Why Our Souls Separated From God?

Discussion in 'Questions & Answers' started by Yuno, Apr 18, 2018.

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  1. Yuno

    Yuno SPNer

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    Since according to sikhi, the ultimate aim of human life is to become ONE with god, I wonder why souls separated from god in the first place?

    P.S. I don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings so please bear with it if my question sounds arrogant.
     
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  3. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    According to Gurbani, it’s not that our souls are something separate from Creator at all. Rather we are in a state of illusion of separation where we have forgotten that we really are ONE.

    There is a reason for duality. As ONE there is nothing else and nobody else to make subjective comparison. As ONE it’s impossible to contemplate anything or anyone else. It’s only through duality that ONE can experience subjectively its own self. However it would not work if memory was retained as then the illusion of separateness collapses as soon as you realize you are in fact ONE.

    I remember a quote which sums it up well... paraphrased... “Reality is the act of the ONE Creator experiencing itself subjectively through its own creation” and this must be done in amnesia of itself or it really isn’t able to grasp a separate point of observation... because well there really in reality is none.

    When we speak of ‘merging’ back with Creator really what we should say is remove the veil of illusion which is keeping us from remembering that we are already ONE and always were ONE and always will be ONE.
     
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  4. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    I think its more according to your understanding of Gurbani, than Gurbani per se, unless you have had intimate talks with God?
     
  5. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    Actually Gurbani has many references to duality itself being the illusion. This shabad also puts it into context. It’s soeaking specifically about the atma... not the mind being enlightened when the illusion is removed. It speaks about the duality of the body... is separateness... vice being ‘merged’.
    “The illusion of duality is easily removed”
    In peace their body’s duality is removed and they ‘merge’ with (Creator). So duality is the illusion.
    Once that illusion is torn down, their atma (part of the paramatma) recognizes that they are ONE.

     
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  6. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    I am sorry to disappoint you but that is not a Sikhi thought.
    1. What is Soul as per your understanding? Please elaborate.

    A Sikh is always One with the One, Ik Ong Kaar in the only life he/she has. This is what omnipresence of The Source means.
    A Sikh is Ik Ong Kaar centred the day he becomes one unlike in other religions where the judgement is after death. A Sikh judges his/her actions with each and every breath.
     
  7. Yuno

    Yuno SPNer

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    I do not have any particular word to use for what's soul as per my understanding but I would like to elaborate my thoughts.
    "Soul is what gives me idea of what's wrong and what's right. I believe soul is something that's more like god himself."
    I can't really explain much like this but please ask me some more questions as like do you think soul is this? or that? I would be able to explain better.
     
  8. Yuno

    Yuno SPNer

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    Since God is omniscient and becoming ONE with god would obviously be becoming omniscient so I don't understand how can anything be impossible to contemplate as ONE?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  9. Yuno

    Yuno SPNer

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    I want to know why illusion and why everything?
    Question coming to my mind is if I DARE to ask why God created everything? And why then, when he did, why not before that?

    P.S. These thoughts keep on coming to my mind after I realized most people talk about what after death? Reincarnation? like thoughts. Whereas my mind revolves around past about reason behind all this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  10. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    As ONE there is no other to contemplate. As soon as something ‘other’ is contemplated then you now have duality... the ONE and the ‘other’. In reality there is no ‘other’ as it’s only and idea of ‘other’ and from the point of view of the ‘other’ it seems as if there are two - the ONE and the other. As soon as realization happens from duality point of view the illusion collapses and all is ONE. And from ONEness as soon as an ‘other’ anything is contemplated there is duality. I don’t think there is a why to this...so much as there just ‘is’.

    Speaking from a purely philosophical viewpoint anyway.
     
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  11. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur Writer SPNer Supporter

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    What is a soul? Maybe my thinking is too simplistic, but I believe that Sikhi teaches us that everyone has the light (jot) of the One. This light is eternal, unchanging, and immortal. I call this light my soul. Eventually, it will be consciously reunited with the One. The spark merges with the fire, as the drop of water merges with the ocean. I see no reason to complicate the matter.
     
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  12. Yuno

    Yuno SPNer

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    Understood. Still I would like to continue quest of finding why.
     
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  13. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    rubbish, there are lots of why's. I have been bombarding you with why's from day one, but you never answer, if there is an 'is' it is only to you, not me, there are a million philosophical view points, how arrogant for anyone to assume their theory is, rather than have to explain why
     
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  14. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    you wake up, you live your life, you go to sleep, you do the same the next day, then you die, and then your nothing, in between you learn,

    Speaking from a purely philosophical viewpoint anyway.

    for myself, I am happy to debate this in full and answer any questions
     
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  15. Yuno

    Yuno SPNer

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    I would like to know your philosophical view point of why God could have created everything and why then when he did? Why not before that?
     
  16. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    I have no viewpoint on it as it is not relevant to me, there are many questions that one could answer, tell me what benefit the answer has to you?

    Actually its impossible to answer, if God has been around forever, then time is irrelevant, I could say God did it a few years after God came on the scene, but God has always been on the scene, so your asking a human being an impossible question that only a God could answer, I am not a God unfortunately, but there are a few on this site that think they are, they could give you answer
     
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    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  17. Yuno

    Yuno SPNer

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    For this spark to merge with fire and for this drop of water to merge with ocean is only possible if it was not already ONE with it.
     
  18. Yuno

    Yuno SPNer

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    Sir, I now do agree with that this could be answered by god himself.
    Keeping it simple, benefit from the answer would simply be that everything like reincarnation,new life on basis of deeds in previous life, might all start making sense.
    In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji reason to get free from cycle of life and death is to merge back with ONE. But I did not( I don't have full knowledge) found any reason suggesting why ONE(creator)(god) started everything?
    Then again I guess only god himself is able to answer :)
     
  19. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    sorry to complicate, but it is not a given, even within Sikhism, that reincarnation and life on basis of previous deeds has any foundation, many Sikhs live their life free of this Vedic concept on the basis that there is no reward for being good other than doing good itself, but what actually constitutes good takes some pondering, every day you get the chance to merge with the one, and every day you get the chance not to, it is your choice, nothing is forever, everything changes, forever changes,

    just another philosophical concept....
     
  20. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    When I said it just ‘is’ I was speaking about the ONEness point of view vs duality and that as soon as from the duality viewpoint is realized that everything is ONE, the duality automatically collapses. It’s just ‘logic’ same as from ONEness point of view if ONE contemplates an other then thereby is no more ONE. Duality is created. I wasn’t speaking about my personal beliefs but just logic applied to philosophy. Even in classical sense read Aristotle etc. Same realizations...

    I wasn’t really even intimating my own theory as such. Just showing how that philosophical thought agrees with Gurbani. Your view on the meaning of that shabad may be different... from what I remember in past conversations I am thinking you more interpret it to mean duality as like a split personality disorder and integration in a psychology sense? (I’m asking not telling so please share how you would interpret that shabad).
     
  21. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    This is why I believe several shabads mention something to the effect “why speak of merging when one is already merged” instead of a separate drop of water from the ocean, think of several individual atoms of water still floating in the ocean, but unaware that’s where they really are.
     
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