Will You Marry A Girl With A Beard?

[sarbjit_01]

not for me
i really really dont care what my future husband looks like
i havent set any standards
and im not saying that i have no ego whatsoever because i certainly do
but i try to see whats inside rather than whats outside
just like a caterpillars cucoon, its ugly from the outside, but if you wait long enough then you get to see what comes out of it, and you get to see that beautiful butterfly emerge
if you dont give the right conditions (love) to that cuccon, then the butterfly inside it wont be born

 

[kds1980]

We must also agree that no matter how much a person says that his/her other half does not have to be good looking; there is definitely a certain standard that is expected to be met at least.

again a very good point your and my thinking is quite similar

 

[Jasmeet kaur]

Hair is a divine gift of god.If anyone not except girl with beard than this is his fault not girls fault.then he is not suitable for her.

 

[max314]

Hair is a divine gift of god.

So are fingernails, but we don't have a problem chopping them off on a regular basis. They, too, are natural keratin growths from our bodies. But, somehow, they're not considered as divine.

If anyone not except girl with beard than this is his fault not girls fault.then he is not suitable for her.

Well, that goes without saying. If one doesn't like the other than they are, by definition, unsuitable for one another.

 

[MKAUR1981]

Sat Sri Akal

Yes, but that image hasn't come from the ether. Women are naturally less hairy than men, and for that specific reason.

Yes, naturally women are less hairy than men. But in this topic we are talking about those with excess facial hair due to an imbalance in hormones. Also regardless of women being less hairy, I think media has created this image of no hair whatsoever for women e.g. upper lips, chins, sideburns

That depends on two things:

1. - What your interpretation of the Granth Sahib is.

I’m sorry I don’t think I used any quotes from the Guru Granth Sahib as I’m am still learning. What I said what based on my personal thoughts and opinions. (I know that removing hair from any part of your body after taking Amrit is a taboo – Kurehat) As a learner yet to learn a lot about Sikhism I try to “please” God. Pleasing by trying to live according to the beliefs of Sikhism.. (Trust me I have a long way to go yet)

2. - Whether you believe that a featureless, formless, timeless, self-existent, fearless, hateless God who is beyond all human constructs is limited by such human emotions as 'being pleased'.

As a recovering alcoholic and reformed drug addict I think I have made some changes not only for my health (the obvious reason) but by trying to live according to the beliefs of Sikhism. Maybe I’m wrong in thinking I have to please God – and I’m sorry if that’s so- but it’s with the belief I have in God that has enabled me to make these changes in life. Am I wrong in saying the Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not teach us the way to live? Are you saying that that there is no wrong or right?

Well, I'm glad that you and your step mother are happy.

Not that this point was up for debate…but my stepmum is an Amritdhari but I am not. Actually I’m very far from it…..but if you want I can always send you some ladoo if you are really that glad for us!!!

The world changes. Over half a century of globalisation, the world changes.

Errr, thank you for stating the obvious…. Not that you contributed any thoughts on what I said. It relates back to my first point where I feel media has created this image of how women should “look”. The Guru Granth Sahib has not changed over half a century of globalisation. So does that mean that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sikh Rehat Maryada is outdated and should change accordingly?

I suppose you'd just have to see what 'pleases God' :}{}{}:

I think I’ve explained MY reasons about “pleasing” God. You and others may disagree, and as I said before I may be wrong for believing this, but this is the belief that has made ME make changes in my life for the better.

Would that not be interfering with God's Will, according to you?

I don’t think I mentioned anything about interfering with God’s will. Just offering some advice to those who are suffering from excess facial hair and would like to do something about it.:u):

 

[max314]

Sat Sri Akal

Greetings, fellow Earthling

Yes, naturally women are less hairy than men. But in this topic we are talking about those with excess facial hair due to an imbalance in hormones. Also regardless of women being less hairy, I think media has created this image of no hair whatsoever for women e.g. upper lips, chins, sideburns

Actually, the ideal of a hairless woman is something that dates back thousands of years. The media is just the most recent incarnation of an age-old vision of women that is as old as humanity itself. Did you know that in ancient Greece - and even as far back as ancient Egypt - a woman with no hair on her body was considered to be the absolute epitomy of beauty?

Ergo, it's not some media conspiracy. It's our own natures. When we admit it, of course

I’m sorry I don’t think I used any quotes from the Guru Granth Sahib as I’m am still learning.

What I said what based on my personal thoughts and opinions. (I know that removing hair from any part of your body after taking Amrit is a taboo – Kurehat) As a learner yet to learn a lot about Sikhism I try to “please” God. Pleasing by trying to live according to the beliefs of Sikhism.. (Trust me I have a long way to go yet)

Firstly, I doubt that a being as omnipotent and transcendent as the God depicted in Granthian scriptures is one that requires to be 'pleased' by us petty humans. Furthermore, I doubt this God is one who gets flustered about not having body hair. It wouldn't be like a God "without hate" and "without fear" to be bothered by such things.

Further still, an entity that is so beyond being anything near human wouldn't even have emotions like we have (our emotions are merely the effect of survival insticts, which God would never need).

I don't want you to feel that I am in any way attacking what you might happen to believe in, but I do encourage that you at least keep an open mind and postulate on this.

By the way, where did the Tenth Master write about how hair shouldn't be cut? The only gurbani citation about hair that I can find is the following:

"kabeer preeti ik siau keey aan dubhidhaa jaai; bhaavey laambe kes karu bhaavey gharari mundaai"

(Kabir, when you are in love with the One God, duality and alienation depart. You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald.)

~ KABIR ~

Guru Granth Sahib, p. 1365​

As a recovering alcoholic and reformed drug addict I think I have made some changes not only for my health (the obvious reason) but by trying to live according to the beliefs of Sikhism. Maybe I’m wrong in thinking I have to please God – and I’m sorry if that’s so- but it’s with the belief I have in God that has enabled me to make these changes in life. Am I wrong in saying the Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not teach us the way to live? Are you saying that that there is no wrong or right?

Firstly, I'd like to congratulate you on your achievement You've done a wonderful thing, and I hope you continue to do what makes you feel fulfilled and satisfied with your life.

We are nevertheless talking about, as you phrased it, "trying to live according to the beliefs of Sikkhism". In other words, we are focussing on the prose and purpose of gurbani and, for that, I refer you to my citation above in which the keeping of hair does little to "please God" as far as the Gurus are concerned.

Not that this point was up for debate…but my stepmum is an Amritdhari but I am not. Actually I’m very far from it…..but if you want I can always send you some ladoo if you are really that glad for us!!!

I appreciate the gesture :}{}{}:

Errr, thank you for stating the obvious…. Not that you contributed any thoughts on what I said. It relates back to my first point where I feel media has created this image of how women should “look”. The Guru Granth Sahib has not changed over half a century of globalisation. So does that mean that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sikh Rehat Maryada is outdated and should change accordingly?

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib is timeless. It's the only timeless text that the Sikkhs have or need or should ever want.

The Rehit Maryada? Its timelessness is very much debateable.

I think I’ve explained MY reasons about “pleasing” God. You and others may disagree, and as I said before I may be wrong for believing this, but this is the belief that has made ME make changes in my life for the better.

In the end, that's all that counts.

I don’t think I mentioned anything about interfering with God’s will. Just offering some advice to those who are suffering from excess facial hair and would like to do something about it.:u):

Like trimming it, perhaps?

I hope you realise that any time anyone ever talks about "doing something about" anything, you can argue that it's against God's Will.

But gurbani says that nothing can ever happen outside the Will of God.

Ergo, if you choose to trim your hair, it's only because it's God's Will (i.e. all the events leading up to that choice are because of God).

:ice:

 

[MKAUR1981]

Greetings, fellow Earthling

Hello to you too... again.

Ergo, it's not some media conspiracy. It's our own natures. When we admit it, of course

True, it our own natures. But you have to admit that media does play a part in this portraying women and what they call “beauties”and trust me it’s not going to be a women with excess facial hair.

By the way, where did the Tenth Master write about how hair shouldn't be cut?

As far as I am aware there is nowhere in the Guru Granth Sahib that mentions the hair should or should not be cut, but as most of us know it is a requirement when one becomes and Amritdhari, or is trying to. On this note is the fact cutting of hair forbidden in our Rehat Maryada?

The Rehit Maryada? Its timelessness is very much debateable

The only gurbani citation about hair that I can find is the following:

"kabeer preeti ik siau keey aan dubhidhaa jaai; bhaavey laambe kes karu bhaavey gharari mundaai"​

(Kabir, when you are in love with the One God, duality and alienation depart. You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald.)​

~ KABIR ~​

Guru Granth Sahib, p. 1365​

Thank you for this quote.

I don't want you to feel that I am in any way attacking what you might happen to believe in, but I do encourage that you at least keep an open mind and postulate on this.

I hope I don’t come across like that. As I said before I may well be wrong, and I am still learning yet only the basics of Sikhism. Although I was born in a Sikh family, I don’t call myself a Sikh for that reason. I am one for keeping an open mind. Live and let live.

I appreciate the gesture :}{}{}:

You’re more than welcome for ladoo at my place whenever!!!

I hope you realise that any time anyone ever talks about "doing something about" anything, you can argue that it's against God's Will.

But gurbani says that nothing can ever happen outside the Will of God.

Ergo, if you choose to trim your hair, it's only because it's God's Will (i.e. all the events leading up to that choice are because of God).

I’m not sure if I agree or disagree with this one…..
Disagree because it means that we are a mere robots that God has mapped our lives out for us. So if I decide to have a drink tonight and smoke pot is this the will of God. Does he want me to get {censored}ed and stoned?
Agree because it doesn’t make me feel so bad about my haircut…..God willed it. :}{}{}:

 

[Bijla Singh]

Mr. Max, once again you have shown your ignorance about Sikhi and Rehat. There are numerous references in accepted Sikh scriptures regarding keeping hair. But first I shall address your misinterpreted Gurbani tuk.

ਭਾਵੈਲਾਂਬੇਕੇਸਕਰੁਭਾਵੈਘਰਰਿਮੁਡਾਇ॥25॥
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25|| (SGGSJ, Ang 1365)

The Shabad above is directly related to the previous Saloaks. The topic Gurbani is discussing in these saloaks is worldly attachment. The Shabads clearly explain that people had abandoned remembering God and only concentrated in worldly rituals which were far from the love of God. The Saloak is of Bhagat Kabeer Ji which means that during the times of Bhagat Ji there was no Khalsa Panth and therefore, this Shabad was directed towards someone else. There were two major ways preached to reach God: put ashes in hair and keep them matted and shaving the head. Both ways contradicted each other and failed to guide the humanity. The Shabad is directed towards those who kept matted hair, put ashes in them and let the hair become knots and those who shaved or plucked their hair. Both disrecpected hair and paid no attention to spiritual enlightenment which is why Bhagat Ji says that it doesn’t matter whether you shave or keep hair, nothing will be achieved. Bhagat Ji is saying that without a proper guidance from Guru, and love of God one cannot reach the goal. The true way is to treat this body as a gift and properly take care of every part of the body including hair. Altering the God created form is prohibited in Sikhi. Guru Gobind Singh Ji also spoke against the ritual of keeping matted hair

ਜਟਾਨਸੀਸਧਾਰਿਹੋਂ॥ਨਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਕਾਸੁਧਾਰਿਹੋਂ॥
I do not wear matted hair on my head, nor do I put rings in my ears. (Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Akal Ustat)

ਕੇਸਾਕਾਕਰਿਚਵਰੁਢੁਲਾਵਾਚਰਣਧੂੜਿਮੁਖਿਲਾਈ॥1॥ਰਹਾਉ॥
I make my hair into a fan, and wave it over them; I apply the dust of their feet to my face. ||1||Pause|| (SGGSJ, Ang 749)

ਤੇਰੇਬੰਕੇਲੋਇਣਦੰਤਰੀਸਾਲਾ॥ਸੋਹਣੇਨਕਜਿਨਲੰਮੜੇਵਾਲਾ॥
Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. Your nose is so graceful, and Your hair is so long. (SGGSJ, Ang 566)
ਸਗਲਪਦਾਰਥਅਸਟਸਿਧਿਨਾਮਮਹਾਰਸਮਾਹਿ॥ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨਭਏਕੇਸਵਾਸੇਜਨਹਰਿਗੁਣਗਾਹਿ॥4॥
All wealth, and the eight miraculous spiritual powers are in the supremely sublime essence of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. Those humble beings, with whom the beautifully-haired Lord is thoroughly pleased, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||4|| (SGGSJ, Ang 203)

In the above verse the word "Kesva" is used for Waheguru with long hair. More:
ਆਉਕਲੰਦਰਕੇਸਵਾ॥
Come, O Lord of beautiful hair. (SGGSJ, Ang 1167)

ਲੋਭਲਹਰਿਅਤਿਨੀਝਰਬਾਜੈ॥ਕਾਇਆਡੂਬੈਕੇਸਵਾ॥1॥
ਸੰਸਾਰੁਸਮੁੰਦੇਤਾਰਿਗੁੋਬਿੰਦੇ॥ਤਾਰਿਲੈਬਾਪਬੀਠੁਲਾ॥1॥ਰਹਾਉ॥
The tidal waves of greed constantly assault me. My body is drowning, O Lord. ||1|| Please carry me across the world-ocean, O Lord of the Universe. Carry me across, O Beloved Father. ||1||Pause|| (SGGSJ, Ang 1196)

Other Texts


ਜਬ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਸਬ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ।ਤਬ ਹੀ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹਿ ਬਨਾਈ।
ਤਨ ਇਸ ਕੇ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਜੁ ਦੀਨੋ। ਸੋ ਇਹ ਤਨ ਸਿੰਗਾਰਹਿ ਕੀਨੋ।
ਦਾੜ੍ਹਾ ਮੁਛ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਬਨਾਈ।ਹੈ ਇਹ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ੍ਹ ਜਿਹ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਰਜ਼ਾਈ।
ਮੇਟਿ ਰਜ਼ਾਇ ਜੁ ਸੀਸ ਮੁੰਡਾਵੈ। ਕਹੁ ਤੇ ਜਗ ਕੈਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਵੈ।…
ਬਸਨ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਾਰੀ ਹੈ ਜੈਸੇ। ਕੇਸਨ ਬਿਨ ਨਰ ਹੋਇ ਤੈਸੇ। (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਦੇਸਾ ਸਿੰਘ)

ਨਾਈ ਦਾ ਹਥ ਸੀਸ ਚਿਹਰੇ ਨ ਲਗਣਾ ਪਾਵੈ।
ਕੇਸਾਧਾਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਪੰਥ ਕਹਾਵੈ।
ਪਾਹੁ ਲਾਇਕੇ ਰੰਗ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਇਆ।
ਪਾਹੁ ਬਣੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ, ਰੰਗ ਕੇਸ ਬਣਾਇਆ।
(ਬੰਸਾਵਲੀਨਾਮਾ, ਭਾਈ ਕੇਸਰ ਸਿੰਘ)

ਜੂੜਾ ਸੀਸ ਕੇ ਮੱਧ ਭਾਗ ਮੈਂ ਰਾਖੇ, ਔਰ ਪਾਗ ਬੜੀ ਬਾਂਧੇ,ਕੇਸ ਢਾਂਪ ਰਖੇ,
ਕੰਘਾ ਦਵੈ ਕਾਲ ਕਰੇ, ਪਾਗ ਚੁਨ ਕੇ ਬਾਂਧੇ। (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾਭਾਈਦਇਆਸਿੰਘ)

ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਸਿਖ ਦੇਹੀ ਦੇ ਰੋਮ ਨ ਲੁਹਾਏ । ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਸਿਖ ਕੇਸਾਂ ਦੀ ਪਾਲਣਾ ਕਰੈ।ਦੋ ਵਕਤ ਕੰਘਾ ਹੋਵੈ।.....
ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਸਿਖ ਕੇਸ ਮੁਹਰ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨੀ ਸਿਖੀ ਦੀ ਜਾਣੇ। ਜੋ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਬਿਨਾ ਰਖੇ, ਸੋ ਭੰਡ ਭਗਤੀਆ ਜਾਣਨਾ ਨਿਗੁਰਾ। (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਚਉਪਾ ਸਿੰਘ)

ਚਾਰ ਤਨਖਾਹਾਂ ਵੱਡੀਆ ਹਨ:
ੳ) ਕੇਸਾਂ ਦੀ ਬੇਅਦਬੀ।
ਅ) ਤਮਾਕੂ ਵਰਤਨਾ।
ੲ) ਪਰਾਈ ਇਸਤਰੀ ਦਾ ਭੋਗ ਕਰਨਾ।
ਸ) ਕੁੱਠਾ ਖਾਣਾ।
(ਗੁਰਮਤਸੁਧਾਕਰ, ਪੰਨਾ 536-37)

Thus it is clear that keeping hair is mandatory in Sikhi and cutting or trimming hair is a cardinal sin. Guru Rakha

 

[sharonjheeta]

I think that this topic is really boring.............for years we have been going to gurdwara and the only thing we seem to get told is not to cut hair! I feel that this is the most minutia of details but yet it seems to dominate other aspects of th religion. Sikhism is a beautiful philosophy, we are taught to love everyone and accept everyone as equal, thats what makes it so cool.......surely if Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh accepted all castes as equal and all religions as equal, they will accept the haired and the hairless? Come on.....lets concentrate on the important stuff. I have no problem with girls not removing hair if its their choice but I do have a problem with people thinking that they are more spiritual because they do so...........that is wrong!

 

[Sandeepc20]

I know a lot of guys who liked me when i did not keep my hair. When i kept my hair they still did like me, but they all commented one thing to me. You are not being yourself and God does not need u to do that. They did say they were proud of me and encouraged me to stay true to my religion, they just said you wont be any less of a sikh if u cut ur hair.. At first i thought they were just making excuses so that i would look better. And that could be the reason, but i got mad and didnt change. I kept my hair and i only Got more friends and more guys who said they liked me. I realised that beauty is within the eyes of the beholder and it is your peronality that wins some1 not ur looks. A person who goes for jus looks is fake and not true to themself. If you want to keep ur hair keep it, if not then dont, but dont let anybody elses opinion change you because would u tell a guy to change the way they look to please you. If someone finds u unsuitable for them is only because they are unsuitable for you. Nothing else. I believe, In time everyone finds their own perfect heavenly match, no matter how u are from the outside. Im not a guy, but I think a true guy or girl(not all guys) in time understands that looks are nothing, its the love, bond and a connection which counts.

 

[sikh78910]

mr bijla singh, sorry to break it to u but max is one of the few people that actually talk sense on this forum. my grans got a beard and it does not look natural. hair on the head, yes, bearded woman, i think not... although she could make some serious money in a freak show:rofl!!: only jokin i still love her. whenever i get a haircut i feel upset i dont know why, but when i take hair off my face or bleach it fels ok. thats me personally though n prob has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Bijla Singh]

I don't care about anyone's personal opinions but max clearly stated that Sikhi does not require one to keep hair which I proved wrong by showing references. It is your choice not to follow Sikhi and stay in the illusion of maya and get false temporary satisfactions. Women with hair is not unnatural. It depends on many factors: hormones, milk, genetics etc. Once again, your life is your choice but doesn't mean it is Sikhi. Guru Rakha

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<<<ਭਾਵੈਲਾਂਬੇਕੇਸਕਰੁਭਾਵੈਘਰਰਿਮੁਡਾਇ॥25॥
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25|| (SGGSJ, Ang 1365)
The Shabad above is directly related to the previous Saloaks. The topic Gurbani is discussing in these saloaks is worldly attachment. The Shabads clearly explain that people had abandoned remembering God and only concentrated in worldly rituals which were far from the love of God. The Saloak is of Bhagat Kabeer Ji which means that during the times of Bhagat Ji there was no Khalsa Panth and therefore, this Shabad was directed towards someone else. There were two major ways preached to reach God: put ashes in hair and keep them matted and shaving the head. Both ways contradicted each other and failed to guide the humanity. The Shabad is directed towards those who kept matted hair, put ashes in them and let the hair become knots and those who shaved or plucked their hair. Both disrecpected hair and paid no attention to spiritual enlightenment which is why Bhagat Ji says that it doesn’t matter whether you shave or keep hair, nothing will be achieved. Bhagat Ji is saying that without a proper guidance from Guru, and love of God one cannot reach the goal. The true way is to treat this body as a gift and properly take care of every part of the body including hair. Altering the God created form is prohibited in Sikhi. Guru Gobind Singh Ji also spoke against the ritual of keeping matted hair>>>>

Dear Bijla Singh ji.. once again you have quoted just one line..
let us read few preceding lines and a few lines after that..

kbIr qw isau pRIiq kir jw ko Twkuru rwmu ]​

​

​

(1365-14, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)​

Kabeer, be in love with only that one, whose Master is the Lord.​

pMifq rwjy BUpqI Awvih kauny kwm ]24]​

​

​

(1365-15, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)​

The Pandits, the religious scholars, kings and landlords - what good is love for them? ||24||​

kbIr pRIiq iek isau kIey Awn duibDw jwie ]​

​

​

(1365-15, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)​

Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.​

BwvY lWby kys kru BwvY Grir mufwie ]25]​

​

​

(1365-16, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)​

You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||​

kbIr jgu kwjl kI koTrI AMD pry iqs mwih ]​

​

​

(1365-16, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)​

Kabeer, the world is a room filled with black soot; the blind fall into its trap.​

hau bilhwrI iqn kau pYis ju nIkis jwih ]26]​

​

​

(1365-17, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)​

I am a sacrifice to those who are thrown in, and still escape. ||26||​

as i can see from the text. kabeer ji is talking abt one ness with God irrerspective of our external features....

quite different from what you interpreted as a single line...

you actually chose the exact line which proves that external symbolism are not "the" path to God...


<<<ਕੇਸਾਕਾਕਰਿਚਵਰੁਢੁਲਾਵਾਚਰਣਧੂੜਿਮੁਖਿਲਾਈ॥1॥ਰਹਾਉ॥
I make my hair into a fan, and wave it over them; I apply the dust of their feet to my face. ||1||Pause|| (SGGSJ, Ang 749)>>>>

sUhI mhlw 5 ]​

​

​

(748-19)​

Soohee, Fifth Mehl:​

pMnw 749​

BwgTVy hir sMq qum@wry ijn@ Gir Dnu hir nwmw ]​

​

​

(749-1, sUhI, mÚ 5)​

Your Saints are very fortunate; their homes are filled with the wealth of the Lord's Name.​

prvwxu gxI syeI ieh Awey sPl iqnw ky kwmw ]1]​

​

​

(749-1, sUhI, mÚ 5)​

Their birth is approved, and their actions are fruitful. ||1||​

myry rwm hir jn kY hau bil jweI ]​

​

​

(749-2, sUhI, mÚ 5)​

O my Lord, I am a sacrifice to the humble servants of the Lord.​

kysw kw kir cvru Fulwvw crx DUiV muiK lweI ]1] rhwau ]​

​

​

(749-2, sUhI, mÚ 5)​

I make my hair into a fan, and wave it over them; I apply the dust of their feet to my face.
||1||Pause||​

jnm mrx duhhU mih nwhI jn praupkwrI Awey ]​

​

​

(749-3, sUhI, mÚ 5)​

Those generous, humble beings are above both birth and death.​

jIA dwnu dy BgqI lwiein hir isau lYin imlwey ]2]​

​

​

(749-3, sUhI, mÚ 5)​

They give the gift of the soul, and practice devotional worship; they inspire others to meet
the Lord. ||2||​

scw Amru scI pwiqswhI scy syqI rwqy ]​

​

​

(749-4, sUhI, mÚ 5)​

True are their commands, and true are their empires; they are attuned to the Truth.​

scw suKu scI vifAweI ijs ky sy iqin jwqy ]3]​

​

​

(749-4, sUhI, mÚ 5)​

True is their happiness, and true is their greatness. They know the Lord, to whom they
belong. ||3||​

pKw PyrI pwxI Fovw hir jn kY pIsxu pIis kmwvw ]​

​

​

(749-5, sUhI, mÚ 5)​

I wave the fan over them, carry water for them, and grind corn for the humble servants of
the Lord.​

nwnk kI pRB pwis bynµqI qyry jn dyKxu pwvw ]4]7]54]​

​

​

(749-5, sUhI, mÚ 5)​

Nanak offers this prayer to God - please, grant me the sight of Your humble servants.
||4||7||54||​

this shabd is clearly a prayer to God for getting belessing of being in Satsangat.... and Guru ji expresses that how we should treat other beings who are truly dedicated to God's service

<<<ਤੇਰੇਬੰਕੇਲੋਇਣਦੰਤਰੀਸਾਲਾ॥ਸੋਹਣੇਨਕਜਿਨਲੰਮੜੇਵਾਲਾ॥
Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. Your nose is so graceful, and Your hair is so long. (SGGSJ, Ang 566)>>>

this is the complete text... and the page is 567

vfw swihbu hY Awip AlK Apwrw ]6]​

​

​

(567-8, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

The Great Lord Master is unfathomable and infinite. ||6||​

qyry bMky loiex dMq rIswlw ]​

​

​

(567-9, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful.​

sohxy nk ijn lµmVy vwlw ]​

​

​

(567-9, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

Your nose is so graceful, and Your hair is so long.​

kMcn kwieAw suieny kI Fwlw ]​

​

​

(567-9, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

Your body is so precious, cast in gold.​

sovMn Fwlw ik®sn mwlw jphu qusI shylIho ]​

​

​

(567-10, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

His body is cast in gold, and He wears Krishna's mala; meditate on Him, O sisters.​

jm duAwir n hohu KVIAw isK suxhu mhylIho ]​

​

​

(567-10, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

You shall not have to stand at Death's door, O sisters, if you listen to these teachings.​

hMs hMsw bg bgw lhY mn kI jwlw ]​

​

​

(567-11, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

From a crane, you shall be transformed into a swan, and the filth of your mind shall be
removed.​

bMky loiex dMq rIswlw ]7]​

​

​

(567-11, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. ||7||​

qyrI cwl suhwvI mDurwVI bwxI ]​

​

​

(567-11, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

Your walk is so graceful, and Your speech is so sweet.​

kuhkin koiklw qrl juAwxI ]​

​

​

(567-12, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

You coo like a songbird, and your youthful beauty is alluring.​

qrlw juAwxI Awip BwxI ieC mn kI pUrIey ]​

​

​

(567-12, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

Your youthful beauty is so alluring; it pleases You, and it fulfills the heart's desires.​

swrMg ijau pgu DrY iTim iTim Awip Awpu sMDUrey ]​

​

​

(567-12, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

Like an elephant, You step with Your Feet so carefully; You are satisfied with Yourself.​

sRIrMg rwqI iPrY mwqI audku gMgw vwxI ]​

​

​

(567-13, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

She who is imbued with the Love of such a Great Lord, flows intoxicated, like the waters of
the Ganges.​

ibnvMiq nwnku dwsu hir kw qyrI cwl suhwvI mDurwVI bwxI ]8]2]​

​

​

(567-13, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)​

Prays Nanak, I am Your slave, O Lord; Your walk is so graceful, and Your speech is so sweet.
||8||2||​

quite self explanatory.... the reference to hair comes in a totally different context.... long hair doesnot mean uncut hair...or does it ?

also there is a reference to Krishna... so would you take this literally also????

<<<ਸਗਲਪਦਾਰਥਅਸਟਸਿਧਿਨਾਮਮਹਾਰਸਮਾਹਿ॥ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨਭਏਕੇਸਵਾਸੇਜਨਹਰਿਗੁਣਗਾਹਿ॥4॥
All wealth, and the eight miraculous spiritual powers are in the supremely sublime essence of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. Those humble beings, with whom the beautifully-haired Lord is thoroughly pleased, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||4|| (SGGSJ, Ang 203)
In the above verse the word "Kesva" is used for Waheguru with long hair. >>>
<<<More:
ਆਉਕਲੰਦਰਕੇਸਵਾ॥
Come, O Lord of beautiful hair. (SGGSJ, Ang 1167)>>>

Keshav is another name of Krishna.. as i pointed out in the previous verse.. donot take words with literal meanings.. Guru ji used references to Krishna, ram, hari as a symbol for God.... not to express their roop..

doesn't God have no roop that can be comprehended ????

and you talk abt God having long hair..!!!

please read the paudi 16 of Japji .... the page reference is 14..

it has the verses which explain that form, grace, power of God cannot be explained.... the word Nirankar means Formless... so how can guru ji have duality..

in my humble opinion, you are mis interpreting the sentences.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

am surprised that the fonts didn't come correctly..

 

[kds1980]

i think the problem of facial hair on women is much more in western countries than in india.there are no facial hair on women in my family.i think facial.
hair on women is concerned with unnatural diet in the west

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Or perhaps due cold season or another reason could be harmonal imbalences due to be kept in unnatrual enivirnment of supresssion.and too much supression on the name of faith may cause psychological and physicilogical imbalences.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

its a circuitous discussion

we all agree.. excessive hair growth is abnormal...so whatever is abnormal could/should be corrected..

what is harm in getting a treatment....if the person wishes so ?

i donot think it hurts a person's spirituality.

and all the bunkum abt ..beauty in eyes of beholder is of no use..
what looks good..is appreciated and desired.

desire is a human emotion..and however hard we try..we are after all human

 

[Bijla Singh]

Mr. Amar I don’t see how posting the entire Shabad proves me wrong. When Dhur Ki bani was revealed it wasn’t just random but the place and the context mattered. When Guru Sahib went to Banaras and Hardwar, the Bani that was revealed was directed towards hindu philosophy. When Guru Sahib went to Mecca, Dhu Ki bani came and rejected hajj and fasting. Similarly, Bhagat Kabir Ji’s Bani is also not random. For example, when Bhagat Ji talked to Brahmins about caste and varna, Shabad “Gharabh Vaas Meh Kul Nahin Jaatee” was revealed. The first Shabad about keeping hair or cutting them does not refer to Sikhs as Khalsa had not been established at the time. I have already explained who kept hair and how they thought was the way to reach god. I have also clearly explained that without following the true path (which is taught by Guru Sahib only) merely keeping hair is of no significance. Puratan Sau Sakhi also says “Dharay Kes Pahul Bina, Bhekhi Moora Sikh”. Hence, if one thinks just by keeping hair he can reach God then he is on the false path. Only path of Guru Sahib (Rehat, Amrit, keeping Panj kakkar etc) has the power to allow humans to merge with Waheguru.
The second Shabad talks about Satsangat but I pointed out the panktee which refers to Kes. The panktee is of course a metaphor but clearly it shows that “chaur” can only be made if one keeps hair. Long hair means uncut hair. At the time, either one shaved his head or kept matted hair, which was seen as a spiritual path towards god. But Guru Sahib rejected both because both were disrespecting hair, creation of Waheguru.
The third Shabad refers to Sargun saroop of Waheguru. Waheguru created human beings and put Kes on the head for a reason. Waheguru is Nirgun and Sargun at the same time. If Waheguru was to reveal Himself to a spiritual human being, what form would he take? The answer to this question is provided in the Shabad which clearly says that He will have long hair.
Word “kesva” in the Shabads I presented refer to Waheguru not to Krishna. Guru Sahib never revered Krishna, or Ram Chandra. Kesva is Waheguru but if you name your son “Kesav Singh” it doesn’t mean your son becomes God. There is a difference between Ram (God) and Raam Chandra of Ayodehya whose existence has not been proven.

doesn't God have no roop that can be comprehended ????

Waheguru has no roop and all roops (Nirgun and Sargun).

I have very well read JapJi Sahib and other Shabads. I also presented quotes from various accepted Sikh sources which prove that keeping hair is part of Sikh rehat. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[sikh78910]

mr bijla singh references are not the only factor needed in deciding on such an issue as this. If you speak with any good historian they will explain to you that it is the context that must be considered first and makes up at least 50% of the whole issue and solution. I have recently completed my law degree and have learnt that in order to come to a valid conclusion all factors need to be considered and researched thoroughly. You on the other hand mr bijla singh sem to believe that references are the only way to arrive at a conclusion. there are basic guidelines contained in the guru granth sahib but it does not strictly say that to get to sachkhand after the death of the the human form it is nessecary to keep your hair. are all the people who cut their hair going to hell when they die, is this what you are implying? IS THE CUTTING OF HAIR ONE OF THE FIVE EVILS?? I think you will find it is Not. culture has changed and i guarantee you there are hundreds of sikhs who have cut hair who are farrrrr more in touch with god than yourself, or are you perfect? i know sikhs who have darshan constantly and who actually see the unseen who have shorn hair. do you see and hear what they do? do beatifully illuminated shaheeds come to you and speak with you in the misdt of the night? i think you need to accept that you can in fact be wrong sometimes, no disrespect to you,but perhaps if you listened carefully to other peoples opinions and kept an open mind as i do and not let ego come in the way you would realise that you have much to learn as does every human on earth including me. sikh=learner, are you prepared to learn or keep the same closed mindedness that the moghul emporers did out of ego and pride. Noone is perfect and people have different ways of worshipping the same god, you hav no right to judge small petty details when certain people who cut their hair have a better grasp of sikhism than u or I ever will. please do not be one of these people who call themselves sikh who discriminate against one with shorn hair, seperate gurdwarras actually exist soley fo amritdharis in england and australia, amritdharis are holding paaths and not allowing people with shorn hair in. if an angel in disguise as happened oin the gurus times, came to your house with shorn hair would you judge him. open your mind sir, and you will learn a higher form of love and accpetance and acceptance that noone is better than another it is what is on the INSIDE that counts, the love, dedication and purity. ...only god can judge someone and unless you think you're him, you need to chill out and quit the b*tchin. you not better than anyone else in this world, be humble and true and you will reap the rewards. good day and godbless.

 

[Bijla Singh]

Kindly go through the post of max in which he stated that Sikhi does not require one to keep hair. I disagreed and provided references. Sikhi requires one to keep hair and it is part of rehat. and one of the four cardinal sins to cut them.

there are basic guidelines contained in the guru granth sahib but it does not strictly say that to get to sachkhand after the death of the the human form it is nessecary to keep your hair.

I have already addressed this point from Gurbani and other accepted Sikh sources. When one takes Amrit, it is stressed that cutting hair is a bajjar kurehat. It is not necessary but a requirement. If there was no such requirement then why would Bhai Taru Singh give shaheedi? He could’ve cut his hair and gotten all the rewards in exchange but he did not.

are all the people who cut their hair going to hell when they die, is this what you are implying? IS THE CUTTING OF HAIR ONE OF THE FIVE EVILS?? I think you will find it is Not.

I don’t know who is going where. Sikhi doesn’t condemn everyone to hell just on the basis of religion. Heaven and hell both are temporary places where one would go according to their actions and then will be given another life as a chance to merge with Waheguru. Sikhi is the only path to reach Sachkhand.

culture has changed and i guarantee you there are hundreds of sikhs who have cut hair who are farrrrr more in touch with god than yourself, or are you perfect?

This is nothing but a foolish statement. Culture has changed? Which culture? Sikhi itself is a culture and cannot change because it is pure truth and truth stays the same throughout ages. What changes is the understanding of people and their thinking. Those who cut their hair are not Sikhs. I am not comparing anyone to myself to determine who is closer to god.

i know sikhs who have darshan constantly and who actually see the unseen who have shorn hair. do you see and hear what they do? do beatifully illuminated shaheeds come to you and speak with you in the misdt of the night?

Keep your fake stories to yourself. What you are saying is claimed by numerous people who follow dehdharis and pakhandis but without following the path of Guru Nanak Sahib no one can merge with Waheguru. Gursikhs who do naam simran have the capability to see Shaheed Singhs. Some Gursikhs are: Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, Baba Jarnail Singh Ji, Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba Attar Singh Ji, Baba Harnaam Singh Ji Rampur Khera etc.

i think you need to accept that you can in fact be wrong sometimes, no disrespect to you,but perhaps if you listened carefully to other peoples opinions and kept an open mind as i do and not let ego come in the way you would realise that you have much to learn as does every human on earth including me. sikh=learner, are you prepared to learn or keep the same closed mindedness that the moghul emporers did out of ego and pride.

I am not perfect and could be wrong but Sikhi is not wrong. It is you who is close minded and without even knowing me or trying to understand me you have compared me to Mughals. Sikhi is all that matters to me not anyone’s personal beliefs. I am proud to be a Sikh. Perhaps you can spend some time to study the Sikh principles.

Noone is perfect and people have different ways of worshipping the same god, you hav no right to judge small petty details when certain people who cut their hair have a better grasp of sikhism than u or I ever will.

When have I ever judged anyone? When did I say people who cut their hair are inferior to me or will go to hell? You need to open your mind a little bit to understand the implied meanings. I simply stated that Sikhi requires everyone to keep uncut hair. Simple as that. No judgment was passed on others.

please do not be one of these people who call themselves sikh who discriminate against one with shorn hair, seperate gurdwarras actually exist soley fo amritdharis in england and australia, amritdharis are holding paaths and not allowing people with shorn hair in.

I cannot speak on behalf of others and do not represent them. Gurdwaras are supposed to be open for everyone equally but only qualified Amritdhari rehatwaan Gursikhs have the rights to lead the congregation, and conduct religious activities.

if an angel in disguise as happened oin the gurus times, came to your house with shorn hair would you judge him.

I have no hatred towards non-Sikhs and I don’t believe in angels that exist in Hinduism, Islam and Christianity.

open your mind sir, and you will learn a higher form of love and accpetance and acceptance that noone is better than another it is what is on the INSIDE that counts, the love, dedication and purity. ...

In Sikhi it is rehat that counts. Why can’t you accept the fact that you are too weak to follow the rehat of Guru Sahib instead of trying to make excuses? Your life is your choice but don’t define Sikhi based on your personal beliefs.

only god can judge someone and unless you think you're him, you need to chill out and quit the b*tchin. you not better than anyone else in this world, be humble and true and you will reap the rewards. good day and godbless.

Once again, I never judged anyone nor did I state that I am better than others. I stated what Sikhi is. Re-read my post with an open mind. A Sikh follows the Hukam of Guru Sahib and takes Amrit and follows the rehat. A Sikh doesn’t make excuses like “culture has changed” and “inside counts”. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh