Islam What Do You Think Of Islam?

[harmanpreet singh]

Hi Choochoochan ,

There are books, and revelations, in my belief revealed by God, not just certified

may i ask why not GOD revealed Quran directly to Mohammad , instead through a Jinn?why one rely on second hand info ,that too collected years after his death ?.



and regarding Kesh , these gave a fierce ,warrior ,lionly ,saintly look/identity to Khalsa , Gurus beloved army .

 

[choochoochan]

Hi Choochoochan ,

may i ask why not GOD revealed Quran directly to Mohammad , instead through a Jinn?why one rely on second hand info ,that too collected years after his death ?.



and regarding Kesh , these gave a fierce ,warrior ,lionly ,saintly look/identity to Khalsa , Gurus beloved army .

I dunno. Ask God? Maybe no one can see God? Moses never saw God. It's true in the Abramaic religions that transmissions were through the angels. Gabriel is not a Jinn. He's an angel. Are you talking about the hadiths? I've said before, i don't believe in that, precisely for that reason.

Erm, ok regarding the kesh.

 

[harmanpreet singh]

I dunno. Ask God? Maybe no one can see God? Moses never saw God. It's true in the Abramaic religions that transmissions were through the angels. Gabriel is not a Jinn. He's an angel. Are you talking about the hadiths? I've said before, i don't believe in that, precisely for that reason.

m not talking about hadiths , i means Quran is second hand info its not revealed by Allah to Muhammad ,its revealed by Jinn,Angel or whatever to Mohammad even that is collected after his death .

Maybe no one can see God?

not even gabreal ? is God Shy ?

It's true in the Abramaic religions that transmissions were through the angels.

so to believe in Allah ,we have to believe in fairy tales also ? why not Allah provide something solid ?

 

[choochoochan]

m not talking about hadiths , i means Quran is second hand info its not revealed by Allah to Muhammad ,its revealed by Jinn,Angel or whatever to Mohammad even that is collected after his death .


not even gabreal ? is he shy ?

The Quran was recorded during the lifetime of the Prophet. It was arranged thereafter. This is in contrast to the hadiths.

The Prophet did see Gabriel. The first meeting is in the Quran.

 

[harmanpreet singh]

The Quran was recorded during the lifetime of the Prophet. It was arranged thereafter. This is in contrast to the hadiths.

ya its arranged after his death ,by someone else .

The Prophet did see Gabriel. The first meeting is in the Quran.

i edited my above post to make it clear ,its. again ....

: Maybe no one can see God?

not even gabreal can see ? is God Shy ?

It's true in the Abramaic religions that transmissions were through the angels.

so to believe in Allah ,we have to believe in fairy tales also ? why not Allah provide something solid ?

 

[choochoochan]

ya its arranged after his death ,by someone else .


i edited my above post to make it clear ,its. again ....

not even gabreal can see ? is God Shy ?

so to believe in Allah ,we have to believe in fairy tales also ? why not Allah provide something solid ?

What's the issue with it being arranged by someone else? In fact arranged by some other people? The Quran, to its believers is a unique book. It doesn't have a fixed beginning nor a fixed ending.

I dunno if Gabriel has seen God. I think he has based on the verse where all prostrated before adam but Satan, a Jinn did not.

What would you want God to provide? He's provided you with this world and everything in it, surely that is enough for me. Fairy tales? FYI, i believe in the theory of evolution. And like how the science of hadiths is not science, the theory of evolution to me, is not a theory but a verifiable scientific revelation.

 

[Ikk Khalsa]

I cant speak for anyone else but myself. I was far from Sikhi and reason being all the made up stories about Gurus and their miracles. Now I am glad that I am learning and trying to live true Sikhi. Sikhi starts from inside, there are a lot of Sikhs with 5K's but far away from its philosophy. Sikhi's message is simple and universal and you cant find anything controversial in Guru Granth Sahib unlike other books.
At no point I could have thought about adopting other religion just because of all the selfless scarifies had been made in the past to keep this philosophy live. I think about Jassa Singh Ahluwalia and other Sikh who freed Hindu women from Mughals time to time which would have been like taking flesh out of lion's mouth. I think about those Sikh women who rather had their infants chopped into pieces in front of them than accept Islam. I think about Guru Gobind Singh who sacralised his whole family for us. I think about the time when Mughals had declared that all the Sikhs have been killed and how Sikhs must have lived in jungles to keep Sikh philosophy live. I know we are pure because our elders made though that time yet impure (better word would be "cowards") found easier way to make though that time by giving up their own beliefs and accepting others.
BTW this icon reminds of Bhai Bota Singh:angryyoungsingh:.

 

[Kamala]

I think it would've been "The religion of peace" if they didn't cause so much chaos lol.. I agree it's the leaders who caused it.. but how did they come to power? By the people..

 

[choochoochan]

I cant speak for anyone else but myself. I was far from Sikhi and reason being all the made up stories about Gurus and their miracles. Now I am glad that I am learning and trying to live true Sikhi. Sikhi starts from inside, there are a lot of Sikhs with 5K's but far away from its philosophy. Sikhi's message is simple and universal and you cant find anything controversial in Guru Granth Sahib unlike other books.
At no point I could have thought about adopting other religion just because of all the selfless scarifies had been made in the past to keep this philosophy live. I think about Jassa Singh Ahluwalia and other Sikh who freed Hindu women from Mughals time to time which would have been like taking flesh out of lion's mouth. I think about those Sikh women who rather had their infants chopped into pieces in front of them than accept Islam. I think about Guru Gobind Singh who sacralised his whole family for us. I think about the time when Mughals had declared that all the Sikhs have been killed and how Sikhs must have lived in jungles to keep Sikh philosophy live. I know we are pure because our elders made though that time yet impure (better word would be "cowards") found easier way to make though that time by giving up their own beliefs and accepting others.
BTW this icon reminds of Bhai Bota Singh:angryyoungsingh:.

So would i be correct to say that Sikhism to you, is a link to the historicity of the Sikh figures, rather than any kind of connect to God or the spiritual texts? I'm fine with that. I guess it would give someone a sense of belonging.

Maybe it's cos i'm from a mixed background? I don't exactly have this Sikh-Punjabi fascination. This is of course, not to say that other Sikhs from a mixed Punjabi+ whatever background are like me. I've met a few of are really absorbed in the Sikh culture (actually, it's more like the Jatt obsession) where the other side, the non-sikh/punjabi side is not regarded as important or of any significance. I guess my parents were different? I can't explain it. But maybe, as people from a mixed background, it was more incumbent on my father and myself to carve our own identity, away from the historical links with figures past.

All religions are inherently good. I do not understand this fascination with building numbers for any particular faith. It's meaningless and pointless, IMHO.

 

[choochoochan]

This is a question I have had for a long time. Please answer clearly and without hedging.

I understand that in Islam that the Prophet Mohammed is the last and, I think, greatest of the prophets and the Holy Q'uran is the final revelation of God - Allah - to mankind.

That being the case, any new revelation that came after him must be false. Where does that leave Sikhi, which came long after the Prophet?

I never understood this myself. Perhaps someone would be able to help me with this.

is the Sri Guru Granth Sahib considered a revelation by God in the same way, the Torah, Gospel and Quran are to its adherents?

 

[harmanpreet singh]

Originally Posted by Inderjeet Kaur
Where does that leave Sikhi,

Almost every Muslim i interacted told me Sikhs are Mushrik , Unbeliever and Hell torture awaiting them.

 

[Ishna]

Bhimsen ji

This thread is 'What do you think of Islam' and is in the Interfaith Dialogues -> Islam subforum. If you would like to start a corresponding 'What do you think of Sikhism' thread then please do so in another subforum, may I suggest Hard Talk -> General Discussion here: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/

Thank you

 

[Auzer]

what has happened to my thread? :sippingcoffeemunda:



lol

 

[Ishna]

Auzer ji you created a monster.

 

[AngloSikhPeace]

Monster? This is no monster.

On another forum I frequent, there's a 1,000 plus page-long debate about the Euro Crisis. lol

 

[ExploringSikhi]

In the Quran, God has given the promise that the Quran shall be preserved. I see nothing in relation to these so called hadiths. I believe in that promise.

All believers as a default will go to hell. This is not a Quranist interpretation, a sunni or whatever. It's a fact accepted by many muslims. If all muslims will go to heaven, pray tell what is the point of surah al-kahf and the other ayahs where it is mentioned, time and time again, those who have faith AND commit righteous deeds, will feel the Lord's mercy. I actually need to thank you. I haven't read Surah Al-Khaf in a long while. Ok anyway, AND is used, not OR. You need to have faith AND commit good deeds. If you have faith AND commit bad deeds, you're going nowhere but hell itself.

What were your three questions? I only remember the last one about polytheists. Well, i believe that polytheism is one of the biggest sins as highlighted in the Quran but i doubt there is any religion in existence today, save for those eastern religions, which are considered polytheism. Not even Hinduism. Hinduism is just monotheism under the guise of polytheism. I do not agree with idolatry and will never agree with it. Hinduism, based on my limited understanding is that all the gods and goddesses make up the one whole supreme being. In that sense, the gods and goddesses are not partners to God, not like Allat to Allah and the other diminutive gods/goddesses, but rather aspects of the one supreme being. Certain groups worship a certain aspect of god more than the other.

I will get back to you on the other question soon.

Apologies for taking such a long time to post, been busy with coursework and midterms so haven't really had the chance.

The three questions were as follows:

1) Show me where in the Qur'an it says all believers will go to hell.

2) Show me where in the Qur'an it says being Muslims doesn't give you any privelege to enter heaven.

3) What do you think is going to happen to polytheists when they die?

You haven't actually answered anything in the quoted post. The only thing you have stated is that "you need faith AND good deeds to get into heaven", and I agree with you, that is what Islam teaches. The problem, however, is that this isn't an answer to my question, nor does it address the point I brought up. You stated that ALL believers will go to hell. You hold the belief that every Muslim in the world will be going to hell. You have shown me nothing in the Qur'an which even remotely suggests such a thing, you brought up Surah Al-Kahf, which doesn't actually support your position, which leads me to believe that you probably read it with a pair of rose-tinted glasses and overlooked the things that seemed iffy to you, just as you seem to have done with the rest of the Qur'an.

Surah Al-Kahf states that someone who believes in Islamic monotheism and does good deeds will go to heaven forever. Absolutely NO mention of having to go to hell in advance whatsoever.

It also states that anyone who DOESN'T believe in Islamic monotheism (the Abrahamic version, it isn't good enough to just believe in One God as Sikhs do, it has to be the Islamic God), those people are going to be "entertained" in heaven with a terrible punishment.

Personally, I don't find the idea of having my skin roasted and burnt over and over again for all of eternity very entertaining, maybe you do, but I don't, but hey, that's just me

Get back to me when you have support for your beliefs from the Qur'an and not just your own opinion. Please also point out which of the major Islamic schools of thought believe that all Muslims will be going to hell (as you have stated), I'd be very interested to know. I can show you PLENTY of verses in the Qur'an, with Tafsirs, which would utterly destroy your beliefs and everything you think you know about Islam. Reply whenever you have the time.
Toodles

 

[Togusa]

I have a very deep respect for Islam. I have a large amount of Muslim friends from middle school, high school, and college. I've attended my college's Muslim Student Association's Eid party just to partake in the festivities and also learn a little more about Sufism. I've got a great deal of Nusrat Fateh and Abida Parveen songs on my phone which I listen to from time to time as well.

Perhaps it's just coincidence, but as a young child I used to live in Jackson Heights, NY. Jackson Heights was (and still is to this day) Desi Central. Pakistanis, Bengalis, and North Indians from all over the city come here to purchase things that bring them closer to their homeland. Sweets shops, Desi restaurants (Shaheen Mahal being my favourite place to eat at as a child), Bollywood video stores, Patel Brothers, sari stores, phone card vendors, jewellery stores, the list goes on and on.

My mother used to take me to Jackson Heights a lot when I was 4-5 years old. I remembered seeing a lot of strange men with fuzzy beards wearing strange hats and kurta pajama. My mother taught me that they were Muslims. Whenever we visited, we always ended up at Shaheen Mahal (picture here; 13 years later, I find out that my friend Sammer's uncle owns the place ). When I asked my mother what that strange writing was on the blue sign. She told me that it was written in Urdu.

My mom even took me with her to visit some Pakistani friends of hers when I was in kindergarten. When I was going to introduce myself, she told me to say "salaam alaykum" rather than "satsrikal" like I usually did when I visited my mother's friends. I didn't even recognise the difference between a Sikhi woman and a Muslim woman, because my mother, her friend, and her daughters all wore dupattas while her son and husband had their hair cut. I didn't even realise they were Pakistani until MUCH later in life (I mean like around 8th-9th grade) because they spoke Punjabi and English like we did.

A family friend of ours, Muhammad Idrees educated me more on Islam and the Qur'an whenever I visited him with my parents in Manhattan. I very rarely saw Idrees-uncle, so I don't remember everything he taught me. But he told me that I should never look at Muslims as if they're lower than me. I should look at Muslims on the same level I looked at everyone else. The way that people worship God shouldn't matter to me, because we're all equals in front of God's eyes. That's one lesson which stuck with me for my entire life.

Now in college, that childlike curiosity I've had drives some of my future plans. I want to visit Pakistan. Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar, Nankana Sahib, to name a few places. Someday, I'll visit the entirety of Southwest and Central Asia. I'm enrolling in an Arabic class, and I'm intending on learning Farsi along the way too.

Of course, no matter how much I'll learn about Islam, I'll always be a Sikh at heart.

 

[AngloSikhPeace]

Amazing picture, looks just like parts of Notts. Didn't know such places existed in the USA.

 

[Brother Onam]

Thank you, I spent much happy time around Jackson Heights. Patel Bro's always took good care of me, I had nice Indian buffets there, and most of my Sikh kirtan CD's were purchased at 'Flushing Video' (no longer around, alas). And, as you said, a genuine mix of many cultures in that neighborhood. Cheers.

 

[choochoochan]

Apologies for taking such a long time to post, been busy with coursework and midterms so haven't really had the chance.

The three questions were as follows:

1) Show me where in the Qur'an it says all believers will go to hell.

2) Show me where in the Qur'an it says being Muslims doesn't give you any privelege to enter heaven.

3) What do you think is going to happen to polytheists when they die?

You haven't actually answered anything in the quoted post. The only thing you have stated is that "you need faith AND good deeds to get into heaven", and I agree with you, that is what Islam teaches. The problem, however, is that this isn't an answer to my question, nor does it address the point I brought up. You stated that ALL believers will go to hell. You hold the belief that every Muslim in the world will be going to hell. You have shown me nothing in the Qur'an which even remotely suggests such a thing, you brought up Surah Al-Kahf, which doesn't actually support your position, which leads me to believe that you probably read it with a pair of rose-tinted glasses and overlooked the things that seemed iffy to you, just as you seem to have done with the rest of the Qur'an.

Surah Al-Kahf states that someone who believes in Islamic monotheism and does good deeds will go to heaven forever. Absolutely NO mention of having to go to hell in advance whatsoever.

It also states that anyone who DOESN'T believe in Islamic monotheism (the Abrahamic version, it isn't good enough to just believe in One God as Sikhs do, it has to be the Islamic God), those people are going to be "entertained" in heaven with a terrible punishment.

Personally, I don't find the idea of having my skin roasted and burnt over and over again for all of eternity very entertaining, maybe you do, but I don't, but hey, that's just me

Get back to me when you have support for your beliefs from the Qur'an and not just your own opinion. Please also point out which of the major Islamic schools of thought believe that all Muslims will be going to hell (as you have stated), I'd be very interested to know. I can show you PLENTY of verses in the Qur'an, with Tafsirs, which would utterly destroy your beliefs and everything you think you know about Islam. Reply whenever you have the time.
Toodles

I have but only my opinions.

Tafsirs are only valid in light of the Quran. I leave you with the last verse from Surah Al Khaf,

Say, "I am only a man like you, to whom has been revealed that your god is one God. So whoever would hope for the meeting with his Lord - let him do righteous work and not associate in the worship of his Lord anyone."

After distilling down the essence of the Quran,the belief required in the Quran is essentially that. Not to associate the Lord with anything or anyone else. To recognise that there is one God, the Rabbil Alamin, the Lord of the Worlds.

I really got nothing else to say. It's pointless. You're free to think what you will.