Understanding Gurbani

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Surinder Jee!

Quote "AND DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU SAHIB SACHE PAATSHAH IS SAYING".
May I ask why suddenly the word GRANTH is missing in your writings?

Quote "Honrable yourself is against copy paste and hard paper copies......... WHEN BANI APPEARS IN YOUR POSTS:
WHAT TECHNIQUE YOU ARE USING??? PLEASE SHARE, COMPUTER GEEKS WILL BE VERY GLAD TO KNOW ABOUT THIS SECTRET,
thanks in advance........."
Please do not envy Sikh80 Jee. You may not surpass him by copying and pasting translations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee as you are now careful not adding those in your post. All miss but your understanding of the true Guru's Vaaks.
Somebody complained why Bihaarees working in printing press are not so knowledgeable as Sikh Pandits who never shared in the creation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.
I am also surprised why copy and pasting masters are asking strange questions.

**************

In my experience, the true Guru's message is "come to know true Simran," not copy and printing their message in a big number.

**************

Please do not try to get rid of your big earnings of curses through your posts. True Naam Simran is the best way for it.

**************

Dear Namjap Jee, Baanee is Nirankaar. That is true.
I do not know if the true Gurus have ever said that printed matter is also Nirankaar.


Balbir Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Balbir ji

How do you include bani in posts if you don't copy and paste?

 

[Astroboy]

Koye Bole Ram Ram
Koye Khudaye
...................
..................
"Some people call you Ram, others call You Khudaa. Some serve Gosain, some Allah. O Merciful Creator and Doer, have mercy upon me. Some bathe at holy places and others go for hujj. Some do pooja, others bow their heads. Some read the Vedas, others the Books. Some wear blue, others white. Some call themselves Muslims, others Hindus. Some seek bahisht, some suarg. O Nanak, say; whosoever has understood the Hukam (Divine order), has learnt the secret of God, the Master." [1, page 885]


What is happening in this debate according to my understanding :-

Balbir Singh Ji has many times pointed out that many sikhs considers the book (Granth) - the printed pages (not the wisdom therein) as the Guru. Therefore it is idol worship.

Balbir Singh Ji also has countless times mentioned that the message (wisdom) imparted by the Gurus - as recorded in the Granth Sahib - is not Bani - but a reference made to the real Bani.
(He has received opposing comments).

Balbir Singh Ji has further championed his cause by saying that Gurmantar is not Waheguru - but he never mentions whether the Gurmantar is a word or not. He also says that there is no reference of Waheguru to be the Gurmantar by all the 10 Gurus during their lifetime.

Balbir Singh Ji has at times said that without the Satguru you can never be given the Naam - that leads to Mukti (Liberation). He supports his claims with numerous verses from the Granth Sahib.
(He has received loudly voiced opposition)

Summarized by Santokh Singh
(without fear no favor)

 

[simpy]

Veer Balbir Ji de Bachan:

I do not know if the true Gurus have ever said that printed matter is also Nirankaar.

Veer Balbir Ji,

HOW COME PRINTER MATTER IS NOT NIRANKAAR???---- WHERE ANY SANT MAHATMA GURU BHAGAT is singing this???????




you are also agreeing "I dont know if"..... this is strange....doubting yourself...............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



WHEN
Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji De Panna # 724

Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Arjan Dev Ji Sache Patshah is singing writing and conveying:

quDu ibnu dUjw nwhI koie ]


how printer is some second entity for a Gurbhagat??????

your statement:

In my experience, the true Guru's message is "come to know true Simran," not copy and printing their message in a big number.

tells that you are posing to be an expert of true simran..................... this is what happen when people follow Gurbani haters............... they dont know what BANI is, Bani's precious message is, AND ARE UNABLE TO SEE THE ALL PERVADING

and Dhan Dhan Guru Sahib Sache Paatshah is singing :

Awpy mCulI Awpy jwlw ]
Awpy gaU Awpy rKvwlw ]
khqw bkqw suxqw soeI Awpy bxq bxweI hy ]

Awpy jlu Qlu swgru srvru ]

kyqy qyry rUp rMg kyqy jwiq Ajwiq ]

vrn rUp vrqih sB qyry ]

inrgunu Awip srgunu BI EhI ]
klw Dwir ijin sglI mohI ]
Apny cirq pRiB Awip bnwey ]
ApunI kImiq Awpy pwey ]
hir ibnu dUjw nwhI koie ]
srb inrMqir eyko soie ]
Eiq poiq rivAw rUp rMg ]
Bey pRgws swD kY sMg ]
ric rcnw ApnI kl DwrI ]
Aink bwr nwnk bilhwrI ]


MERE VEER WHO ELSE AND WHAT ELSE IS THERE WITHOUT WAHEGURU/GURU/PARMATMA////?????..................

humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness

 

[Astroboy]

A philosophic approach to Gurudwara activities (Daily Life)
· In Sikh religion, going regularly to Gurudwara is very important.
· In the Gurudwara, we do many activities.
· But what is the hidden philosophic meaning behind these activities?
· By understanding the deeper meaning, we can perform these activities with greater commitment.

Bowing the head:
· To stop using our incorrect mind; and to use the wisdom of our Gurus.
· Also, to surrender ourselves to the will of Guru.
· 'Gur ki mat tu le iyanne'. (Sukmani sahib)
· 'Aisi mat deeje mere thaakur, sadaa, sadaa tudh dhiyaai'. (673).
· 'Tu samrath vadaa, meri mat thodi raam'. (547).

• [FONT=Book Antiqua,Times New Roman]
  [*]‘Gun gaavat, teri utraes mael’ – Sukhmani Sahib.
  [*]‘Wahu Wahu kartiyaa, mann nirmal hove; haume vitcho jae’ (SGGS: 515).
  [*]‘Wahu Wahu kartiyaa prabhu paiyeea’ (SGGS: 514).

• ‘Wahu Wahu gur-sikh jo nit kare; so man chindiya phal payee’ (SGGS: 515).

[/FONT]

 

[Sikh80]

I had started the thread for the clarification and meaning of two lines. I have yet to receive the answer.

 

[Astroboy]

DEAR FORUM LEADERS please delete anything that you think inappropreate under forum rules from me neech's above two posts: as i been going on and on this time CAREFREE MINDED, baee guru di gal hai, it is hard for guru lovers to STOP...............................

humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness

Surinder Ji,
It is my duty to remind you of personal attacks against fellow members.


Santokh Singh

 

[International Akaali]

gurmuiK vsqu vyswhIAY scu vKru scu rwis ] (18-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
The Gurmukhs purchase the Genuine Article. The True Merchandise is purchased with the True Capital.
ijnI scu vxMijAw gur pUry swbwis ] (18-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Those who purchase this True Merchandise through the Perfect Guru are blessed.

-
The above lines refer to TRUE Merchandise and Genuine Article, TRUE Capital. What are these things that Guru Sahibaan are pointing at.?

Das Shall be grateful as ever for an explanation.

The answer to this question as per my understanding is that naam is the sacha sauda. The real purchase is only made through the one and only akaal. All other purchases are false and do not have any merit. The only purchase which is true is naam. And through this purchasse of naam can only be attainted through the guru.

this is the understanding i got from these two lines. However Veerji/Bhanjee whenever we look at a specific thuks its best to look at the entire shabad and to highlight those that you have questions on. As sometimes it is difficult to base the understanding off 2 lines because you need the entire shabad to get the bhav aarth.

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

Quote from International Akaali Jee "The real purchase is only made through the one and only akaal."
May I ask who is the seller and what God needs to purchase?

Quote "The only purchase which is true is naam."
Is the true Sikh a buyer who has purchased Naam?

Quote "And through this purchasse of naam can only be attainted through the guru."
Please guide all. In which Mall is the Guru's shop?

Quote "this is the understanding i got from these two lines. However Veerji/Bhanjee whenever we look at a specific thuks its best to look at the entire shabad and to highlight those that you have questions on. As sometimes it is difficult to base the understanding off 2 lines because you need the entire shabad to get the bhav aarth."
In my experience, God is highly appreciating each word of the Guru's Vaak. One who receives ONE Sabad from the true Guru understands not only His Vaak but His existence too.


Balbir Singh

 

[International Akaali]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

Quote from International Akaali Jee "The real purchase is only made through the one and only akaal."
May I ask who is the seller and what God needs to purchase?

Quote "The only purchase which is true is naam."
Is the true Sikh a buyer who has purchased Naam?

Quote "And through this purchasse of naam can only be attainted through the guru."
Please guide all. In which Mall is the Guru's shop?

Quote "this is the understanding i got from these two lines. However Veerji/Bhanjee whenever we look at a specific thuks its best to look at the entire shabad and to highlight those that you have questions on. As sometimes it is difficult to base the understanding off 2 lines because you need the entire shabad to get the bhav aarth."
In my experience, God is highly appreciating each word of the Guru's Vaak. One who receives ONE Sabad from the true Guru understands not only His Vaak but His existence too.


Balbir Singh

Balbir Singh i don't know why you get so confused. You keep twisting your words together and try to make an argument out of it. THIS is used as an example and is not the literal meaning. Do you not get what an example also called similie or metaphor in the english language. This is the same thing.

The seller is guru sahib as only through guru can you recieve the true purchase. Yes the True sikh is the buyer. He is buying anything with money however with pyaar. He is buying naam raas and the only way you can buy it is through the contemplation of the updesh of guru sahib.

AGAIN I REPEAT THIS IS NOT A LITERAL MEANING. This is what you call bhav of the shabad. Some shabads literal meanings will be the same as bhav. some where the literal meanings will be not the same as bhav. The meanings which fit gurus shabad through out guru sahib bani should be accepted. Go back to the mangala charan of ikongkar satnam karta purkh nirbhau nirvair akaal moorth ajooni saibhang gurparsaaad for further clarification or it is good to go through guru granth sahib ji and find your answer as it is everyones own mission to do so. Gurbani is never ending ocean


Balbir says: "In my experience, God is highly appreciating each word of the Guru's Vaak. One who receives ONE Sabad from the true Guru understands not only His Vaak but His existence too."

Balbir singh you are mistaken. Go and read sidh ghosht. When the sidhs are questioning guru sahib are you going to say that is what guru sahib is saying?
The sidhs are asking guru sahib a question and in the following lines guru sahib is giving an answer. If the sidhs are making a comment which is against gurmat and in shri guru granth sahib and in the same shabad guru sahib is giving an answer to that what are you going to say that the sidhs are teaching gurmat and we should comtemplate those questions or comments raised by the sidhs in our daily lives? We have to look at the entire shabad balbir in some circumstances.

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and International Akaali Jee!

Thanks for your post. Please accompany me in this Satsang further.

Quote "Do you not get what an example also called similie or metaphor in the english language. This is the same thing. "
People perhaps do not understand Guru's Vaak and call it a simile or metaphor.
The true Gurus speak truth. Truth does not need a simile or metaphor to express.

Quote "The seller is guru sahib as only through guru can you recieve the true purchase."
Please provide a reference from Gurdev where they have said so. I will be grateful.

Quote "Yes the True sikh is the buyer. He is buying anything with money however with pyaar. He is buying naam raas and the only way you can buy it is through the contemplation of the updesh of guru sahib."
I cannot imagine that the true Gurus converted a person into a buyer and trained him, purchasing with pyaar.

Quote "AGAIN I REPEAT THIS IS NOT A LITERAL MEANING."
I feel the same. Vesaahee-ai does not mean purchase
. Many have translated it so though.

Quote "The meanings which fit gurus shabad through out guru sahib bani should be accepted."
This is what preacher and translators are doing. Is it not so?
Truth does not have different meanings.

Quote "Go back to the mangala charan of ikongkar satnam karta purkh nirbhau nirvair akaal moorth ajooni saibhang gurparsaaad for further clarification or it is good to go through guru granth sahib ji and find your answer as it is everyones own mission to do so."
Who is your Guru who said it is Mangala Charan?

Quote "Balbir singh you are mistaken. Go and read sidh ghosht. When the sidhs are questioning guru sahib are you going to say that is what guru sahib is saying?"
Is it really so? Guru Sahib did not say this. Who else told about this dialogue?

Quote "The sidhs are asking guru sahib a question and in the following lines guru sahib is giving an answer. If the sidhs are making a comment which is against gurmat and in shri guru granth sahib and in the same shabad guru sahib is giving an answer to that what are you going to say that the sidhs are teaching gurmat and we should comtemplate those questions or comments raised by the sidhs in our daily lives? We have to look at the entire shabad balbir in some circumstances."
In my experience, those are stages of the conscious mind. Siddha's asking is one stage. The answer from Gurdev is the developed stage.
Rarely someone finds him at the developed conscious mind as Gurdev answers.

**************

Vesaahu means confirmation (yakeen) that arises after true experience of Naam.

Gurdev is singing.
gur muiK vsqu vyswhIAY scu vKru scu rwis ] (18-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Knowledge through the mouth is the thing for own experience. (That) Truth is never perishing. (That) Truth is capital.

Truth convinces a person only after he has experienced Truth. Getting this experience is vesaahee-ai.
The origin of the word Khar is the Sanskrit word Chhar, perishable. Vakharu is something different that is not perishable. Similarly Akhar does not perish. Truth does not perish either.
Similarly Vesaahu is the true experience.

Everyone can now go through the revered Guru's Vaaks where the above words occur and enjoy the essence of those at different level of consciousness.

Let this be another present to the whole world of spiritually growing people who love to have Satsang with Gurbaanee.


Balbir Singh

 

[International Akaali]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and International Akaali Jee!

Thanks for your post. Please accompany me in this Satsang further.

Quote "Do you not get what an example also called similie or metaphor in the english language. This is the same thing. "
People perhaps do not understand Guru's Vaak and call it a simile or metaphor.
The true Gurus speak truth. Truth does not need a simile or metaphor to express.

Quote "The seller is guru sahib as only through guru can you recieve the true purchase."
Please provide a reference from Gurdev where they have said so. I will be grateful.

Quote "Yes the True sikh is the buyer. He is buying anything with money however with pyaar. He is buying naam raas and the only way you can buy it is through the contemplation of the updesh of guru sahib."
I cannot imagine that the true Gurus converted a person into a buyer and trained him, purchasing with pyaar.

Quote "AGAIN I REPEAT THIS IS NOT A LITERAL MEANING."
I feel the same. Vesaahee-ai does not mean purchase
. Many have translated it so though.

Quote "The meanings which fit gurus shabad through out guru sahib bani should be accepted."
This is what preacher and translators are doing. Is it not so?
Truth does not have different meanings.

Quote "Go back to the mangala charan of ikongkar satnam karta purkh nirbhau nirvair akaal moorth ajooni saibhang gurparsaaad for further clarification or it is good to go through guru granth sahib ji and find your answer as it is everyones own mission to do so."
Who is your Guru who said it is Mangala Charan?

Quote "Balbir singh you are mistaken. Go and read sidh ghosht. When the sidhs are questioning guru sahib are you going to say that is what guru sahib is saying?"
Is it really so? Guru Sahib did not say this. Who else told about this dialogue?

Quote "The sidhs are asking guru sahib a question and in the following lines guru sahib is giving an answer. If the sidhs are making a comment which is against gurmat and in shri guru granth sahib and in the same shabad guru sahib is giving an answer to that what are you going to say that the sidhs are teaching gurmat and we should comtemplate those questions or comments raised by the sidhs in our daily lives? We have to look at the entire shabad balbir in some circumstances."
In my experience, those are stages of the conscious mind. Siddha's asking is one stage. The answer from Gurdev is the developed stage.
Rarely someone finds him at the developed conscious mind as Gurdev answers.

**************

Vesaahu means confirmation (yakeen) that arises after true experience of Naam.

Gurdev is singing.
gur muiK vsqu vyswhIAY scu vKru scu rwis ] (18-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Knowledge through the mouth is the thing for own experience. (That) Truth is never perishing. (That) Truth is capital.

Truth convinces a person only after he has experienced Truth. Getting this experience is vesaahee-ai.
The origin of the word Khar is the Sanskrit word Chhar, perishable. Vakharu is something different that is not perishable. Similarly Akhar does not perish. Truth does not perish either.
Similarly Vesaahu is the true experience.

Everyone can now go through the revered Guru's Vaaks where the above words occur and enjoy the essence of those at different level of consciousness.

Let this be another present to the whole world of spiritually growing people who love to have Satsang with Gurbaanee.


Balbir Singh

That is your choice if you do need to use similies or metaphors. So what are you saying guru sahib is not capable of having diffrent writing styles? You are right the guru does speak truth and they can speak it through metaphors and similies why do you have an objection to this?

The refrence is above. Guru sahib is the only person who can give us naam.

You cant your imagination is very limited so what can i do? Like i said before and said again whats your objection?

Wait hold on a second, sometimes you say guru sahib doesnt need metaphors and similies and now you say veesahai is a metaphor? Why are you saying this? You can't have a double standard and say sometimes I like metaphor when i want to and sometimes i dont when i dont feel as though it fits my cult views?

Do you got a problem with calling it mangla charan? what do you want to call it mool mantar? or some other name. Go look up what mangla charan.

Dont act on double standard, either say there is no metaphors and similies used in guru granth sahib and then you say HEY VEESAHAAI means metaphor.

The main concept behind the shabad is to become drowned in naam which is only obtained through the guru. As this is the only true purchase. I dont know why you find this so objectionable it is a very straight forward concept. Oh wait theres no point in reading Shri guru granth sahib ji to you as you think it is just a waste of time. As quoted before on this forum. So why do you keep refrencing guru sahibs bani over and over again when it is a waste of time to read over 1430 pages to you balbir?

 

[Sikh80]

sMq srin jo jnu prY so jnu auDrnhwr ] (279-13, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
One who seeks the Sanctuary of the Saints shall be saved.
sMq kI inMdw nwnkw bhuir bhuir Avqwr ]1] (279-13, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
One who slanders the Saints, O Nanak, shall be reincarnated over and over again. ||1||

 

[Sikh80]

(515-17, mÚ 3)
Waaho! Waaho! is the Bani, the Word, of the Formless Lord. There is no other as great as He is.

 

[Sikh80]

(562-16mÚ 5)
True is Your Mantra, Ambrosial is the Bani of Your Word.

 

[Sikh80]

(564-18)
True is the Bani of His Word, and True is the melody; True is contemplative meditation on the Word of the Shabad.

 

[Sikh80]

Are They Leading Sikhs Away From The Guru? - DiscoverSikhi.Com




Pl. visit the link.

 

[spnadmin]

WoW!! Sikh80 ji,

The link shed light on many things that have puzzled me since I joined SPN -- context for conversations that have taken place here. I want to say that there were some very sharp people keeping that dialog focused on Gurmat.

 

[spnadmin]

International Akaali ji

Is there some way, some format, by which you would be able to TEACH those of us who are converts to Sikhi, and those born Sikh, so that we could get the benefit of your clear, logical, uncomplicated understanding of Gurbani. What I envision is a kind of weekly conversation on a topic that is not too basic, not too advanced --- similar to the topic of this thread. You would start off with a brief essay posted ahead of time (all of this online in the forum) and then some of us would ask you questions and even have a dialog back and forth. Not a chat room! But an online discussion where people log on, post a question, or respond to a question that you ask of us.

Every other week or so, the Group could discuss what the next topic would be.

Would this perhaps work in one of SPNs GROUPS which you find on the links to left of this page?

Wondering what other SPN members think of this idea?

 

[International Akaali]

International Akaali ji

Is there some way, some format, by which you would be able to TEACH those of us who are converts to Sikhi, and those born Sikh, so that we could get the benefit of your clear, logical, uncomplicated understanding of Gurbani. What I envision is a kind of weekly conversation on a topic that is not too basic, not too advanced --- similar to the topic of this thread. You would start off with a brief essay posted ahead of time (all of this online in the forum) and then some of us would ask you questions and even have a dialog back and forth. Not a chat room! But an online discussion where people log on, post a question, or respond to a question that you ask of us.

Every other week or so, the Group could discuss what the next topic would be.

Would this perhaps work in one of SPNs GROUPS which you find on the links to left of this page?

Wondering what other SPN members think of this idea?

Das is just a sewak of guru sahib as I myself is trying to do gur sewa on my part to be together with one. With the budhi i have i try to do the best I can. I know Singhs and Bhanjees that know much more then me i am just an ant compared to them.

I think it is great that discussions of guru sahibs bani are going on over time. I was thinking of an idea of we can start a new group in which we can have discussions on diffrent shabads from gurbani. And have larrevaar discussions on it. We do the same at gurdwara sahib and have been doing it so for a while looking at diffrent teekas and having a discussion on it as a group. And sometimes come up with diffrent discussion where the teekas didnt even it do it the way which was discussed upon. This is the ultimate goal is to do veechar on guru sahibs shabad and when going home apply this shabad in your daily lives and live a life according to the guru.

I think if we start from Jap Ji Sahib and start going on and having discussion for example each pauri or shabad than that would be a great idea.

And another group as you said for those who have questions as per gurbani for those who have questions as there are several singhs/kaurs here who are capable of answering questions and having discussion upon guru shabad.

Balbir and his "sword of truth" is also known as the "sword of confusion" as no one understand you including myself dont understand you as well. You are confusing and go around in circles. No ones apreciates your constant insults towards guru granth sahib ji.

We can come up with diffrent ideas as to how we can have gurbani veechar.

Regards