Why Sadh Sangat? Why Not Go It Alone?

[findingmyway]

Page 661
ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਰਹੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥ ਭਾਲਿ ਰਹੇ ਹਮ ਰਹਣੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਜੀਵਤਿਆ ਮਰਿ ਰਹੀਐ ॥੫॥੨॥
As long as we are alive, we must keep listening and praising Akaal Purakh. We've been given the chance to do this in life. No-one lives forever, though its been tried, so make it the purpose of your life while you are alive to remain within Chardi Kala.

Page 72
ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਕੈਸੀ ਜਾਣੀਐ ॥ ਜਿਥੈ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੀਐ ॥ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਦੀਆ ਬੁਝਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥੫॥
How do we recognise Sadh sangat? It is where Akaal Purakh's name is constantly remembered. Waheguru has given me this understanding that the sadh sangat is where there is constant endeavour to link with His name.

 

[gurbanicd]

Dear Gurbanicd,

You are absolutely right that WE HAVE TO MAKE REQUEST. This request in our religion in the ARDASS- As guruji says ARDASS is on of the best ways to communicate with Waheguru, and we should always use this tool in all aspects of our life. The humble ardass uttered shall be heard-rest assured. Ardass also is another way of remembering paramatma.
Also you talk about blessed souls (murshid) without whose help one can't reach higher stages. I just wanted to say that nos soul can help you without the hukam of the supreme soul. So why try to catch the ear in a roundabout way when we can hold it straight by requesting (as you say) the help from the supreme paramatma himself. As guruji says : 'jab eh jaane mein kick karta tab lab garabh joon mein phirta' i.e till we believe we are doing something we shall not be free of the birth-death cycle. Similarly Guruji advises us to break free of DUALITY i.e. believing that someone else other than Waheguru can help us. Everything is under his hukam. We all are his slaves. We can't even take a breath without his meher, then how is it possible that someone can help somebody. It is always he who is helping all of us.
Pardon

dearji

1. Ang 373 Line 17 Raag Asa: Guru Arjan Dev
ਖੋਜਤ ਖੋਜਤ ਸੁਨੀ ਇਹ ਸੋਇ ॥
khojath khojath sunee eih soe ||
खोजत खोजत सुनी इह सोइ ॥
By searching and seeking, I have heard this news

1. Ang 373 Line 17 Raag Asa: Guru Arjan Dev
ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਤਰਿਓ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
saadhhasangath bin thariou n koe ||
साधसंगति बिनु तरिओ न कोइ ॥
that without the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, no one swims across

but as per gurbani sangat can be physical, mental,emotional and at spiritual levels.

bhulan chukan di khima

 

[GURSEWAK]

SADHSANGAT IS MUST BECAUSE IF YOU SPEAK WAHEGURU ALLAH RAM IN SINGLE THEN THE WILL BE ONE PERCENT IF YOU SPEAK 1000 PERSONS THEN THE PROFIT WILL BE 1000% YOU KNOW TODAY'S TIME IS MORE THAN 92% IF NOT HUNDRED% GURBANI MESSAGE AWAR KAJ TERE KISE NA KAM MIL SADH SANGAT BHAJ KEWAL NAM . REHRAS IST LINE GURU FATHEH GURSEWAK SINGHikonkaar

 

[japjisahib04]

SADHSANGAT IS MUST BECAUSE IF YOU SPEAK WAHEGURU ALLAH RAM IN SINGLE THEN THE WILL BE ONE PERCENT IF YOU SPEAK 1000 PERSONS THEN THE PROFIT WILL BE 1000% YOU KNOW TODAY'S TIME IS MORE THAN 92% IF NOT HUNDRED% GURBANI MESSAGE AWAR KAJ TERE KISE NA KAM MIL SADH SANGAT BHAJ KEWAL NAM . REHRAS IST LINE GURU FATHEH GURSEWAK SINGHikonkaar

By speaking Waheguru Ram Allah, can we accomplish our mission. Is Waheguru name a magic mantar. Gurbani guides us, 'suchai oh akhiyee behan jo pinda dhoey - mere mechanical repetition does not make you truthful and serve any purpose. It is like, 'jeo kunchar eshnan - the elephant who takes a bath and then rolls back in dust. It is with ecstatic devotion learning the divine wisdom, understanding, creating a body of divine intellect within us and then distributing divine wisdom to all organs and see God in all without any discrimination, then only will be called intellegent. No one can judge who is real saadh. Gurbani clearly tells us, we are (I mean 99% people), 'kartoot pashu ki manas jaat'. Our mission is to eliminate animal briti from us and create a 'durlabh manukh deh - a rare and precious virtues in human body'.
Best regards
Sahni Mohinder

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I have some questions to ask:

1.What truly is Sadh Sangat?
2. Does it only mean fellow beings or could it also mean something else?
3. If it only means being with the fellow beings, then why does Gurbani repeatedly talk about introspection and contemplation which is done alone?

Input from all would be highly appreciated.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Ishna]

Tejwant ji,

In Response to Question 1, 2 and 3:
The following shabad by Guru Nanak appears to give a clear explanation as to what Saadh Sangat is. I have chosen an example by Guru Nanak as there was no Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji when he was composing his banis.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=20&L=15

These lines particularly:

ਲਖ ਸਿਆਣਪ ਜੇ ਕਰੀ ਲਖ ਸਿਉ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਪੁ ॥
Lakẖ si▫āṇap je karī lakẖ si▫o parīṯ milāp.
Even if someone has hundreds of thousands of clever mental tricks, and the love and company of hundreds of thousands of people -

ਬਿਨੁ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਧ੍ਰਾਪੀਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਦੂਖ ਸੰਤਾਪੁ ॥
Bin sangaṯ sāḏẖ na ḏẖarāpī▫ā bin nāvai ḏūkẖ sanṯāp.
still, without the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, he will not feel satisfied. Without the Name, all suffer in sorrow.

and later within same shabad...

ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਖੋਜਿ ਢੰਢੋਲਿਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਖੋਜਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿ ॥
Ŧaribẖavaṇ kẖoj dẖandẖoli▫ā gurmukẖ kẖoj nihāl.
I was seeking and searching for Him throughout the three worlds; then, as Gurmukh, I sought and found Him.


ਸਤਗੁਰਿ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੪॥੧੭॥
Saṯgur mel milā▫i▫ā Nānak so parabẖ nāl. ||4||17||
The True Guru has united me in Union, O Nanak, with that God. ||4||17||

Guru Nanak has specified that the company of other people is nothing, but the Company of the Holy (I interpret this to mean communion with God) is everything.

However, the following shabad specifies the Company of Saints:

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=18&L=12&id=767

Please read the entire shabad as single lines here won't convey whole message.

ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਕੀ ਰੇਣੁ ॥
Bẖā▫ī re sanṯ janā kī reṇ.
O Siblings of Destiny, become the dust of the feet of the humble Saints.


ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਧੇਣੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Sanṯ sabẖā gur pā▫ī▫ai mukaṯ paḏārath ḏẖeṇ. ||1|| rahā▫o.
In the Society of the Saints, the Guru is found. He is the Treasure of Liberation, the Source of all good fortune. ||1||Pause||

But then later in the shabad, there seems to be a contradiction:

ਕਿਉ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁਟੀ ਛੁਟਸੀ ਸਹਜਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
Ki▫o gur bin ṯarikutī cẖẖutsī sahj mili▫ai sukẖ ho▫e.
Without the Guru, how can anyone be released from these three qualities? Through intuitive wisdom, we meet with Him and find peace.

I don't think a contradiction exists here, as I think the rahao line is a statement, not an instruction. You can go to the Society of the Saints, and see that they have found the Guru, and see their good fortune and rewards. But you can't join that Society of the Saints without havng first met the Guru through your own intuitive wisdom, which doesn't come without God's Grace.

Ishna

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tejwant ji,

In Response to Question 1, 2 and 3:
The following shabad by Guru Nanak appears to give a clear explanation as to what Saadh Sangat is. I have chosen an example by Guru Nanak as there was no Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji when he was composing his banis.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=20&L=15

These lines particularly:

ਲਖ ਸਿਆਣਪ ਜੇ ਕਰੀ ਲਖ ਸਿਉ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਪੁ ॥
Lakẖ si▫āṇap je karī lakẖ si▫o parīṯ milāp.
Even if someone has hundreds of thousands of clever mental tricks, and the love and company of hundreds of thousands of people -

ਬਿਨੁ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਧ੍ਰਾਪੀਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਦੂਖ ਸੰਤਾਪੁ ॥
Bin sangaṯ sāḏẖ na ḏẖarāpī▫ā bin nāvai ḏūkẖ sanṯāp.
still, without the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, he will not feel satisfied. Without the Name, all suffer in sorrow.

and later within same shabad...

ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਖੋਜਿ ਢੰਢੋਲਿਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਖੋਜਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿ ॥
Ŧaribẖavaṇ kẖoj dẖandẖoli▫ā gurmukẖ kẖoj nihāl.
I was seeking and searching for Him throughout the three worlds; then, as Gurmukh, I sought and found Him.


ਸਤਗੁਰਿ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੪॥੧੭॥
Saṯgur mel milā▫i▫ā Nānak so parabẖ nāl. ||4||17||
The True Guru has united me in Union, O Nanak, with that God. ||4||17||

Guru Nanak has specified that the company of other people is nothing, but the Company of the Holy (I interpret this to mean communion with God) is everything.

However, the following shabad specifies the Company of Saints:

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=18&L=12&id=767

Please read the entire shabad as single lines here won't convey whole message.

ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਕੀ ਰੇਣੁ ॥
Bẖā▫ī re sanṯ janā kī reṇ.
O Siblings of Destiny, become the dust of the feet of the humble Saints.


ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਧੇਣੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Sanṯ sabẖā gur pā▫ī▫ai mukaṯ paḏārath ḏẖeṇ. ||1|| rahā▫o.
In the Society of the Saints, the Guru is found. He is the Treasure of Liberation, the Source of all good fortune. ||1||Pause||

But then later in the shabad, there seems to be a contradiction:

ਕਿਉ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁਟੀ ਛੁਟਸੀ ਸਹਜਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
Ki▫o gur bin ṯarikutī cẖẖutsī sahj mili▫ai sukẖ ho▫e.
Without the Guru, how can anyone be released from these three qualities? Through intuitive wisdom, we meet with Him and find peace.

I don't think a contradiction exists here, as I think the rahao line is a statement, not an instruction. You can go to the Society of the Saints, and see that they have found the Guru, and see their good fortune and rewards. But you can't join that Society of the Saints without havng first met the Guru through your own intuitive wisdom, which doesn't come without God's Grace.

Ishna

Ishna ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the response with Gurbani quotes but that was not the true intent of my questions. I would like us to go beyond the basic translation of Gurbani and try to understand the metaphors used in it in a much broader sense including Saadh Sangat. After all metaphors have multiple meanings and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is full of them.

Although I thank you for your efforts, but I still feel that none of my questions are answered. Please do not take this as an offence.

Let's see what other members have to pitch in.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Ishna]

Tejwant ji,

I thought this thread was supposed to be grounded in Gurbani (as per snpadmin's reminder to me on page 1 of this discussion), hence my post containing Gurbani, in reply to your "Input from all would be highly appreciated".

Ishna

 

[spnadmin]

Tejwant ji,

I thought this thread was supposed to be grounded in Gurbani (as per snpadmin's reminder to me on page 1 of this discussion), hence my post containing Gurbani, in reply to your "Input from all would be highly appreciated".

Ishna

Thanks Ishna very much. I did indeed ask that this discussion not extrapolate heavily from personal experiences, but try to look at things the other way around.

The thread was a response to another thread about sangat, in which personal experience was sometimes given much weight as the source of wisdom and truth. In spite of the nagging fact that personal experience was also cited as the source of personal frustration and disappointment, in that thread.

Though wisdom and truth are certainly not polar opposites of frustration and disappointment, they are also very different.

Thus, I saw a need for a thread that leaned more on our understanding of the ShabadGuru. Ishna, I think you have contributed some shabads that perhaps others of us also need to consider and discuss along with you.

 

[japjisahib04]

Guru Nanak has specified that the company of other people is nothing, but the Company of the Holy (I interpret this to mean communion with God) is everything.

Ishna Ji

There are almost 350 deras in Punjab some attracts congregation in lakhs, some in thousands whereas other in hundred. Ashtapadhi 8 of sukhmani sahib states, 'man sacha mukh sacha soey avar na paikhai ekus bin koey nanak eh lachan brahmgiani hoey'. Keeping above simple yardstick in my mind, I covered almost 90% of the deras in search of a true saadh. It took me a almost a year. Whereever I went I found nothing but corruption, politics, prostitiuion den except one in Mohali where I found some solace but that too was not interpretating gurbani keeping rahao pankti in mind. Somewhere I was so scared that I couldn't even stay more than half an hours. If you really want to judge them just wait near their dressing room and you will hear kutti de putra, haram zadeh types of baani, and I forget one very cheap and dirty word which dhadheriwala used several times during my visit. I heard him using same during one of his discourse in public also. I wondered if these holier people when cannot enshrine simple virtue of gurbani, 'mith bolda jee oh kadhe na bolai kodha - then are they really holy. After completion my journey I came to the conclusion that when 'you are sincere and want to surrender to His Hukam then no one is more holier than yourself'.


Moreover, despite gurbani stating, 'antar gat teerth mal nao' we will notice that those who don't want to get liberated from the thorn of duality, supersitition, dogmas etc. only visits these deras and dip in their so called teerth places.

Best regards
sahni mohinder

 

[spnadmin]

Is it possible that we should be trying to understand the meaning of sadh sangat from two points of view at the same time? There has been comment that association with the company of the saints, the congregation of the holy, refers to our meeting with the divine in devotion. There has also been the view that sangat as saintly people is another possible meaning. Is it not possible that one experience of sangat (with the divine) is enhanced by another sense of sangat (with devotees)? And that there is no contradiction between the two?

Take a look at these two shabads side by side.

First shabad

This is one complete shabad of the 2 shabads that ishna has linked us to. What does it seem to tell us about sangat? Where is it found? How is it found?

From Sri Raag, Guru Nanak, Ang 20

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 1.
Siree Raag, First Mehl:

ਸੁਣਿ ਮਨ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ ਮਿਲੁ ਵੇਲਾ ਹੈ ਏਹ ॥
Suṇ man miṯar pi▫āri▫ā mil velā hai eh.
Listen, O my mind, my friend, my darling: now is the time to meet the Lord.

ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਜੋਬਨਿ ਸਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਤਬ ਲਗੁ ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਦੇਹ ॥
Jab lag joban sās hai ṯab lag ih ṯan ḏeh.
As long as there is youth and breath, give this body to Him.

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਣ ਕਾਮਿ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਢਹਿ ਢੇਰੀ ਤਨੁ ਖੇਹ ॥੧॥
Bin guṇ kām na āvī dẖėh dẖerī ṯan kẖeh. ||1||
Without virtue, it is useless; the body shall crumble into a pile of dust. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਲੈ ਲਾਹਾ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥॥
Mere man lai lāhā gẖar jāhi.
O my mind, earn the profit, before you return home.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹੀਐ ਹਉਮੈ ਨਿਵਰੀ ਭਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Gurmukẖ nām salāhī▫ai ha▫umai nivrī bẖāhi. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Gurmukh praises the Naam, and the fire of egotism is extinguished. ||1||Pause||

ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਗੰਢਣੁ ਗੰਢੀਐ ਲਿਖਿ ਪੜਿ ਬੁਝਹਿ ਭਾਰੁ ॥
Suṇ suṇ gandẖaṇ gandẖī▫ai likẖ paṛ bujẖėh bẖār.
Again and again, we hear and tell stories; we read and write and understand loads of knowledge,

ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਅਗਲੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਰੋਗੁ ਵਿਕਾਰੁ ॥
Ŧarisnā ahinis aglī ha▫umai rog vikār.
but still, desires increase day and night, and the disease of egotism fills us with corruption.

ਓਹੁ ਵੇਪਰਵਾਹੁ ਅਤੋਲਵਾ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਸਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
Oh veparvāhu aṯolvā gurmaṯ kīmaṯ sār. ||2||
That Carefree Lord cannot be appraised; His Real Value is known only through the Wisdom of the Guru's Teachings. ||2||

ਲਖ ਸਿਆਣਪ ਜੇ ਕਰੀ ਲਖ ਸਿਉ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਪੁ ॥
Lakẖ si▫āṇap je karī lakẖ si▫o parīṯ milāp.
Even if someone has hundreds of thousands of clever mental tricks, and the love and company of hundreds of thousands of people -

ਬਿਨੁ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਧ੍ਰਾਪੀਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਦੂਖ ਸੰਤਾਪੁ ॥
Bin sangaṯ sāḏẖ na ḏẖarāpī▫ā bin nāvai ḏūkẖ sanṯāp.
still, without the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, he will not feel satisfied. Without the Name, all suffer in sorrow.

ਹਰਿ ਜਪਿ ਜੀਅਰੇ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਚੀਨੈ ਆਪੁ ॥੩॥
Har jap jī▫are cẖẖutī▫ai gurmukẖ cẖīnai āp. ||3||
Chanting the Name of the Lord, O my soul, you shall be emancipated; as Gurmukh, you shall come to understand your own self. ||3||

ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਹਿ ਵੇਚਿਆ ਮਨੁ ਦੀਆ ਸਿਰੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
Ŧan man gur pėh vecẖi▫ā man ḏī▫ā sir nāl.
I have sold my body and mind to the Guru, and I have given my mind and head as well.

ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਖੋਜਿ ਢੰਢੋਲਿਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਖੋਜਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿ ॥
Ŧaribẖavaṇ kẖoj dẖandẖoli▫ā gurmukẖ kẖoj nihāl.
I was seeking and searching for Him throughout the three worlds; then, as Gurmukh, I sought and found Him.

ਸਤਗੁਰਿ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੪॥੧੭॥
Saṯgur mel milā▫i▫ā Nānak so parabẖ nāl. ||4||17||
The True Guru has united me in Union, O Nanak, with that God. ||4||17||

Second shabad

Next we can look at the first shabad side by side with this second shabad also from Sri Raag, and on Ang 51 by Guru Arjan Dev ji

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੬ ॥
ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੬ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 5 gẖar 6.
Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl, Sixth House:

ਕਰਣ ਕਾਰਣ ਏਕੁ ਓਹੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਆ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥
Karaṇ kāraṇ ek ohī jin kī▫ā ākār.
The One Lord is the Doer, the Cause of causes, who has created the creation.

ਤਿਸਹਿ ਧਿਆਵਹੁ ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਸਰਬ ਕੋ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥੧॥
Ŧisėh ḏẖi▫āvahu man mere sarab ko āḏẖār. ||1||
Meditate on the One, O my mind, who is the Support of all. ||1||

ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਧਿਆਇ ॥
Gur ke cẖaran man mėh ḏẖi▫ā▫e.
Meditate within your mind on the Guru's Feet.

ਛੋਡਿ ਸਗਲ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਸਾਚਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Cẖẖod sagal si▫āṇpā sācẖ sabaḏ liv lā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Give up all your clever mental tricks, and lovingly attune yourself to the True Word of the Shabad. ||1||Pause||

ਦੁਖੁ ਕਲੇਸੁ ਨ ਭਉ ਬਿਆਪੈ ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਹੋਇ ॥
Ḏukẖ kales na bẖa▫o bi▫āpai gur manṯar hirḏai ho▫e.
Suffering, agony and fear do not cling to one whose heart is filled with the GurMantra.

ਕੋਟਿ ਜਤਨਾ ਕਰਿ ਰਹੇ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਤਰਿਓ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੨॥॥
Kot jaṯnā kar rahe gur bin ṯari▫o na ko▫e. ||2||
Trying millions of things, people have grown weary, but without the Guru, none have been saved. ||2||

ਦੇਖਿ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਸਾਧਾਰੈ ਪਾਪ ਸਗਲੇ ਜਾਹਿ ॥
Ḏekẖ ḏarsan man saḏẖārai pāp sagle jāhi.
Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of the Guru's Darshan, the mind is comforted and all sins depart.

ਹਉ ਤਿਨ ਕੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰਣੈ ਜਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਹਿ ॥੩॥
Ha▫o ṯin kai balihārṇai jė gur kī pairī pāhi. ||3||
I am a sacrifice to those who fall at the Feet of the Guru. ||3||

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਾਚੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਉ ॥
Sāḏẖsangaṯ man vasai sācẖ har kā nā▫o.
In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, the True Name of the Lord comes to dwell in the mind.

ਸੇ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜਿਨਾ ਮਨਿ ਇਹੁ ਭਾਉ ॥੪॥੨੪॥੯੪॥
Se vadbẖāgī nānkā jinā man ih bẖā▫o. ||4||24||94||
Very fortunate are those, O Nanak, whose minds are filled with this love. ||4||24||94||

ਸੇ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜਿਨਾ ਮਨਿ ਇਹੁ ਭਾਉ ॥੪॥੨੪॥੯੪॥॥
Se vadbẖāgī nānkā jinā man ih bẖā▫o. ||4||24||94||
Very fortunate are they O Nanak! who have this love within their mind.


Sahib Singh's vichaar of the second shabad can be found at this link, along with the exposition by G. Singh. In these interpretations the human sangat becomes a source of inspiration and spiritual fortitude.

http://gursoch.blogspot.com/2010/02/three-factors-in-sikhi.html

I am also personally curious whether any of us have had the experience of "sangat" that was able to fortify us through their moral and emotional companionship on this inward journey. So far nothing much positive has been said about the experience of finding and keeping the company of godly people.

 

[sunmukh]

Ek OnKaar Sat Naam
Gurfateh ji

I have some questions to ask:
1.What truly is Sadh Sangat?
2. Does it only mean fellow beings or could it also mean something else?
3. If it only means being with the fellow beings, then why does Gurbani repeatedly talk about introspection and contemplation which is done alone?
Input from all would be highly appreciated.

Thanks & regards
Tejwant Singh

IMHO
1) Saadh Sanghat does not have to have a definitive meaning. Dwelling on terminology in hope of realising the true intent of original authors, is trying to read back into memories of past people. It is not possible. So one can do the next best thing and either accept others opinions or forge ones own. In my opinion, saadh sangat relates to company of virtuous people, and also to company of one's inner spirit/soul - SatGuru.
2) As above.
3) As above - It does not mean only fellow beings. Nature of physical sangat is unknown. The cover does not reveal the contents. One can seek good sangat but what one finds may not be good sangat. Furthermore, one can seek good sangat without any spiritual guide. If one is seeking somewhere to relocate, one seeks an area where there is low crime. When one seeks a school for one's children one of the factors may be how unruly the children are in the school. This is seeking good sangat. However the outcome is not assured. Self-realisation can lead one to meeting Satguru. (satgur sajan milia). Satguru is always there but hidden as a result of worldy attachments. Satguru is pure and untainted. 10th gate, inner-shrine, looking within, intuitive awareness, dealing with 5 evils, being like the lotus that blossoms despite the surrounding mire of the swamp, being dead whilst alive, bowing to Guru, is all about uncovering Satguru from wrappers, and merging with that pure identity.If what Akaal Purakh has planted within the vessel of the human body is no sufficiently pure for one, then any external sangat becomes dubious to say the least.

Thanks for inviting wider and other perspectives.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[japjisahib04]

Is it possible that we should be trying to understand the meaning of sadh sangat from two points of view at the same time? There has been comment that association with the company of the saints, the congregation of the holy, refers to our meeting with the divine in devotion. There has also been the view that sangat as saintly people is another possible meaning. Is it not possible that one experience of sangat (with the divine) is enhanced by another sense of sangat (with devotees)? And that there is no contradiction between the two?

Take a look at these two shabads side by side.


ਬਿਨੁ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਧ੍ਰਾਪੀਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਦੂਖ ਸੰਤਾਪੁ ॥
Bin sangaṯ sāḏẖ na ḏẖarāpī▫ā bin nāvai ḏūkẖ sanṯāp.
still, without the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, he will not feel satisfied. Without the Name, all suffer in sorrow.

ਹਰਿ ਜਪਿ ਜੀਅਰੇ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਚੀਨੈ ਆਪੁ ॥੩॥
Har jap jī▫are cẖẖutī▫ai gurmukẖ cẖīnai āp. ||3||
Chanting the Name of the Lord, O my soul, you shall be emancipated; as Gurmukh, you shall come to understand your own self. ||3||

Sahib Singh's vichaar of the second shabad can be found at this link, along with the exposition by G. Singh. In these interpretations the human sangat becomes a source of inspiration and spiritual fortitude.

http://gursoch.blogspot.com/2010/02/three-factors-in-sikhi.html

I am also personally curious whether any of us have had the experience of "sangat" that was able to fortify us through their moral and emotional companionship on this inward journey. So far nothing much positive has been said about the experience of finding and keeping the company of godly people.

Aman Singh Ji

Saadh in above sabd is divine wisdom and sangat denotes contemplation. that without contemplation on divine wisdom duality cannot be elimnated.

Best regads
sahni mohinder

 

[spnadmin]

japjisahibji

Thank you for your reply

For moderation purposes: . Would you or anyone then be able to explain why there would be a difference of opinion with the way in which Professor Sahib Singh's interpreted differently by the author at the site http://gursoch.blogspot.com/2010/02/three-factors-in-sikhi.html

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਾਚੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਉ ॥ ਸੇ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜਿਨਾ ਮਨਿ ਇਹੁ ਭਾਉ ॥੪॥੨੪॥੯੪॥
Sāḏẖsangaṯ man vasai sācẖ har kā nā▫o. Se vadbẖāgī nānkā jinā man ih bẖā▫o. ||4||24||94||

In Essence: In the company of His devotees, Prabh’s Name abides in the hearts; Nanak says that those who love to live in the company of Saints are fortunate.

As a big step of meeting Guru is taken, a battle within is begun, it is necessary to live in right environment at least for part time because the storm of Maya temptation can hit hard again, that right environment can be a great help, so seek the company of His devotees, in there, Guru - teachings are practiced rightful way and the Creator is kept in the hearts all the time. Who long for Guru - teachings obviously are very fortunate individuals.

ਮਨਿ = ਮਨ ਵਿਚ। ਸਾਚੁ = ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲਾ। ਭਾਉ = ਪ੍ਰੇਮ।੪।

ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਰਿਹਾਂ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਵੱਸ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਉਹ ਬੰਦੇ ਭਾਗਾਂ ਵਾਲੇ ਹਨ, ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ (ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਣ ਦਾ) ਇਹ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਹੈ।੪।੨੪।੯੪।

Enlightened ones can see how badly the world is into negativity of Maya influences; however, it is possible to negate that, Guru advises to remain in touch with His devotees, Sri Raag, Mehla 5

ਕਾਮਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਧਿ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਿ ਮਾਤੇ ਵਿਆਪਿਆ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ ਪਉ ਸੰਤ ਸਰਣੀ ਲਾਗੁ ਚਰਣੀ ਮਿਟੈ ਦੂਖੁ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
Kām kroḏẖ ahaʼnkār māṯe vi▫āpi▫ā sansār. Pa▫o sanṯ sarṇī lāg cẖarṇī mitai ḏūkẖ anḏẖār. ||2||

In Essence: The world is engrossed in lust, anger and conceit; take refuge of Saints in utter humility, your pain and darkness of the mind will be gone.

Outside the company of devotees, lust, anger and conceit are in force with full power, to free from that, the company of His devotees is very important; it is the place where people get drenched in His love; that kind of inspiration is needed. Lust, anger and conceit bring horrible consequences, the company of His devotees inspires the seekers to get rid of all that.

ਕਾਮਿ = ਕਾਮ ਵਿਚ। ਮਾਤੇ = ਮਸਤ। ਵਿਆਪਿਆ = ਜ਼ੋਰ ਪਾਈ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸੰਸਾਰੁ = ਜਗਤ (ਦਾ ਮੋਹ)। ਅੰਧਾਰੁ = ਘੁੱਪ ਹਨੇਰਾ।੨।

ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਬੰਦਿਆਂ ਉਤੇ ਜਗਤ ਦਾ ਮੋਹ ਦਬਾਉ ਪਾਈ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਕਾਮ ਵਿਚ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਵਿਚ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ ਵਿਚ ਮਸਤ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ। (ਇਹਨਾਂ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਬਚਣ ਲਈ, ਹੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪਉ, ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਚਰਨੀਂ ਲੱਗ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਆਸਰਾ ਲਿਆਂ ਅਗਿਆਨਤਾ ਦਾ) ਘੁੱਪ ਹਨੇਰਾ-ਰੂਪ ਦੁੱਖ ਮਿਟ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।੨।

(by http://gursoch.blogspot.com/2010/02/three-factors-in-sikhi.html)

 

[seeker3k]

I have some questions to ask:

1.What truly is Sadh Sangat?
2. Does it only mean fellow beings or could it also mean something else?
3. If it only means being with the fellow beings, then why does Gurbani repeatedly talk about introspection and contemplation which is done alone?

Input from all would be highly appreciated.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Tajwinder Ji,

Very good question. That what I been saying for long time.

Sadh= One who have sadh him self, have total control of himself. The true Sadh will give naam to meditate on. It is also called shabad. That meditation always done alone not in group.
In group we get the motivation when we listen to other’s exp. Each person have his /her own exp in meditaion when they start doing the meditaion. At one stage it is the same experience for all who have reached that stage.

Sadh is also teach one how to do the meditation. It has to be done in such a way that can hep one to become aware of him.

Bani also emphasize on Sat Guru who can bless one with the shabad. If it was not true then Guru couldn’t have said that.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

SpnAdmin ji,

Guru Fateh.

Pardon my ignorance but whoever has translated the Gurbani in English makes no sense according to what is said in the original.

I will put my thoughts in blue:

japjisahibji

Thank you for your reply

For moderation purposes: . Would you or anyone then be able to explain why there would be a difference of opinion with the way in which Professor Sahib Singh's interpreted differently by the author at the site http://gursoch.blogspot.com/2010/02/...-in-sikhi.html

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width=""> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset;"> ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਾਚੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਉ ॥ ਸੇ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜਿਨਾ ਮਨਿ ਇਹੁ ਭਾਉ ॥੪॥੨੪॥੯੪॥
Sāḏẖsangaṯ man vasai sācẖ har kā nā▫o. Se vadbẖāgī nānkā jinā man ih bẖā▫o. ||4||24||94||

In Essence: In the company of His devotees, Prabh’s Name abides in the hearts; Nanak says that those who love to live in the company of Saints are fortunate.

The question arises who are these " His devotees"? Can we call Bill Gates who has helped people of all walks of life in the world over as one of the devotees?
Isn't breeding goodness and sharing with others the true message here?

As a big step of meeting Guru is taken, a battle within is begun, in there, Guru - teachings are practiced rightful way and the Creator is kept in the hearts all the time. Who long for Guru - teachings obviously are very fortunate individuals.

The above again makes no sense and is more blasphemous to our Gurus' teachings than anything else.

What does the author of this translation mean by "As a big step of meeting Guru is taken"? Where is the meeting place? Who is this Guru? Is he a person? A Derawala? Ik Ong kaar is omnipresent. The Source is in all there is.

it is necessary to live in right environment at least for part time because the storm of Maya temptation can hit hard again, that right environment can be a great help, so seek the company of His devotees,

What is the right environment and where is it found? Didn't our Gurus teach us and give us the tools to create the right environment? If we are searching for the right environment rather than creating it, then the concept of Langar is futile where the idea was to have all kinds of people break the bread together and interact. If we are looking for the right environment then all the travels by our Gurus to the distant parts result into naught. The message here is that we should make our mind-Mann the right environment so that even the filthiest places with the scoundrels living there can become the right ones and with our help they can cease to be what they have been and hence can breed goodness within.

More about it later.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

</td></tr></tbody></table>
(by http://gursoch.blogspot.com/2010/02/...-in-sikhi.html)

 

[japjisahib04]

Yes we should make base of our mind divine wisdom -and create 'manukh durlabh dey' the precious human body by hardwork within us to accomplish the karz entrusted to us.
Since Gurbani is universal, without any discrimination and is for everyone thus if we interpret that it refers to see all equal through the outer organs then it does not apply to those who are handicap, thus:
ਅਖੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਵੇਖਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਕੰਨਾ ਸੁਨਣਾ ॥ਪੈਰਾ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਚਲਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਹਥਾ ਕਰਣਾ ॥
To see without eyes; to hear without ears;to walk without feet; to work without hands;
ਜੀਭੈ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਇਉ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਣਾ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿ ਕੈ ਤਉ ਖਸਮੈ ਮਿਲਣਾ ॥੧॥
to speak without a tongue-like this, one remains dead while yet alive. this way O Nanak, recognize the Hukam of the Lord's Command, and accomplish the mission to become ONE and merge with your Lord and Master. ||1||
best regards
sahni mohinder

 

[seeker3k]

Yes we should make base of our mind divine wisdom -and create 'manukh durlabh dey' the precious human body by hardwork within us to accomplish the karz entrusted to us.
Since Gurbani is universal, without any discrimination and is for everyone thus if we interpret that it refers to see all equal through the outer organs then it does not apply to those who are handicap, thus:
ਅਖੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਵੇਖਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਕੰਨਾ ਸੁਨਣਾ ॥ਪੈਰਾ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਚਲਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਹਥਾ ਕਰਣਾ ॥
To see without eyes; to hear without ears;to walk without feet; to work without hands;
ਜੀਭੈ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਇਉ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਣਾ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿ ਕੈ ਤਉ ਖਸਮੈ ਮਿਲਣਾ ॥੧॥
to speak without a tongue-like this, one remains dead while yet alive. this way O Nanak, recognize the Hukam of the Lord's Command, and accomplish the mission to become ONE and merge with your Lord and Master. ||1||
best regards
sahni mohinder

What is this thing we see,hear,walk,do?

I can only know that it is Samadhi.

Is it mean any thing else?

 

[japjisahib04]

What is this thing we see,hear,walk,do?

I can only know that it is Samadhi.

Is it mean any thing else?

No. It is jeewan mukat. Liberated from the fog of darkness.
Best regards
sahni Mohinder

 

[seeker3k]

No. It is jeewan mukat. Liberated from the fog of darkness.
Best regards
sahni Mohinder

Sorry I disagree with you on this point.

When jeewan is kukat then who see with out eyes and who hear with out ears, who walk with out feet. Nothing is done when one is kuket. As long we can do all those things we are not muket. After we r mukat there is no karam.