Christianity What Do You Think Of Christianity?

[Abneet]

I'm asking all of you what do you think of Christianity.

In my opinion, its a great long-lasting religion, but in which the Bible consists of changed text throughout the years giving the Christians not the "Word of God" anymore.

If you can, point out somethings than you disagree with their faith or something you find bizzare or just unbearable to believe in. I'm just interested what the community has to think of this religion and its teachings.

 

[Ishna]

Re: What Do You Think

If you can, point out somethings than you disagree with their faith or something you find bizzare or just unbearable to believe in. I'm just interested what the community has to think of this religion and its teachings.

Are you only interested in the weird side? Because you haven't asked for what the community thinks are some of the not-unbearable parts, etc.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: What Do You Think

Thanks Ishna ji

One thing to remember is we should not bash other religions. So when a thread is set up to look at the negatives that is what will happen.

A better direction would be:What ideas are difficult to understand? That would allow for everyone to participate, including those who feel they do understand, without difficulty, and can explain, without difficulty. It would also allow for other members to look a single problem from more than one point of view. That is how to get out of the negative and into the balanced and objective approach.

We should keep this on a comparative religions/belief systems level.

Otherwise, I am going to have to delete as we go.

 

[akiva]

Re: What Do You Think?

but in which the Bible consists of changed text throughout the years giving the Christians not the "Word of God" anymore.

Abneet Ji

As a former Catholic -- the correct phrase should be "the Inspired Word of God" - they hold that the authors of the texts were inspired by God as to what to write.

I'm not talking about the "old testament" here -- specifically the "new testament". The only text that claims to be the actual "word of God" -- narrated by God to man -- are the first 5 books of the Old Testament -- Genesis through Deuteronomy, which according to Jewish teachings were narrated by God to Moses on Mount Sinai.

(That's one reason there are differences between the Catholic and other christian texts - certain books were considered "inspired" by one group and not by others - some texts are considered canon and some apocryphal.)

The accepted texts were canonised years ago - where decisions were made as to which texts to include and which ones were not. Changes throughout the years since then are to translations.

Akiva

 

[aristotle]

Re: What Do You Think?

Well, I have read the Bible a few times, and not commenting about Biblical authenticity or scholarship I must say that I liked some of the parables supposedly narrated by Jesus in the New Testament. My favourite among them is parable of the old lady.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: What Do You Think?

Abneet Ji

As a former Catholic -- the correct phrase should be "the Inspired Word of God" - they hold that the authors of the texts were inspired by God as to what to write.

Akiva

Now the question arises what is NOT inspired by the omnipotent god? Can you shed some light on that please?

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: What Do You Think?

I'm not sure if it's Abneet's negative experiences that are promoting some reassurance on disagreeable aspects of the religion, but I personally have no problem whatsoever with Christianity.
It's not my path or ride, but I can't deny that it doesn't take a true Christian to their destination or not make them a better being.

In the same way a Japanese imported car is not my ride or my choice, but I can't knock it for it's efficient fuel consumption compared to my preferred North American gas guzzlers !!!
You may be wondering why on earth do I prefer an uneconomical drive with current fuel prices ??
Answer is simple.... I prefer the solid, rigid and tougher bodies of the domestics compared to the softer weaker ones of the imports, simply because I 'feel' safer with my choice, even though it may be costly !

My path is sikhi and I feel safer in this lane. My neighbor may be Christian but I don't ever doubt his/her's safety or feeling of security.

However, just as my fellow Japanese driver will try and convince me to convert and buy or take his ride, I shall remain firmly with my ride in my lane.
I will also note, that I should not try and convert other drivers with other rides into mine just as I shouldn't force my faith or religion upon others.

 

[Ishna]

Re: What Do You Think?

Now the question arises what is NOT inspired by the omnipotent god? Can you shed some light on that please?

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Rape. Vulgar pornography. Torture.

 

[aristotle]

Re: What Do You Think?

Rape. Vulgar pornography. Torture.

Agree....enough instances of that...more chaff than grains.....

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: What Do You Think?

Remember that ridiculing any religion or blasphemy is NOT freedom of speech but a criminal offense in most places around the world and not just where islamic regulations may be in place.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld200203/ldselect/ldrelof/95/9517.htm

I have already put a warning at the beginning of the thread. Admin will be the judge of TOS violations. So far I am OK. That is why there is an admin.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: What Do You Think?

Rape. Vulgar pornography. Torture.

Then, it seems you have come to the conclusion that god is not omnipotent.

Or am I missing something?

BTW, all 3 you mentioned above are condoned by the god of the Bible which includes the OT.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: What Do You Think?

Then, it seems you have come to the conclusion that god is not omnipotent.

Or am I missing something?

BTW, all 3 you mentioned above are condoned by the god of the Bible which includes the OT.

Tejwant ji

I too am unclear. It would help if we had more context/background I did not know where the questions were coming from. What Ishnaji meant by the questions.

 

[Ishna]

Re: What Do You Think?

Then, it seems you have come to the conclusion that god is not omnipotent.

Or am I missing something?

BTW, all 3 you mentioned above are condoned by the god of the Bible which includes the OT.

PS. By the time I finished writing my post below I realised I may have misinterpreted Tejwant ji's first post which I replied to. Clarification would be appreciated if you have the time, please.
---

Perhaps elaborating on this here will take the thread too far off course. It's a can of worms. Not all of us are blessed with a level of awareness that allows us to see crimes as being inspired by "God". It's all a very deep topic with lots of potential branches.

Perhaps it would sound better if I say 'haumei' is not inspired by "God". Crimes come from 'haumei', I think.

The word 'omnipotent' isn't quite one that I'd use with relation to The Nameless in Sikhi... perhaps I got the wrong end of your previous post in that you're only talking in the context of Yahweh being an omnipotent God? I'm confused now whether your previous post had anything to do with Sikhi at all? Which is probably didn't since it's a Christian thread. Hmm. *goes sits down in the naughty corner*

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: What Do You Think?

PS. By the time I finished writing my post below I realised I may have misinterpreted Tejwant ji's first post which I replied to. Clarification would be appreciated if you have the time, please.
---

Perhaps elaborating on this here will take the thread too far off course. It's a can of worms. Not all of us are blessed with a level of awareness that allows us to see crimes as being inspired by "God". It's all a very deep topic with lots of potential branches.

Perhaps it would sound better if I say 'haumei' is not inspired by "God". Crimes come from 'haumei', I think.

The word 'omnipotent' isn't quite one that I'd use with relation to The Nameless in Sikhi... perhaps I got the wrong end of your previous post in that you're only talking in the context of Yahweh being an omnipotent God? I'm confused now whether your previous post had anything to do with Sikhi at all? Which is probably didn't since it's a Christian thread. Hmm. *goes sits down in the naughty corner*

Ishna ji,

Guru Fateh.

No harm, no foul.

This is the beauty of this forum. We can always have a conversation. My comment/question was directed to Akiva ji's because of his claim below. He does not respond to my queries even when they are directed towards him. He is the one who claimed in one of his initial posts that he would like to have a conversation which we all know does not dwell in a cul de sac.

Originally Posted by akiva
Abneet Ji

As a former Catholic -- the correct phrase should be "the Inspired Word of God" - they hold that the authors of the texts were inspired by God as to what to write.

Akiva

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: I admire your inquisitive mind. Sikhi is all about inquisitiveness- revelation through investigation.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Re: What Do You Think?

Ishna ji thanks for your posts in this thread. I have couple of observations regarding your two posts below.

Rape. Vulgar pornography. Torture.

In terms of these as of bad characterization I believe we need to keep the context. Creator’s creation has constituents that are capable of doing with the capabilities they are given. Such capabilities give one the potential to do all good, some good, bad, lot of bad, etc. So in creation there is also the element of co living, co-existing and the actions have a measure of reaction relative to this. So just as the creation created one to be able to do good and say bad, creation also have given constituents of creation the ability to reward, encourage, be retributive. In the last of these is where the three activities you cited get tackled and addressed as much by the creator and the creation thereof.

Consonant living is the expectation. Rest has implications of being ignored or be subject to retribution per the balances and norms of consonant living with all that is around us.

….. Perhaps it would sound better if I say 'haumei' is not inspired by "God". Crimes come from 'haumei', I think……

Inspiration is consonance. I do believe the inspiration for Haumei perhaps is not part of consonant living or part of consonance that one wants to recognize all around.

The creator did enable us to have wide ranging abilities and disabilities. We do have choices to be enabled/ positive living or negative/non-consonant living. The results of our interactions with all that is around guides us when we get reaction to what we do. It may take years for reaction to materialize or it could be moments. Much of this is very dynamic.

Now getting back to the thread I do not know much about Christianity so my observations, if objectionable or wrong should be attributed to my ignorance and not any malice or blasphemous motive. If Christianity states the following I have difficulty understanding or agreeing,

• One son of God with exclusive revelations
• Magical power of resurrection to raise from the dead
• Selective salvation if you are part of us and heaven awaits, hell otherwise

Regards.
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[akiva]

Re: What Do You Think?

Now the question arises what is NOT inspired by the omnipotent god? Can you shed some light on that please?

Your question seems to assume that free will does not exist.

If one accepts that free will exists, then there is no question -- A person can write whatever they choose to write -- with no divine inspiration.

Or they write under divine inspiration -- where the ideas or the words come from the divine.

Akiva

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: What Do You Think?

Your question seems to assume that free will does not exist.

If one accepts that free will exists, then there is no question -- A person can write whatever they choose to write -- with no divine inspiration.

Or they write under divine inspiration -- where the ideas or the words come from the divine.

Akiva

Akiva ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the post but sad to say it does not answer the question I asked you. Please respond to the question to further this conversation.

I am a bit confused here by your post though.

1.Does free will exist in Christianity or not?

2.What is divine inspiration and how does one come about it? In other words, what is the modus operadi to get this Divine Inspiration?

3.Can any one have this Divine Inspiration?

4.Who is this Divine that you are talking about?

5.Who judges/determines that what a person writes is due to some sort of Divine Inspiration?

6. Is god the one you are talking about who inspires people omnipotent or not?

Many Christians believe that free will is part and parcel of Christianity. Let's take them at their word for the sake of this conversation.

If free will exists, then god ceases to be omnipotent.

Allow me to make it easier to understand what I am trying to express with a couple of examples.

Q. If you had all the money in the world, then who else would have any money?

A. No one else.

Q. If you had all the power in the world, then who else would have any power?

A. No one else.

Free will is power on its own. Hence either god is all powerful, or one has free will.

Take your pick.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[akiva]

Re: What Do You Think?

Tejwant Ji

GurFateh

(NB: This answers an earlier version of Tejwant Ji's post above -- I'll answer the fuller version later)

If free will exists, then god ceases to be omnipotent.

Is not necessarily true -- in part, it depends on how one defines "omnipotent".

And to what extent one believes God interacts/runs the universe. If everything -- from the smallest quantum fluctuation up -- only happens by God's direct control and intervention, then you are right, free will can't exist.

On the other hand, we can allow that certain things/actions, once set in motion will continue without divine intervention - this doesn't reduce God's omnipotence, since he could intervene, but chooses not to (since it's not necessary). An example would be the orbit of a planet around the sun. Or dropping a stone. The movement happens as a result of the nature of space-time.

The simple answer to the free-will question is that God "chooses" to allow free-will.

(Free-will is more of a challenge to Omniscience - but even those challenges have answers)

All the best
Akiva

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: What Do You Think?

This is too confusing for me eacesign:
If God is not conscious, then how does he have all the free will ?

If free will is just power on it's own and either God has it or we have it, then how about the God 'within' us, where does that free will go ?

I'm getting all confused and twisted up like Ishna ji here !

 

[Ishna]

Re: What Do You Think?

None of it can be discussed until the word 'omnipotent' is nailed down. Unfortunately I think it's one of those words that doesn't play well with Sikhi; it conjures images of a divine personality capable of doing what he pleases, when he pleases. This thought doesn't belong in Sikhi.

The laws are set. We have to abide by them. If the Creator isn't conscious, it wouldn't be sitting there micro-managing our affairs, having pre-determined all of our choices and decisions and events in our lives.

We move within the laws provided - we must play the game by the rules, but we can move our pieces as we wish.

IMHO.

But none of this is relevant to the thread. So... *zips lips*