Support For The Concept Of Reincarnation In Sikhism?

[Archived_Member_19]

Re: Dominance of Rituals in Sikh Religion

<Gurbani does say that the HUMAN is bestowed the SIKDAREE over ALL others on this Earth.>>
gyani ji

i never came across this

can you please share the reference?

 

[Archived_Member_19]

Re: Dominance of Rituals in Sikh Religion

and my post previous to this was in reference to Kaur -1 ji's post

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Dominance of Rituals in Sikh Religion

<Gurbani does say that the HUMAN is bestowed the SIKDAREE over ALL others on this Earth.>>
gyani ji

i never came across this

can you please share the reference?

Huck Finn Ji,
Page 368 SGGS
“ਅਵਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ॥ ਇਸੁ ਧਰਤੀ ਮਹਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੀ॥” ਮ: 5 ਪੰਨਾ 374 Panharee measn servants..those who carry water for you..
sikdaree is lorship/sardaree.
The HUMAN is SIKDAAR..meaning up and above all other life forms.Human Life is special..foremost...peak of creation. This earth is for the human..to "rule over".Others serve YOU.
Imho such a concept is also present in the Bible...

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Dominance of Rituals in Sikh Religion

At other places Guru ji declares..EVEN the Devtas, angels, demi-gods...SEEK and NEED the Human Body in order to escape this cycle of birth and death and merge with the Creator. This means the devtas etc are also lower in status to a GURMUKH.
ES dehi ko simreh DEV..."dehi" is human body !!

 

[Archived_Member_19]

Re: Dominance of Rituals in Sikh Religion

Gyani ji

One tuk can often be miscontrued when read out of reference and background.

Here is the complete shabd:

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਪੰਚਪਦੇ ॥
आसा महला ५ पंचपदे ॥
Āsā mėhlā 5 pancẖpaḏe.
Aasaa, Fifth Mehl, Panch-Padas:


ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਨੀਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ॥
प्रथमे तेरी नीकी जाति ॥
Parathme ṯerī nīkī jāṯ.
First, your social status is high.

ਦੁਤੀਆ ਤੇਰੀ ਮਨੀਐ ਪਾਂਤਿ ॥
दुतीआ तेरी मनीऐ पांति ॥
Ḏuṯī▫ā ṯerī manī▫ai pāʼnṯ.
Second, you are honored in society.

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਆ ਤੇਰਾ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਥਾਨੁ ॥
त्रितीआ तेरा सुंदर थानु ॥
Ŧariṯī▫ā ṯerā sunḏar thān.
Third, your home is beautiful.

ਬਿਗੜ ਰੂਪੁ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥੧॥
बिगड़ रूपु मन महि अभिमानु ॥१॥
Bigaṛ rūp man mėh abẖimān. ||1||
But you are so ugly, with self-conceit in your mind. ||1||

ਸੋਹਨੀ ਸਰੂਪਿ ਸੁਜਾਣਿ ਬਿਚਖਨਿ ॥
सोहनी सरूपि सुजाणि बिचखनि ॥
Sohnī sarūp sujāṇ bicẖkẖan.
O beautiful, attractive, wise and clever woman:

ਅਤਿ ਗਰਬੈ ਮੋਹਿ ਫਾਕੀ ਤੂੰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
अति गरबै मोहि फाकी तूं ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Aṯ garbai mohi fākī ṯūʼn. ||1|| rahā▫o.
you have been trapped by your pride and attachment. ||1||Pause||

ਅਤਿ ਸੂਚੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਾਕਸਾਲ ॥
अति सूची तेरी पाकसाल ॥
Aṯ sūcẖī ṯerī pāksāl.
Your kitchen is so clean.

ਕਰਿ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਪੂਜਾ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਲਾਲ ॥
करि इसनानु पूजा तिलकु लाल ॥
Kar isnān pūjā ṯilak lāl.
You take your bath, and worship, and apply the crimson mark upon your forehead;

ਗਲੀ ਗਰਬਹਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਗੋਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨ ॥
गली गरबहि मुखि गोवहि गिआन ॥
Galī garbėh mukẖ govėh gi▫ān.
with your mouth you speak wisdom, but you are destroyed by pride.

ਸਭ ਬਿਧਿ ਖੋਈ ਲੋਭਿ ਸੁਆਨ ॥੨॥
सभ बिधि खोई लोभि सुआन ॥२॥
Sabẖ biḏẖ kẖo▫ī lobẖ su▫ān. ||2||
The dog of greed has ruined you in every way. ||2||

ਕਾਪਰ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਭੋਗ ॥
कापर पहिरहि भोगहि भोग ॥
Kāpar pahirahi bẖogėh bẖog.
You wear your robes and enjoy pleasures;

ਆਚਾਰ ਕਰਹਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਮਹਿ ਲੋਗ ॥
आचार करहि सोभा महि लोग ॥
Ācẖār karahi sobẖā mėh log.
you practice good conduct to impress people;

ਚੋਆ ਚੰਦਨ ਸੁਗੰਧ ਬਿਸਥਾਰ ॥
चोआ चंदन सुगंध बिसथार ॥
Cẖo▫ā cẖanḏan suganḏẖ bisthār.
you apply scented oils of sandalwood and musk,

ਸੰਗੀ ਖੋਟਾ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਚੰਡਾਲ ॥੩॥
संगी खोटा क्रोधु चंडाल ॥३॥
Sangī kẖotā kroḏẖ cẖandāl. ||3||
but your constant companion is the demon of anger. ||3||

ਅਵਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ ॥
अवर जोनि तेरी पनिहारी ॥
Avar jon ṯerī panihārī.
Other people may be your water-carriers;

ਇਸੁ ਧਰਤੀ ਮਹਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੀ ॥
इसु धरती महि तेरी सिकदारी ॥
Is ḏẖarṯī mėh ṯerī sikḏārī.
in this world, you may be a ruler.

ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰੂਪਾ ਤੁਝ ਪਹਿ ਦਾਮ ॥
सुइना रूपा तुझ पहि दाम ॥
Su▫inā rūpā ṯujẖ pėh ḏām.
Gold, silver and wealth may be yours,

ਸੀਲੁ ਬਿਗਾਰਿਓ ਤੇਰਾ ਕਾਮ ॥੪॥
सीलु बिगारिओ तेरा काम ॥४॥
Sīl bigāri▫o ṯerā kām. ||4||
but the goodness of your conduct has been destroyed by sexual promiscuity. ||4||

ਜਾ ਕਉ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਮਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ॥
जा कउ द्रिसटि मइआ हरि राइ ॥
Jā ka▫o ḏarisat ma▫i▫ā har rā▫e.
That soul, upon whom the Lord has bestowed His Glance of Grace,

ਸਾ ਬੰਦੀ ਤੇ ਲਈ ਛਡਾਇ ॥
सा बंदी ते लई छडाइ ॥
Sā banḏī ṯe la▫ī cẖẖadā▫e.
is delivered from bondage.

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
साधसंगि मिलि हरि रसु पाइआ ॥
Sāḏẖsang mil har ras pā▫i▫ā.
Joining the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, the Lord's sublime essence is obtained.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਫਲ ਓਹ ਕਾਇਆ ॥੫॥
कहु नानक सफल ओह काइआ ॥५॥
Kaho Nānak safal oh kā▫i▫ā. ||5||
Says Nanak, how fruitful is that body. ||5||

ਸਭਿ ਰੂਪ ਸਭਿ ਸੁਖ ਬਨੇ ਸੁਹਾਗਨਿ ॥
सभि रूप सभि सुख बने सुहागनि ॥
Sabẖ rūp sabẖ sukẖ bane suhāgan.
All graces and all comforts shall come to you, as the happy soul-bride;

ਅਤਿ ਸੁੰਦਰਿ ਬਿਚਖਨਿ ਤੂੰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੧੨॥
अति सुंदरि बिचखनि तूं ॥१॥ रहाउ दूजा ॥१२॥
Aṯ sunḏar bicẖkẖan ṯūʼn. ||1|| rahā▫o ḏūjā. ||12||
you shall be supremely beautiful and wise. ||1||Second. Pause||12||

 

[kaur-1]

Re: Dominance of Rituals in Sikh Religion

At other places Guru ji declares..EVEN the Devtas, angels, demi-gods...SEEK and NEED the Human Body in order to escape this cycle of birth and death and merge with the Creator. This means the devtas etc are also lower in status to a GURMUKH.
ES dehi ko simreh DEV..."dehi" is human body !!

You write "escape this cycle of birth and death " and yet reject reincarnation.

Awan jawan ie coming and going is the Sikhee form of reincarnation or transmigration and is not limited to just the human form. Though Awan jawan is not fatalistic in Sikhee, it is still a form of reincarnation/transmigration.

Giani ji, what is your reply to these questions If there is only one human life then where .. Kaurkhalsaraj's Blog

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Dominance of Rituals in Sikh Religion

kaur Ji,

I "REJECT" Reincarnation..84 lakh joons ( at least now poeple are beginning to see the light that this NUMBER is definitlely WRONG as Creator cannot be LIMITED)..simply becasue GURBANI is for the HUMAN...a TOOL BOX full of TOOLS to IMPROVE his LIFE as a HUMAN.

2. arguing baout the reincarnations and joons...how many in water..and how many on land sea air space..etc etc is like endless arguing about the colour of the "tool box"..why is it flat..it could be roun..its edges could be sharper..etc etc...for me the TIME is SHORT..the Clock begins ticking BACKWARDS (puthee gharee) the second we emerge from the womb..people..the world REJOICES..Kabir Ji says I CRIED !!( and every Baby does CRY..and LOUDLY.but we all IGNORE that CRY in our IGNORANCE..but Kbair ji captured the essence of the CRY.and when we END our TIME...the World now CRIES...again the WORLD IGNORES the JOYFUL Ocassion of Merger with the CREATOR..and instead wails..But.Kabir says I LAUGHED ( because Kabir ji again captured the JOY of the moment which escapes everyone else )

2. GURUS tell us again and Again..I DONT KNOW...I DONT KNOW...ONLY HE KNOWS..ONLY the CREATOR KNOWS IT ALL... Why cant we understand/or dont want to face it.. when Gurbani declares so forcefully..Baba bolteh they kahan gayeh ?? Why we endlessly "dwell upon"..oh what joon did he go into..or pretend to tell everyone..Satguru de charankamal kol giya...as if we KNOW for a FACT !! we are simply HIDING our own INSECURITIES..we are simply ignoring REALITY that we dont have a clue as to what happened and where the dead went ?? we dwell on..reincarnation...joons...we should have the confidence of Kabir Ji to LAUGH..and go laughing...that where-ever we are GOING..its a JOY. THAT is the MAKSAD..the REASON for GURBANI..to make us strong enough to LAUGH at DEATH.

That is my conclusion. I can go on quoting shabds and shabads..but it is not my piece of cake..the long essays on Sikh Marg ???? ???? are plenty to read about and see the shabads quoted.:welcome:

 

[manbir]

Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji

Gurfateh

Thanks for explaining beautifully. The problem with we people is that we read Gurbani as a story or essay. The fact is that whole of SGGS is a great poetry set to music. We fail to understand the poetic expressions of our Guru. We do need a poetic sense while reading or singing Gurbani. We Sikhs badly need to understand the difference between an essay and a poetry. Our derawallas have a crude sense and they are the ones responsible for all sorts of mythological stories and misconseptions prevalent in us and in our religious places.

Thanks again

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Gyaniji,

I think you have a phobia to put you always in the limelight only. That’s why you raise your finger always on such issues which any human being can never answer. Your assumption of 84 Lakh joons are of the same theory, you raised your finger earlier on Dasam Granth. See you say that Guruji, just to illustarated the theory of Gurmat in his followers, concocted the idea of 84 lakh joons.
You are raising your finger on the grounds that the people who live in Haridwar, the sins they commit daily are washed by a bathe in holy river Ganga, in the same way by merely taking 84 baths and jaaps at the Baoli guarantees you to save you from re-incarnation.
There is the faith, blind faith to follow the preaching’s of Guru who is the savior. The duties bestowed to us by almighty is not remembered by us and this is the master, the Guru who reminds us, as in Asa Mahalla-5, “BHAI PRAPAT MAANUKH DEHURIA GOBIND MILAN KI EH TERI BARIA !!” So If the almighty has sent on this beautiful planet earth, he has sent us with the condition to jaap thy naam, he arranged and provided to fulfill all our daily needs, he committed to us before he sent us but we are the people who jeopardize with him and the assurances we made before him.
So Gyaniji, It is not the matter whether there are 84 Lakhs joons or not but we are sure that we shall have to face the almighty after our death. That's why Guru ji says to keep our face clean with the jaap of thy naam baani so the almighty may recognize at once his devout Sikh.
Any doubt gyani ji?
Regards and Guru fateh ji !!

 

[kds1980]

Gyani ji

sikhmarg is controlled by Neo Atheist type sikh missionaries.These people now have suddenly discovered That there is no transmigration of soul.My question is Do these people beleive in

1) God

2) soul

If yes then where does that soul goes if does it not merge with waheguru.Or we are going to say that all people will have the same fate after the death.if Yes then why to waste time in following sikhi.even Dr. sahib singh in his teeka has several time mentioned about reincarnation so One could hardly justify that there is no concept of transmigration of soul in sikhism.

To be frank I don't have problem with these neo Atheist sikh missionaries .If someone follows them then its ok.But these people should accept that large part of sikh community does not accept their views.

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Giani Ji thanks for your post on reincarnation and totally agree with you but would like to share a review on the subject;

REINCARNATION-A REVIEW​

ABSTRACT​

The Doctrine of reincarnation teaches that the eternal Conscience of man lives many successive lives on earth occupying every time a human form and continually progressing toward perfection. It must be carefully distinguished from a certain teaching which often goes by the name of Metem-psychosis or Transmigration which holds that humans can incarnate in to animal or vegetable depending on the Karma. The truth of the matter is that there is no transparency in this Doctrine, which can force an individual to progress spiritually under its fear. Ravidas ponders metaphorically in Raag Dhanasari in his loneliness and love towards God;

The rest of this article can be found at this link http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/24446-reincarnation-a-review.html

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Here is a reply from Sardar Gurmit Singh Ji Of Australia...
Waheguru jee ka Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh

It is an open secret that during the Rule of Maharaja Ranjit Singh
and the British, the clever brahminical priests in the guise of Sikhie
controlled Darbaar Sahib and other historical Gurduaras and thus,
started introducing brahminical doctrine and rituals. This story of
(84) steps is also their creation. But it is a pity that despite the
Singh Sabha Lehr and Gurduara Sudhaar Lehr, Sikhs continue to
make use of the Historical Gurduaras just as Hindus' holy places
of pilgrimage. Only difference is that Udasis, Nirmalas, Mahants,
etc have been found to be replaced by the Keshadhari Priests.

In so far as the concept of Reincarnation is concerned, it is nothing
but imitating other religions such as Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, etc.
The life span of humans and other creatures is from Birth to Death
and our body & heart/breath is a complete package, one without
other component has no existence. Once a person breathes last,
that is the end of life, though like landing and departure of different
Aeroplanes at the Airport, one dies, other takes birth and thus
Universe goes on under God's Divine Command. Life is not in our
hands because "Birth and Death" is the sole prerogative of the
Almighty God.

Just think, has ever any dead body come to life from graves,
which are maintained by Christians, Mussalmaans, some Hindsus?
Has ever an ant given birth to an elephant, or snake to donkey?
In Pauri 35 of Japp Jee Sahib, we read daily that there are
countless species and countless sources of production and as
such, God does not need to recycle any soul, which has neither
Entity of its own nor it could be identified or linked with any
other body or form of life !

For instance, in India we often see during "Shraadh Days" when
several Sikh families invite Five Singhs for delicious dishes in the
memory of their departed parents and grand parents. But food
never reaches them through brahmins or Five Singhs?

Gurmit Singh (Sydney-Australia)

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear Giani Ji,

I concur with Gurmit Ji's views and same is true about the soul IMHO. As the population of the world is growing-question arises from where these souls are coming? Of course it is simple biological reproductive system which is the cause of it.

How come the life span of individuals have increased mostly in the developed countries-Does it mean that people have become more religious or noble and God has granted an extension to there lives-Of course it is scientific discoveries and medicine the cause of it.

Here are my two cents on the subject of soul which is pertinent for this discussion;

SOUL/ਜੀਅ/CONSCIENCE​

ABSTRACT​

Soul is a metaphysical, indefinable, infinite, inaccessible, inapprehensible and a vital principle. It is considered by most of the humanity as a part of a Higher Power or energy, not subject to destruction, having a consciousness. Still, it remains unappreciated by the normal five senses of, vision, hearing, smell, touch, and taste. Medically it is the aspect of the individual that perceives the experiences of life and actions-conscience through integrated actions of multiple systems of the body. It integrates and changes the out look of life with spiritual progress. Through it one has the chance to become a Guru willed or remain suppressed by free will-self willed.
​

-
The rest of the article can be found at this link http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/24289-soul-conscience.html

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Gyani ji

sikhmarg is controlled by Neo Atheist type sikh missionaries.These people now have suddenly discovered That there is no transmigration of soul.My question is Do these people beleive in

1) God

2) soul

If yes then where does that soul goes if does it not merge with waheguru.Or we are going to say that all people will have the same fate after the death.if Yes then why to waste time in following sikhi.even Dr. sahib singh in his teeka has several time mentioned about reincarnation so One could hardly justify that there is no concept of transmigration of soul in sikhism.

To be frank I don't have problem with these neo Atheist sikh missionaries .If someone follows them then its ok.But these people should accept that large part of sikh community does not accept their views.

Kanwardeep ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am a bit confused about what you are trying to convey. Who are theseSo, can you please describe the 2 words that you have mentioned above from the Sikhi view point?

1) God

2) soul

I hope you would elaborate whatever you say in your own words if you happen to quote Gurbani in your response.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[lotus lion]

Hi Gyani Jarnail Singh,

I have read through this thread, but i am afraid that i am still unsure what your personal stance is on Reincarnation?

Would you mind clarifying this, as sometimes i feel that you are rejecting reincarnation completely, but at other times accepting it.

For me, the Guru Granth Sahib teaches about reincarnation and is a central pillar of the Sikh Dharma. I believe in reincarnation.

Once i have figured out what your stance is, perhaps i can enter the discussion.

Thanks,

Lotus

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Gyaniji,

I think you have a phobia to put you always in the limelight only. That’s why you raise your finger always on such issues which any human being can never answer. Your assumption of 84 Lakh joons are of the same theory, you raised your finger earlier on Dasam Granth. See you say that Guruji, just to illustarated the theory of Gurmat in his followers, concocted the idea of 84 lakh joons.
You are raising your finger on the grounds that the people who live in Haridwar, the sins they commit daily are washed by a bathe in holy river Ganga, in the same way by merely taking 84 baths and jaaps at the Baoli guarantees you to save you from re-incarnation.
There is the faith, blind faith to follow the preaching’s of Guru who is the savior. The duties bestowed to us by almighty is not remembered by us and this is the master, the Guru who reminds us, as in Asa Mahalla-5, “BHAI PRAPAT MAANUKH DEHURIA GOBIND MILAN KI EH TERI BARIA !!” So If the almighty has sent on this beautiful planet earth, he has sent us with the condition to jaap thy naam, he arranged and provided to fulfill all our daily needs, he committed to us before he sent us but we are the people who jeopardize with him and the assurances we made before him.
So Gyaniji, It is not the matter whether there are 84 Lakhs joons or not but we are sure that we shall have to face the almighty after our death. That's why Guru ji says to keep our face clean with the jaap of thy naam baani so the almighty may recognize at once his devout Sikh.
Any doubt gyani ji?
Regards and Guru fateh ji !!

Ajmer Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You have quoted the following one liner from Rehraas to justify whatever your point is:

Asa Mahalla-5, “BHAI PRAPAT MAANUKH DEHURIA GOBIND MILAN KI EH TERI BARIA !!”

Would you be kind enough to explain the whole Shabad in your own words - just in case you copy and paste the literal translation-, so I can grasp what you are trying to say?

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[kaur-1]

Re: Dominance of Rituals in Sikh Religion

kaur Ji,

I "REJECT" Reincarnation..84 lakh joons ( at least now poeple are beginning to see the light that this NUMBER is definitlely WRONG as Creator cannot be LIMITED)..simply becasue GURBANI is for the HUMAN...a TOOL BOX full of TOOLS to IMPROVE his LIFE as a HUMAN.

2. arguing baout the reincarnations and joons...how many in water..and how many on land sea air space..etc etc is like endless arguing about the colour of the "tool box"..why is it flat..it could be roun..its edges could be sharper..etc etc...for me the TIME is SHORT..the Clock begins ticking BACKWARDS (puthee gharee) the second we emerge from the womb..people..the world REJOICES..Kabir Ji says I CRIED !!( and every Baby does CRY..and LOUDLY.but we all IGNORE that CRY in our IGNORANCE..but Kbair ji captured the essence of the CRY.and when we END our TIME...the World now CRIES...again the WORLD IGNORES the JOYFUL Ocassion of Merger with the CREATOR..and instead wails..But.Kabir says I LAUGHED ( because Kabir ji again captured the JOY of the moment which escapes everyone else )

2. GURUS tell us again and Again..I DONT KNOW...I DONT KNOW...ONLY HE KNOWS..ONLY the CREATOR KNOWS IT ALL... Why cant we understand/or dont want to face it.. when Gurbani declares so forcefully..Baba bolteh they kahan gayeh ?? Why we endlessly "dwell upon"..oh what joon did he go into..or pretend to tell everyone..Satguru de charankamal kol giya...as if we KNOW for a FACT !! we are simply HIDING our own INSECURITIES..we are simply ignoring REALITY that we dont have a clue as to what happened and where the dead went ?? we dwell on..reincarnation...joons...we should have the confidence of Kabir Ji to LAUGH..and go laughing...that where-ever we are GOING..its a JOY. THAT is the MAKSAD..the REASON for GURBANI..to make us strong enough to LAUGH at DEATH.

That is my conclusion. I can go on quoting shabds and shabads..but it is not my piece of cake..the long essays on Sikh Marg ???? ???? are plenty to read about and see the shabads quoted.:welcome:

Giani Ji , you have to make it clear that rejecting 84 lakh joons is NOT rejecting reincarnation otherwise you are changing Gurmat.

You cannot in one post say that you reject reincarnation totally and next say that we must not delve on it.

Giani ji, thanks for replying to If there is only one human life then where .. Kaurkhalsaraj's Blog and as

If there was only one life then would this be fair http://kaurkhalsaraj.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/if-there-was-only-1-life-then-is-this-fair/

This has given me an idea for the next topic - "Dar Adab".

 

[Satyaban]

My goodness posts are so nice they said it twice.:whisling:
I did not know that there were only 84 go'rounds in Sikhi as I believe there are as many as it takes.

I would think it is easy to avoid rebirth as a dog or elephant and that is to not behave as one. However if it happens it is a part of that person's spiritual evolution. The law of karma is as natural as gravity and not a day to day decision of the creator.

So rebirth is driven by karma.

Upon further reflection I realize I have not really delved into the atman. I believe the atman is the essence of The Creator. So the unavoidable question is what would happen to the atman if there was no rebirth or even limited to 84. Can the essence of The Absolute be condemned, of course not, so what can the answer be?

Peace
Satyaban

 

[japjisahib04]

Re: Dominance of Rituals in Sikh Religion

Guru Piayario Jios,
Gurfateh. The gist of my argument is that at a large number of places..Gurbani is very clear that this HUMAN BIRTH is ONLY ONCE...it is durlaabh (invaluable), it is the One and ONLY chance we get to Merge with the Creator...Bhgats say this, the Gurus say this...again and again. Now this may not be solid proof that "joons" exist/dont exist...BUT GURU NANAK JI SAHIB came in Human Form, for the HUMAN FORM..the Gurbani was spoken in human Langauge to humans..and its written down in Human Langauge For HUMANS..and HUMAN FORM..JANAM only Happens ONCE..Gobind milan kee eh teri Bareah..this is the TURN to meet HIM..means PAY ATTENTION..LIFE IS SHORT...the END..the DESTINATION is in SIGHT..prepare to END the JOURNEY.

Giani ji

If the most significance mission of our life is just to pay attention and live house holder life, then even animal live house holder life and 99% of human live house holder life. So why the Guru has cautioned us that it is our bareeaa and human form is the only form that has the ability for us to realized God. Journey will end even otherwise whether we pay attention or not but what is the benefit of realizing God.

Though I like your answer. Time is limited as it is ... I want to laugh like Kabir is ... when it is time to go . no regret. But somehow I feel you are intentionaly escaping from the direct answer about reincarnation.

If you permit me we can start from Japjisahib verse karmi avaih kapda nadri mokh duar. Sikhism is a faith of hope and cheers/ Though it affirms karma, it recognizes the possibility of modification of one karma with the grace of the God. It does not lead to despair and defeatism. This is to fulfill the unanswered actions and unfulfilled desires left over from our last lives that have to be balanced. bwsnw bDw Awvy jwvY – entangle with unfulfilled vicious desires mortal comes and goes. Unfinished agenda. So long as the mind has unfulfilled desires or incomplete work of the past life, to which he is insanely attached, he shall remain chained to the cycle of life and death. But it does mean one lives without any desires but what is important is worldly actions are rightful action with controlled desires. Thus mind must remain detached from 'selfish desire'. Because it is not the 'action' in them that troubles or pleases a person, it is the 'result' of an action that troubles or pleases a person. So the escape from reincartional is His grace which is cardinal doctrine of Sabd Guru.

Upon your answer wewill continue.

Best regards
Mohinder Singh Sahni
Kuwait

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Satyaban Ji writes; So rebirth is driven by karma.

Dear Satyaban Ji,

Here are my two cents on the subject of Karma for your perusal;

KARMA/ਕਾਰਜ​

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/24564-karma.html


Cordially,

Virinder