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Why Is There Suffering And Chaos In This World?

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Why Is There Suffering And Chaos In This World?

RicktheSikh

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Please explain what soft deterministic means ?
Exactly what I said in the last sentence of mine that you quoted. Or if you'd prefer a different definition...

Soft determinism is the view that determinism and free will are compatible. It is thus a form of compatibilism. The term was coined by the American philosopher William James (1842-1910) in his essay “The Dilemma of Determinism.”
 

sukhsingh

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Exactly what I said in the last sentence of mine that you quoted. Or if you'd prefer a different definition...

Soft determinism is the view that determinism and free will are compatible. It is thus a form of compatibilism. The term was coined by the American philosopher William James (1842-1910) in his essay “The Dilemma of Determinism.”
Thanks I'll have to look that up
 

Harry Haller

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The answers to these questions are all subjective. My personal answers are that the world should be just and compassionate. The small things include tender moments with loved ones and the joy of feeling the first drops of the first rain of the season. The big picture includes the environmental degradation of the Earth, the creeping threat of a technological police state and the eventual death of the planet.
The world is just and compassionate, it is the human beings in the world that make it not so, and as long as there are human beings, it will never be just and compassionate, the only just and compassionate world is the world within us, some of us choose to live there, and there alone, some choose to reject it and live in a world of maya and shit, that is our own choice.

I won't argue with your small things, (I've seen the photos)

The big picture is irrelevant, it will not affect me in my lifetime, nor my kids, as I have none, so I guess that is someone else's problem, but, as with everything that happens in the world, everything will be as it should be
 

RicktheSikh

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The world is just and compassionate, it is the human beings in the world that make it not so, and as long as there are human beings, it will never be just and compassionate, the only just and compassionate world is the world within us, some of us choose to live there, and there alone, some choose to reject it and live in a world of maya and shit, that is our own choice.

I won't argue with your small things, (I've seen the photos)

The big picture is irrelevant, it will not affect me in my lifetime, nor my kids, as I have none, so I guess that is someone else's problem, but, as with everything that happens in the world, everything will be as it should be
Sounds like you're accepting what simply is.
 

Jasdeep118

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quite the opposite, I am rejecting what simply is, for the sheer hell of it
Harry I was asking you a question. Do you think that there is a God or a higher being, I mean you seem of a secular person of sorts, but you were raised as a Sikh when you were younger.
 

Harry Haller

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I do believe in a God, but I guess not the sort of God that most people believe in, God is my best mate, he is with me all the time, he does not really suggest any of the things I end up doing, or have done, he is like my passive best mate that just goes along with it, and then gives me that look after its all over, and then I look back at him and say, yeah ok, but it was fun wasn't it, he laughs with me when I laugh, he cries with me when I cry, he shares my victories in life, and he shares my losses, I am never alone, ever, he is a great guy, a great best friend, never lets me down, always up for whatever bonkers idea I have at the time, he has no opinion or direction, in fact, he talks like a therapist, he questions my desires, my motives, my agendas, makes me clarify them, makes me explain them, but never stands in my way, sometimes I put him though unimaginable shit, sometimes unimaginable pleasures, and no matter where we end up, he will always say at the end of the day, always a laugh with you Harry, always a laugh.
 

Jasdeep118

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I do believe in a God, but I guess not the sort of God that most people believe in, God is my best mate, he is with me all the time, he does not really suggest any of the things I end up doing, or have done, he is like my passive best mate that just goes along with it, and then gives me that look after its all over, and then I look back at him and say, yeah ok, but it was fun wasn't it, he laughs with me when I laugh, he cries with me when I cry, he shares my victories in life, and he shares my losses, I am never alone, ever, he is a great guy, a great best friend, never lets me down, always up for whatever bonkers idea I have at the time, he has no opinion or direction, in fact, he talks like a therapist, he questions my desires, my motives, my agendas, makes me clarify them, makes me explain them, but never stands in my way, sometimes I put him though unimaginable shit, sometimes unimaginable pleasures, and no matter where we end up, he will always say at the end of the day, always a laugh with you Harry, always a laugh.
I liked your view on God Harry, but I have one more question. Are you still connected with Sikhi still, I mean do you go to the Gurdwara occasionally or think about the Guru's? One last thing do you think that there is an afterlife or a soul. Sorry for the questions, I am just curious because I was younger I thought you were a "gora" who was curious about Sikhi but I realised you were an "apnay" who was from Southhall
 

Tejwant Singh

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God grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference. - allegedly Reinhold Niebuhr
Are you sure?
I thought it was Joseph Smith's 20th wife who said that.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Exactly what I said in the last sentence of mine that you quoted. Or if you'd prefer a different definition...

Soft determinism is the view that determinism and free will are compatible. It is thus a form of compatibilism. The term was coined by the American philosopher William James (1842-1910) in his essay “The Dilemma of Determinism.”
But if I am not mistaken, this essay is based on the free will as talked in Christianity because the term was coined then. Are both of us on the same page?
 

Harry Haller

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I liked your view on God Harry, but I have one more question.
thank you, slightly worrying, but thank you,

Are you still connected with Sikhi still, I mean do you go to the Gurdwara occasionally or think about the Guru's?
Sure I am, but probably not in the way that makes me popular, for instance, only yesterday whilst visiting my parents, someone recounted the following story,

Jai Ram, Guru Nanak's brother-in-law was serving as dewan (steward) to the governor, Nawab Daulat Khan Lodhi of Sultanpur. It is said that both Jai Ram and Rai Bular were of the opinion that Guru Nanak was a saint ill-treated by his father; and thus Jai Ram promised to find a job for him in Sultanpur.

Guru Nanak's sister was deeply devoted to her younger brother. On their annual visit to Talwandi, when she noticed her father's impatience at her brother's indifference towards worldly activities, she decided to take him to Sultanpur. Her father gave his consent hoping he would choose a good profession.

Jai Ram got the Guru the post of a store-keeper of Nawab's state granary where the grain was collected as a part of land revenue and later sold. The Guru carried out the duties of the store-keeper very efficiently. The minstrel Mardana subsequently joined the Guru and other friends too followed. Guru Nanak introduced them to the Khan, who provided them suitable jobs in his administration. Every night there was Shabad-Kirtan (singing divine hymns).

One day he was weighing provisions and was counting each weighing as 'one, two, three... ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen'. When he reached the number thirteen (13)- 'Tera' (in Punjabi language Tera means number 13, and Tera also means 'yours', that is 'I am Yours, O Lord'), he went into meditation.

Guru Nanak went on weighing by saying, "Tera, tera, tera..." The customers were happy to receive the extra provisions and did not know how to carry so many goods. They could not understand the bounties of the Lord.

Ultimately the situation reached Nawab Daulat Khan when a charge was levied against the Guru that he was recklessly giving away grain. The Nawab ordered an inquiry which was conducted very carefully. The Guru's detractors were surprised when the stores were found full. In fact, the accounts showed an extra surplus in favour of Guru Nanak.

Unfortunately, my reply of 'utter shite' did not go down too well, I attempted to explain that this story made my Guru sound like a thief and a fool, who could do what he liked, and for whom God would cover him in his activities, this story does nothing to promote Sikhism in the way that I see it, and herein lies the problem, the story promotes stealing from the man you work for, so anyone reading it, could take from it that it is acceptable to steal from the man that pays your wages and give it away to all and sundry, I don't like stories that make my Guru look simple. I was chastised for my language and in the manner of my reply, but in my mind, the greater offence was the intimation that Guru Nanakji was a thief. I always think about the Guru, as I said, he is my best friend, no one speaks about my best friend like that.

No, I don't go to Gurdwara, I don't own a big merecedes, and I don't have any gold jewels or fine clothes, and I don't particularly need a special place to go to in order to be Sikhlike, or I guess, what I call Sikhlike, I also find the huge pictures of people I don't recognise staring down at me a bit unnerving, the food is also a bit rich for my tastes, as is the smell of agenda.

One last thing do you think that there is an afterlife or a soul.
No, I guess I don't, every day you wake up, and then one day you don't and then that's it, the big sleep.

A soul, depends, how do you define soul?

No, I am not from Southall, I live in Essex.
 

RicktheSikh

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But if I am not mistaken, this essay is based on the free will as talked in Christianity because the term was coined then. Are both of us on the same page?
I don't know, I just copied and pasted a succinct definition I found online.
 

Harry Haller

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i think in this context its more our colour, as we are all ours, are we not?
 

Sikhilove

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thank you, slightly worrying, but thank you,


Sure I am, but probably not in the way that makes me popular, for instance, only yesterday whilst visiting my parents, someone recounted the following story,

Jai Ram, Guru Nanak's brother-in-law was serving as dewan (steward) to the governor, Nawab Daulat Khan Lodhi of Sultanpur. It is said that both Jai Ram and Rai Bular were of the opinion that Guru Nanak was a saint ill-treated by his father; and thus Jai Ram promised to find a job for him in Sultanpur.

Guru Nanak's sister was deeply devoted to her younger brother. On their annual visit to Talwandi, when she noticed her father's impatience at her brother's indifference towards worldly activities, she decided to take him to Sultanpur. Her father gave his consent hoping he would choose a good profession.

Jai Ram got the Guru the post of a store-keeper of Nawab's state granary where the grain was collected as a part of land revenue and later sold. The Guru carried out the duties of the store-keeper very efficiently. The minstrel Mardana subsequently joined the Guru and other friends too followed. Guru Nanak introduced them to the Khan, who provided them suitable jobs in his administration. Every night there was Shabad-Kirtan (singing divine hymns).

One day he was weighing provisions and was counting each weighing as 'one, two, three... ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen'. When he reached the number thirteen (13)- 'Tera' (in Punjabi language Tera means number 13, and Tera also means 'yours', that is 'I am Yours, O Lord'), he went into meditation.

Guru Nanak went on weighing by saying, "Tera, tera, tera..." The customers were happy to receive the extra provisions and did not know how to carry so many goods. They could not understand the bounties of the Lord.

Ultimately the situation reached Nawab Daulat Khan when a charge was levied against the Guru that he was recklessly giving away grain. The Nawab ordered an inquiry which was conducted very carefully. The Guru's detractors were surprised when the stores were found full. In fact, the accounts showed an extra surplus in favour of Guru Nanak.

Unfortunately, my reply of 'utter shite' did not go down too well, I attempted to explain that this story made my Guru sound like a thief and a fool, who could do what he liked, and for whom God would cover him in his activities, this story does nothing to promote Sikhism in the way that I see it, and herein lies the problem, the story promotes stealing from the man you work for, so anyone reading it, could take from it that it is acceptable to steal from the man that pays your wages and give it away to all and sundry, I don't like stories that make my Guru look simple. I was chastised for my language and in the manner of my reply, but in my mind, the greater offence was the intimation that Guru Nanakji was a thief. I always think about the Guru, as I said, he is my best friend, no one speaks about my best friend like that.

No, I don't go to Gurdwara, I don't own a big merecedes, and I don't have any gold jewels or fine clothes, and I don't particularly need a special place to go to in order to be Sikhlike, or I guess, what I call Sikhlike, I also find the huge pictures of people I don't recognise staring down at me a bit unnerving, the food is also a bit rich for my tastes, as is the smell of agenda.
That's what you took from the story? You honestly have no idea do you
 

Harry Haller

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That's what you took from the story? You honestly have no idea do you
nope, and I want it to stay that way, but do be careful what you write if you wish your boundaries to be respected, I prefer to debate with strong minded people that can debate back with me,


thanks
 

RicktheSikh

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That's what you took from the story? You honestly have no idea do you
To be fair, fables like this are kind of silly. I'm not familiar with many of them, but the One about a cobra providing shade for Guru Nanak as an infant or the one about Guru Gobind Singh's horse refusing to walk through tobacco fields seem more like bedtime stories for children than anything to be taken seriously. I'll take that back if these stories are found in gurbani. That is all.
 

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