regarding Anna Hazare in this thread only. Thank you.
 

kds1980

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Apr 3, 2005
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INDIA
Sikh Americans back Anna Hazare campaign

Prominent Sikh Americans have voiced support for social activist Anna Hazare's campaign against corruption. Rajwant Singh, chairman of the Sikh Council on Religion and Education, said: "Anna Hazare's

campaign has the capacity to create conditions for clean and ethical politics to survive
and thrive in India."


He also expressed confidence that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh would "find a way out as he has done on many other challenging issues facing India in the recent past".

"Corruption does to a country what termites do to the foundation of a house. For India to achieve its full potential, corruption needs to be replaced by a fair, open, and speedy method of governance at all levels," said Navneet Chugh of The Chugh Firm, a leading law firm.

Charnjit Singh Randhawa, chairman and CEO of Washington based Rockefeller Consulting Insight Capitalists, said: "Corruption is a cancer that has suffocated every honest person in India and it is our duty to bring clean way of life to the forefront."

Ken Bajaj, chairman and CEO of Systemsnet, also based in Washington, added: "We congratulate Anna Hazare for having the courage to lead this noble cause. Every Indian must see this as a task to convert world's largest democracy to achieve rightful place in the world."

India as a nation has an opportunity to transform at this critical juncture if all Indians fully engage themselves in changing situation rather than being mere spectators, is how Satinder Singh Rekhi, CEO of the Sacramento based RSystems, put it.

Darshan Singh Sehbi, faculty at the Wright State University School of Medicine Dayton, Ohio observed: "Anna is helping to focus everyone's attention on the real issues and in that sense it is moving the country one step closer to the final goal of becoming free of corruption."

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Sikh-Americans-back-Anna-Hazare-campaign/Article1-737308.aspx
 

kds1980

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Apr 3, 2005
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...lution-on-Lokpal-Bill/articleshow/9760064.cms


Anna Hazare wins, Parliament passes resolution on Lokpal Bill




NEW DELHI: Both Houses of Parliament on Saturday passed a resolution conveying the sense of the House on the Lokpal Bill, paving the way for Anna Hazare to break his fast.

On a motion moved by Pranab Mukherjee, Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha passed a resolution conveying the sense of the House on the Lokpal Bill.

After the passage of the resolution, Speaker Meira Kumar adjourned the Lok Sabha till Monday.

There was some confusion over whether the resolution was passed by a voice vote or not. Apparently, no voice vote took place.

"Thumping of the desk is akin to passing a motion by voice vote," Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar told Times Now.

After the passage of the Lokpal resolution in Lok Sabha, Rajya Sabha also passed the resolution.

Team Anna welcomes the passage of the Lokpal resolution, Kiran Bedi said.

Some of the important points of the Lokpal resolution passed by Parliament are:

*An effective Lokpal at the Centre and Lokayuktas in states be set up.

*Employees of centre and state governments to be brought under purview of Lokpal and Lokayuktas respectively.

*All government departments to have citizen's charter with timeline.

With a copy of Lokpal resolution and a letter from PM Manmohan Singh, Union minister Vilasrao Deshmukh would now go to Ramlila Maidan to meet Anna Hazare.

Earlier, the team Anna said they have received a communication from the government that a resolution carrying their demands on Lokpal Bill will be put to a voice vote, a move which they termed as a "very happy" development.

Fresh trouble emerged this afternoon after government decided only to convey sense of House to Team Anna and not put the resolution for voting, the activists hardened their position saying it was "betrayal" and only a resolution which will be put to vote will be acceptable.

This forced the government to change its stand. The activist's camp said they have received the communication from the government about its decision to put the resolution to voice vote.

The 74-year-old Gandhian has been on fast for the last 12 days, demanding the passage of the Jan Lokpal Bill by Parliament.
 

kds1980

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Apr 3, 2005
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INDIA
NEW DELHI: Anna Hazare ended his 12-day fast on Sunday morning before thousands of cheering supporters at Ramlila Maidan.

The 74-year-old Gandhian accepted a glass of tender coconut water mixed with honey from a Dalit and a Muslim girl -- Simran and Ikrah -- at 10:20 am on the dais at the Ramlila Ground ending over 288 hours of fast that began on August 16.

After a brief address, Hazare was driven straight to Medanta Medicity run by eminent cardiologist Dr Naresh Trehan who was attending to him along with his team during his entire period of fast. Hazare will stay in the hospital for two-three days.

"I have only suspended my agitation. I will not rest until all the changes that I look to are achieved," he said to a thunderous applause from thousands of his supporters waving tricolour and shouting slogans like 'Anna Hazare Zindabad'.

Flanked by his team members, including Shanti Bhushan, Prashant Bhushan, Arvind Kejriwal, Kiran Bedi and Manish Sisodia, Hazare said what has been achieved in Parliament yesterday is a victory of the people of India, democracy and those assembled in Ramlila Ground.

Maintaining that People's Parliament is bigger than "Parliament in Delhi", Hazare said that is why the Parliament had to listen to people's Parliament.

"This movement has created a faith that the country can be rid of corruption and we can go ahead with implementing laws and the Constitution made by Dr. B.R. Ambedkar," he said.

Referring to Parliament's decision to refer three of his demands - Citizen's charter, inclusion of lower bureaucracy and creation of Lokayuktas through Lokpal bill - for Standing Committee's consideration, he said, the country can be proud of this moment. Thirteen days of agitation has yielded fruits, he said.

Outlining his future agenda, Hazare chose reforms in election and education systems and working for the betterment of farmers and labourers.

He said his fight would now be for Right to Recall and Right to Reject. While Right to Recall would be for those elected, the Right to Reject will be a column in the ballot paper which would ensure the voter has a right to say that he does not like the listed candidates.

"We have to reform electoral system. (we need) Right to Reject. You should be able to reject your candidate in the ballot paper. We have to do that.

"If majority say they do not like any of the candidates in the fray, the election should be cancelled. How much money they (candidates) will distribute? Once the candidate spends Rs 10 crore for one election and if the election is cancelled, then right sense will dawn upon them," he said.

He said they will have to think about farmers' problems as well as the woes of labourers and fight for them relentlessly.

"We are thankful to the Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, he showed remarkable leadership yesterday in the parliament. We are also thankful to all the parliamentarians for listening to the voice of the common man," Kejriwal said.

"The entire country had poured out on the streets, their anger over a corrupt system was boiling over."

"We are thankful to Dr Naresh Trehan and his team from Medanta Medcity for the constant vigil and closely observing Anna Hazare's health. We are also thankful to media who have supported this cause.

"We did not have any funds but it was only due to your generosity and donations that we could achieve all this. We are also very thankful to officials of MCD, Delhi Jal Board, Delhi Police and Delhi mayor. I would also like to mention that all the officials of Delhi Police and Tihar Jail served us very well. Anna never felt he was in a jail. Lastly, we are very thankful to Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and all his activists and workers of Art of Living who united for this cause."

Describing them as the backbone of the agitation, Team Anna member Arvind Kejriwal had a special word of praise for the over 300 volunteers who worked round the clock for 13 days to the keep the movement against corruption going.

Minutes before Hazare broke his fast Sunday morning, RTI activist Arvind Kejriwal said: "The backbone of the protest is our volunteers who were insulted, scolded, treated in a bad way but still they worked efficiently for hours."

"On days when I used to sleep here and sometimes get up at 3 a.m., I used to see several volunteers hushing up at the stairs near the dais. When I used to ask them to sleep, they would say - 'No, we want to protect our Anna', that was their spirit," he said.

From food, ambulance, security, crowd management, maintaining links with the media, and transcribing speeches -- the volunteers from India Against Corruption (IAC) were the lifeline behind the 74-year-old's fast that gripped the world's attention.

Around 80 volunteers were in action at the ground all day and night to provide security to Hazare, said activist Atul Kumar.

These volunteers, both men and women, worked in shifts to ensure that some volunteers were always at Ramlila ground. "We worked in shifts - morning, evening and night," said Praveen Deshmukh, another volunteer.

History was made in Parliament on Saturday when the two Houses bowed to Anna Hazare's campaign, powered by a groundswell of popular support, for a strong and independent Lokpal.

The Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha unanimously resolved that the Standing Committee would consider Anna's three demands - including the lower bureaucracy in the Lokpal's purview, a central law for creating Lok Ayuktas in states and a citizen's charter for government departments providing public service. This finally paved the way for Anna's 12-day fast to end.

Around 4,000 people stayed overnight at the protest venue while hundreds of others arrived early in the morning.

"I started at around 5 am as I wanted to ensure that I could be in the front row, so that I could witness Anna breaking his fast," said 37-year-old Ramesh Kumar, a resident of Ghaziabad who claims to be a die-hard Anna supporter.

There is a festive atmosphere at the ground, as people are singing and dancing to the tune of drums and celebrating "victory" of Hazare.

Another supporter Vijay Gupta, who had come along with his family from Lucknow said, he was "happy to be part of history in making."

"I am extremely happy that the government has conceded to the demand of Anna Hazare, the corruption is affecting everybody in the society and we want a very strong Lokpal Bill," he said amid chanting of slogans.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...hours-nation-relieved/articleshow/9766385.cms
 

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