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Pacific United Sikhs Takes Action Against Publication Of Nihang Sikh In Aussi Porn Magazine

spnadmin

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The article about the Nihung is on page 1 - so there's the front cover, the inside front cover with sex-line ads, and opposide that is the Nihung story. That's better than having it in the middle of the magazine with the lesbians and home girls I think haha.

...

The article about the Nihung itself is the kind you'd read about about someone who drives a monster truck, or is sky-diving from a huge height, or goes shark diving, or is a lion tamer, so some other far-out kind of story. The most offensive comment to me personally was the last line 'There is no prize for the biggest turban, but we reckon a free visit to a physio to treat a seriously f***ed up spine wouldn't go astray."

I give it a 2/10 on the richter scale.

Just as I predicted in several posts back. Possible message...Moy macho... "man's man" ...not a lot between his ears ... but definitely adds market share and definitely adds some Sikh mystique ... especially if you understand the hype behind the beginnings of the "martial race" theory. The Brits more than 100 years ago capitalized on that for their own economic ends until the end of the raj. Another opportunity for economic eploitation.

Dear United Sikhs all jio, "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose." Good job! Spot on! Go for it chaps! Warm regards, spnamin
 
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spnadmin

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Wondering why United Sikhs took strong action? It wouldn't have to be a problem with hard-porn, would it? Aren't money and nudity bed-fellows in the media? You don't actually have to be in bed, do you? You just have to be photo shopped side by side.

On a related note: I have to tell a story sometime about the Navajo Nation who took a US-based multi-national apparel company to federal court after putting up with decades of demeaning imagery and exploitation of their image for economic gains. Could United Sikhs be concerned about that -- demeaning imagery and economic gains by big-money corporations? The Navajos won. The multi-national attempted a sneaky strategy. Both sides are now back in court.
 
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Harry Haller

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OK, a few of us are taking offence here !!

Let me first just reassure that this magazine does not seem like a pornographic mag or a typical 'jazmag'.

From what I gather, it looks like what in the UK were called 'lads mags'.
It's not the sort that comes wrapped in cellophane on the top shelf only.

It's a 'typical' mens magazine that have been very successful and on the rise since the 90's..

I think my brother Harry ji also seems to have a better idea of this class of magazine!

It's full of funny true stories, jokes, bad language, nude scenes for humour and not sexual pleasure, fashion disasters,drunken encounters, advice given in an entertaining obscene nature to actual questions by readers...etc.... I think you get the idea.

These magazines are for pure entertainment and other famous one's which I used to enjoy and I'm sure Harry ji did too are....Loaded, Esquire, FHM, Maxim, Zoo, Arena.....to name as a few.

No one reading any of these could ever be offended because they are tongue n cheek humour at the highest !!

I mean in these you get pictures of the Pope's or Obama's head superimposed on something rude and amusing !!

It's all a laugh and joke really and doesn't mean to offend from what I know.

I will be honest though that for some people when they see the cover they think it's a full pornographic magazine.
In my experience I always found that women who would first see the cover and think it's porno would then realise after they saw the contents and would be quite amused.
Infact, I knew many women at work that used to enjoy every new edition that I would bring!!
Most of them would comment and say that it was better than the women mags they had because there was none of the same old gossip, but just pure humour !!!

Its a fair description of this type of magazine, and yes, I used to read them all. The jokes were always good, the articles interesting, it is pure locker room humour. I stopped reading them about 5 years ago, I guess its something you grow out of.

I wonder how many Sikhs were approached at work the next day with maybe the comment ' hey I read about the Nihangs yesterday, solid guys, I never realised Sikhism was so different to the standard eastern religion mould'.



At the end of the day, I am very much interested in the world knowing that Sikhism is a very very different religion, maybe if the world realises it, we ourselves will also recognise it, instead of attacthing limpet like, to any well peddled concept that already exists.

I do understand Adminjis concerns, but I personally feel this sort of spanish inquisition stance belongs to the taliban. We must be able laugh at this sort of thing, and save the anger and hurt for those matters that are bigger than this.
 

spnadmin

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I do understand Adminjis concerns, but I personally feel this sort of spanish inquisition stance belongs to the taliban. We must be able laugh at this sort of thing, and save the anger and hurt for those matters that are bigger than this.

Unfair shot Harry ji! I kept my target right out there: "The Picture" and the porn industry that makes millions. United Sikhs must be taking a similar Taliban stance as well. A Taliban stance applies when outrage is accompanied by demands that expression be stamped out by violence if necessary. Who was asking for that? Who was asking that anything be stamped out? United Sikhs was quite explicit about the need to preserve respect for minorities in a multi-ethnic society, and working within the legal system of Australia. One has to also allow for the possibility that a fair number of people don't see any humor. I am one of them. Or that there are better ways than this to learn about Sikhs and Nihangs. Being generous, laughing it off or saving anger and hurt, well that comes with a big cost... that is what women have been taught to do for centuries. And many a minority group also knows how that works. Laughing and saving don't work. It really doesn't accomplish the aim of being the bigger person. It does lead to believing the myth. That is the part that is not harmless. That's the part that doesn't show. And Nihangs aren't going to make any money from this either, and I wonder if one would ever ask.
 
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Harry Haller

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Unfair shot Harry ji! I kept my target right out there: "The Picture" and the porn industry that makes millions. United Sikhs must be taking a similar Taliban stance as well. A Taliban stance applies when outrage is accompanied by demands that expression be stamped out by violence if necessary. Who was asking for that? Who was asking that anything be stamped out? United Sikhs was quite explicit about the need to preserve respect for minorities in a multi-ethnic society, and working within the legal system of Australia. One has to also allow for the possibility that a fair number of people don't see any humor. I am one of them. Or that there are better ways than this to learn about Sikhs and Nihangs. Being generous, laughing it off or saving anger and hurt, well that comes with a big cost... that is what women have been taught to do for centuries. And many a minority group also knows how that works. Laughing and saving don't work. It really doesn't accomplish the aim of being the bigger person. It does lead to believing the myth. That is the part that is not harmless. That's the part that doesn't show. And Nihangs aren't going to make any money from this either, and I wonder if one would ever ask.


You are correct, the only person mentioning taliban tactics was me! :)

food for thought, I think, it is possible I am looking at a very small picture, and you are seeing a much bigger one,
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

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I would just like to declare that I've never bought such a magazine as it's easier to pinch one and secondly up until today I thought I hadn't been to Australia,thirdly I might change my name to Tasmanian Devil.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Personal confession.

Never bought an adult magazine while adult. Went to a strip club once in Brasil, with lads and ladies. Got bored in 10 mins and walked out. Never had interest is this kind of stuff. Not for any moral reasons, but not my cup of tea.

Porn industry is the fastest growing industry in the morally repressed emerging markets, so called new economies. India is one of the one on the pole position. No pun intended. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/samira-shackle/2012/08/rise-porn-india
One can Google for more sites, if interested.

Child pornography is also very common and prevalent in India. Many Arabs go to the rural areas and pay/buy to marry under teenage girls and take them to their countries. The camel jockeys in the Arab world were all boys from India, Sri Lanka and other Asian countries before. After the sexual abuse came into light which had been happening for years, they forbade that and now we have robotic jockeys.

In India, two of the biggest Porn Kings were Gurdip Singh Chadha -a curt Sird commonly known as Ponty Chadha and his brother Hardeep Singh Chadha, a keshadhari Sikh who killed each other with the guns because of some personal dispute; just like in the Spaghetti Westerns but this time for real. They were also liquor barons, owned sugar industries, had the monopoly for the food for the poor in schools, multiplexes - cinema and many other things, all gotten through bribery of the politicians.

Their porn industry was the fastest growing segment. Their first porn movies were Jism and Jism2 (body), were hits in India via DVD's. The other fastest growing industry in India is the Escort service- high class prostitution and all these girls are from upper middle class families. Sikhs are not immune to this because of the lack of Sikhi values instilled in them, hence it is easier to become the birds of a feather when people have the money and influence.

One more important thing. Many upper middle class married couples are catching Aids in India because the hubbies go to places like Thailand and others nearby India to have fun and transfer the disease to the wives. There is a big stigma of drug addictions and Aids in the emerging middle class families due to the cultural values of shame, and once again, Sikhs are not immune to that. The result of this creates denial rather than looking for cure which is the saddest part. Shame and disgrace,once outed in this kind of society is taken very seriously.

In my personal opinion, more Sikhi values are practiced among the diaspora than in the original place because of personal interests on both sides. The former wants to learn and stand out where as the latter wants to be the part of the bigger crowd. That is why baseball caps rather than dumallas are mode de jour in the Sikhs in India and also outside India where they have not been able to instill Sikhi values in them including in the US. I see many Sikhs wearing caps playing Black Jack or other games in Las Vegas. The funny part is that all the turban wearing Sikhs who play like myself and my family when they visit here for the fashion shows in which they participate in, get many comps and free rooms dinners etc. etc. The irony of standing out, even at the Black Jack table.

We all know the cases of sexual molestations in the Hasidic Jewish community in New York and I assure you it is not only in NY but all over where any religion or religious culture that oppresses and suppresses its people based on this, the hanky panky that takes place in these closed knit communities is due to the power in the hands of the few, shame and fearless mentality that it would stay in the community.

So, I would suggest United Sikhs who have done a great job in other fields of helping others should not veer from that course.

Thus, the way Ishna ji mentioned about the magazine and the nastiest remark was about spine straightening because of the weight of the long Nihang style turban on the head does not seem offensive to me but rather a genuine concern with levity.

Tejwant Singh
 
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Ishna

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Admin ji is also getting me thinking of the bigger picture a bit more. I will however still maintain that the magazine is not conscious of having done anything more sinister than put up an article they thought their readers would find funny.

I guess it's the potential flow-on effect from that which is damaging.
 

spnadmin

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Ishna ji

My thoughts turn on several subjects. Right now I am struggling with the issue of "situational ethics." I will try to be really brief. Morality is about telling people what to do, what not to do. Ethics is about how one should think through a moral choice, if there is a choice. The ethics of the thread topic interests me. I give a fig whether people read or buy the mag. They are free to choose.

Neither I nor United Sikhs are focused on the morality of the porno issue. That would be a moral fixation. Yes bordering on Taliban behavior. United Sikhs is focused on the impact of the picture on Sikh identity, the identity of Sikhs as a minority in a multicultural society. I am concerned about the impact of the picture on several fronts, including using imagery to distort identities for financial gain. My question is about ethics. Is the ethical impact of placing of nudes around a picture of a Nihang any different if the porn is soft (versus hard core) or whether a story is about the "Nihang as guy" or whether the jokes are funny or whether porn has any educational value. Is the ethical call dependent on how harmful or harmless the surrounding context?

Ishna ij, I say yes to this "magazine is not conscious of having done anything more sinister than put up an article they thought their readers would find funny." They are unconscious about a lot of things, but not about money.

To understand whether something is more or less harmful, do we need to look at the harm that is done? Not that brief of me after all.
 
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Harry Haller

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Adminji

I have a slightly different take, although I respect your view and consider it sound and sane.

Porn is becoming quite mainstream these days, certain lifestyles are becoming more mainstream, it is of course unfortunate that these events have accelerated at the very time that my own life has become more focused on animals, intimacy, love, romance.

I think a seperate thread about the dangers of porn and its associated lifestyle would be a good one, but for the moment, the Nihang....

Personally speaking, if the page concerned had a glowing tribute to the Nihang as a model man, surrounded by a few images, that would not have been a huge deal to me, given the world we live in, a page full of heterosexual imagery, guns, women, cars, nihangs, I could have lived with that, its hardly positive imagery, but a part of me would have been happy that nihangs are accepted and lauded as fantasy male role models, in essence, you would not see a Islamic warrior lauded in the same way, but there is a certain, 'but them Sikhs, they are ok' mentality that I would have found refreshing.

However, the article is not a positive awe written article, I found it mocking and tongue in cheek. It was not written lauding the warrior aspect, in fact it was not written for any other reason other that the Nihang in question had a massive turban. I consider myself quite liberal, but I found it insulting.

And now the images, the images, in this instance are the icing on the cake, they reinforce the 'us and them' mentality, they wear huge silly turbans that make them look like chupa chups, we have sexy beautiful women, come see!

Sikhs should not be treated like some sort of freak show to be paraded next to such imagery, this is not a positive article, its someone laughing at us.

Instead of an apology, I would like to see a few pages, without imagery, devoted to a positive description of the Nihangs and Nihang practices, as it stands, the only education here is that Nihangs wear silly big blue turbans.
 

Harry Haller

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I think its when I see a post from a member with a Khanda stuck on a Hindu Idol, defending a sect that prakashes the DG, lauding a Vedic concept that does not even belong in Sikhism, that I have to take a very deep breath and wonder why I am even wasting time on this argument.....
 

Kamala

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May 26, 2011
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It's just a image; not a idol.
I'm not even going to bother arguing, you won't understand; there are many Sikh Gurudwaras with images like this.
I didn't make this image btw.
 

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