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A Few Questions From Me

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A Few Questions From Me

findingmyway

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Using "without the bad we cannot appreciate the good" cannot justify the fact that God allowed or created an environment mixing good and bad people in my view. Also that could be used as an excuse for many things, such as I could hurt someone physically so that when they heal they feel better and appreciate not being hurt any more. Also many people live such lives that they have no good to appreciate.

If you hurt someone to use that excuse then you are defying God's will and doing as you please. Many people do this but it does not justify their actions. His Will is that we become good people of our own accord without being forced into it. That is where the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is useful as it provides guidance on how to follow a path to become a good person. You cannot compare your actions to God but can aspire to imbibe the good qualities more detailed in Mool Mantar.


If God does not judge then there is no point in religion. However my view of Sikhi suggests god does judge, as it is believed that you become closer to god by being a good person, and you beocme further away when you are bad, it's semantics really.
As I said its a pathway. Sikhi is not a religion in the traditional sense, more moral guidance and advice on becoming a spiritual being. Spirituality helps one achieve ultimate peace and happiness. Moving closer or further from realising God makes us happier/less satisfied, not God so it has nothing to do with God judging us. God is not a person that can judge.

What I am saying is that, God being the creator of everything in this universe, can not be surprised as he has made everything if he is god. He will know what is going to happen, so is there even a point of having free-will? For example God puts me on the planet, he knows where I will end up. Or are you suggesting that if I went from a bad person to a good person God will change his plans/overall view of me?
We choose our own path according to our actions. Stop personifying Waheguru!! Let go of your preconceived notions from Christianity or whatever you have had experience with
 
Oct 29, 2010
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I've only started reading the granth recently, and I'm not very far but I have some questions.


1] sikhism require you to pray to god, implying that god wants you to pray to him. Wanting to be praised is a human trait, and surely god is something much greater than human emotions etc, so why would he need/want praise from mere humans? This to me suggests a narcissist quality that one would not expect from a force greater/responsible for creating everything.


2] Similarly, this suggests that god will react to the actions of humans emotionally, meaning he will be pleased with some actions (acting good, praying) and angry at other actions (adultery, dishonesty etc). This again conflicts with the idea of god imo, if god is the creator and something which we cannot possibly ever understand as he is out of our realm, then how is it possible for us to affect him, let alone be able to make him angry/happy.

3] If you want to believe that there is a god and he does show emotion, then why would he enable himself to feel emotion? Or create something which he has no control over that could affect his emotion? For example I wouldnt put my cat in a box with a dog because even tho its gully it might still get killed, there is a chance that cats and dogs get along but why would I take that chance?

4] Sikhism involves the gurus, who were in INDIA. Therefore the msg of sikhism first came to a section of the world. What about the rest of the world? Are they just unlucky/have to wait till the next life? If god really did want to make his message known, why not utilise some better form of communication where he could get his message across, after all he is god and the creator right? Does it not seem weird that god would make so little effort to become known and have one universal religion, and in fact rely on human gurus to carry out the huge task of spreading the word of his existence?

5] Finally the hindu gods are mentioned, are sikhs expected to believe that the hindu gods existed, like a human with an elephant head etc?

Please do not link me to articles from scholars and just reply to me yourself, and include granth quotes if necessary.

Thanks
Shanger ji,
Thank you for your questions and clarifications on Sikhi.
I will add my penny's worth.
Guru Granth Sahib is a guru - it has direction, support, pointers and examples to guide you through your journey of life. Being a guru in this form it caters for someone like me who knows nothing to say Phd who wants to research into origins of the world or god. When a child asks a question off a parent he would get the answer to the specfic question. Here you are expected to know or learn 'sikh' to find your answer by delving into the 'Book'. Because it covers innumerable aspects we need to know what to look - that is where we look to experts in that field. These experts we know have very different agendas. So we need to have a verification route i.e. we also be able to find the answer ourselves - again we learn and learn till we get there. However the simpler we keep it the better.
Praise
When we get the answer we may think I already know that and we do not thank people for that or if we learn something that is helpful we do. Our gurus knowing infinitly more than I do found from HIM information to help them and millions of us - why would they not praise him and also to tell us it is worth praising than say killing humanity.
Reward and Punishment
This is a matter of understanding and interpretation of the scriptures.
Assume you have to reach somewhere and there are no paths, you do not know if there will be food, water would it be free of danger, would there be shelter?
If you could look at your surroundings make use of the 'tools' available to you i.e. say sun, moon, stars - hills all - you may find an acceptable route and get there. However if you were blind your tools may be different and through the journey you may enjoy yourself in the sweet smelling meadows, feed birds and so on or you may get bogged in a swamp end up in cold inhospitable place and curse all - could this be reward punishment scenario.
By doing 'good deeds that please god' you are orienting yourself to a pattern that you and HIM can understand and download 'tools' from the link all that helps you for free. (You can easily otherwise end up on a 'site' where you end up paying for something useless.) The link and pattern that you establish, if good, would also help countless others when they see your example of leading a smooth journey i.e 'good person' getting somewhere. (I liken this to driving on a road or motorway if you drive carefully - with courtesy, indicators and giving other bikes and cars the space - people behind you will do the same - try it out!)
Emotions
Lord is infinite in all senses of the word including love and hate. What you see as 'evil' is the path you have chosen, a Bush may blow up Bagdad or a surgeon may save life. (This path has to be cultivated as described above). Do not drop this in Lord's lap! You have two hands, feet and mind and they can be used.
Why did he send Gurus to India?
I think the Lord must be having a hard time of this!
After sending 10 gurus and countless slaps and up lifts - endless help - it has made no difference to the sikhs - all they can do is to manufature holes in a seamles sheet (say dasam granth). We have a saying 'natch na jane angen teda'.
To be serious a tree sheds its seeds close by where it knows the environment and climate is suitable. I think we may need to investigate this further in the Granth Sahib.
Hindu Idols
I am not completey with this - these beliefs are included to make us understand that even with untold wisdom at our doorstep there are people who find destruction better than construction. Right through the life journey of our gurus an element of this philosphy has interfered and infiltraed in Sikism to corupt it by attempts to produce parallel sakhis to satisfy their vanity, stood in the way of the gurus by obstructing their way to the Places of worship They Built for us! These people are here with us - may be not human with elephant's head but similar traits. This can only be combatted by TRUTH humilty and recognition of the sacrifies of of Gurus and their glorious followers who has made some of us proud to be Sikhs.
 
Oct 29, 2010
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Hello.

Ok I can accept that a part of God is inside us since he created us but-

I would have to disagree that we have all the abilities god has if we find the truth, if God is the creator then he can do anything, from miracles to changing the laws of physics if he pleases etc. I don't think a human can do this.


But why should we have to go on this journey? If God is god then he will know what will happen to us, whether we make it or not, whether we become corrupted along the way etc. It is not unreasonable in my opinion to expect God to predict the future since he created everything including concepts such as time.
Or supposing for some reason god cannot predict the future, does that make human life a kind of movie or experiment?





Thanks for reply, look forward to response
Shanger Ji,
Not being familiar with blog yet I posted another reply before I saw further questions you posed.

The difference between an alive person and a dead person is 'the god part' in the dead person goes back to GOD and becomes part of the INFINITY - that infinty can do anything! As our gurus have said only by finding the truth you get out of the cycle of birth and rebirth. That would take you to a stage where our gurus were - and you know they could do a lot of things that god can but what was the need? Please read Gurus' sakhis - they did leave a lot of examples to convince us that is possible.

PHP:
But why should we have to go on this journey? If God is god then he will  know what will happen to us, whether we make it or not, whether we  become corrupted along the way etc. It is not unreasonable in my opinion  to expect God to predict the future since he created everything  including concepts such as time. 
Or supposing for some reason god cannot predict the future, does that make human life a kind of movie or experiment?
We are here and now - I guess we cant just sit around and be lost sheep- HE has made us with abilities and form to contribute to the humanity and the world. If we are a part of him possibly to bring his message and help all we can influence (at least our immediate family and friends etc.). This is the journey - I do not know why but am pleased he chose us! For all you know we might have done something to his liking the last time but not quite enough and now we have another chance to see if we can improve on that this time!!

Thanks and hoping that helps and please find the other reply elswhere.
 

Shanger

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Oct 29, 2010
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If you hurt someone to use that excuse then you are defying God's will and doing as you please. Many people do this but it does not justify their actions. His Will is that we become good people of our own accord without being forced into it. That is where the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is useful as it provides guidance on how to follow a path to become a good person. You cannot compare your actions to God but can aspire to imbibe the good qualities more detailed in Mool Mantar.
This comes back to my original point, if it is in Gods will for there to be goodness/peace everywhere, then why make a world where there is a mix of good and bad?

You're saying that gods will it that we do it of our own accord, many people will not, so why does God feel the need to put them on this earth?

As I said its a pathway. Sikhi is not a religion in the traditional sense, more moral guidance and advice on becoming a spiritual being. Spirituality helps one achieve ultimate peace and happiness. Moving closer or further from realising God makes us happier/less satisfied, not God so it has nothing to do with God judging us. God is not a person that can judge.
We strive to break the reincarnation cycle right? By being as good as we possibly can be.

Therefore God does judge us, it is basically from my understanding, act good and reach salvation or act bad and carry on reincarnating as plants/rocks etc.

Saying that god does not judge us is like me saying that-
"you must sign a new contract for your job which gives you a paycut and demands harder work, you must sign if you want to stay.
therefore it is your choice whether you remain an employee"

i'm not saying that what God is askin of us is unreasonable (as sikhi promotes good morals etc), but that it does seem a threat, meaning god reacts to our actions and is unable to control us despite creating everything.

We choose our own path according to our actions. Stop personifying Waheguru!! Let go of your preconceived notions from Christianity or whatever you have had experience with
No I am basing what I am saying on my understandings of sikhism.

Yes we choose our own path only if we do what God tells us to, this suggests that god will react to the actions of humans emotionally, meaning he will be pleased with some actions (acting good, praying) and angry at other actions (adultery, dishonesty etc). Conflicting with the idea of god in my opinion, as if god is the creator and something which we cannot possibly ever understand as he is out of our realm, then how is it possible for us to affect him, let alone be able to make him angry/happy to take such action as to promote/relegate us in the reincarnation cycle.

also thanks for the reply davinderdhanjal i will respond shortly
 

Shanger

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Oct 29, 2010
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Shanger ji,
Thank you for your questions and clarifications on Sikhi.
I will add my penny's worth.
Thanks, hello.

Praise
When we get the answer we may think I already know that and we do not thank people for that or if we learn something that is helpful we do. Our gurus knowing infinitly more than I do found from HIM information to help them and millions of us - why would they not praise him and also to tell us it is worth praising than say killing humanity.
My point is that, just because someone does not pray, does not mean they will do something evil instead.

Also since God created everything is there a need to praise him? God cannot be insecure or a narcissist as that would conflict with the idea of god in my opinion.


Reward and Punishment
This is a matter of understanding and interpretation of the scriptures.
Assume you have to reach somewhere and there are no paths, you do not know if there will be food, water would it be free of danger, would there be shelter?

If you could look at your surroundings make use of the 'tools' available to you i.e. say sun, moon, stars - hills all - you may find an acceptable route and get there. However if you were blind your tools may be different and through the journey you may enjoy yourself in the sweet smelling meadows, feed birds and so on or you may get bogged in a swamp end up in cold inhospitable place and curse all - could this be reward punishment scenario.
I'm not sure I understand how the example you have just given fits in with the reward/punishment scenario.

Are you saying that using the available tools on that path is the same as doing good deeds to get to your path to god?


By doing 'good deeds that please god' you are orienting yourself to a pattern that you and HIM can understand and download 'tools' from the link all that helps you for free. (You can easily otherwise end up on a 'site' where you end up paying for something useless.) The link and pattern that you establish, if good, would also help countless others when they see your example of leading a smooth journey i.e 'good person' getting somewhere. (I liken this to driving on a road or motorway if you drive carefully - with courtesy, indicators and giving other bikes and cars the space - people behind you will do the same - try it out!)
I absolutely understand the benefit to humanity of doing good deeds. It is just that it gives god very human characteristics if he can become pleased/sad at our actions? Which makes me wonder why he would torture himself by creating this world as there is so much evil.
 

Shanger

SPNer
Oct 29, 2010
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43
The difference between an alive person and a dead person is 'the god part' in the dead person goes back to GOD and becomes part of the INFINITY - that infinty can do anything! As our gurus have said only by finding the truth you get out of the cycle of birth and rebirth. That would take you to a stage where our gurus were - and you know they could do a lot of things that god can but what was the need? Please read Gurus' sakhis - they did leave a lot of examples to convince us that is possible.
Ok I will read. So you believe the Gurus could perform miracles?


We are here and now - I guess we cant just sit around and be lost sheep- HE has made us with abilities and form to contribute to the humanity and the world. If we are a part of him possibly to bring his message and help all we can influence (at least our immediate family and friends etc.). This is the journey - I do not know why but am pleased he chose us! For all you know we might have done something to his liking the last time but not quite enough and now we have another chance to see if we can improve on that this time!!

Thanks and hoping that helps and please find the other reply elswhere.
But what you have just said makes it seem like God created us, and then sat back and HOPED that we would do good deeds? Objectively speaking can you say that you could understand that behaviour from the force responsible for creating the world?
 

findingmyway

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This comes back to my original point, if it is in Gods will for there to be goodness/peace everywhere, then why make a world where there is a mix of good and bad?

You're saying that gods will it that we do it of our own accord, many people will not, so why does God feel the need to put them on this earth?
That is the beauty of free will. Also as I have said time and gain the bad is due to people's actions, not God. We need to take responsibility for ouselves rather than passing the buck.

We strive to break the reincarnation cycle right? By being as good as we possibly can be.

Therefore God does judge us, it is basically from my understanding, act good and reach salvation or act bad and carry on reincarnating as plants/rocks etc.
You have completely misunderstood reincarnation. Sikhi believes in rebirth not reincarnaton. They are very different so I suggest you do some reading!

i'm not saying that what God is askin of us is unreasonable (as sikhi promotes good morals etc), but that it does seem a threat, meaning god reacts to our actions and is unable to control us despite creating everything.
This is personifying God. Ik Oankar does not judge as Ik Oankar is part of everything on this planet and beyond. Ik Oankar does not have emotions as that would make him like animals. If God was a controlling person, what would be the point of life!

Yes we choose our own path only if we do what God tells us to, this suggests that god will react to the actions of humans emotionally, meaning he will be pleased with some actions (acting good, praying) and angry at other actions (adultery, dishonesty etc). Conflicting with the idea of god in my opinion, as if god is the creator and something which we cannot possibly ever understand as he is out of our realm, then how is it possible for us to affect him, let alone be able to make him angry/happy to take such action as to promote/relegate us in the reincarnation cycle.
We don't affect him, we affect ourselves. Again you are personaifying Ik Oankar. The only way to alleviate your lack of understanding is to start understanding the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and start reading around. There is a wealth of information on this site. Understanding takes time-that is why we are Sikhs, all of us are still learning! Understanding gurbani is a hige task and takes a lifetime. Asking a few questions will not clear your thoughts as you don't have the background knowledge to understand the answers. I suggest you first start looking at the mool mantar. Don't just rely on 1 English translation as they are often quite poor, try looking at several translations and also see what people have to say on this site and at your local Gurdwara.
Best wishes,
Jasleen
 

Shanger

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Oct 29, 2010
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Ok I will come back to this thread once I have read more so I can come back with knowledge/quotes if necessary to avoid us going in circles.

thanks
 
Oct 29, 2010
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Shanger Ji,

(But what you have just said makes it seem like God created us, and then sat back and HOPED that we would do good deeds? Objectively speaking can you say that you could understand that behaviour from the force responsible for creating the world?)

If this is what you understood from what I wrote then we have a slight problem or you are just wet around the ears!
Do you know there is a woman who does not have arms but she has a baby that she looks after like a two handed mother! She has not understood what you say about the Lord and I am sure she does not complain to him about her disability - she would not have had the child if she did. If she thought like you she would be begging in the streets.
I consider this as an example to the world of what the lord can do for those who want to help themselves. I would put her in the catagory of saints.
Sometimes we have to move forward from thoughts to doing something practical to gain the Lord's help and direction as SHE has done.
YouTube - Most amazing mother ever! No hands!
See and hear her!!
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8ZuKF3dxCY&NR=1
 

Shanger

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Oct 29, 2010
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You have completely misunderstood reincarnation. Sikhi believes in rebirth not reincarnaton. They are very different so I suggest you do some reading!
Oh yeah-

I don't understand, checked on wiki

Reincarnation is believed to occur when the soul or spirit, after the death of the body, comes back to life in a newborn body.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation

In Sikhism, it is thought that due to the commendable past actions and deeds (known as karma or kirat) that people obtain the chance of human birth, which is regarded in Sikhism as the highest possible opportunity on Earth and therefore should not be wasted. Only by continued good actions and the "Grace of the Almighty" can one obtain liberation from the continuous cycle of births and deaths of various bodily forms that the soul has been undergoing since the creation of the universe. The end of the cycle of transmigration of the soul is known as mukti. For Sikhs, the state of mukti can be achieved whilst still alive, known as "Jivan Mukat", literally "liberated whilst alive".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saṃsāra#Sa.E1.B9.85s.C4.81ra_in_Sikhism

The soul will have lived through many lives and will have inhabited many different forms before eventually being born in a human body.
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sikh_Beliefs#Mukti_or_Salvation

rebirth doesn't sound much different from reincarnation at all?
 

Shanger

SPNer
Oct 29, 2010
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Charity work is a type of praying as you are working to look after God's creation. One of the 3 pillars of Sikhi is seva-selfless service. As Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji said, kirtan is not just singing His praises but following advice in the Granth Sahib to become a better person. If someone stays on the right path without guidance, good for them!


Also going back to this point, is it really possible to be a good person and find god without praying?

I ask this because I'm sure I remember reading a shabad that said one can only reach salvation by meditating on the name of naam? I could be mistaken

Also this

|| 1 || Those who do not meditate and vibrate on the Lord - I do not even want to see them. || 1 || Pause || Those whose inner beings are not in harmony with the Lord, are nothing more than beasts. |
http://www.sikhs.org/english/eg112.htm

Is this a metaphor I do not understand? Or a message to atheists/agnostics etc? Or does the 2nd line suggest it is referring only to bad people who by being bad are not in harmony with the lord?
 

spnadmin

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Shanger ji

It is not possible to interpret the single verse outside of the context of the Shabad. Right now I would love to do that but do not have time.

|| 1 || Those who do not meditate and vibrate on the Lord - I do not even want to see them. || 1 || Pause || Those whose inner beings are not in harmony with the Lord, are nothing more than beasts. |

http://www.sikhs.org/english/eg112.htm

Is this a metaphor I do not understand? Or a message to atheists/agnostics etc? Or does the 2nd line suggest it is referring only to bad people who by being bad are not in harmony with the lord?
I am not going to blame the translation. Rather, to do a proper analysis of this shabad, there are some things are needed for context. The shabad is a message to all of us. The message is: "Engage yourself in the deepest devotion."

The shabad is using Hindu imagery. The shabad is also composed by the Bhagat Nam Dev. Bhagat Nam Dev was a leading figure in the Bhakti movement of Northern India, which roughly occurred before and during the time of Guru Nanak. The Bhakti movement criticized the caste system, tended to see the Divine in the form of a single deity, understood the deity to be the "parabraham" or all pervading divine principle, and taught deep devotion rather than idolatry.

Therefore to understand what is referred in the verse and in the shabad, one needs to know the story of Nam Dev. And yes the language is employing metaphors and symbolism that are specific to the Vedantic system of philosophy (e.g., | Prays Naam Dayv, a man without a nose does not look handsome, even if he has the thirty-two beauty marks). And they should not be taken literally. Sorry to give you a rushed reply.

Essentially the line you cite is a poetic rejection of ritualistic worship and idolatry. Nam Dev is saying that this is not true bhagati/devotion and the Lord does not want to see it or hear it. Actually will not give "darshan."

By exploring the development of the images in the shabad, and how one idea leads to the next, you get a better sense of that single line. When you read more about Nam Dev it becomes clearer too. I would encourage you - though some may be shocked - to read Hindu sources on Nam Dev, as well as Sikh sources, to get the full measure of his impact on the Bhakti movement. Life sketches/janamsakkhis of the bhagats often give a distorted view of their contributions to the Guru Granth. Nam Dev was an ardent believer in Krishna; however, he also rejected idol worship.
 
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spnadmin

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Back now and here is what I make of the shabad in question in its entirety, Shanger ji.

All the elements of the Bhakti devotional tradition are found in the shabad. When you read through you can see these principles of Bhakti enunciated in the Gitas:

(Verse. 3) “Those who search my imperishable, invisible, unmanifest, omnipresent, beyond the limits of imaginations and yet permanent and hidden form (Spirit or soul) are also my devotees”. (V-3). For such devotees Lord indicates a three point plan (formula or path) in verse N0. 4.

(Verse. 4) “Those who search me via search of self (Atman) and soul can also see me in following way: (1) They have to control 10 organs- 5 sense organs and 5 organs of actions, plus mind and intellect; (2) They have to develop an attitude of equality for all living beings, (namely all living human beings, animals and plants) (3) They have to ever remain active in benevolent deeds for the welfare of all beings and creations during their entire life. Then such devotees can see my infinite form”. (V-4).

So how do we find this in the shabad of Sant Namdev.

Stanzas 1 and 2 Namdev threatens :) his tongue with physical harm. He is actually speaking to all of us. This is only figuratively a threat, of course. Taste is one of the senses and the tongue is the organ for taste, and ultimately over indulgence in food. He says to his tongue, " Chant," do immerse yourself, Tongue, in devotion to sri govind, instead, because sri govind is the wondrous seed of the universe. Govind also stands for spiritual wisdom.

ਰੇ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਕਰਉ ਸਤ ਖੰਡ ॥
rae jihabaa karo sath khandd ||
O my tongue, I will cut you into a hundred pieces,


ਜਾਮਿ ਨ ਉਚਰਸਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ॥੧॥
jaam n oucharas sree gobindh ||1||
if you do not chant the Name of the Lord. ||1||


Stanzas 3 and 4, Namdev says the tongue (all of us) should instead be "imbued" / drenched in the name of Hari, the Lord. The rehao line makes more obvious that not only the tongue but all of our consciousness should be imbued with the "this most excellent color" /meaning dyed with the love of Haree.

ਰੰਗੀ ਲੇ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੈ ਨਾਇ ॥
rangee lae jihabaa har kai naae ||
O my tongue, be imbued with the Lord's Name.

ਸੁਰੰਗ ਰੰਗੀਲੇ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
surang rangeelae har har dhhiaae ||1|| rehaao ||
Meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, and imbue yourself with this most excellent color. ||1||Pause||

Stanzas 5 and 6. Here again the tongue is used only as metaphor for all of our body and mind. We have a tendency to busy ourselves with the material world and our false views of reality, Maya. If the tongue (we) were to recite the name of the One God Haree, then the tongue (we) would achieve consciousness of God, become Godly. It is only through this meditation, according to the bhagats of Nam Dev's time, that one achieves nirvana, or the "step" of nirvana which is the stage at which a devotee achieves realization of God. Everything else is false.

ਮਿਥਿਆ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਅਵਰੇਂ ਕਾਮ ॥
mithhiaa jihabaa avaraen kaam ||
O my tongue, other occupations are false.


ਨਿਰਬਾਣ ਪਦੁ ਇਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੨॥
nirabaan padh eik har ko naam ||2||
The state of Nirvaanaa comes only through the Lord's Name. ||2||


Stanza 7 and 8. Bhagat Namdev teaches that all other forms of worship and "devotion" or pooja are nothing compared to total devotion and immersion in the Naamai Haree, God's name.

ਅਸੰਖ ਕੋਟਿ ਅਨ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੀ ॥
asankh kott an poojaa karee ||
The performance of countless millions of other devotions

ਏਕ ਨ ਪੂਜਸਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਹਰੀ ॥੩॥
eaek n poojas naamai haree ||3||
is not equal to even one devotion to the Name of the Lord. ||3||

Stanzas 9. Namdev says this is his one and only blessed deed or karanaa - to be a faithful devotee of God.

ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਇਹੁ ਕਰਣਾ ॥
pranavai naamadhaeo eihu karanaa ||
Prays Naam Dayv, this is my occupation.

Stanza 10 Namdev says God/Haree your forms are endless/naaraaeinaa.

ਅਨੰਤ ਰੂਪ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਰਾਇਣਾ ॥੪॥੧॥
ananth roop thaerae naaraaeinaa ||4||1||
O Lord, Your Forms are endless. ||4||1||

Stanza 11 and 12. He then gives the moral teaching consistent with the Bhakti philosophy. Those of us who give up greed and lust, those are the ones who are able to take refuge in Haree.

ਪਰ ਧਨ ਪਰ ਦਾਰਾ ਪਰਹਰੀ ॥
par dhhan par dhaaraa pareharee ||
One who stays away from others' wealth and others' spouses

ਤਾ ਕੈ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਬਸੈ ਨਰਹਰੀ ॥੧॥
thaa kai nikatt basai nareharee ||1||
- the Lord abides near that person. ||1||

Stanzas 13 and 14 Namdev speaks to those who do not "meditate and vibrate"/actually sing bhajans (bhajanthae). Bhajans are mantras in praise of a deity and are set to music and meant to be sung in sangat. The verse in English says, "I do not want to see them." This means, however, to those people I will not give darshan (Namdev will only give darshan to those who are serious about their devotion.) This is a second rehao line and is therefore very important. It is important to remember that Namdev is writing this as if he is the one who is speaking it. However, he is actually stating that those who are not faithful and devout will not receive darshan of Haree. In the end, they will not achieve God Conciousness.

ਜੋ ਨ ਭਜੰਤੇ ਨਾਰਾਇਣਾ ॥
jo n bhajanthae naaraaeinaa ||
Those who do not meditate and vibrate on the Lord

ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਰਉ ਦਰਸਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
thin kaa mai n karo dharasanaa ||1|| rehaao ||
- I do not even want to see them. ||1||Pause||

Stanza 15 and 16 He says that if someone cannot be in harmony, in tune, with the divine, that person then still possesses an animal nature. In other words, it is only through faith, devotion and consciousness of the divine that we become truly human.

ਜਿਨ ਕੈ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਹੈ ਅੰਤਰਾ ॥
jin kai bheethar hai antharaa ||
Those whose inner beings are not in harmony with the Lord,



ਜੈਸੇ ਪਸੁ ਤੈਸੇ ਓਇ ਨਰਾ ॥੨॥
jaisae pas thaisae oue naraa ||2||
are nothing more than beasts. ||2||


Stanzas 17 and 18. This image of the nose and the beauty marks is very much a powerful teaching of an important idea in the Bhakti movement. A man without a nose cannot breathe properly. The nose in this stanza is the organ that brings in air, which is the pranayam, or spiritual energy. The 32 beauty marks refer to the 32 qualities that Hindus believed were evidence of a moral nature. A person could have only a few indicators of a moral life, or all 32. But Namdev is saying that even this is academic. Even a moral person must imbue the essence of Haree through devotion.

ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਨਾਕਹਿ ਬਿਨਾ ॥
pranavath naamadhaeo naakehi binaa ||
Prays Naam Dayv, a man without a nose


ਨਾ ਸੋਹੈ ਬਤੀਸ ਲਖਨਾ ॥੩॥੨॥
naa sohai bathees lakhanaa ||3||2||
does not look handsome, even if he has the thirty-two beauty marks. ||3||2||

In one sentence, Bhagat Nam Dev is saying if you do not give up your indulgence in the material world of sensation, and drench yourself in devotion to the naam, you never will achieve the state of god consciousness. Hope that helps with your question.
 

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