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Support For The Concept Of Reincarnation In Sikhism?

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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That is quite a lot of definitive statement there, not all Sikhs believe in reincarnation or transmigration, some believe in total death, but to be honest, does it make any difference? We get one shot at finding the correct way to behave, think, speak, act, after that its game over regardless.

BUT...This Brahmgyani, Gurmat Maartand, etc etc etc..claims OTHERWISE..
Read Page 88 of Gurmatt Path darshan..and see
ਸ੍ਰੀਮਾਨ, ਪੰਥ ਰਤਨ, ਵਿਦਿਯਾ ਮਾਰਤੰਡ, ਸੰਤ, ਗਿਆਨੀ, ਖਾਲਸਾ' ਬੇਸ਼ੁਮਾਰ ਵਿਸ਼ਲੇਸ਼ਣਾਂ ਦੇ ਆਪੂ ਬਣੇ ਬੈਠੇ ਮਾਲਕ
'ਗੁਰਬਚਨ ਸਿੰਘ' ਜੀ ਦੇ ਅਨਮੋਲ ਬਚਨ -

ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਇਕ ਵਾਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕ ਲਿਆ। ਬਾਵੇਂ
ਜਿੰਨੀਆਂ ਮਰਜੀ ਗਲਤੀਆਂ ਕਰੀ ਜਾਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਭੀ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ
ਦਸ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਵਰ੍ਹੇ (ਬਰਸ) ਤੱਕ ਨਰਕਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਣ
ਦਿਆਂਗੇ (ਪੰਨਾ-88)




An Amrtidharee can commit COUNTLESS MISTAKES..he will be REBORN as a SIKH for 10,000 YEARS !!! Just chhak Amrti from Dumdummy taksaal !!
 

Ishna

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Most people know me well enough by now to attest to the fact that I'm probably a perfect example of what Gurbani most likely means by 'coming and going'!!!!

And it's not fun, or pretty. *hmph* :mundaviolin:

You get no rest when you're constantly coming and going on the tumultuous world ocean (in this life) wondering how you're ever going to get to the other side, running from pillar to post, being dragged this way and that by maya, being disconnected from Naam, having a moment of clarity and a year of darkness, having one belief as a child, another as a youth, another in middle age... we already have many lives within this one life... it's our only chance, this one human life.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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BUT...This Brahmgyani, Gurmat Maartand, etc etc etc..claims OTHERWISE..
Read Page 88 of Gurmatt Path darshan..and see
ਸ੍ਰੀਮਾਨ, ਪੰਥ ਰਤਨ, ਵਿਦਿਯਾ ਮਾਰਤੰਡ, ਸੰਤ, ਗਿਆਨੀ, ਖਾਲਸਾ' ਬੇਸ਼ੁਮਾਰ ਵਿਸ਼ਲੇਸ਼ਣਾਂ ਦੇ ਆਪੂ ਬਣੇ ਬੈਠੇ ਮਾਲਕ
'ਗੁਰਬਚਨ ਸਿੰਘ' ਜੀ ਦੇ ਅਨਮੋਲ ਬਚਨ -

ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਇਕ ਵਾਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕ ਲਿਆ। ਬਾਵੇਂ
ਜਿੰਨੀਆਂ ਮਰਜੀ ਗਲਤੀਆਂ ਕਰੀ ਜਾਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਭੀ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ
ਦਸ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਵਰ੍ਹੇ (ਬਰਸ) ਤੱਕ ਨਰਕਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਣ
ਦਿਆਂਗੇ (ਪੰਨਾ-88)




An Amrtidharee can commit COUNTLESS MISTAKES..he will be REBORN as a SIKH for 10,000 YEARS !!! Just chhak Amrti from Dumdummy taksaal !!
BTW..only a real "Dum Dum" would believe in a Fairy Tale like that....BECAUSE SGGS declares quite definitively..Jo kicchh paiyah so EKA Vaar...and Gobind milan ke EH TERI Barreah...etc etc...hundreds of tuks by various Gurus bhagats etc...underline the Immeasurable Value fo HUMAN BIRTH....
Be AWARE such story tellers and spinners of the TRUTH...
 
Oct 19, 2012
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That is quite a lot of definitive statement there, not all Sikhs believe in reincarnation or transmigration, some believe in total death, but to be honest, does it make any difference? We get one shot at finding the correct way to behave, think, speak, act, after that its game over regardless.

thanks for the feedback..the whole of sikhism is a destiny to break away from cycles of birth and death, not going to heaven or hell where ego still exist in maya.. that salvation or mukti cannot be earned easily just by doing goodness only means actions related to 3 gunas... naams are not earned we are still subjected to multiple deaths life after life.. death will not leave us.. true heaven in sikhism is such khand located beyond maya-universal mind...all of this should be earned thru meditation in a human birth..in meditation we must be able to rise higher beyond the 3 gunas,, or beyond where there is no ego,, or enter into the 4th stage consciousness...since in sikhism we believe in laws of causes and affects, karmas.. whatever that is earned in meditation will be taken after death.. that is the ticket to cross maya, maya is a snake a very cunning shadow counterpart of mind and body..it will always show you temporal not permanent things like artificial heavens and hells..it creates deceptions and confusion.. to rise higher we need the lord s GRACE here.. thru the true love to god grace is earned.. return love of god is called grace,, this is the very mystery that will burn all of our sins before we go beyond the 3 worlds of maya..without the grace of god we still be wondering in maya.. those who love god they will earn true mukti or salvation, but those who love maya death will never leave them
 
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spnadmin

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Two questions harcharanjit ji

1. This one you have not answered on a different thread. Maybe you will answer it here. How does one "earn naams" according to gurmatt/Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

2. Let's say there is a sadhu who has attained turyia in his lifetime, while he is alive in a physical body. How does he live outside of the influence of the 3 gunas?
 
Oct 19, 2012
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Two questions harcharanjit ji

1. This one you have not answered on a different thread. Maybe you will answer it here. How does one "earn naams" according to gurmatt/Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

2. Let's say there is a sadhu who has attained turyia in his lifetime, while he is alive in a physical body. How does he live outside of the influence of the 3 gunas?
thanks ji.. for your first question the way out is to go in.. outwardsly we can stay in a style that is mention in our scriptures, to do our prayers daily and other activities that are related.. here we have to give a respect to guru granth sahib..then if we are very interested to go deep in serious meditation then here a guide help is required.. to find guide gurus that had reach to turiya or 4th stage is very difficult at the moment... because only kundalini types masters are available now in society..since we even had not taken the first step yet, we can use their help in our meditation to understand what is this maya..but remember we cannot start worshipping them and defining them as satgurus.. jivanmukt 4th stage gurus are very difficult to find them this days if i am not mistaken.. kundalini masters only give you deeper understanding of what is mind and body, in other words what is maya is.. their teachings are not related to the manifestation of soul but only related to mind and body and energy levels..soul only manifest above the 10th door above the eyes..yes it s true that everything cannot be earned in one life time, but at least the understanding about the seed of maya is already been planted in us.. this dna will be with us life after life, maybe under the grace of god it will become more easier to earn mukti or naam in our next life.. everything in maya is a continueation undergoing changes.. for naam we need a satguru who had already visited the 4th stage. now in society we have many maya kundalini masters, we can start using their help but we cannot worship them or define them as a satgurus.. we just want to learn the art of meditation from them.. but if they started doing some rituals that are objected in sikhism, then avoid it.. we only touch the feet of a jivanmukt guru who had already earned naams beyond the 4th stage


for your second question for a sadhu who had already visited the 4th stage and naams must be always with society so he can help others.. but the probelm is most of this jivanmukt are not in societies, they stay far away and avoid society and this is not correct.. if he only thinks for his only mukti then he is self centred person.. this is the reasons why sometimes searching them becomes a difficult task.. only kundalini masters are easily found in society this days... outwardsly he should stay in a egoless mode of life and ready to help society not to avoid society.. thanks
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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IN other words...The SGGS is Not a Complete..Sampooran GURU...its good......BUT when it comes to "serious meditation" we NEED a Kundalini Master..a LIVING jeewnmukt..or a Satguru who has earned Naam...etc etc...and there you have it..the Dera Beas Guru..the Namdharee Guru..the Sirsa Guru..the Brahmgyani..the Yogis Harbahjan..etc etc who WILL "compliment" the SGGS to make one a "Complete" man..a truly meditating man..a jeewan Mukt ?? The SGGS ALONE CANNOT do that ???

Since I am IN MALAYSIA..cna any one POINT ME in the DIRECTION of a KUNDALINI MASTER who cna help me FINISH what my study and fiath in SGGS for 50 years has NOT Succeeded in making me Jeewanmukt ?? Additionally do I also need the DG/Sarbloh Granth./mahabharta/Ramayanna Puransa etc for "deeper meditation" / for my Spirituality INCREASEMENT or is a Kundlaini master enough ??

All this while I was under the Misconception that the ONLY GURU..The SGGS is ENOUGH for a SIKH...what a foolish thought...I need a Kundlaini master RIGHT AWAY !!!
 

kds1980

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That is quite a lot of definitive statement there, not all Sikhs believe in reincarnation or transmigration, some believe in total death, but to be honest, does it make any difference? We get one shot at finding the correct way to behave, think, speak, act, after that its game over regardless.
Are there shabads in Guru granth sahib which say about total death?
 

japjisahib04

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Are there shabads in Guru granth sahib which say about total death?
Let us first know what is death and life in the lense of gurbani. In our nitnem we daily recite, 'aakha jeevan visrai mar jaon' (when I delve in gurbani I live and forgetting I die) or 'Nanak jit vaila visrai mera suwami *** vailai mar jao' - When I forget you Oh my beloved I die. SGGS 562.4 - Now do I physically die by ignoring the gurbani and or am not living? This mean through these pankties, guru sahib is trying to convey the definition of janam and maran and is referring to spiritual death or spiritual living and not physical death. Thus baani is all about spiritual.

To die every instant - 'pal pal marna' Guru sahib describes like this, 'par dhan par tan ... ava gavan hoat hai funn fuun eh parsangh na tuteh' SGGS. 971.2 - every moment I die and am reborn and yell like a dog or bite like a snake, am arrogant like lion, conspire to people fight like a crane, and this cycle is not coming to an end until I focus my eyes at others wealth, others beauty, indulge in slandering others etc. I don't expect whether people judge me as good or bad but when I am not at peace within myself, I don't take it like living but dead. So as per gurbani this aava gavan - reincarnation - transmigration is spiritual death or living.

What is Naam. Naam is awareness - awareness of functioning of His hukam. Naam has further been elborated like, 'gur giaan padhaarath naam hai har naamo dhaee dhrirraae | (page 759 SGGS) The wisdom of the Guru is the treasure of the Naam. The Guru implants and enshrines the Lord's Name. gur kai bachan dhiaaeiou mohi naao | (page 239). So Naam is not a tanglible. "It" has to be 'validated' in context of the words of the Guru..i.e. Shabad. One may get it in an instant others may sit for ages, embroiled in rituals and chantings and still be at sea. But the necessary condition for it to be internalised it through Bibek (power of discernment in an awake/prepared mind). In the end it is all about our intent or chaz achaar. If the intent is to control others (i.e. ego reigns supreme), then both bibek and Naam are distant dreams.

Best regards
Mohinder sahni
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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YES Ishna Ji..I agree 110%..Sahni Ji has hit the nail good and proper.

IF anyone still doenst get it..then yes he/she/IT... definitely needs to get in touch with harbahjan Yogi( Via Astral travel through deeeeeeep meditation of course...)... and drink his Golden temple TEA....( a few thousnd cups will make his Kunda-LEENEE begin swinging..ha ha..and he /she/It will be Jeewan MukT - FREE of Life..(meaning physically dead from kidney failure /liver failure/or just Tea overdose)...haaaaaaaaaaaaa!!
 

Harry Haller

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the whole of sikhism is a destiny to break away from cycles of birth and death
Hmm I thought that was Hinduism.Out of the many facets of Sikhism, my thoughts were that it was more important to value this one and only life, rather than get caught up in some big picture. I think its quite simple, just live a good honest life and make a difference to those around you.

not going to heaven or hell where ego still exist in maya..
But this maya is where we make our difference, within this maya is life, real life, cars, buildings, people, animals. It puts more importance on where you are, rather than who you are. Ego exists everywhere, to say there is some special place where we are all perfect, takes away from the understanding and wisdom which must be learned before one can put the ego where it belongs. What good is everlasting life if it has to be spent without crossing a boundary (thank you Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade), better to change yourelf surely..

that salvation or mukti cannot be earned easily just by doing goodness only
Do you think that truly enlightened people give a damn about salvation or mukti? Do you think truly enlightened people count the goodness they do to see how close they are to earning anything? I think those that are truly enlightened focus on doing the best they can for the people round them, for Creation, and if Creator feels they have earned anything, than salvation/mukti, or no salvation/mukti is all the same.

true heaven in sikhism is such khand located beyond maya-universal mind
all sounds a bit selfish, I find true heaven is the ability to give without thought of receipt, to act within Hukam, and to savour the connection with Creator.

all of this should be earned thru meditation in a human birth..in meditation we must be able to rise higher beyond the 3 gunas,, or beyond where there is no ego,, or enter into the 4th stage consciousness
and then do what exactly? What do we do then? start a Dera?

since in sikhism we believe in laws of causes and affects, karmas.. whatever that is earned in meditation will be taken after death..
not all of us my friend, Creation is the biggest judge and leveller without involving Creator. Smoke, you get cancer, drink, you get liver problems, fornicate casually, you get STD's, there is nothing mysterious or magical about any of this, its common sense.

that is the ticket to cross maya, maya is a snake a very cunning shadow counterpart of mind and body..it will always show you temporal not permanent things like artificial heavens and hells..it creates deceptions and confusion.. to rise higher we need the lord s GRACE here.. thru the true love to god grace is earned.. return love of god is called grace,, this is the very mystery that will burn all of our sins before we go beyond the 3 worlds of maya..without the grace of god we still be wondering in maya.. those who love god they will earn true mukti or salvation, but those who love maya death will never leave them
Maya is where Creation is, its where we can embrace Creation, I do not recall the tenth master in rags looking for enlightenment, the general depiction is a man that lived in the world, that accepted the problems of the world, that tried to do something about them, whilst enjoying Creation, whislt hunting, holding court, with poets and culture.

Can you not see that this path is the very path we should be avoiding, we should not be scared of Maya, like a child is scared of fire, we should be using it, embracing it, just not be sold by it, know it for what it is, runnning away , in my view, defeats the very purpose of why we are here.

Why are we here? In my view not to find the 10th door, the third eye, the 7th toilet, etc etc, its really very simple, to do Creators work, to be an ambassador of Creator on earth, to do the will of Creator, and to be happy and content along the way, to not make falsehoods a God, to take things as they come, to see value in things other than material, :interestedkudi:
 
Oct 19, 2012
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dear members
in sikhism to believe in god is gurmukh. and to reject him is manmukh.. since we believe in God s Will, then the real defination to be used is transmigration of souls not reincarnation.. in reincarnation it is believe in always getting human birth, going forward, no way of going backwards into animal kingdom, because here My Will is working not god s will. in transmigration of souls, the believe in god s will is strong here, and since god is powerfull, we can be thrown backwards into animal kingdom. but this is very rare because god has very strong compassion qualities in him, but remember he is still powerfull, no weakness in him. in our daily jap mool we are also mentioning, god is powerfull, remember that. another thing sikhism does not believe in heavens and hells.. every form taken in the 84 lakhs forms, is a hell for us, and ego exist in heaven and hell state. ego is the cause of going thru this 84 lakhs ego forms.. sikhis should find mukti, and rise higher then heavens and hells.. ultimate remedy here is still the NAAMS
 
Nov 17, 2007
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Re: Dominance of Rituals in Sikh Religion

Huck Finn Ji,
Page 368 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
“ਅਵਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ॥ ਇਸੁ ਧਰਤੀ ਮਹਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੀ॥” ਮ: 5 ਪੰਨਾ 374 Panharee measn servants..those who carry water for you..
sikdaree is lorship/sardaree.
The HUMAN is SIKDAAR..meaning up and above all other life forms.Human Life is special..foremost...peak of creation. This earth is for the human..to "rule over".Others serve YOU.
Imho such a concept is also present in the Bible...
This earth is not for humans. Don't misquote one tuk out of whole Shabad. You seem to be reading more Sikhmarg than Gurbani.
It is long thread. I am only on 3rd page, not going to read anymore. You are trying to change meanings of Gurbani to fit reasoning done by your brain. If you can't grasp something out of Gurbani, instead of trusting word of Guru, you twist the words to fit your point.
Have fun!
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Re: Dominance of Rituals in Sikh Religion

This earth is not for humans. Don't misquote one tuk out of whole Shabad. You seem to be reading more Sikhmarg than Gurbani.
It is long thread. I am only on 3rd page, not going to read anymore. You are trying to change meanings of Gurbani to fit reasoning done by your brain. If you can't grasp something out of Gurbani, instead of trusting word of Guru, you twist the words to fit your point.
Have fun!
No body is under nay 'compulsion" to read beyond even the Title...I am surprised you went up to Page 3..Good for you Ji...( But its NOT my FAULT)

Heres what Prof SAHIB SINGH JI says..in SGGS Darpan..and The ENTIRE SHABAD is quoted...

Page 374
ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਪੰਚਪਦੇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਨੀਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ॥ ਦੁਤੀਆ ਤੇਰੀ ਮਨੀਐ ਪਾਂਤਿ ॥ ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਆ ਤੇਰਾ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਥਾਨੁ ॥ ਬਿਗੜ ਰੂਪੁ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਸੋਹਨੀ ਸਰੂਪਿ ਸੁਜਾਣਿ ਬਿਚਖਨਿ ॥ ਅਤਿ ਗਰਬੈ ਮੋਹਿ ਫਾਕੀ ਤੂੰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਅਤਿ ਸੂਚੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਾਕਸਾਲ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਪੂਜਾ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਲਾਲ ॥ ਗਲੀ ਗਰਬਹਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਗੋਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨ ॥ ਸਭ ਬਿਧਿ ਖੋਈ ਲੋਭਿ ਸੁਆਨ ॥੨॥ ਕਾਪਰ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਭੋਗ ॥ ਆਚਾਰ ਕਰਹਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਮਹਿ ਲੋਗ ॥ ਚੋਆ ਚੰਦਨ ਸੁਗੰਧ ਬਿਸਥਾਰ ॥ ਸੰਗੀ ਖੋਟਾ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਚੰਡਾਲ ॥੩॥ ਅਵਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ ॥ ਇਸੁ ਧਰਤੀ ਮਹਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੀ ॥ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰੂਪਾ ਤੁਝ ਪਹਿ ਦਾਮ ॥ ਸੀਲੁ ਬਿਗਾਰਿਓ ਤੇਰਾ ਕਾਮ ॥੪॥ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਮਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ॥ ਸਾ ਬੰਦੀ ਤੇ ਲਈ ਛਡਾਇ ॥ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਫਲ ਓਹ ਕਾਇਆ ॥੫॥ ਸਭਿ ਰੂਪ ਸਭਿ ਸੁਖ ਬਨੇ ਸੁਹਾਗਨਿ ॥ ਅਤਿ ਸੁੰਦਰਿ ਬਿਚਖਨਿ ਤੂੰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੧੨॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 374}


and HE SAYS EXACTLY what I QUOTED. "OH Human..Your Joonee is Supreme...highest..Your RULE is over ALL..and you have wealth....


Yes I do READ SIKH MARG....and also SGGS...and also Prof sahib Singh, Faridkotee teeka and many others...AND ALL say the SAME THING.
 

Harkiran Kaur

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This is an interesting topic and I am surprised I didn't find it before now!

My take on this may be a little different than others... because in one way I do believe in reincarnation but in another I do not. And let me explain why:

I believe that there really is only ONE universal consciousness in existence. We are all a part of that Universal consciousness. Like characters in a dream, only this is the dream of the Creator. When you dream at night, all the characters seem to act independently, but in reality they are all you, even if you only experience the dream through the eyes of one particular character. So my take on Maya or the Illusion, is that separateness IS the illusion. There is really only ONE of us here!

Now why do I believe in reincarnation? The same reason I believe in evolution. An idea... any idea, needs to be firstly created, and then expanded upon. Like an artist starting a sculpture. It starts out primitive, then gains more form. In our case, this evolution was necessary in order for consciousness to develop at the level we have now. In reality Waheguru IS the only consciousness, but in the process of the evolution of the creation, Waheguru had to experience everything. And everything evolved over time to the point of having human consciousness - the necessary step to realize our origin and merge back with the ONE universal consciousness that is Waheguru.

So basically I both believe in reincarnation (within the illusion) and do not believe in reincarnation, because in reality we are all ONE. In reality the only thing in existence is Waheguru. We are the dream of the creator.

Or put by someone else I read awhile back, We are all examples of the ONE creator subjectively experiencing creation through many eyes (us). But in reality there really is only the creator and there only ever was the creator.

This is supported in Gurbani:

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p.736

ਬਾਜੀਗਰਿ ਜੈਸੇ ਬਾਜੀ ਪਾਈ ॥
Bājīgar jaise bājī pā▫ī.
The director stages the play,

ਨਾਨਾ ਰੂਪ ਭੇਖ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ ॥
Nānā rūp bẖekẖ ḏikẖlā▫ī.
playing the many characters in different costumes;

ਸਾਂਗੁ ਉਤਾਰਿ ਥੰਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਓ ਪਾਸਾਰਾ ॥
Sāʼng uṯār thamiĥa▫o pāsārā.
but when the play ends, he takes off the costumes,

ਤਬ ਏਕੋ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥
Ŧab eko ekankārā. ||1||
and then he is one, and only one. ||1||

ਕਵਨ ਰੂਪ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਓ ਬਿਨਸਾਇਓ ॥
Kavan rūp ḏaristi▫o binsā▫i▫o.
How many forms and images appeared and disappeared?

ਕਤਹਿ ਗਇਓ ਉਹੁ ਕਤ ਤੇ ਆਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Kaṯėh ga▫i▫o uho kaṯ ṯe ā▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Where have they gone? Where did they come from? ||1||Pause||
The above points out the fact that Waheguru IS the director (creator) of the play (this reality) AND all the characters (us). So what does that say about reincarnation? Within the 'play' it certainly can be real, but that is still only a part of the illusion. The true reality is ONE-ness. All the incarnations, births, deaths, etc are part of the illusion so in reality they do not exist!! And since the separateness is so convincing to us, and we are so cut off from our origin, it is true that we have only this one life to realize that fact. Because if we wake in another birth within this illusion, we essentially start over with no knowledge again - and knowing only separateness.

There are also many references to the fact that this world is a dream... the dream of the creator:

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p.18

ਜਗੁ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਬਾਜੀ ਬਨੀ ਖਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਖੇਲਾਇ ॥
Jag supnā bājī banī kẖin mėh kẖel kẖelā▫e.
The world is a drama, staged in a dream. In a moment, the play is played out.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p.63

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਵੀਚਾਰੀਐ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਇਹੁ ਜਗੁ ਲੋਇ ॥੭॥
Gurmaṯ ho▫e vīcẖārī▫ai supnā ih jag lo▫e. ||7||
Through the Guru's Teachings, they come to understand and see that this world is just a dream. ||7||
There are so many quotes like this I won't post any more here...

So the way I have come to see things, is that everything is really ONE and this reality is a dream... like our dreams we can create and in our dreams we are all the characters. (borrowing on something from the movie Matrix) If you could never wake up from your dream you may never know you were actually sleeping! Instead, you play out many different characters (incarnations), not knowing that you are really ALL the characters because you see and experience them as separate. But if you could wake up, you would easily see that everything in the dream was really you.
 

bairaagi

SPNer
Dec 25, 2011
23
35
gurgaon
This is an interesting topic and I am surprised I didn't find it before now!

My take on this may be a little different than others... because in one way I do believe in reincarnation but in another I do not. And let me explain why:

I believe that there really is only ONE universal consciousness in existence. We are all a part of that Universal consciousness. Like characters in a dream, only this is the dream of the Creator. When you dream at night, all the characters seem to act independently, but in reality they are all you, even if you only experience the dream through the eyes of one particular character. So my take on Maya or the Illusion, is that separateness IS the illusion. There is really only ONE of us here!

Now why do I believe in reincarnation? The same reason I believe in evolution. An idea... any idea, needs to be firstly created, and then expanded upon. Like an artist starting a sculpture. It starts out primitive, then gains more form. In our case, this evolution was necessary in order for consciousness to develop at the level we have now. In reality Waheguru IS the only consciousness, but in the process of the evolution of the creation, Waheguru had to experience everything. And everything evolved over time to the point of having human consciousness - the necessary step to realize our origin and merge back with the ONE universal consciousness that is Waheguru.

So basically I both believe in reincarnation (within the illusion) and do not believe in reincarnation, because in reality we are all ONE. In reality the only thing in existence is Waheguru. We are the dream of the creator.

Or put by someone else I read awhile back, We are all examples of the ONE creator subjectively experiencing creation through many eyes (us). But in reality there really is only the creator and there only ever was the creator.

This is supported in Gurbani:



The above points out the fact that Waheguru IS the director (creator) of the play (this reality) AND all the characters (us). So what does that say about reincarnation? Within the 'play' it certainly can be real, but that is still only a part of the illusion. The true reality is ONE-ness. All the incarnations, births, deaths, etc are part of the illusion so in reality they do not exist!! And since the separateness is so convincing to us, and we are so cut off from our origin, it is true that we have only this one life to realize that fact. Because if we wake in another birth within this illusion, we essentially start over with no knowledge again - and knowing only separateness.

There are also many references to the fact that this world is a dream... the dream of the creator:





There are so many quotes like this I won't post any more here...

So the way I have come to see things, is that everything is really ONE and this reality is a dream... like our dreams we can create and in our dreams we are all the characters. (borrowing on something from the movie Matrix) If you could never wake up from your dream you may never know you were actually sleeping! Instead, you play out many different characters (incarnations), not knowing that you are really ALL the characters because you see and experience them as separate. But if you could wake up, you would easily see that everything in the dream was really you.

This post forced me to put up my thoughts as well.
I am also very much impressed with the following theories/movies :

1. E=mc2
2. Big Bang Theory
3. Special Theory of relativity
4. Matrix Trilogy (loosely based in Shreemad Bhagwat Geeta)
5. Inception Movie

E=mc2 : Explains how energy and mass are inter controvertible which means It is either single energy flowing across the universe and some where it has been converted to mass and vice versa.
Big Bang : Based on E=mc2 it explains how physical world came into existence and also explains the cycle creating/destruction of solar systems and other objects.
Special Theory of relativity : The only constant is speed of light . Rest of the things are how we see them. Very interesting concepts like time dilation,length contraction and much more. Time dilation is mentioned in Hindu Mythology also like Bhramha's 1 second = lacs of years on earth.

Matrix and Inception are explained by Akasha ji in last post.

Being Software developer sometimes I can also relate the world to objects inside JVM(java virtual machine) ... I am going for too technical :)

When I think very deep sometimes I feel like atheist that world could be self existing :)
When a person is dead and lets says he does not qualify for salvation then he has to go through 84 lac birth cycles (may be earth or some other planet) without memory of last birth . Then what is the point ? To be fair at least last memories should have been carried along so that one can learn from mistakes and find salvation in next birth :)
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,209
Mohinder Singh ji, Thanks for a detailed reflection.

Let us first know what is death and life in the lense of gurbani. In our nitnem we daily recite, 'aakha jeevan visrai mar jaon' (when I delve in gurbani I live and forgetting I die) or 'Nanak jit vaila visrai mera suwami *** vailai mar jao' - When I forget you Oh my beloved I die. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 562.4 - Now do I physically die by ignoring the gurbani and or am not living? This mean through these pankties, guru sahib is trying to convey the definition of janam and maran and is referring to spiritual death or spiritual living and not physical death. Thus baani is all about spiritual.

To die every instant - 'pal pal marna' Guru sahib describes like this, 'par dhan par tan ... ava gavan hoat hai funn fuun eh parsangh na tuteh' Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. 971.2 - every moment I die and am reborn and yell like a dog or bite like a snake, am arrogant like lion, conspire to people fight like a crane, and this cycle is not coming to an end until I focus my eyes at others wealth, others beauty, indulge in slandering others etc. I don't expect whether people judge me as good or bad but when I am not at peace within myself, I don't take it like living but dead. So as per gurbani this aava gavan - reincarnation - transmigration is spiritual death or living.

What is Naam. Naam is awareness - awareness of functioning of His hukam. Naam has further been elborated like, 'gur giaan padhaarath naam hai har naamo dhaee dhrirraae | (page 759 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) The wisdom of the Guru is the treasure of the Naam. The Guru implants and enshrines the Lord's Name. gur kai bachan dhiaaeiou mohi naao | (page 239). So Naam is not a tanglible. "It" has to be 'validated' in context of the words of the Guru..i.e. Shabad. One may get it in an instant others may sit for ages, embroiled in rituals and chantings and still be at sea. But the necessary condition for it to be internalised it through Bibek (power of discernment in an awake/prepared mind). In the end it is all about our intent or chaz achaar. If the intent is to control others (i.e. ego reigns supreme), then both bibek and Naam are distant dreams.

Best regards
Mohinder sahni
The thread title is Support for the Concept of Reincarnation in Sikhism. It is very difficult to resist publishing one's personal theories regarding reincarnation because the idea of it is intriguing and there are so many movies inspired by the idea of reincarnation. Still it is important to stick with the subject matter: does Sikhism support reincarnation? or 84 lak joon?

What do our Nanaks 1 through 10 really say about that? SPN Mentor, Gyani ji, quotes Professor Sahib Singh. The passage gives a roadmap for discussion.

Forum Member Harry Haller ji asks whether a Hindu slant is relevant. Does it help or hinder us?

The quote above by forum member Mohinder Singh Sahni ji is another good example. Sahni ji has not interjected his personal theories. Rather he brings us back to Gurbani.

These 3 replies keep the thread in the realm of Sikh Sikhi Sikhism, instead of migrating somewhere else, maybe to a different subforum. In this subforum it is important to maintain a Gurbani focus. The answer is in Gurbani.
 

Original

Writer
SPNer
Jan 10, 2011
1,053
552
63
London UK
my understanding is this is just a figure Guru Ji picked up to ILLUSTRATE GURMATT. So Since there are no Joons...there is NO REINCARNATION.
Respected Gyani Ji - so knowledgeble a man and so little a reflection of wisdom ! For Gur Ghar, reincarnation was an ailment and nam simran a remedy. How otherwise or from what must Nanak come to the rescue of humankind?

However one may view reincarnation or word it differently, but it indeed be, impossible to understand and interpret the moral base and development of Sikhism without accepting its validity. The reason arguably is quite simple, the deep n profound faith element it inspired and the abiding influence exercised amongst the people at the time denotes reincarnation indispensable.

Thank you !
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,181
Henderson, NV.
Respected Gyani Ji - so knowledgeble a man and so little a reflection of wisdom ! For Gur Ghar, reincarnation was an ailment and nam simran a remedy. How otherwise or from what must Nanak come to the rescue of humankind?

However one may view reincarnation or word it differently, but it indeed be, impossible to understand and interpret the moral base and development of Sikhism without accepting its validity. The reason arguably is quite simple, the deep n profound faith element it inspired and the abiding influence exercised amongst the people at the time denotes reincarnation indispensable.

Thank you !
Original ji,

Guru Fateh.

Your many recent posts stated here claim the same as above and then you have flip flopped in many a times about the same concept as well. You may check them by yourself if you wish to.

Please tell us for the last time, what your final stance is and I would like to urge you to use whole shabads from the SGGS,our only Guru for your stance either way. You have also mentioned that what you have learnt about Sikhi and stand by it from your forefathers which is commendable but please understand that most of us if not all have been blessed with the same lineage as you have been, hence yours in not the unique situation in that sense. I do not feel the compulsion to talk about mine although they are quite known in our Sikh history.

Tejwant Singh
 

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Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

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As previous, individual words provided, please feel free to correct. My interpretation underneath in blue. Please add in your own understanding and how this shabad influences your life...

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