What Is 'True Destiny" In Sikhism?

[harcharanjitsinghdhillon]

please discuss here the true destiny in sikhism, and please give your respected oppinions on it. to my oppinion it is such khand.. thanks

 

[ruval]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!

True Destiny of a sikh is to attain the lotus feet of his beloved guru and to merge with the Jyot of the Akalpurakh.

 

[namjiwankaur]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

_/|\_ Sat Nam

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!

True Destiny of a sikh is to attain the lotus feet of his beloved guru and to merge with the Jyot of the Akalpurakh.

I agree. Even if it takes more than one lifetime, but I think all mystics (those whose life is devoted to God), openly or secretly crave nirvana/awakening in this lifetime. I know I do!

japposatnamwaheguru:
Nam Jiwan

 

[chazSingh]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

to understand what TRUE LOVE is...when we do something in TRUE LOVE, we do it without desire, without hate, without wanting anything in return, zero ego...it becomes an action of pure love i.e. God.

i dont think anyone can 'aim' for sach khand. we cant really aim for something we dont really understand i think.

my wife is very materialistic, she's always aiming for the better house, better car...it's her focus....what she doesnt understand is, all of her aims are not under her control...
it all depends on what opportunities are given to her, how many people require her service, on her boss giving her the pay rise, or promotion.

all she can do is work truthfully, work hard, and hope for the best.

In the same way all we can do is offer our mind, body and belongings to our guru.
If you're aiming for something, you want something in return and it could become a desire. True love has no desire...a very thin line i think.

sacrifice our time for helping others, sacrificing our time and energy for Simran/Meditation, and sharing our earning with others....I believe to do this and sustain it over our lifetimes, requires dedication and most importantly love...true love.

Everything else God does...everything we need to realise will be shown to us. Sach Khand is just a word to me, doesnt really mean anything...but i know i can surrender bit by bit what i have in time and effort for something i have faith, beliefe and a sudden longing for.

just my thoughts from my personal experiences.

God bless

 

[Luckysingh]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

to understand what TRUE LOVE is...when we do something in TRUE LOVE, we do it without desire, without hate, without wanting anything in return, zero ego...it becomes an action of pure love i.e. God.

i dont think anyone can 'aim' for sach khand. we cant really aim for something we dont really understand i think.

my wife is very materialistic, she's always aiming for the better house, better car...it's her focus....what she doesnt understand is, all of her aims are not under her control...
it all depends on what opportunities are given to her, how many people require her service, on her boss giving her the pay rise, or promotion.

all she can do is work truthfully, work hard, and hope for the best.

In the same way all we can do is offer our mind, body and belongings to our guru.
If you're aiming for something, you want something in return and it could become a desire. True love has no desire...a very thin line i think.

sacrifice our time for helping others, sacrificing our time and energy for Simran/Meditation, and sharing our earning with others....I believe to do this and sustain it over our lifetimes, requires dedication and most importantly love...true love.

Everything else God does...everything we need to realise will be shown to us. Sach Khand is just a word to me, doesnt really mean anything...but i know i can surrender bit by bit what i have in time and effort for something i have faith, beliefe and a sudden longing for.

just my thoughts from my personal experiences.

God bless

I mostly agree here, sach khand being the goal is not the real idea because it's only what we think we know about feelings in this life form that we think we shall be in bliss and anand in sach khand.
It is usually best to avoid such fantasy heaven ideas similar to 72 virgins in islam!!
I mean, your conscious which is what lives on and will enter such realms, then this conscious doesn't have the same feelings of lust and joy that we have now!!

My views have changed a little recently and now I realise that when one strips them selves of Ego and worldly desires, then one will come to realise that there is infact NO ME !!
The ME does not really exist and it is ALL HIM.
When we reach this state of mind, I think you realize that the destiny is just HIM and HIS Will or Hukam.

These goals that we set ourselves are good in order to progress but I think as we move forward spiritualywe come to realise that the ME and the I SHOULD DO THIS, is ALL non-existant as it is ALL HIM.

Therefore, I have began to think that the TRUE REALISATION is this very realising that it is ALL him. But we have to have the ego aspects, of 'I should try', 'I should do this', 'I need to better myself' ...etc. in order that we can proceed to the goal of 'Realisation'

Once we can do this by stripping off ego an desires completely, then we can also realise that destiny, free will, written destiny, karma...etc... is NOT even affecting us, as it is ALL HIM and His Will.

 

[BhagatSingh]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

I finally have some like-minded company on this forum. Thank you Lucky Singh ji and Chaz Singh ji. Your posts are warmly received.0

 

[Luckysingh]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

I finally have some like-minded company on this forum. Thank you Lucky Singh ji and Chaz Singh ji. Your posts are warmly received.0

I think we express our feelings more than the usual learned and logic.
I have never felt this way and I must admit that it is after going into deep meditation and simran that you just get this intuition.
It's just like you know somehow !!
I could may well be wrong, but I can't find any fault into thinking in this manner anymore.
It's like you realise what 'realisation' actually is.
Not because I have got the full realisation yet, but because I have to keep some of the ego to actually get there in order to strip it fully !

I think it's important to deeply understand what is temporary and what is permanent, although you have to utilise all the temporary resources in this world to be able to realise the permanent.

Waheguru

 

[BhagatSingh]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

I think we express our feelings more than the usual learned and logic.
I have never felt this way and I must admit that it is after going into deep meditation and simran that you just get this intuition.
It's just like you know somehow !!

That's exactly how it with me, like an inner-knowing.

I think Gurus would ascribe this not to themselves or their intuition but to God Himself. I am trying to work towards that myself because I think calling it "my intuition" could fuel the ego just a tad bit but enough to lose sight of reality. Though I could be wrong, it maybe possible to feel so one with God as to ascribe everything to yourself! Such a person might even say they are God, which we would normally associate with a lot of ego, in their case it maybe the act of greatest humility and truth.

I could may well be wrong, but I can't find any fault into thinking in this manner anymore.
It's like you realise what 'realisation' actually is.
Not because I have got the full realisation yet, but because I have to keep some of the ego to actually get there in order to strip it fully !

Yeah same with 'explanation'. How do you explain to someone that which explains everything?

I think it's important to deeply understand what is temporary and what is permanent, although you have to utilise all the temporary resources in this world to be able to realise the permanent.

Waheguru

You said it

 

[palaingtha]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

to understand what TRUE LOVE is...when we do something in TRUE LOVE, we do it without desire, without hate, without wanting anything in return, zero ego...it becomes an action of pure love i.e. God.

i dont think anyone can 'aim' for sach khand. we cant really aim for something we dont really understand i think.

my wife is very materialistic, she's always aiming for the better house, better car...it's her focus....what she doesnt understand is, all of her aims are not under her control...
it all depends on what opportunities are given to her, how many people require her service, on her boss giving her the pay rise, or promotion.

all she can do is work truthfully, work hard, and hope for the best.

In the same way all we can do is offer our mind, body and belongings to our guru.
If you're aiming for something, you want something in return and it could become a desire. True love has no desire...a very thin line i think.

sacrifice our time for helping others, sacrificing our time and energy for Simran/Meditation, and sharing our earning with others....I believe to do this and sustain it over our lifetimes, requires dedication and most importantly love...true love.

Everything else God does...everything we need to realise will be shown to us. Sach Khand is just a word to me, doesnt really mean anything...but i know i can surrender bit by bit what i have in time and effort for something i have faith, beliefe and a sudden longing for.

just my thoughts from my personal experiences.

God bless

I appreciate your views.
If a man has clean concious he will only do good deeds. Evil thoughts will never transpire his mind. He will abstain from hurting others, even his sworn enemy/ies. Whenever and wherever possible he will serve others and find happiness in it.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

PALAINGTHA Ji,
I refer to your views as
"If a man has clean concious he will only do good deeds. Evil thoughts will never transpire his mind. He will abstain from hurting others, even his sworn enemy/ies. Whenever and wherever possible he will serve others and find happiness in it.<!-- google_ad_section_end --> "

This is true but how a man can have clean concious.Are there any efforts for this.?

My understandind is that True destity in Sikhi is what is predestined and this can
not be changed .Ultimately it is the Hukamu that is playing the whole game of
destiny.

Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[palaingtha]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

PALAINGTHA Ji,
I refer to your views as
"If a man has clean concious he will only do good deeds. Evil thoughts will never transpire his mind. He will abstain from hurting others, even his sworn enemy/ies. Whenever and wherever possible he will serve others and find happiness in it.<!-- google_ad_section_end --> "

This is true but how a man can have clean concious.Are there any efforts for this.?

My understandind is that True destity in Sikhi is what is predestined and this can
not be changed .Ultimately it is the Hukamu that is playing the whole game of
destiny.

Prakash.s.Bagga

As per my understanding I have to say that We have Free "will" to do our actions whether they are good or bad. Suppose a man lived a good, honest, honourable life and he dies to be born again. His actions and deeds follow him to the next incarnation (life), and he carries on with his good deeds which is very likely. Thus if he carries on with good actions and lives life remembering God he is most likely to move towards Mukti. But on the contrary if he changes his course of action and indulges in bad actions, he will be turning back from Mukti. The same for a man who lived a life doing bad deeds, the life of a sinner, he will be indulging in bad deeds in next life , but if he happens to meet a saint and is influenced to be reformed to do good deeds he will turn towards God/Mukti.

Suppose a man goes to buy apples and he pays a Rs.500/- currency note. Apples are worth Rs.150/. But by a mistake the shop keeper returns him Rs.450/-. Here the concious comes into play. A man with clean concious will check again and take his Rs.350/- and return Rs.100/- without second thoughts. But a man with no clean concious will walk away.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

From Gurbanee one can learn that Real Gurmikh is not under the influence of his FREE WILL.The FREE WILL becomes zero then only one can relish the essence of NAAMu

It would be equally important to understand the reference of SANT..
In Gurbanee GuRu itself is the only SANT one is required to meet
and meeting this SANT is also predestined.


Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

prakash.s.bagga ji thanks for your post. A comment below.

From Gurbanee one can learn that Real Gurmikh is not under the influence of his FREE WILL.The FREE WILL becomes zero then only one can relish the essence of NAAMu

If we treat God/creator as parent, we know that even dumbest of all parents does not want child on a leash. Creation is not on a leash like a dog. Sometimes the symbology is the same as say in your note above.

The way you describe Hukam/diction is as though it is a leash for an animal which hence has no control what does or happens. Sikhism does not teach us that. What is recognized in Sikhism is that there is infinite to know. What cannot be understood for any set of reasons is part of the infinite truth of creation and the creator. Some outcomes may never be understood as the variables to model the outcome are far too large a number. Sikhism teaches us to recognize and respect this as Hukam.

It would be equally important to understand the reference of SANT.. In Gurbanee GuRu itself is the only SANT one is required to meet and meeting this SANT is also predestined.

Another useless mis-direction. SGGS teaches one that company of the pious/Sant is great to be had. Pre-destined stuff is the randomness in creation that we do not fully understand. Calling it pre-destined versus the truth of happening per rules of creation is another way to put blinkers to not search or learn or seek how creation is. Sikhism teaches us to search, learn and seek and live thereof.

The stated approaches lead to sants/babas or the elite and blind faith. Sikhism could not be any further from such associations and conjectures.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

prakash.s.bagga ji thanks for your post. A comment below.If we treat God/creator as parent, we know that even dumbest of all parents does not want child on a leash. Creation is not on a leash like a dog. Sometimes the symbology is the same as say in your note above.

The way you describe Hukam/diction is as though it is a leash for an animal which hence has no control what does or happens. Sikhism does not teach us that. What is recognized in Sikhism is that there is infinite to know. What cannot be understood for any set of reasons is part of the infinite truth of creation and the creator. Some outcomes may never be understood as the variables to model the outcome are far too large a number. Sikhism teaches us to recognize and respect this as Hukam.
Another useless mis-direction. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji teaches one that company of the pious/Sant is great to be had. Pre-destined stuff is the randomness in creation that we do not fully understand. Calling it pre-destined versus the truth of happening per rules of creation is another way to put blinkers to not search or learn or seek how creation is. Sikhism teaches us to search, learn and seek and live thereof.

The stated approaches lead to sants/babas or the elite and blind faith. Sikhism could not be any further from such associations and conjectures.

Sat Sri Akal.

I can only respect your understanding. Nothing more than this.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Luckysingh]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

The question is what is the Free will ?
We have to understand that the 'free will' which does exist and there is no denying that is ONLY in play whilst we are.

What does that really mean ?
We are what we think we are, or what we are in the worldly and maya state. We don't escape from it but we have to learn to ride through it and come out gurmukhs.
When someone is able to come out and have the realisation of pure truth then they will acknowledge that the 'free will' was not permanent.
What is permanent and above all is the hukam and divine will.

Therfore the real governer above all actions and happenings is the divine will.

Question many will ask is, why have the free will then, if hukam governs everything ?
Well, this is how we are to learn. Do we use the free will to help us realise the truth or do we use it to fulfill and control our not so permanent life in the illusion !!

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

Question many will ask is, why have the free will then, if hukam governs everything ?
Well, this is how we are to learn. Do we use the free will to help us realise the truth or do we use it to fulfill and control our not so permanent life in the illusion !![/QUOTE]

LUCKY SINGH Ji,
Your point is very valid.
I am of the view that under the influence of so known "FREE WILL"
it is rather impossible to realise the truth.
When one makes oneself free from this thought of FREE WILL then only
one is able to understand and recognise HUKAMu of the Creator.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Harry Haller]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

lol lol lol lol lol lol

I seem to have mistyped a web address and found a Hindu Philosophy website!

Karma, good deeds going into next lives, Fate all very interesting

I always thought the Sikh view was to align ones will with the will of Creator, why else would there be terms such as Manmukh and Gurmukh

 

[Harry Haller]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

I appreciate your views.
If a man has clean concious he will only do good deeds. Evil thoughts will never transpire his mind. He will abstain from hurting others, even his sworn enemy/ies. Whenever and wherever possible he will serve others and find happiness in it.

unless the others are mona

 

[chazSingh]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

I mostly agree here, sach khand being the goal is not the real idea because it's only what we think we know about feelings in this life form that we think we shall be in bliss and anand in sach khand.
It is usually best to avoid such fantasy heaven ideas similar to 72 virgins in islam!!
I mean, your conscious which is what lives on and will enter such realms, then this conscious doesn't have the same feelings of lust and joy that we have now!!

My views have changed a little recently and now I realise that when one strips them selves of Ego and worldly desires, then one will come to realise that there is infact NO ME !!
The ME does not really exist and it is ALL HIM.
When we reach this state of mind, I think you realize that the destiny is just HIM and HIS Will or Hukam.

These goals that we set ourselves are good in order to progress but I think as we move forward spiritualywe come to realise that the ME and the I SHOULD DO THIS, is ALL non-existant as it is ALL HIM.

Therefore, I have began to think that the TRUE REALISATION is this very realising that it is ALL him. But we have to have the ego aspects, of 'I should try', 'I should do this', 'I need to better myself' ...etc. in order that we can proceed to the goal of 'Realisation'

Once we can do this by stripping off ego an desires completely, then we can also realise that destiny, free will, written destiny, karma...etc... is NOT even affecting us, as it is ALL HIM and His Will.

There are so many quotes in gurbani saying that god is all that there is...everything is Him...gurbani almost slaps us in the face with this truth...

ego/mind had to be, inorder to create the seperateness, the individualisation. god is experiencing himself...i really belive that is the turth...hopefully i experience the true oneness one day.

illusion of Seperateness had to exists for the 'many' to occur. but when individualisation takes over, illusion takes hold completely, god created a way for us to return and experience the truth again...simran.Seva etc.

 

[namjiwankaur]

re: What is 'True Destiny" in Sikhism?

_/|\_ SatNam

A lot of people ask how can everything be living in accordance with both free will and Divine laws/hukam/preordination. Only God knows some of this. Our interpretation of God's plans are probably similar to how a two year old would interpret Guru Granth Sahib. (I am not insulting the Guru Granth Sahib; I'm saying a child would look at the Guru Granth Sahib much differently than a Sikh sage would. The same, imho, probably happens with our ability to fathom God's ways.) We are longing to know something we will really never know while locked up inside our earthly bodies.

For me, it seems that there is a "plan" which also involves a "plan" for free will. It could be summed up simply by "Do you remember or forget Me?" "Do you do good or bad deeds? And there is the "instinct" to keep breathing and beating our hearts which is actually hukam (its not instinct, but people minimize it when it happens in the rest of the animal kingdom, etc.)

Would this mesh with the Guru Granth Sahib's teachings?

Nam Jiwan