The Despicable Ego

[sachchasoda]

Only by eliminating ego, more accurate perspective of nature can be realized. And Guru Ji tells us time and again why and how to let EGO go:

isrIrwgu mhlw 3 ]
jig haumY mYlu duKu pwieAw mlu lwgI dUjY Bwie ]
mlu haumY DoqI ikvY n auqrY jy sau qIrQ nwie ]
bhu ibiD krm kmwvdy dUxI mlu lwgI Awie ]
piVAY mYlu n auqrY pUChu igAwnIAw jwie ]1]
mn myry gur srix AwvY qw inrmlu hoie ]
mnmuK hir hir kir Qky mYlu n skI Doie ]1] rhwau ]
min mYlY Bgiq n hoveI nwmu n pwieAw jwie ]
mnmuK mYly mYly muey jwsin piq gvwie ]
gur prswdI min vsY mlu haumY jwie smwie ]
ijau AMDyrY dIpku bwlIAY iqau gur igAwin AigAwnu qjwie ]2]
hm kIAw hm krhgy hm mUrK gwvwr ]
krxY vwlw ivsirAw dUjY Bwie ipAwru ]
mwieAw jyvfu duKu nhI siB Biv Qky sMswru ]
gurmqI suKu pweIAY scu nwmu aur Dwir ]3]
ijs no myly so imlY hau iqsu bilhwrY jwau ]
ey mn BgqI riqAw scu bwxI inj Qwau ]
min rqy ijhvw rqI hir gux scy gwau ]
nwnk nwmu n vIsrY scy mwih smwau ]4]

Sadh Sangat Ji Bhul Chuk Maaf Karna Ji

 

[kaur-1]

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[Randip Singh]

I am not rejecting the gurbarni.
You think with the heart not the mind. So my views are puddled. Who is sain? The one that only can argue. Thats easy even kids can do that. Talk maturely. They called my guru insane. Yet i follow guru nanak whole heartedly. Me saying guru is not god. Is not rejecting guru's teachings. Me saying the gurbarni is right is not going against any of my thoughts. Guru DID NOT CALL HIMSELF GOD. U DISRESPECT GOD> You teach me something other than slanging match.
Meera baba mai bowra, mai bowra, subb kulck suyarni
I'll tell you the difference in our thoughts.

If i were to ask you what you had eaten today you would for examples sake; may say, roti, apple, grapes a whole list of things
In return i would say you eat mitdhi (soil)
You would turn around again and say mr Parma ji I had eaten and go through the list again.
In return I would reply you eat mitdhi
Still you wont understand as to you all you would see is the food but wont realise the source.
So I'll explain.
Before the food, came the mitdhi. The food is from the mitdhi it is grown from a mix of seeds and water. But it takes form and is apart of the mitdhi. Then you will go to the toilet and the food will come out as your feaces and become again once more mitdhi.
To you, your body your mind you had eaten food but when you look deep and at reality in truth its just mitdhi.
I could go on deeper into this and my thoughts. I just feel no one will understand. I know you might find some of it funny. Its just an exmple. The key to my understanding is in the message. Look at the message.
You go on your path and I go on mine. Wherever you end up hope you find peace of mind.

Mr Parma, a great reply, and excellent answer. You have summed up the teachings of Bani nicely. Guru's are not God. Guru's were God realised human beings....i.e. they had attuned themselves to God ....much like Jesus, Mohammed, Moses, Buddha etc . Perhaps initially you used the wrong word to describe Guru's as imperfect, but I know what you are getting at..............in the sense that they were human and God was within them ( as it is within each and everyone of us). The question is whether we can become attuned to that God or become God Realised (Gurmukh).

Ekh Musafir, why is it you that always ends up in confrontation on this forum? You really need to ask yourself that question. Egotism perhaps?

 

[Randip Singh]

I declare I am a developing atheist.
I am a receding egoist.
I am a rebel at heart.

For the past 5 years of my life I have constantly analyzed myself and have realized the roots of my problems to be rooted within myself. Through my carefull, careless poring over my self, I have often struck out against the adamanitum wall of religion. I have often found great hypocrisy in other religions and with great regret (not really), I have found a great philosophical and physical problem in Sikhism (Yes, I am a sikh child, teenager to specific for all you looking into my teenage angst).​

To the point now: in my sporadic attendences at the local Gurudwaras and several Gurmukhi Camps, I have heard from the Bhai Sahab many lectures (too dramatic?) on Homein (Ego). I realized that Sikhism places great emphasis on the evils of Ego. I also realized that I was greatly egotisitc.

Over the years I have worked hard within to fight off the evil and vile ego (no, I am not implying sarcasm). I have become far humbler now than I was that first day at the camp when it dawned upon me that ego was my problem, that I was fighting everday a losing war against with the other me.​

Anways, the problem, one I pose to you all is: Ego implies a aserting a distinction between you and me. Ego is identity. Ego is in its barest the only idea which make one, one. Lets forget all condescion and the usual.

The key facet ( if only from a physical standpoint) of Sikhism, the hair, the turban, etc. clearly identify us Sikhs from all people (at least the Majority). How is that since the Gurus preached us to reduce Ego, they later make us distinct. Not blaming them, why is that where ever I go in Sikh society, the import of our Sikh Identity (you know what I speak of) is so highly touted, romanticised, and brainwashed into us. Aren't we, by the idea of Ego, all the master egotists if we flaunt our turbans, kesh, etc. as a symbol of us. Or is this modern flaunting just our displacement against a world which has moved away from the naturalist theologies?




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Interesting points.

Can I ask you this, does Sikhism preach against the evils of ego or the evils of egoTISM?

Sikhism tells us to have high self esteem (which is linked to the ego), yet at the same time tells us to have humility.

The question i have you got the definition of what Sikhism is asking us to do correct, or is what you are doing based on an assumption/or something some Baba at a Sikh camp has told you?

On a personal note I have learned more about Sikhism away from Sikh Camps and Gurudwara's......the reason why?.....because many people today at Gurudwara's are shrouded by egotism, merely because they wear the 5k's.

For me I am a Sikh......but I do not think to be a Sikh you need the 5k's.........more important is dealing with the 5 vices.

 

[JtotheAtothe...]

No, the "baba" is a perfectly respectble man. He is supremely humble, an excellent human being.

Perhaps, my question arises from my own presumptions and assumptions. In that either I am wrong or I am right.

Apart from that, I think Sikhism deals with both ego and egotism. I know the gurbani contains certain lines in which it states that to lose yourself you can become a servant of God. Without ego, which dictates who I am (not how i treat others), I cannot completely surrender myself to god. Perhaps this also deals with the idea of faith. Egotism pertains more to connections between people. Egotism cannot exist without Ego, you must agree.

Let me provide an example to clarify my muddled definition of these terms. Say God tells me to the jump out into the ocean. Will I do it? My ego, that is me, says "nah" too dangerous "but, but... i surely will not survive in these shark infested waters" "I will become mince meat and not your servant any longer". God says jump.

This is the ego I speak of; the one which says that I am important. Now, self-esteem, I have found, is this very illusion of ego played out superbly by our psychological benefactors, who reinforce that I must, first and fore-most, believe in myself (or is it my Self?).

Forget egotism. Forget me beating down on you because I think I am more correct. What of me saying in the name of God, in the face of God that I am someone, that one, no, no the other one.

By the way, yes egotism is bad, no doubt.

On a different note, its good to see (read) that your thinking Parma; good for you. We don't have much of that now days. You know you are carefully walking the tightrope of existentialism ( and do i dare say, good for you).

Yes, i do believe that some of believe too much in our own religious texts. To such an extent that we can have very negative tone when speaking of muslims and their religion (don't deny it, its in your writings). Perhaps now you people will see why I gave ego the epithet of dispicable (yea right, your probably say getting ready to spew another laboriously crafted speech about how you are so qualified because you can spew gurbani with the vigor of young teenager who has discovered expletives).

O have you given it a thought that maybe this Parma charachter is just God who has taken the digital form and is testing you? How about that? This should spice things up a bit?

 

[simpy]

are we all different????

 

[Parma]

There is a such thing as you! Otherwise you dont exsist. Ego is all about self. If you forget yourself what are you? You have to respond to you being you just try to confront your ideas, ideas that dont have ego in them. Ego is over indulgence.

P.S. I dont cause confrontation people just have different views. I express mine. They express theres. I experess with my mind. Alot of others express with there heart. Think with the mind not the heart. Confrontation comes from the heart. I cannot fight or argue if my heart is not in it. I dont think about winning or losing an debate. I m not here to argue. I just say my peace and let nature take its course. The mind is clearly an obstical of giving an answer back clearly. If my views conflict with someone elses I'll give a reply back, not personal but of an idea that may help them uderstand my view. At times i have replyed personaly only when people keep attacking me. One must defend themselves. Views like I m not a sikh, stuff like that. I say something that you dont view as sikhi. Like they know better. They dont know they are true they are not god. I dont say i am truth. Just insert an Idea. If it benefits you great. If not fine. Your journey is different to mine. Hope you find peace of mind. Others just dont foward an idea but an attack. Think with the heart all you will do is act on impulse attack. Think with the mind and you will be able to view all options aswell as attack. There is only one god. I cant believe after all the discussions people still call god someone else. Im a humble man. I believe in god. I hope god shows you all PEACE OF MIND. AN OLD QUOTE; THE GREATEST TRICK THE DEVIL EVER PLAYED WAS TO PRETEND HE WAS GOD. ONLY GOD IS GOD. IM NO GOD BUT A HUMBLE MAN.

Or satha salarmath niran karr!

 

[simpy]

Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,


me neech believes that it all depends on how we use THESE PRECIOUS GIFTS GOD HAS PROVIDED US(the SOUL)- MIND, HEART and BODY
Balance has to be Maintained, Any type of imbalance is not good for well being............. NEITHER TOO LOOSE, NOR TOO TIGHT, JUST RIGHT.


forgive me please

 

[Randip Singh]

No, the "baba" is a perfectly respectble man. He is supremely humble, an excellent human being.

Perhaps, my question arises from my own presumptions and assumptions. In that either I am wrong or I am right.

Apart from that, I think Sikhism deals with both ego and egotism. I know the gurbani contains certain lines in which it states that to lose yourself you can become a servant of God. Without ego, which dictates who I am (not how i treat others), I cannot completely surrender myself to god. Perhaps this also deals with the idea of faith. Egotism pertains more to connections between people. Egotism cannot exist without Ego, you must agree.

Gluttony (Greed), cannot exist without Hunger. It is hunger gone to the extreme that fules greed. There is a very big diffrence between Ego/self worth and Egotism. It is for you to discover that. Humai is not ego. Hankaar is not Ego. A common mistranslation.

Find out for yourself as I have.

Let me provide an example to clarify my muddled definition of these terms. Say God tells me to the jump out into the ocean. Will I do it? My ego, that is me, says "nah" too dangerous "but, but... i surely will not survive in these shark infested waters" "I will become mince meat and not your servant any longer". God says jump.

This is the ego I speak of; the one which says that I am important. Now, self-esteem, I have found, is this very illusion of ego played out superbly by our psychological benefactors, who reinforce that I must, first and fore-most, believe in myself (or is it my Self?).

That is not Ego, but the instinct of self preservation.

Everytime a Sikh went into Battle the natural instinct of self preservation (which God created in man) comes into play. How Sikh's overcame that was tuning into a greater ideal. That is the preservation of Truthful Living outweighed any instinct for self preservation.

To not to want to die is not Ego.

Forget egotism. Forget me beating down on you because I think I am more correct. What of me saying in the name of God, in the face of God that I am someone, that one, no, no the other one.

By the way, yes egotism is bad, no doubt.

If I assumed you were beating down on me it would because my Egotism has assumed that you are trying to bruise my self worth/ego.

I have confidence ennough in my self worth to realise that I do not know everything but I can still learn without feeling inferior.

Egotism comes from a feeling of low self esteem. It is like a ballloon inflated with hot air. You will find nothing when it pops.