Soul Transfer To Another Body

[ActsOfGod]

Apparently it is an accepted theorem in Sikh thought and belief that a soul can transfer from one physical body to another. This is the explanation given of how the 1st human Guru could be in the bodies of all subsequent 9 human Guru's.

This episode of the fiction series Star Trek reminded me of the same concept:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Schizoid_Man_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)#Plot

If soul transfer is a real phenomenon, are there any other instances of it in history? And is it something that could be achievable by any of us, or would you have to be enlightened to be able to access that level of awareness/power?

Another question I often pondered has to do with the mechanics of the process. Presumably, every living human has a soul. So therefore, if another soul merges into your body, how do the two souls co-exist? Does one get subdued or relegated into the background (much like it was depicted in the Star Trek episode)? Or do they both co-exist in the same body? Or do they actually blend and merge, and become one soul? (if it's the last case, then WOW, talk about Union! -- two souls becoming one)

Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

AoG

 

[Ishna]

It maybe not have been the 'soul' that was 'transferred' between the Guru Sahiban; it was the Jyot which was passed on. They held the same Light up for all.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Ten candles lit from the same ORIGINAL Candle...today the SGGS shines with the same JYOT..but its a BOOK made of paper..ink and has no life blood bones etc..

JYOT se JYOT ralee...no souls changing bodies...no way.

 

[Luckysingh]

Apparently it is an accepted theorem in Sikh thought and belief that a soul can transfer from one physical body to another. This is the explanation given of how the 1st human Guru could be in the bodies of all subsequent 9 human Guru's.

Never come across this soul explanation, but I can imagine how and from where it comes about !

Soul travel is the transfer and exit of soul from one physical body to another. This is also called astral travel.

What you are actually talking about or the jyot of the gurus in this sense, is the expansion of consciousness and in this particular case, the Jyot being the supreme higher consciousness.

I find Gyanji's explanation more in line with this in terms of this supreme higher consciousness being awakened in the already occupied bodies with individual soul.

Ten candles lit from the same ORIGINAL Candle...today the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji shines with the same JYOT..but its a BOOK made of paper..ink and has no life blood bones etc..

JYOT se JYOT ralee...no souls changing bodies...no way.

Different bodies= different souls,...
...= but they had the same awakened higher consciousness.

astral travel and soul travel is a lowly procedure that is never encouraged in gurmat.
However, raising your consciousness and awareness up to the higher level of sachkhand whilst alive is what makes the gurmukh ''jivan mukht''

If you look for material and references about this difference between soul travel and consciousness expansion, then you will come across conflicting and overlapping articles. It's just that very few understand it clearly to document and most of them class it as the same thing out of ignorance.

Many authors will claim that 'consciousness expansion' is a form of astral travel and class it as a category, but it's clearly not as your soul does not leave the body and you can't look back and see your body as you would in soul/astral travel.

There is famous story about Guru Nanak ji and the son of a haji that debates and argues with guruji about the existence of other planets and life forms on them. Guru ji then proceeds to show this man that many planets exit in the universe with their own relevant life forms.
It is very often mistranslated that Guruji took the man for a'' soul travel ride'' to show him these worlds of existence, and which you can understand is totally contradicting with Nanak philosophy.
He wouldn't have performed an extraordinary act whereby their souls depart and leave their bodies for an exploration journey.
He simply helped raise and expand the man's consciousness so that he could see and witness these other planets and life forms whilst he was still stood still with his soul and body at wherever they were stood.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Luckysingh ji thanks for a wonderful post.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[chazSingh]

Never come across this soul explanation, but I can imagine how and from where it comes about !

Soul travel is the transfer and exit of soul from one physical body to another. This is also called astral travel.

What you are actually talking about or the jyot of the gurus in this sense, is the expansion of consciousness and in this particular case, the Jyot being the supreme higher consciousness.

I find Gyanji's explanation more in line with this in terms of this supreme higher consciousness being awakened in the already occupied bodies with individual soul.


Different bodies= different souls,...
...= but they had the same awakened higher consciousness.

astral travel and soul travel is a lowly procedure that is never encouraged in gurmat.
However, raising your consciousness and awareness up to the higher level of sachkhand whilst alive is what makes the gurmukh ''jivan mukht''

If you look for material and references about this difference between soul travel and consciousness expansion, then you will come across conflicting and overlapping articles. It's just that very few understand it clearly to document and most of them class it as the same thing out of ignorance.

Many authors will claim that 'consciousness expansion' is a form of astral travel and class it as a category, but it's clearly not as your soul does not leave the body and you can't look back and see your body as you would in soul/astral travel.

There is famous story about Guru Nanak ji and the son of a haji that debates and argues with guruji about the existence of other planets and life forms on them. Guru ji then proceeds to show this man that many planets exit in the universe with their own relevant life forms.
It is very often mistranslated that Guruji took the man for a'' soul travel ride'' to show him these worlds of existence, and which you can understand is totally contradicting with Nanak philosophy.
He wouldn't have performed an extraordinary act whereby their souls depart and leave their bodies for an exploration journey.
He simply helped raise and expand the man's consciousness so that he could see and witness these other planets and life forms whilst he was still stood still with his soul and body at wherever they were stood.

i see in Gurbani it makes reference to 'inner vision being awakened'...would you equate this awareness/consiousness expansion to such inner vision?

through the very short amount of time i have been doing regular simran, i really think the soul doesn't need to go anywhere, our vision is just 'opened' and awareness expanded...

 

[ActsOfGod]

Ten candles lit from the same ORIGINAL Candle...today the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji shines with the same JYOT..but its a BOOK made of paper..ink and has no life blood bones etc..

JYOT se JYOT ralee...no souls changing bodies...no way.

Thanks for the clarification. This has led to more questions:

How is Jyot defined? If it's not the same as the soul, then what does it mean when all 10 Guru's signed their names as "Nanak"?

Does having the same Jyot mean that you share the same memories/experiences/awareness as the original Jyot? What specifically does it mean?

Thanks for elaborating.

AoG

 

[Sherdil]

Thanks for the clarification. This has led to more questions:

How is Jyot defined? If it's not the same as the soul, then what does it mean when all 10 Guru's signed their names as "Nanak"?

Does having the same Jyot mean that you share the same memories/experiences/awareness as the original Jyot? What specifically does it mean?

Thanks for elaborating.

AoG

No bro. Having the same Jyot means having the same divine inspiration. They didn't have the same soul or the same memories. All of the Gurus preached the same message. They wrote their name as Nanak out of solidarity. They all had the same beliefs.

 

[ActsOfGod]

No bro. Having the same Jyot means having the same divine inspiration. They didn't have the same soul or the same memories. All of the Gurus preached the same message. They wrote their name as Nanak out of solidarity. They all had the same beliefs.

To go a little further down the road with this:

I've heard people say that there were 10 Gurus, but in fact there really only was 1 Guru (Guru Nanak Sahib). I always understood this statement in the context of the same soul in different bodies concept. Looking at it from the perspective of the same Jyot, how does it translate?

Thanks!

AoG

 

[Sherdil]

To go a little further down the road with this:

I've heard people say that there were 10 Gurus, but in fact there really only was 1 Guru (Guru Nanak Sahib). I always understood this statement in the context of the same soul in different bodies concept. Looking at it from the perspective of the same Jyot, how does it translate?

Thanks!

AoG

There was one Nanak in the sense that their thought process was perfectly aligned. So Nanak didn't die, he lived on through the successive nine gurus. All of their teachings live on in the Guru Granth Sahib today.

The soul didn't jump bodies because the succeeding gurus were alive before the preceding ones died. Moreover, the Gurus were Jivan Mukht, so their souls were merged with The One. It doesn't make sense for them to occupy a new body.

Personally, I don't believe in a soul. Rather, there is a consciousness that animates an otherwise inanimate body. But that is whole other discussion.

Peace.

 

[Abneet]

To me, Jyot= Divine light that was inside the 10 gurus and is currently in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Nowadays I hear Sikhs saying I like Guru Nanak more than Guru Gobind Singh ji because he was more peaceful.....:angryyoungsingh: they just don't understand how the same jyot was in all of the Gurus. The other annoying part is people saying Guru Nanak was God himself. He was Oneness with God but not God himself.

 

[Luckysingh]

i see in Gurbani it makes reference to 'inner vision being awakened'...would you equate this awareness/consiousness expansion to such inner vision?

through the very short amount of time i have been doing regular simran, i really think the soul doesn't need to go anywhere, our vision is just 'opened' and awareness expanded...

Yep, I would say so..
The soul doesn't go anywhere but that is not to say it can't.
I know some people are able to soul travel or astral travel, as they say.... but this is NOT raising your awareness or consciousness towards God and therefore seems lowly to me.
The inner vision you mention is the same way of describing the consciousness expansion I mentioned.

Because all this talk is about Sukam sareer which is subtle and can't be seen on x-ray/MRI..etc..., then it will always prove difficult to explain fully.

Surprisingly, we have members on here that comprehend the existence of a sukam(subtle) mind in our body yet at the same time deny there can be a soul or atma within us !!

 

[Luckysingh]

Personally, I don't believe in a soul. Rather, there is a consciousness that animates an otherwise inanimate body. But that is whole other discussion.

If you don't believe in soul but believe in a consciousness, then what exactly do you understand the difference to be ?
Maybe you are just complicating it for yourself by over thinking and convincing ?

 

[Luckysingh]

Thanks for the clarification. This has led to more questions:

How is Jyot defined? If it's not the same as the soul, then what does it mean when all 10 Guru's signed their names as "Nanak"?

Does having the same Jyot mean that you share the same memories/experiences/awareness as the original Jyot? What specifically does it mean?

Thanks for elaborating.

AoG

To go a little further down the road with this:

I've heard people say that there were 10 Gurus, but in fact there really only was 1 Guru (Guru Nanak Sahib). I always understood this statement in the context of the same soul in different bodies concept. Looking at it from the perspective of the same Jyot, how does it translate?

Thanks!

AoG

I think that my post tried to explain this is simplistic terms.
If not, which part of post no.4 did you not comprehend and would like me to elaborate ?

I know it gets a little complicated because we are talking about subtle properties of the body, nevertheless, understanding a little can help us in many different areas of gurbani in my opinion.

 

[chazSingh]

No bro. Having the same Jyot means having the same divine inspiration. They didn't have the same soul or the same memories. All of the Gurus preached the same message. They wrote their name as Nanak out of solidarity. They all had the same beliefs.

i think it goes beyond the same beliefs...when you know the truth then one no longer needs beliefs...they 'know'

As lucky ji stated, an awareness/consciousness expansion connected right to the source of everything...thus the message came direct from the source and not from the gurus...as the truth came to them, they spoke it and wrote it, the same source for all the guru's, the same source our own soul yearns to connect with and remember..

 

[chazSingh]

Yep, I would say so..
The soul doesn't go anywhere but that is not to say it can't.
I know some people are able to soul travel or astral travel, as they say.... but this is NOT raising your awareness or consciousness towards God and therefore seems lowly to me.
The inner vision you mention is the same way of describing the consciousness expansion I mentioned.

Because all this talk is about Sukam sareer which is subtle and can't be seen on x-ray/MRI..etc..., then it will always prove difficult to explain fully.

Surprisingly, we have members on here that comprehend the existence of a sukam(subtle) mind in our body yet at the same time deny there can be a soul or atma within us !!

I agree...the internet is littered with people trying to astral travel...i believe if a persons mind is still under the 5 thieves to a great extent, they attract lover experiences...

through Simran, i believe our vibration increases...we become purer...our inner light radiates brightly...allowing us through Waheguru's grace to bypass these lower experiences or regions (whatever you want to call it)...and we see, hear only what we need to on our path to sachkhand (consiousness expansion - god consciousness)

God Bless Ji

 

[Ishna]

To go a little further down the road with this:

I've heard people say that there were 10 Gurus, but in fact there really only was 1 Guru (Guru Nanak Sahib). I always understood this statement in the context of the same soul in different bodies concept. Looking at it from the perspective of the same Jyot, how does it translate?

Thanks!

AoG

AoG Ji

I like to think that the 1 Guru is actually Guru Nanak's Guru; the "Most High".

The Guru's had one common understanding and were spreading the same light of knowledge for all people. Think of it like an Olympic torch going from person to person, and the light it gives off is Truth tearing down useless thoughts and behaviours.

It is no more esoteric than that, and any other descriptions are poetic flourishes.

imho.

 

[Sherdil]

If you don't believe in soul but believe in a consciousness, then what exactly do you understand the difference to be ?
Maybe you are just complicating it for yourself by over thinking and convincing ?

Soul is an Abrahamic construct. Accordingly, it is an essence trapped inside of a living body. It only escapes when the body is deceased. Some people of Abrahamic philosophy believe that the act of sneezing is the soul trying to escape the confines of the body. This is why people say "God bless you" when someone sneezes within their viscinity.

Sikhs do not believe in a soul, but rather a consciousness. The goal of a Sikh is to align the consciousness with the divine. All consciousness comes from a single source. The Gurmukh is encouraged to see all is one, instead of distinguishing between me and you, or us and them. We are collectively a single unit. It is the perception of duality, under the veil of Maya that makes us see otherwise.

This is why I prefer to refer to a consciousness rather than a soul. The soul conjures up a belief in the former, whereas a consciousness conjures up a belief in the latter.

So to return to the original question, Nanak was used by the Gurus to refer to themselves and refer to the reader as well. This demonstrates that all is one. We are all Nanak in an essence. There is no "me" or "you". There is no Haumai (Hum Hai = I am).

This is the more esoteric version of what I was trying to say.

 

[chazSingh]

Soul is an Abrahamic construct. Accordingly, it is an essence trapped inside of a living body. It only escapes when the body is deceased. Some people of Abrahamic philosophy believe that the act of sneezing is the soul trying to escape the confines of the body. This is why people say "God bless you" when a someone sneezes within their viscinity.

Sikhs do not believe in a soul, but rather a consciousness. The goal of a Sikh is to align the consciousness with the divine. All consciousness comes from a single source. The Gurmukh is encouraged to see all is one, instead of distinguishing between me and you, or us and them. We are collectively a single unit. It is the perception of duality, under the veil of Maya that makes us see otherwise.

This is why I prefer to refer to a consciousness rather than a soul. The soul conjures up a belief in the former, whereas a consciousness conjures up a belief in the latter.

So to return to the original question, Nanak was used by the Gurus to refer to themselves and refer to the reader as well. This demonstrates that all is one. We are all Nanak in an essence. There is no "me" or "you". There is no Haumai (Hum Hai = I am).

This is the more esoteric version of what I was trying to say.

agree wholeheartedly, once ego is dissolved, all is one....all is God..no me, no you...all in one and one in all

soul or consciousness? just two words humans use to try to describe the same thing...a part of us which is beyond the body and the mind...either way it's there...and it's our true reality...its who we really are only the mind wants to call it something.
I often say 'soul' and it doesn't bring about the belief in the former example you gave...i guess it's how you yourself perceive these words...

i know this thread is not about Simran/meditation ... but through Naam Simran, one can start to realise very quickly that we are not the body...that we are so much more than what our Ego has led us to believe...

 

[Ishna]

Further references to Naam simran in this thread will be deleted without notice. Chazji, It can not go on like this.