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Yogism Yoga To Reach Chauthaa Pada, The Fourth State

Apr 25, 2006
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Yes. My understanding is that ਬਿਚਾਰ is a verb (ਬਿਚਾਰੁ is a noun). So something is to be contemplated, which then eradicates duality. Only Fareed Kote gets this part correct.

What made you pick 4 vedas instead of 4 of something else?
If it's something to be contemplated as a path to God then it must be spiritual knowledge. Hence the four vedas.
 

spnadmin

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Well, I will go back and take a look at that tomorrow. With the Faridkot teeka one can be sure to find shabads mired in the vedas. SGGS is not the culmination of centuries of vedic scriptures.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Well ACHAAR..character has to be tuned first..before Bichaar can enter the picture...and once the achaar is ok..bichaar takes us Out of duality...Making a mountain of a molehill..with the vedas and all being grabbed out of thin air and thrust into this...
Fareedkotee teeka is 110% vedic oriented..those Nirmalas see Vedas in each Gurbani tuk (tongue in cheek)...to them the SGGS is nothing but an end result of the Vedas. period. I usually study it to get the VOCABULARY...it doenst have the SPIRIT of GURU NANAK..entirley my own observation
 

Luckysingh

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Well ACHAAR..character has to be tuned first..before Bichaar can enter the picture...and once the achaar is ok..bichaar takes us Out of duality...Making a mountain of a molehill..with the vedas and all being grabbed out of thin air and thrust into this...
Fareedkotee teeka is 110% vedic oriented..those Nirmalas see Vedas in each Gurbani tuk (tongue in cheek)...to them the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is nothing but an end result of the Vedas. period. I usually study it to get the VOCABULARY...it doenst have the SPIRIT of GURU NANAK..entirley my own observation
I have to agree, it makes much more sense !!
Thanks
 
Apr 25, 2006
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ਚਾਰ ਅਚਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਉਰਝਾਇ ॥੨॥

Gyani ji, how would you translate this?

 
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Nov 23, 2010
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The comments I've read in this thread generally dismissing the merit of yoga in Sikhi betray, quite frankly, the position of one who has never really tasted the experience. Discriptions like yoga is 'sitting in a corner, twiddling your thumbs, or sitting in silly postures, indulging in vain self-exploration rather than engaging in the real world' are the observations of one who has not genuinely tried Sikh Kundalini Yoga. I am not a salesman for this science, nor am I a member of Yogi Bhajan's community. I am simply saying, if we took the time to actually taste this science, rather than falling back on pat, uninformed dismissals of all yoga as self-indulgent, selfish and futile, we would learn that this Kundalini Yoga, is really just a art of extending our prayer and devotion into physical discipline. Done properly, it clears the mind, heightens awareness, strengthens the spine and body, teaches stamina and endurance, and, yes, might even give a feeling of transcendant joy and spiritual ecstasy.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hinduism/39509-yoga-reach-chauthaa-pada-fourth-state.html
I guess I have the right to dismiss Yogi Bhajans brand of Kundalini Yoga. I went through the so called teacher training, as P.T. Barnum Said “there’s a sucker born every minute”. At least I wised up.
For starters there is no such thing as Sikh Kundalini Yoga. There is Kundalini yoga which has its basis in the Tantras and Upanishads ( you might look up books by Swami Satyananda Saraswati )and there is Kundalini Yoga as invented by "Yogi" Bhajan which has its basis in the imagination of Bhajan.
I recommend reading Sikhism and Tantric Yoga by Trilochan Singh. Here’s a link to a free ebook http://www.gurmukhyoga.com/forum/index.php?mode=page&id=1
I got to tell you YB's type of yoga complete B.S. It's not science. Science has methodology. Science has reproducible results. Yogi? Fattest Yogi I ever saw. From the stand point of Kinesiology (real science) his exercises do real and lasting damage to the spine. They don't strengthen it. Ask me, I had to have months of therapy after damaging my low back doing “yoga as taught by yogi Bhajan." I know of many other people with the same problem.
As part of my therapy I was told to take up swimming. So I guess I'm lucky. I love to swim. I find it much more meditative than YB's stupid meditations which by the way are not real meditation either. As a Sikh I find it offensive that he uses passages of the S.G.G.S like "Mantras”, telling students that it's not important to understand the meaning that the vibration of Shabad Guru will change you on a molecular level. “Oh Please.
Guru ji wrote Gurbani in the language of the people so that they could understand and apply to their lives not so it would vibrate their pineal gland or whatever.
“Transcendent joy and spiritual ecstasy.”
Or do you mean Mystic hysteria.
I have no problem with meditation but holding your arms in the air until they ache is not meditive. Some studies suggest that certain type of meditation can lower blood pressure. That's great something that can make you calmer person is helpful but if you’re too wrapped up in it, it becomes an addiction like anything else. That's why Guru ji didn't pass the Guru ship onto Siri Chand.
I don't have any problem with yoga as exercise when it well thought out and appropriate to the level of ability. This is not the case with Kundalini as taught by yogi bhajan.
My personal view on chauthaa pada is that it doesn? do anyone any good if you achieve this state alone meditating. Where it would do the most good is in trying situations involving other people.
 
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Luckysingh

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The comments I've read in this thread generally dismissing the merit of yoga in Sikhi betray, quite frankly, the position of one who has never really tasted the experience. Discriptions like yoga is 'sitting in a corner, twiddling your thumbs, or sitting in silly postures, indulging in vain self-exploration rather than engaging in the real world' are the observations of one who has not genuinely tried Sikh Kundalini Yoga. I am not a salesman for this science, nor am I a member of Yogi Bhajan's community. I am simply saying, if we took the time to actually taste this science, rather than falling back on pat, uninformed dismissals of all yoga as self-indulgent, selfish and futile, we would learn that this Kundalini Yoga, is really just a art of extending our prayer and devotion into physical discipline. Done properly, it clears the mind, heightens awareness, strengthens the spine and body, teaches stamina and endurance, and, yes, might even give a feeling of transcendant joy and spiritual ecstasy.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hinduism/39509-yoga-reach-chauthaa-pada-fourth-state.html
I guess I have the right to dismiss Yogi Bhajans brand of Kundalini Yoga. I went through the so called teacher training, as P.T. Barnum Said “there’s a sucker born every minute”. At least I wised up.
For starters there is no such thing as Sikh Kundalini Yoga. There is Kundalini yoga which has its basis in the Tantras and Upanishads ( you might look up books by Swami Satyananda Saraswati )and there is Kundalini Yoga as invented by "Yogi" Bhajan which has its basis in the imagination of Bhajan.
I recommend reading Sikhism and Tantric Yoga by Trilochan Singh. Here’s a link to a free ebook http://www.gurmukhyoga.com/forum/index.php?mode=page&id=1
I got to tell you YB's type of yoga complete B.S. It's not science. Science has methodology. Science has reproducible results. Yogi? Fattest Yogi I ever saw. From the stand point of Kinesiology (real science) his exercises do real and lasting damage to the spine. They don't strengthen it. Ask me, I had to have months of therapy after damaging my low back doing “yoga as taught by yogi Bhajan." I know of many other people with the same problem.
As part of my therapy I was told to take up swimming. So I guess I'm lucky. I love to swim. I find it much more meditative than YB's stupid meditations which by the way are not real meditation either. As a Sikh I find it offensive that he uses passages of the S.G.G.S like "Mantras”, telling students that it's not important to understand the meaning that the vibration of Shabad Guru will change you on a molecular level. “Oh Please.
Guru ji wrote Gurbani in the language of the people so that they could understand and apply to their lives not so it would vibrate their pineal gland or whatever.
“Transcendent joy and spiritual ecstasy.”
Or do you mean Mystic hysteria.
I have no problem with meditation but holding your arms in the air until they ache is not meditive. Some studies suggest that certain type of meditation can lower blood pressure. That's great something that can make you calmer person is helpful but if you’re too wrapped up in it, it becomes an addiction like anything else. That's why Guru ji didn't pass the Guru ship onto Siri Chand.
I don't have any problem with yoga as exercise when it well thought out and appropriate to the level of ability. This is not the case with Kundalini as taught by yogi bhajan.
My personal view on chauthaa pada is that it doesn? do anyone any good if you achieve this state alone meditating. Where it would do the most good is in trying situations involving other people.
It is very helpful to get some feedback from yourself who has actually encountered the real experience of this type of yoga.
I think that it is good if someone wanting to try the kundalini stuff, can approach it with these feedback points. Because It is better to be prepared and forewarned so that one does not end up being taken for a ride.

It is these types of yoga and yoga arts that send out the wrong message of what it is really supposed to be about.

Before I went into meditation myself, I was also prepared and aware of the false intepretations that you read about.
Therefore, I too was and I still am, quite sure to be not taken for some kind of ride.
I just take out the actual good that I can use to help apply my focus to the Lord. Everything else about 6th senses, chakras and all that, I tend to leave behind by focusing just on the real simran.
This way the meditative experience becomes more pure and loving with the creator and his creation.
It doesn't make it more essential to life, but trying to do good and gurmat in all aspects of living, such as earning, providing and helping are all as equally essential to being a better person and better sikh.
Higher states of consciousness and spirituality can only be attained by having an equal balance of gurmat in every way one conducts their daily living.
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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The Yogis and the Siddhs etc that Guru nanak ji met and wrote about in Siddh Ghhosht were DOING exactly what Yogi Bhajans and all those Sri Chand followers, 3HO types are doing...stressing Yoga and meditation ad nauseum as the ONe and ONLY way to attain HIM...as Linzer has quite rightly pointed out..NOTHING is the One and ONLY WAY or the Right way...Guru nanak ji taught MODERATION...in householders life..in eating, sleeping, in exercise too and in meditation also...Gurmatt is an ALL ROUNDER system to meet HIM...We MUST have a little bit of everything..a little bit of country and a little bit of rock with a dash of bhangra....The Yogis had abandoned their families, their social responsibilities, society, samaaj, EVERYTHING to the exclusion of wandering around and when hungry begging form honest hard working householders which they DENIGRATED as WORTHLESS Humans who would Never attain HIM !! (BUT good enough to feed their begging stomachs)....this HYPOCRACY is whats condemned...GLUTTONS can die from FOOD...while somebody may say FOOD is essential for LIFE....but to treat a GLUTTON..his FOOD has to be stopped. Same way.. ..MOST of those who advocate YOGA in Sikhism are "Yoga Gluttons"....NOT the Way to encourage more Gurmatt.
 

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ਚਾਰ ਅਚਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਉਰਝਾਇ ॥੨॥

Gyani ji, how would you translate this?


Bhagat Ji..
I attempt to answer BOTH your questions...

1. The word CHAR is NOT NUMERAL FOUR. Char as numral four is written with a siharee before Rara.

The Meaning of this tuk of Bhagat Kabir ji as givne below as well.

ਗਾਵੈ ਕੋ ਗੁਣ ਵਡਿਆਈਆ ਚਾਰ ॥ ਗਾਵੈ ਕੋ ਵਿਦਿਆ ਵਿਖਮੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਪਦ ਅਰਥ ਚਾਰ-ਸੁੰਦਰ, ਸੋਹਣੀਆਂ। ਵਿਦਿਆ-ਵਿੱਦਿਆ ਦੁਆਰਾ। ਵਿਖਮੁ-ਕਠਨ, ਔਖਾ। ਵੀਚਾਰੁ- ਗਿਆਨ। ਸ਼ਬਦ 'ਚਾਰ' ਵਿਸ਼ੇਸ਼ਣ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਇਕ-ਵਚਨ ਪੁਲਿੰਗ ਨਾਲ 'ਚਾਰੁ' ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ ਨਾਲ ਜਾਂ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ-ਲਿੰਗ ਨਾਲ 'ਚਾਰ' ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਪਰ ਸ਼ਬਦ 'ਚਾਰਿ' 'ਚਹੁੰ' ਦੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਦਾ ਵਾਚਕ ਹੈ। ਜਿਵੇਂ:- (੧) ਚਾਰਿ ਕੁੰਟ ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਭ੍ਰਮੇ, ਥਕਿ ਆਏ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਸਾਮ। (੨) ਚਾਰਿ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਕਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ। (੩) ਚਚਾ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲ ਗੁਰ ਲਾਗਾ। ਧਨਿ ਧਨਿ ਉਆ ਦਿਨ ਸੰਜੋਗ ਸਭਾਗਾ। ਚਾਰਿ ਕੁੰਟ ਦਹਦਿਸ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਇਓ। ਭਈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤਬ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਇਓ। ਚਾਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ, ਬਿਨਸਿਓ ਸਭ ਦੂਆ। ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਿ ਮਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੂਆ। (੪) ਤਟਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਪਤੀਆਇ। ਚਾਰ ਅਚਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਉਰਝਾਇ ।੨। ਅਰਥ :- ਕੋਈ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਰੱਬ ਦੇ ਸੋਹਣੇ ਗੁਣ ਤੇ ਸੋਹਣੀਆਂ ਵਡਿਆਈਆਂ ਵਰਣਨ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਕੋਈ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਵਿੱਦਿਆ ਦੇ ਬਲ ਨਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਦੇ ਕਠਨ ਗਿਆਨ ਗਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਭਾਵ, ਸ਼ਾਸਤਰ ਆਦਿਕ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਆਤਮਕ ਫ਼ਿਲਾਸਫ਼ੀ ਦੇ ਔਖੇ ਵਿਸ਼ਿਆਂ ਤੇ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ)।

2.

ਚਾਰ ਅਚਾਰ, ਰਹੇ ਉਰਝਾਇ ॥੨॥ Char is Character..Achaar is OPPOSITE of CHAAR... Bad Character
Good deeds..Bad deeds..Paa Punn etc are ALL SAME..People get ENTANGLED in tis web..whats Good deed..whats Bad deed..Whats good Character..whats Bad character..whats paap whats punn..THESE are all the SAME.
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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ਚਾਰਬਿਚਾਰਬਿਨਸਿਓਸਭਦੂਆ
चार बिचार बिनसिओ सभ दूआ ॥
Cẖār bicẖār binsi▫o sabẖ ḏū▫ā.
By pure lifestyle and meditation, all duality is removed.
ਸਰੇਸ਼ਟ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਸਮੂਹ ਦਵੈਤ-ਭਾਵ ਦੂਰ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ।
ਚਾਰ = ਸੁੰਦਰ। ਬਿਚਾਰ = ਵਿਚਾਰਾਂ। ਦੂਆ = ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਵ, ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ ਪਿਆਰ।ਵਿਚਾਰ ਸੁਅੱਛ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ ਪਿਆਰ ਸਾਰਾ ਹੀ ਮੁੱਕ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।

SEE the word CHAR is NOT FOUR..it means SUNDER...BEAUTIFUL....CHARACTER !!! Chaar-Achaar.( A-chaar is OPPOSITE of CHAAR ..means BAD deeds affecting Character).acharan..our daily lifes deeds make us beautiful...of GOOD CHARACTER. The VEDAS dont come into the picture at all....not by a zillion light years..
 
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Nov 23, 2010
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It is very helpful to get some feedback from yourself who has actually encountered the real experience of this type of yoga.
I think that it is good if someone wanting to try the kundalini stuff, can approach it with these feedback points. Because It is better to be prepared and forewarned so that one does not end up being taken for a ride.

It is these types of yoga and yoga arts that send out the wrong message of what it is really supposed to be about.

I regard it like a vaccination. I won't be subject to that particular strain of stupidity again.
I feel YB was free to invent what ever he wanted to. He saw the opportunity and took it but He should'nt have tried it give validity by connecting with Sikhi. He created a cult that is neither Sikh or Yogic. It's a shame so many people confuse this with Sikhi .
As for meditation I enjoy Naam Simran in the company of the Sadh Sangat. I feel more connected to the Sangat and I suppose though the same channel more connected to the creator. I don't think it gives me any magic powers to overcome my vices. I do that through conscience effort.
 

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