Stop Disrespecting Satguru Nanak

[Sikh80]

Dear Bhagat Ji,
As desired I am posting the relevant verse/tuks.


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ਹਰਿ ਕੀਆ ਕਥਾ ਕਹਾਣੀਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਣਾਈਆ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਵਿਟੜਿਅਹੁ ਹਉ ਘੋਲੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲਾਈਆ ॥ ਸਭਿ ਆਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਰੀਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਮਨਿ ਚਿੰਦਿਅੜਾ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਤੁਠੜਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੫॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 452}
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pdArQ:- ivtiVAhu—qoN [ hau—mYN [ GolI—sdky [ ijin—ijs (gurU) ny [ siB—swrIAW [ min icMidAVw—mn ivc icqivAw hoieAw [ quTVw—pRsMn [ nwim—nwm ivc [ nwnku—(AwKdw hY) [5[

ArQ:- hy myry ipAwry! mYƒ gurU ny prmwqmw dIAW is&iq-swlwh dIAW g`lW suxweIAW hn, mYN aus gurU qoN sdky jWdI hW ijs ny mYƒ pRBU-pqI dy crnW ivc joV id`qw hY [ hy myry ipAwry! pRBU ny myrIAW swrIAW AwsW pUrIAW kr id`qIAW hn, pRBU pwsy mYN mn-icqivAw Pl pw ilAw hY [
nwnk (AwKdw hY—) hy myry ipAwry! ijs (vf-BwgI mnu`K auqy) prmwqmw dieAwvwn huMdw hY auh prmwqmw dy nwm ivc lIn ho jWdw hY [5[

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The meanings are given in Gurmukhi.
Yes, You should be 100% correct that it is a metaphor and I stand corrected.
Thanks for pointing out.
You may like to elaborate further if you happen to know Gurmukhi.

 

[Astroboy]

Sikh80 Ji and All,

ਹਰਿ ਕੀਆ ਕਥਾ ਕਹਾਣੀਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਣਾਈਆ ॥
हरि कीआ कथा कहाणीआ मेरे पिआरे सतिगुरू सुणाईआ ॥
Har kī­ā kathā kahāṇī­ā mėrė pi­ārė saṯgurū suṇā­ī­ā.
The True Guru has preached the sermon of the Lord, O my dear beloved.

ਗੁਰ ਵਿਟੜਿਅਹੁ ਹਉ ਘੋਲੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲਾਈਆ ॥
गुर विटड़िअहु हउ घोली मेरे पिआरे जिनि हरि मेलाईआ ॥
Gur vitṛi­ahu ha­o gẖolī mėrė pi­ārė jin har mėlā­ī­ā.
I am a sacrifice to the Guru, O my dear beloved, who has united me with the Lord.

ਸਭਿ ਆਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਰੀਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਮਨਿ ਚਿੰਦਿਅੜਾ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
सभि आसा हरि पूरीआ मेरे पिआरे मनि चिंदिअड़ा फलु पाइआ ॥
Sabẖ āsā har pūrī­ā mėrė pi­ārė man cẖinḏi­aṛā fal pā­i­ā.
The Lord has fulfilled all my hopes, O my dear beloved; I have obtained the fruits of my heart's desires.

ਹਰਿ ਤੁਠੜਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੫॥
हरि तुठड़ा मेरे पिआरे जनु नानकु नामि समाइआ ॥५॥
Har ṯuṯẖ­ṛā mėrė pi­ārė jan Nānak nām samā­i­ā. ||5||
When the Lord is pleased, O my dear beloved, servant Nanak is absorbed into the Naam. ||5||

 

[Astroboy]

Listen to Yogi Bhajan and give me your views of his remarkable speech.
Awakening to Leadership - Are You Ready? at MrSikhNet

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Sikh this is again a metaphor, Guru Nanak says God is formless and is unseen, so how did guru see Him/Her?
well, Guru Nanak says Lord can be seen only when, you have no anger, lust, etc (those 5 thieves), when you consider human race to be equal, etc. Seeing the Lord is not the point here (because that's impossible), the point is how you can see the Lord, once you start doing that(getting rid of 5 thieves etc etc) you become an amazing person. So amazing that YOU HAVE SEEN THE LORD, because back then (and even now) people thought anyone who saw the Lord must have been a good person.
But seeing the Lord is a metaphor for saying I have gotten rid of my anger, lust, greed etc. I know that the Lord is in everything around us, so I treat everyone equally, and so on.
So, says Nanak my mind is in harmony with the Lord. I have gotten rid of my 5 thieves, believe in equality and selfless service, and so on. Doesn't sound as good as seeing Waheguru? That's why Guru Nanak said I saw Waheguru, and showed us how we can "see" Him/Her.

Maybe, you should post the whole passage.

Good attempt to explain but some things are better known by personally experiencing them.
"Evad oocha hove koi, tis ooche ko jane soe"
Then only shall you realise the truth. We generally try to relate things to our physical/practical experience, the seeing referred here is a spiritual experience and cannot be put into words.

 

[Astroboy]

Ego's tricks...


"One of the great dangers of transformational work is that the ego attempts to sidestep deep psychological work by leaping into the transcendent too soon. This is because the ego always fancies itself much more ‘advanced’ than it actually is."
-- Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson

The Tibetan teacher, Chogyam Trungpa, warned of the trap of spiritual materialism. He says we must be ever diligent to spot the ego’s use of the spiritual journey to further its own ends.
We may think it’s spiritual to yearn for divine connection. And yet, if the longing is to fill an emptiness inside, just how does this differ from the one who yearns for money or possessions to fill the inner void? Do we look to our spiritual practices as proof of our evolved consciousness or as protection against fears?
Any time we use spiritual disciplines to maintain our identity and security, we are not yet on the path of genuine spiritual development.

 

[Astroboy]

Here are a few verses which touch on ego (Haume) from Sri Granth :

Page 13, Line 10
ਸਾਕਤ ਹਰਿ ਰਸ ਸਾਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥
साकत हरि रस सादु न जाणिआ तिन अंतरि हउमै कंडा हे ॥
Sākaṯ har ras sāḏ na jāṇi­ā ṯin anṯar ha­umai kandā hė.
The wicked shaaktas, the faithless cynics, do not know the Taste of the Lord's Sublime Essence. The thorn of egotism is embedded deep within them.
Guru Ram Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


Page 19, Line 9
ਹਉਮੈ ਮਮਤਾ ਮੋਹਣੀ ਸਭ ਮੁਠੀ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
हउमै ममता मोहणी सभ मुठी अहंकारि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ha­umai mamṯā mohṇī sabẖ muṯẖī ahaʼnkār. ||1|| rahā­o.
Egotism and possessiveness are very enticing; egotistical pride has plundered everyone. ||1||Pause||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Page 21, Line 3
ਅਨਹਦ ਬਾਣੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਹਉਮੈ ਹੋਇ ਬਿਨਾਸੁ ॥
अनहद बाणी पाईऐ तह हउमै होइ बिनासु ॥
Anhaḏ baṇī pā­ī­ai ṯah ha­umai ho­ė binās.
The Unstruck Melody of Gurbani is obtained, and egotism is eliminated.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


Page 26, Line 7
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਚੂਕਾ ਮਨਿ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥
अंतरि हरि रसु रवि रहिआ चूका मनि अभिमानु ॥
Anṯar har ras rav rahi­ā cẖūkā man abẖimān.
Deep within, they are drenched with the Essence of the Lord, and the egotistical pride of the mind is subdued.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

 

[pk70]

Ek Musafir - Ajnabi jio
Bhagat Singh has said exactly what you are saying. He is not talking about knowing but how to know and how Gurbani leads us to that path. To express the inexpressible is not a point here. I think in a few words Bhagat Singh has defined the mission of Sikhism: Gurbani leads us to a way that can enable us to experience Him if Guru is followed strictly.
Note. I am not disagreeing on your point but stressing that what Bhagat Singh said is beautiful.

 

[pk70]

Ego's tricks...


"One of the great dangers of transformational work is that the ego attempts to sidestep deep psychological work by leaping into the transcendent too soon. This is because the ego always fancies itself much more ‘advanced’ than it actually is."
-- Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson

The Tibetan teacher, Chogyam Trungpa, warned of the trap of spiritual materialism. He says we must be ever diligent to spot the ego’s use of the spiritual journey to further its own ends.
We may think it’s spiritual to yearn for divine connection. And yet, if the longing is to fill an emptiness inside, just how does this differ from the one who yearns for money or possessions to fill the inner void? Do we look to our spiritual practices as proof of our evolved consciousness or as protection against fears?
Any time we use spiritual disciplines to maintain our identity and security, we are not yet on the path of genuine spiritual development.[/quot

namjap ji
Very true, ego keeps identity. We incline towards spirituality but keep bringing ego in the process of spirituality. The biggest mistake I feel what Sikhs(we) do while praying To Almighty, they make a list of demands (wish) and ask Him to help them(us) out. That list of demands/wish is also a proof of their mind being ********d to ego and deep attachment. After that they hope they are heading towards that ultimate goal. In Gurbani that is why it is said not to ask for any thing from God but His Naam. Contrary practices turn us into hypocrites. Hypocricy is a guarantee of failure in experiecing state of ultimate spirituality.

 

[Astroboy]

Sikh80 posed a question in this thread :
www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/19498-akath-katha-explained-in-gurbani.html

Question :
The katha that cannot be told/said/stated/understood is called as Akath Katha. What is this Katha.?Why has it been stated as above in Granth Sahib ji.?
Anyone in the know of the things may kindly like to share.

pk70 Ji and All,

Your feedback will be much appreciated.

Ekmusafir Ji,

Can you kindly expand on this. Because,

Mere Har Pritam Ki Koyi Baat Sunaweh
So Bhai So Mera Veer.

Bhagat Ji, pk70 Ji, ekmusafir Ji, Sikh80 Ji and namjap Ji have similarities - we all want to know our Lord God - my Veer Ji s. There is perfect harmony here without unnecessary bashing unlike other threads.

 

[Astroboy]

pk70 Ji,

Vinh Tudh Hor Je Mangna,
Sirr DukhaN ke Dukh,
Deh Naam Santokhia,
Utreh Mann Ki Bhukh.

The Tibetan teacher, Chogyam Trungpa, warned of the trap of spiritual materialism. He says we must be ever diligent to spot the ego’s use of the spiritual journey to further its own ends.
We may think it’s spiritual to yearn for divine connection. And yet, if the longing is to fill an emptiness inside, just how does this differ from the one who yearns for money or possessions to fill the inner void? Do we look to our spiritual practices as proof of our evolved consciousness or as protection against fears?
Any time we use spiritual disciplines to maintain our identity and security, we are not yet on the path of genuine spiritual development

I have thought many times about this inner void thing. It is a thirst that seems to go on unendingly. The thirst to be fulfilled. But this fulfillment is really the trick of the ego played on us. The mind has always outsmarted us to make us feel that this fulfillment is our ultimate satisfaction. But since it is an illusion, meaning non-existent, it triggers the emotions to seek satisfaction elsewhere - outwardly.

If we follow our Guru's teaching -
ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਸਉਪਿ ਗੁਰ ਕਉ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
Ŧan man ḏẖan sabẖ sa­up gur ka­o hukam mani­ai pā­ī­ai.
Surrender body, mind, wealth, and everything to the Guru; obey the Order of His Will, and you will find Him.

But we are not willing to let go. In Sikhism we don't need to follow a dehdhari person guru - so that takes away alot of doubts and potholes. We don't have to worry about giving our wealth away to a dehdhari guru and serve him like a slave.

But we need to give our head to the True Guru within us. For it is the door within, which will take us to the Own Country.

This reminds me of a parable - about a mother who complained to a therapist about her son. She said, "Disciplining this boy is just so difficult. Everytime I turn my back and look back again, he's gone." The therapist said, "Your son has a problem in taking instructions. This is what I want you to do. Tie a rope around your waist and hand the other end to your son. Come back the next time with the feedback."
The mother was surprised with the results. She told the therapist that he's stopped dissappearing when she turned her sight away from him. In fact he obediently stays there holding the other end of the rope because now she was his prisoner.

What's the moral of this story/parable ?

That we are holding on to the 5 passions of the mind so tightly and obediently that Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh and Ego (Ahankar) keeps our attention towards them. The mind plays the trick on us that the 5 passions are out prisoners but truly it is the other way around. All we need to do is let go of the rope end which we are holding onto and that sets us free to soar to the heights of our Own Country where the sweet sound of flute is heard.

Ever wondered why Krishna is depicted holding a flute ?
A reminder of the "preetam ka desh" and its beautiful and indescribable nature, probably.

 

[pk70]

namjap ji
Thanks, I just couldnt recall it. This happens to me quite often ! Thanks really!

 

[Astroboy]

ਧਨ ਵਾਂਢੀ ਪਿਰੁ ਦੇਸ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ਸਚੇ ਗੁਰ ਪਹਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਪਠਾੲ​*ਂ​*ੀ ॥
dhhan vaandtee pir dhaes nivaasee sachae gur pehi sabadh pathaaeanaee ||
The soul-bride is separated from her Husband Lord, who lives in His Own Country. He sends the Shabad, His Word, through the True Guru.


ਗੁਣ ਸੰਗ੍ਰਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਰਤੀ ਹਰਖਾਈ ॥੫॥
gun sangrehi prabh ridhai nivaasee bhagath rathee harakhaaee ||5||
She gathers virtues, and enshrines God within her heart. Imbued with devotion, she is happy.


ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਕਰੈ ਸਭੈ ਹੈ ਜੇਤੀ ਗੁਰ ਭਾਵੈ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪਾੲ​*ਂ​*ੀ ॥
prio prio karai sabhai hai jaethee gur bhaavai prio paaeanaee ||
Everyone cries out, ""Beloved! Beloved!"" But she alone finds her Beloved, who is pleasing to the Guru. ||5||

 

[BhagatSingh]

Listen to Yogi Bhajan and give me your views of his remarkable speech.
Awakening to Leadership - Are You Ready? at MrSikhNet

I listened to it, it was amzing, I haven't gotten the chance to listen to the full version though.
One thing I found strange was that when the guy couldnt get SGSS, he got a big black rock and made it Guru Gobind SIngh's spirit. Hmm, sounds like idol worship to me.:}: Just done in another way.
Anyway, everything was awesome! Made me feel like I was part of something bigger.

 

[Astroboy]

Bhagat Ji,

Even I could not grasp what Yogi Bhajan said about the big black rock.He did not explain it properly though.
But see the beauty of his genuine enquiry and effort his group put in, breaking away from the entrapments of pre-conceived Sikhism in Punjab. Remarkable.

 

[carolineislands]

Mr. Namjap Ji,

What is Guru? If it is not God then who is?

God.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji answers my queries.

Please send your opinion in this poll.[/FONT]

Q) Do you get the answers for your questions from SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI?[/FONT]
Ans)[/FONT]
1)[/FONT]Yes.[/FONT]
2)[/FONT]No.[/FONT]
3)[/FONT]Not sure.[/FONT]
4)Do not wish to reveal.[/FONT]

Veer ji

First, like a helpful forum mod, I was going to offer to help you set up a poll on the thread. Then I realized what you were really asking. !!!! Later I will listen to the black rock video. Saw it but did not listen/watch. Nice to meet you.

Black Rock Video sounds like a good title for something though.