Ishna ji,
I'm so glad you noticed that too. I thought I was going nuts. I knew I'd read it then when I went back to find it again it was gone.
I think somebody is messing with us.
:motherlove:
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The Concept Of Jooth/Juth?
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Ishna ji,
I'm so glad you noticed that too. I thought I was going nuts. I knew I'd read it then when I went back to find it again it was gone.
I think somebody is messing with us.
:motherlove:
findingmyway ji
Good question! And I wonder too! The two ideas should never be irreconcilable, but people make it so. The concept of jooth - leftovers of a fallen Sikh, shoud not conflict with langar. No one is eating left-overs as far as I know. The food is prepared in front of our eyes. Not always by amritdharis.
So how does it happen? On the net and in private lives, and among members of sects who connect jooth to purity, as opposed to sanitation, some need to be certain that their langar does not come from anyone with paaps. They need to be certain that karmas will not pass from a bujjeri to an amritdhari person. I have even read in answer to your question... "Sikhs know they can survive for days without food. Eat less. Sleep less. If you go to that sangat, it will not harm you to skip the langar. You will not starve because you have the spiritual discipline to refuse." But langar is about the fellowship not the food.
Now Gyani ji took great pains to explain the history of A baptized Sikh is liable for chastisement if One who eats/drinks Left-overs of the unbaptised or the fallen Sikhs. He explained that the requirement is there to stress equality and reject any possibility that food becomes part of a sanantan inspired food ritual. But that is missed, and sadly the one line in SRM leads some to forget the khalsa rejection of status and ritual.
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My Lord !!!
Waheguru ji!!!
...This is getting more confusing the more I think about it !!
No jhoot from unbaptised sikh,
Does that mean jhoot from a baptised sikh is ok ?
and Jhoot from your catholic room mate is also fine because he is not unbaptised sikh or fallen for that matter ?
I remember though a simple rule that my Dad taught me-
He said always finish your food, never waste, never have too much that you can't finish to start with.
He said to waste food or leave unfinished is like a sin or paap. Because the little that I am wasting is enough tosave someones life somewhere !!!
Getting back to what I was told when I was 5 yrs old, I actually realise the answer to this jhoot confusion.-
- ANSWER is that we should NOT leave any Jhoot and so there won't even be a problem of who eats it !!!
Waheguru ji!!!
...This is getting more confusing the more I think about it !!
No jhoot from unbaptised sikh,
Does that mean jhoot from a baptised sikh is ok ?
and Jhoot from your catholic room mate is also fine because he is not unbaptised sikh or fallen for that matter ?
I remember though a simple rule that my Dad taught me-
He said always finish your food, never waste, never have too much that you can't finish to start with.
He said to waste food or leave unfinished is like a sin or paap. Because the little that I am wasting is enough tosave someones life somewhere !!!
Getting back to what I was told when I was 5 yrs old, I actually realise the answer to this jhoot confusion.-
- ANSWER is that we should NOT leave any Jhoot and so there won't even be a problem of who eats it !!!
read this....ALL THIS JHOOTH FOOD LEFT OVERS ETC IS FROM HINDUISM AND ITS BELEIFS..
IN THE MIDDLE PARA - FOOD FORM A "SINT" CARRIES HIS SPIRITUALITY...
http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-EPT/fran.htm
AND HERE LEFTOVER FOOD ETC IS CALLED PARSAAD !!
http://www.hinduism.co.za/prasada.htm
IN THE MIDDLE PARA - FOOD FORM A "SINT" CARRIES HIS SPIRITUALITY...
http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-EPT/fran.htm
AND HERE LEFTOVER FOOD ETC IS CALLED PARSAAD !!
http://www.hinduism.co.za/prasada.htm
MORE ON THESE RITUALS AND BELEIFS..WND WHERE THEY COEM FROM and..why SIKHS should NOT be following them...
http://www.kytemple.org/forms/templedetails.aspx?uc=3
http://www.kytemple.org/forms/templedetails.aspx?uc=3
- Jan 31, 2011
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As far as the SRM is concerned, I find it very much like reading outdated english translations of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I personally feel the SRM does more damage than good. Anything that bridges the chasm between Creator and man, that comes from man is always going to be suspect.
When I was younger, I was the only child that was not amritdhari. I recall one of my cousins spitting out a sandwich bite, as I was not 'baptised'. I therefore set my heart on being amritdhari, my dream was to go to Amritsar and be complete when I was due to go to India aged 15. My request was refused, and in hindsight, I am grateful, I would have turned into the very amritdhari Sikh that I now pity. The one that knows all the traditions, all the rituals, all the prayers, but has no idea of the core philosophy.
This type of Sikh is the first to admonish others for doing things 'the wrong way', and has little idea of the power and beauty of the religion. My parents were indeed farsighted.
As for eating food from other people, I am not sure where I stand, as I often share my plate with my dog.
When I was younger, I was the only child that was not amritdhari. I recall one of my cousins spitting out a sandwich bite, as I was not 'baptised'. I therefore set my heart on being amritdhari, my dream was to go to Amritsar and be complete when I was due to go to India aged 15. My request was refused, and in hindsight, I am grateful, I would have turned into the very amritdhari Sikh that I now pity. The one that knows all the traditions, all the rituals, all the prayers, but has no idea of the core philosophy.
This type of Sikh is the first to admonish others for doing things 'the wrong way', and has little idea of the power and beauty of the religion. My parents were indeed farsighted.
As for eating food from other people, I am not sure where I stand, as I often share my plate with my dog.
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This concept is very "Indian " ( HINDU.)
The Chinese eat from the same dishes..picking up foood from it and placing it on their small bowls..the Afghans Arabs Middle eastern all sit and dip their bread into the central plate..etc etc....ONLY the BRAHMINS who created the CASTE System have INVENTED this concept to keep their power base...
And if anyone claims its HYGIENIC..then how do you explain that INDIA is one of the most diseased nations..highest number of sick...and dying...its the dirtiest nation..so no go in that direction..those who "share" food are on the same level or higher than India...so thats a lie...its POWER BASED...and all thsoe bad karmas cleanliness etc are AFTER THOUGHTS to justify it.
The Chinese eat from the same dishes..picking up foood from it and placing it on their small bowls..the Afghans Arabs Middle eastern all sit and dip their bread into the central plate..etc etc....ONLY the BRAHMINS who created the CASTE System have INVENTED this concept to keep their power base...
And if anyone claims its HYGIENIC..then how do you explain that INDIA is one of the most diseased nations..highest number of sick...and dying...its the dirtiest nation..so no go in that direction..those who "share" food are on the same level or higher than India...so thats a lie...its POWER BASED...and all thsoe bad karmas cleanliness etc are AFTER THOUGHTS to justify it.
A risk here is to migrate into anti-amritdhari mode. Knowing that I started the criticism, responsibility rests with me on this. The reason for criticism lies with those who do not think about the meaning of the restriction in SRM on leftovers, and behave unconsciously. The restriction itself is not "jooth." "Jooth" works more like a slogan, is the conversion of an idea into a phrase that directs behavior and absolves one of thought.
Gyani ji has a great way of putting all of this. An "after-thought" to justify a "power base" or consciousness of status, a way of making competitive status clear to all.
Gyani ji has a great way of putting all of this. An "after-thought" to justify a "power base" or consciousness of status, a way of making competitive status clear to all.
Given that some special Brahmins leave their Jooth for 'low castes', maybe Guru said no one has to eat anyone's Jooth. And in many places, it is courtesy to give 'fresh' plates and cutlery to the guests. Yet it doesn't mean that you will not eat from other person's hand. Remember, Sikhi is not about how much filth is there in the outside world, but how much Naam is there in your heart.
TigerStyleZ
SPNer
Sheeeeesh! Waheguru , you confused me more - then I was before! I think I will follow my own Concept of 'Jooth'. My Concept is about:
-eating food from family,relatives etc.. is no problem, if their heart is good and their deeds. If I can trust them (and atleast they dont start poisioning my food).
- try to not leave any left overs- like Lucky ji said - my da as well told me that. ( I can still do exercise to compensate the more eaten food).
-totally reject left overs , if I am not going to starve.
-dont let my ego come over me , by proving myself that I can eat only a food prepared in a certainly way.
- Try to not follow this Brahmaanvaad in any way
Mhh, I hope this is the right way... and if anybody has something to say - feel free - to improve and extend my way .
- I am not better than any else being on this world, so if I make any mistake - it is up to the merciful creator to judge me.
-eating food from family,relatives etc.. is no problem, if their heart is good and their deeds. If I can trust them (and atleast they dont start poisioning my food).
- try to not leave any left overs- like Lucky ji said - my da as well told me that. ( I can still do exercise to compensate the more eaten food).
-totally reject left overs , if I am not going to starve.
-dont let my ego come over me , by proving myself that I can eat only a food prepared in a certainly way.
- Try to not follow this Brahmaanvaad in any way
Mhh, I hope this is the right way... and if anybody has something to say - feel free - to improve and extend my way .
- I am not better than any else being on this world, so if I make any mistake - it is up to the merciful creator to judge me.
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- Jan 31, 2011
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I think it is Creation that will judge you, rather than creator
1. Jooth is to go and take bath after the shadow of the low caste is casted upon you.
2. Jooth is not to let low caste people like Bhagat Ravi Das, Bhagat Namdev and many others not to enter the temples.
3. Jooth is only to have one door to the worshipping place rather than four as at Darbar Sahib.
4. Jooth is wearing the Janieu at the age of 5 only by the Brahmins' boys, thus guaranteeing themselves as so called the future scholars of Vedas.
5. Jooth is to accept langar if prepared only by the Amritdharis.
6. Jooth is to have that langar prepared in the sarbh loh or steel utensils only by the Amritdharis.
7. Jooth is not to eat at a non- Amritdhari's home.
8. Jooth is to have Rehansabahis like the Hindu Jagrans. The sign of Me-ism.
9. Jooth is to divide Sikhi into several dogmatic cults.
10. Jooth is to erase pragmatism from Sikhi.
11. Jooth is to become the parrots of Gurbani rather than its practitioners.
12. Jooth is to worship/follow a book called Dasam Granth as one more Guru rather than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.
13. Jooth is not to have low caste people enter the langar halls or the kitchens at our homes.
14. Jooth is to degrade another human being after proclaiming to follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, which boldly states:
” Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koi”.
How dare we say some one is Jooth as we are all from The One?
2. Jooth is not to let low caste people like Bhagat Ravi Das, Bhagat Namdev and many others not to enter the temples.
3. Jooth is only to have one door to the worshipping place rather than four as at Darbar Sahib.
4. Jooth is wearing the Janieu at the age of 5 only by the Brahmins' boys, thus guaranteeing themselves as so called the future scholars of Vedas.
5. Jooth is to accept langar if prepared only by the Amritdharis.
6. Jooth is to have that langar prepared in the sarbh loh or steel utensils only by the Amritdharis.
7. Jooth is not to eat at a non- Amritdhari's home.
8. Jooth is to have Rehansabahis like the Hindu Jagrans. The sign of Me-ism.
9. Jooth is to divide Sikhi into several dogmatic cults.
10. Jooth is to erase pragmatism from Sikhi.
11. Jooth is to become the parrots of Gurbani rather than its practitioners.
12. Jooth is to worship/follow a book called Dasam Granth as one more Guru rather than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.
13. Jooth is not to have low caste people enter the langar halls or the kitchens at our homes.
14. Jooth is to degrade another human being after proclaiming to follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, which boldly states:
” Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koi”.
How dare we say some one is Jooth as we are all from The One?
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Tejwant Ji..very very well said as usual...thanks ji. There should be no doubts left afetr that..you have covered ALL the bases....
The reason I raised my question is that a lot of Sikhs consider jhooth not just leftovers but anything shared. One Sikh camp there was a woman telling us how she had trained her office coworkers to allow her to take food first as once they had touched it she could not share due to jhooth. A lot of people won't eat langar at all as it is not pure enough for them. Skipping langar is not an option as the Guru's would not meet with people unless langar had been partaken of first. Unless you sit down with everyone and share, how can there be humility? Langar is traditionally served first then Jaikara is said to indicate when you can begin eating. This is to ensure that there is enough food to go round, the theory being that if it falls short, the people at the beginning can share their food with those at the end before they have started eating. How does this fit into the concept of jhooth as popularly known today? I am not looking for an answer but these points are important to consider for anyone confused about jhooth!!
I love this so want to reiterate
Reaching some closure with Gyani's note and Tejwant Singh's summing up so that the same topics are not reworked again and again. Another thread on langar would be a terrific idea! Let's get one going on the issues that stand in the way of understanding langar. Some of these over-lap as pointed out by findingmyway ji. Thanks.
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