Yogism 3H0 Gurudwaras And Yoga

[Arvind]

Moderator's Note:

I see a few personal attacks among respected SPN members. Let us avoid those by following a few simple rules, as follows:

1. Respect private messages, which someone would have sent you in confidance in you. Presenting a PM with own interpretation, publicly, is not appropriate. Example: Looks like Nam Hari ji sent a PM to CC, the public presentation of which is an embarassment to NH ji. Let us avoid this. This has full potential to continued personal attacks.

2. No generalizations please. Example: rajsikh saying 'get hurt all the time'. Either provide a basis or stop generalizations.

I am happy to see a discussion oriented ambience on SPN forums all the times. I take the liberty of generalization here, which seems valid to me. Proof is most of the discussions here.

Thanks for listening.

Regards, Arvind.

 

[Arvind]

I Think one of the bigest mistakes made when quoteing Gurbani is to only quote the line or sentence that may back up your claim. We need to post the thing, the whole page, or pages dealing with whatever Guru Ji is tellng us.

Yes Sir, You are absolutely right. Single tukk when not considering the full shabad may be presented totally out of context. Thanks for pointing this.

Regards.

 

[CaramelChocolate]

Arvind, you used examples that I had attacked and also rajsikh, but NamHariKaur has also attacked.
I no longer wish to communicate with you on any topic privately or publicly until I see you learning appropriate social etiquette and a little humility.

She is: Refusing to talk to me because I gave me own views, saying I am egotistical [non-humble], rude [not using social etitquette]... who is she to attack ME like this and JUDGE another?

 

[Arvind]

Dear CC,

I didnt give the complete list of examples. In fact, even the ones I gave, I perhaps shouldnt have given out, as it singles out people.

I request you all intelligent members to take a deep breath, relax... and maintain a healthy discussion.

If someone doesnt like other person or their views, just ignore but dont get into any insulting comments. This applies to all of us. Let us not prolong this more, or else, if not satisfied, take this via PMs to each other. Remember, that time spent could be well utilized towards Guru Sahib, instead of exchanging heated arguments.

Bhull Chukk Maaf.

 

[Hukum Kaur]

Caramel Chocolate and Nam Hari, I love you both! Thank you Arvind Singh for being so justly in the middle. Sat Naam!
And I agree that posting snipits could be manipulative.
Caramel Chocolate, arent you looking for 3HO places in the UK,
which means that you are intersted to look into this whole yoga thing for yourself? I find that wonderfull,
I too would like to know of places there, since I will be visiting London for two weeks. If we cant find a place I would love to offer to lead a ´class` for you and whom ever else. I know my friend who I am visiting is interested. However, the UK is HUGE, so if it is ment to be, it will be...
Wahe Guru!
Liv Kaur

 

[CaramelChocolate]

Liv Kaur I am interested in seeing a non-punjabi Sikhi community and the 3H0 seems to be the only one with a name at least, that's what I meant by a 3H0 Gurudwaras, I am not really interested in seeing indepth, just curious to visit one if there is on here in London... and besides, I don't fancy getting up around 3am to see a yoga session! :2:

Liv Kaur if you are interested in Sikh places to visit in London or Gurudwaras then I can give you some just personal message me, I can also give you some Hindu temple information as well if you are interested or any other info, just let me know!

 

[Hukum Kaur]

Just some last few ideas that I have about yoga:
1)I have often heard it said, that if you want to be rich, hang out with rich people. Sikhism often speaks of the company of the holy. If a yoga teacher is realy experienced and guifted he or she can take you to a place within your self, through a simple static (not moving) streatch with breathing. Again, its not about the postures, its about the experience, and feeling the sensation of your soul and sharing that with God.
2)The 3HO musicians do not sing about yoga. They sing about God. So their spiritual practice is not only through yoga. The music helps create the space, a safe place to relax and be receptive to the energy of God within. The Krias (completed action) are done in front of the Guru, but when we lie down for an exercise or posture, ones feet are pointed AWAY from the SSGS.
3)This one is the most important. I am a masssage therapist and I see a lot of people who suffer from strains of this society. Mainly office work, reptative stress and car accidents. You are aware of all of this. My point is that we need a tool to reverse these stresses. The light and truth of God can cure all pains, this I believe. Yet I also believe that as human beings we need to heal each other and ourselves.
Side note:
Thai massage is where the therapist puts the relaxed client in postures and gently and fluidly stretches them. Its like a passive yoga for the client. The therapist also presses along energy lines\sen lines\meridians
to relese blockages. This modality was created by Buddahs phisician to keep the blood circulating in those who sit in meditation all day.
A Hukam:
The body is the Lords horse, imbued with the fresh and new color. From the Guru, I ask for the Lords spiritual wisdom. I ask for the Lords spiritual wisdom, and the Lords sublime sermon; through the Name of the Lord, I have come to know His value and His state. The Creator has made my whole life fruitful; I chant the Name of the Lord. The Lords humble servant begs for the Lords Name, for the Lords Praises, and for devotional worship of the Lord God. Says servant Nanak, listen, O Saints: devotional worship of the Lord, the Lord of the Universe, is good and sublime. || 1 || The golden body is adorned with the saddle of gold. It is adorned with the jewel of the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. Adorned with the jewel of the Naam, one obtains the Lord of the Universe; he meets the Lord and sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord, obtaining all sorts of comforts. He obtains the Word of the Gurus Shabad, and meditates on the Name of the Lord; by great good fortune, he assumes the color of the Lords Love. He meets his Lord and Master, the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts; His body is ever-new, and His color is ever-fresh. Nanak chants and realizes the Naam; he begs for the Name of the Lord, the Lord God. || 2 || The Guru has placed the reins in the mouth of the body-horse. The mind-elephant is overpowered by the Word of the Gurus Shabad. The bride obtains the supreme status, as her mind is brought under control; she is the beloved of her Husband Lord. Deep within her inner being, she is in love with her Lord. In His home, she is so beautiful  she is the bride of her Lord God. Attuned to the Lords Love, she is intuitively absorbed in bliss; she obtains the Lord God, Har, Har. Servant Nanak, the Lords slave, says that only the very fortunate meditate on the Lord, Har, Har. || 3 || The body is the horse, which one rides to the Lord. Meeting the True Guru, one sings the songs of joy. Sing the songs of joy to the Lord, serve the Name of the Lord, and become the servant of His servants. Go and enter the Mansion of Gods Presence, and lovingly enjoy the Lords Love. I sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, so pleasing to my mind; following the Gurus Teachings, I meditate on the Lord within my mind. The Lord has showered His Mercy upon servant Nanak; mounting the body-horse, he has found the Lord.

This discution has made me realize, however, that sometimes I am too concerned with the body´s phisical shape. This is also influenced by the society (magazenes, TV, movies...). So I thank you for reminding me to stay focused on the inner, and to not have goals of a six pack, but goals of outer body experiences. Sat naam, Wahe Guru


PS
Caramel Chocolate, I apreciate the info. offer, and will contact you via PM, and yoga is at any time of the day. Sadhana is ambrotial hours.

 

[Jogindar Singh Kaur]

NamHariji, CCji, what Liv said about loving you both. It's somewhat unsettling to see such rancor between two people who wisdom I adore. And thanks Arvind, for helping to cool this discussion down some.

There are very few of us who are neither Punjabi nor 3H0. I came to the SGGS from the internet, and I suspect that there will be many, many more of us in the future. You can see the nascent beginnings of this on Sikhnet-- may it be Waheguruji's will that this becomes even more so in the future! If all three communities can come together, Punjabi, 3H0 and non-3H0, it will be a blessing for all concerned.

 

[aps0306]

Sat Sri Akal Everybody,

I was searching Yoga and Sikhism and finally I land up here.
I read the whole article and I fully agree with lee in terms of using the
complete meaning of the shabad. One line in a shabad or pauri will give a very different meaning as compared to the whole shabad. Thats why we say "Rahao".
I am very new to sikh philosophy so can you all help me in learning more.

But I want to comment on this thread..Yoga and Sikhism...I still not able to get the answer.

AP

 

[Lionchild]

This is a very interesting topic, i really am sad that 3HO now has it's own temples, sect, and now even maryada. While i respect their views on some issues, some of their practices are just plain strange. I believe yoga can be good, in moderation. What worries me is people going further and going into other aspects of yoga, some types can actual be harmful to us spiritually.

However, Very good replies in this forum!

 

[Jaspal Singh]

Yoga is about concentration of mind and people use Yoga with chanting of mantars. Mantars are actually connecting with some spiritual powers. Thus these start affecting the mind of person. You will see that these mantras oriented yoga is done by same kind of people so that they have same spiritual force in action.

In a nut shell it is same seeking the blessing of someone who had died and one is doing puja of their Smadh, invoking that departed soul.

The only mantar that one connects to GOD is Gurmantar of SatGuru and for sikhs that is Waheguru.

The rest is getting entagling into Maya.

Page 44;
O my mind, focus your consciousness on the One. Without the One, all entanglements are worthless; emotional attachment to Maya is totally false. ||


There are lot of misinterpretations in the Translation of Guru Granth Sahib ji, as done by Dr Sant Singh Khalsa and one need to look at the verses in the Guru Granth Sahib ji for correct interpretation.

Guru Ram Das ji NEVER did YOGA.

The verse that Sikh Dharma ispushing down the throat of sikhs talk about Kundlini, that is the knots (lack of understanding) in our mind. With the seva of Guru (contemplation of Guru's shabd) this knot opens up and is called Kundlini surji.

Yoga is good for physical excercises and if a sikh thinks they can realise GOD then one needs to think carefully about teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji

Page 1334:
If someone turns his face away from the Guru, and does not enshrine the Guru's Words in his consciousness - he may perform all sorts of rituals and accumulate wealth, but in the end, he will fall into hell. || 4 ||

One should look the Yoga, chakras etc in Rag Ramkali and try to understand what this Yoga means.

In a nut shell Sikh Dharma is involved in white majic excercises to make contacts with spirits and seek powers. That is what it is called entangling with Maya.

 

[kaur-1]

Yoga is about concentration of mind and people use Yoga with chanting of mantars. Mantars are actually connecting with some spiritual powers. Thus these start affecting the mind of person. You will see that these mantras oriented yoga is done by same kind of people so that they have same spiritual force in action.

In a nut shell it is same seeking the blessing of someone who had died and one is doing puja of their Smadh, invoking that departed soul.

The only mantar that one connects to GOD is Gurmantar of SatGuru and for sikhs that is Waheguru.

The rest is getting entagling into Maya.

Page 44;
O my mind, focus your consciousness on the One. Without the One, all entanglements are worthless; emotional attachment to Maya is totally false. ||


There are lot of misinterpretations in the Translation of Guru Granth Sahib ji, as done by Dr Sant Singh Khalsa and one need to look at the verses in the Guru Granth Sahib ji for correct interpretation.

Guru Ram Das ji NEVER did YOGA.

The verse that Sikh Dharma ispushing down the throat of sikhs talk about Kundlini, that is the knots (lack of understanding) in our mind. With the seva of Guru (contemplation of Guru's shabd) this knot opens up and is called Kundlini surji.

Yoga is good for physical excercises and if a sikh thinks they can realise GOD then one needs to think carefully about teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji

Page 1334:
If someone turns his face away from the Guru, and does not enshrine the Guru's Words in his consciousness - he may perform all sorts of rituals and accumulate wealth, but in the end, he will fall into hell. || 4 ||

One should look the Yoga, chakras etc in Rag Ramkali and try to understand what this Yoga means.

In a nut shell Sikh Dharma is involved in white majic excercises to make contacts with spirits and seek powers. That is what it is called entangling with Maya.

To make it clear "Sikh Dharma" you stated in the above post is "3HO Sikh Dharma" NOT Sikh Dharma in general.

 

[Jaspal Singh]

How are they different?

Because I see Advertisement regarding White Majic mantars and samagams on sikhnet main page?

Can you please let us know the differences?

I know there are many american sikhs who try to follow strictly the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji but then majority is far away

 

[kaur-1]

How are they different?

Because I see Advertisement regarding White Majic mantars and samagams on sikhnet main page?

Can you please let us know the differences?

I know there are many american sikhs who try to follow strictly the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji but then majority is far away

Your comment "In a nut shell Sikh Dharma is involved in white majic excercises to make contacts with spirits and seek powers. That is what it is called entangling with Maya."

By using the word "dharma" and "Sikh" you are obviously generalising the Sikh Faith with white magic arent you?

If you think that Sikhnet is involved in this, then please state it clearly.

 

[Lionchild]

Your comment "In a nut shell Sikh Dharma is involved in white majic excercises to make contacts with spirits and seek powers. That is what it is called entangling with Maya."

By using the word "dharma" and "Sikh" you are obviously generalising the Sikh Faith with white magic arent you?

If you think that Sikhnet is involved in this, then please state it clearly.

I often wondered about this, you see that sikhnet (still a godd site), may be mixing a few things up, they even have there on rehat maryada, and it is quite exotic.

 

[Jaspal Singh]

OK.
I used the words Sikh Dharma whic appears to lead to every sikh.

Will the word 'Sikh Dharma of the West' be sufficient. These are the words used by some of the sikhs but it will also give the impression all people in west who are sikhs.

I leave it there with a note that Desi Sikh Babas that come to west are also into these kind of things. The essential point is seeking help of entities other than Guru's shabd. Guru's shabd is Nirmal and it connects to GOD.

All other avenues have draw backs and is maya. When we enter into coal mine we cannot come out without some degree of black soot /stains. However good or clean our clothes were before we entered there is immaterial.

 

[Lionchild]

I'm not sure if anyone else knows, but many poepl in the 3HO think that Yogi bhajan is almost like a sant or even a guru. I don't understand it, how did it come to this?

 

[bkd]

yoga is to keep ur mind getting destracted and tahtt what we need to do to be able to do path

 

[max314]

Yoga is exercise.

And Sikkhism isn't about the "us and them" philosphy. It's simply the "us" philosophy.

If something is good, then it's good. If something is bad, then it's bad.

Simple as.

 

[max314]

Sikh Dharma is involved in white majic excercises to make contacts with spirits and seek powers. That is what it is called entangling with Maya.

White, black, pink, purple...the point is that indulging in this form of magic/spirituality/enlightenment in order to "seek powers" is - as far as my interpretation of gurbani goes - selfish, wrong, and based around an obsession with mastering the realm of maya as opposed to submitting to the Will of God.

This is only my opinion, of course, but I have met a lot of self-proclaimed amridhari Sikkhs who believe that their purpose is to 'contact the spirit world' and become 'enlightened', etc. My response is simply that all they are doing is substituting one form of 'magic' for another. To use you example, from "black" to "white", though any word can be used to label these concepts.

I believe that the pursuit of divine power is both wrong and entirely against the philosophy Guru Nanak Dev Ji was attempting to impart on his fellow man.