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To Cover Our Heads Or Not?

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Some comments if these add to dialog.

Adherent(s): Agnostic (seeker3k); lionsingh (Hedonism)


"There is no where in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that we must cover the head or take shoes off. Thos who wish to do that let them those who don’t want to do it let them keep it on or head not cover."

Unfortunately you have not understood nor you believe in the basic definition of a Sikh,

Quote:
is`K dI qwrI&
jo iesqrI jW purS iek Akwl purK, ds gurU swihbwn (sRI gurU nwnk dyv jI qoN lY ky sRI gurU goibMd isMG swihb qk), sRI gurU gRMQ swihb Aqy ds gurU swihbwn dI bwxI qy is`iKAw Aqy dsmyS jI dy AMimRq au`qy inScw r`Kdw hY Aqy iksy hor Drm nUM nhIN mMNndw, auh is`K hY[

Examplification of a Sikh
The woman or man who believes in one creator, ten Gurus (Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji to Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji), Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and the Gurbani of ten Gurus and their teachings and has belief in Baptization of the pure of Dashmesh ji and does not believe in another religion, is a Sikh.
Believing in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is part of being a Sikh but not the only part.
Tomorrow same arguments espoused by seeker3k ji and like will say,


  • Where does Gurbani say that one should take Aspirin" for Headache as I prefer to drink instead.
    • Gurbani is for developing understanding, seeking wisdom and be in consonance with one creator
      • Hopefully this allows for proper development of brain to put to worldly use in balanced ways than create crazy logic "Show me where it is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji!"
Read Sikh Rehat Maryada if you have issues as well to clarify.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

seeker3k

SPNer
May 24, 2008
316
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canada
I asked to show any slok in SGGS that say we must cover head or remove shoes.

After 10th guru died their was kayos. Soon after there were many hukam nawas written. May of them were rejected but some still are being accepted.
Believe what u may but build your believe on the truth. Don’t get mixed up in that I am impling to SGGS. Keep to the topic.

Do you have any proof that any guru wrote any slok that we must cover head or remove shoes?
 

seeker3k

SPNer
May 24, 2008
316
241
canada
This is nothing more then brahminic retual nothing more. The turban maybe guru's, but does it have to do with the question.

Content deleted. What is the connection between wearing a turban and worship of idols? None explained so far. The first point is fair enough. spnadmin
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
I have removed some comments that were taking the discussion in circles, and were more like a quarrel than a debate.

imho it is relevant to bring up rehitnamas from the time following Guru Gobind Singh, which are now basically defunct, but whose tenets in some cases persisted down to the present and may even be part of the Sikh Rehat Maryada. The debate needs to focus on the question of head covering in the context of rehits, culture, history, and whether these are reflected in SGGS or not. Otherwise, all that is left is a quarrel.
 

Kanwaljit.Singh

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Jan 29, 2011
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Vancouver, Canada
Dear Agnostic Seeker3k,

This is nothing more then brahminic retual nothing more. The turban maybe guru's, but does it have to do with the question.

First of all, you are poking questions only to confuse people and maybe stop from stuff they have been practicing. If you wish to not have a turban and proclaim yourself a Sikh, go ahead. Let me tell you, things in Guru's Sikhi are deep and meaningful such that anyone trying to look from outside or surface, cannot even get iota of it. There are hundreds of thousands of Guru's Sikhs who wear turbans (including bibiyaan who are rediscovering it) and they never question it. For they know the reasons. THEY PRACTICE AND THEY KNOW THE REASON. So making you understand would be like telling you 64 attacks with Sri Sahib while you may even not have held a Kirpan in your hand. And yes, those 64 attacks are not described in Guru Granth Sahib. Yet they are preserved and are as much part of our Sikh education as 5 Kakkaar.

When you brought up the stuff about removing shoes, I searched and found this. I would have done your Nindaa and sinned, but this makes me giggle :D

ਨਾਨਕ ਫਿਕੈ ਬੋਲਿਐ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਫਿਕਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
O Nanak, speaking insipid words, the body and mind become insipid.

ਫਿਕੋ ਫਿਕਾ ਸਦੀਐ ਫਿਕੇ ਫਿਕੀ ਸੋਇ ॥
He is called the most insipid of the insipid; the most insipid of the insipid is his reputation.

ਫਿਕਾ ਦਰਗਹ ਸਟੀਐ ਮੁਹਿ ਥੁਕਾ ਫਿਕੇ ਪਾਇ ॥
The insipid person is discarded in the Court of the Lord, and the insipid one's face is spat upon.

ਫਿਕਾ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਆਖੀਐ ਪਾਣਾ ਲਹੈ ਸਜਾਇ ॥੧॥
The insipid one is called a fool; he is beaten with shoes in punishment.

Anyway, our Ten Masters had shown the highest respect for Guru Granth Sahib. They took shoes off in Guru Granth Sahib's presence and they wore a Turban as symbol of Guru Granth Sahib's greatness beyond words and Waheguru's Creation. And of course, it is not written in Guru Granth Sahib, how to respect Guru Granth Sahib. That is something started and followed and maintained by Ten Gurus and Their Sikhs. And if someone talks about bringing down that standard of respect, he is in big trouble :D

Should you still choose to reply, you are welcome :D
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Kanwaljit Singh ji

The shabad you posted is a saloka on Ang 473. The translation is by Sant Singh Khalsa, MD.

I would appreciate it if you would offer to this discussion a paragraph or two in which you explain what you believe Guru Nanak means. Otherwise it seems, standing alone by itself, that Guru Nanak is in the habit of calling people names. What issue is Guru Nanak seeking to stress? What is he trying to say? What lesson should we learn from the salok, and the surrounding portions of the shabad? Thank you.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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BTW, forum members. What do you think?

Look at an alternative translation by Bhai Manmoha Singh.

Notice how Bhai Manmohan Singh has never used the word "insipid." Also he does not repeat one attribute, "insipid," throughout the saloka, the way Sant Singh Khalsa has done. I
nstead he uses adverbs/adjectives such as: dryly, dry, evil, sour-tongued, harsh.

Why so different? Perhaps the shabad needs closer study. Does the word "insipid" capture the meaning completely?



ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥
सलोकु मः १ ॥
Salok mėhlā 1.
Slok 1st Guru.

ਨਾਨਕ ਫਿਕੈ ਬੋਲਿਐ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਫਿਕਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
नानक फिकै बोलिऐ तनु मनु फिका होइ ॥
Nānak fikai boli▫ai ṯan man fikā ho▫e.
Nanak, by speaking dryly, the soul and body become dry (evil).

ਫਿਕੋ ਫਿਕਾ ਸਦੀਐ ਫਿਕੇ ਫਿਕੀ ਸੋਇ ॥
फिको फिका सदीऐ फिके फिकी सोइ ॥
Fiko fikā saḏī▫ai fike fikī so▫e.
He is called the most evil of the evil and the most evil is his reputation.

ਫਿਕਾ ਦਰਗਹ ਸਟੀਐ ਮੁਹਿ ਥੁਕਾ ਫਿਕੇ ਪਾਇ ॥
फिका दरगह सटीऐ मुहि थुका फिके पाइ ॥
Fikā ḏargėh satī▫ai muhi thukā fike pā▫e.
The sour-tongued persons is discarded in God's court and the evil one's face is spat upon.

ਫਿਕਾ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਆਖੀਐ ਪਾਣਾ ਲਹੈ ਸਜਾਇ ॥੧॥
फिका मूरखु आखीऐ पाणा लहै सजाइ ॥१॥
Fikā mūrakẖ ākẖī▫ai pāṇā lahai sajā▫e. ||1||
The harsh man is called a fool and he receives shoe-beating as punishment.
 

Harwinder

SPNer
Apr 4, 2011
48
48
when we eneter our own house we dont bring shoes in why? Well i dont so i dont dirty my carpet or the floor; the shoes are dirty. A house is a place where you grow up and learn; its where life happens. Same as gurudawara its where rests the teachings of the great gurus the life lesson that we must fallow. It is also considerd our home where the 11th Guru is. Its a matter of respect and commen sense in a way weather it says that in the shri guru grant saib or not.
 

Kanwaljit.Singh

Writer
SPNer
Jan 29, 2011
1,502
2,173
Vancouver, Canada
In Canada, there is almost a custom to take off shoes before entering a house. And a Kitchen is truly off limits. But when some Sikhs enter the Kitchen of Guru (ie Langar hall), they would like to come in with shoes. Why this discrimination against your own Guru? This is virtually like signing a Bedava.
 

Harwinder

SPNer
Apr 4, 2011
48
48
I agree with you on this i always wondered why it was ok to wear shoes in the lungar hall. I mean come on that is where we eat.
 
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