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Sikhism Is Not The Same As Hinduism, Islam Or Christianity Etc

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Randip Singh, Jul 29, 2008.

  1. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Writer Historian SPNer Thinker Supporter

    May 25, 2005
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    ..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    Hi all ,

    There seems to be a flurry of threads that seem to surrounding this issue. I am interested in why people are so concerened about proving Sikhism is a branch of Hinduism?

    I have heard arguments from Islamists that Sikhism is a corrupted form of Islam.

    In another book I read (about a Sikh who became a Christian), the book is at pains to describe Sikhism as an offshoot of Christianity?

    I want to understand why this argument rears its head every now and then? Why do people need to prove Hinduism is Sikhism and vice-versa?
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  3. dalsingh

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    Jun 13, 2006
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    I think a part of the issue is attempts by some to absorb Sikhi into Hinduism's pantheon. This has political dimensions.
  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    1947-2014 (Archived)
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    Jun 17, 2004
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    I am glad this is in Hard Talk, and am planning to post here too. I am getting private messages from Gursikhs asking for broad and balanced coverage of this topic.
  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Apr 4, 2005
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    The main problem is Hinduism itself don't have any defination.Any person can himself claim himself as hindu.even hindu's who don't beleive in god claim themselves as hindu atheists.so this is the biggest problem while comparing hinduism with sikhism
  6. Archived_Member_19

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    (previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t

    Jun 7, 2006
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    sikhism is completely different from any religion

    sikhi is same as any other concept :)
  7. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    Feb 15, 2006
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    Hinduism doesn't have a problem recognizing or defining itself.

    Hinduism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Only anti-Hindu prejudices keep defining it as something altogether insidious, corrupt and hostile and undesirable. It's just a culture with some very ancient and meaningful spiritual philosophies. People keep describing politicians, corrupted fake babas, spies and anti-communal elements as "Hindu." Is that really necessary? Should the world define the worst behavior of Sikhs as "Sikhism?" The majority of the worlds religions share some part of the original ancient teachings, because Hinduism is one of the mother religions of the world. Why does everyone keep getting bent out of shape and trying to deny that? Take the best and leave the rest and give respect for what is beautiful. Isn't that tolerance the essence of Gurbani?

    Everyone is so hung up on identities. And nothing of this earth or these identities is permanent. Everything is passing away, why cling to meaningless outward forms anyway? The spiritual essence is eternal truth. It can't pass away. The written words can pass, but the light of truth behind them is eternal. No one can lay claim and own it. It isn't a matter of any individual community's pride. Truth is truth. It is the timeless essence of the God. And the Light of God's truth belongs to everyone, to all God's children in the whole world. Sectarian prejudices are the death of peace. A million wars are in these hatreds and divisions. The Light of truth flows in the spaces between thoughts and words expressed in genuinely spritual concepts and the harmony between people. Let's bless that harmony. People who draw dividing lines only create conflicts and the greed of political jostling for self-importance, prominance and power. To have, they take the beauty from others and define it as "their own."

    Please, let's not do this with spirituality of Sikhism. It's contrary to the Guru's teachings to have a concept of independant nationhood as if Sikhs would inherit a legacy of owning the expensive booty at the expense of everyone else. The nationhood of the Khalsa Raj is destined to be one of service and sacrifice. There will be no self-enrichment of petty kings and dictators. In the Sat Yug it will be the leadership of authentic, inclusive and all embracing spirituality that puts the other guy first. So let's dispense with these materialistic notions of "Sikh nationhood." Khalsa Raj will not belong to the Sikhs. They will belong to the whole world, and even universes upon universes, because they will establish Dharmic harmony. That is the authentic teaching about "Sikh nationhood." The Lord Himself shall rule. And the holy people will establish justice and equality. That is the meaning of Khalsa Raj.

    On point A:
    Are Sikhs as a community largely descended from the culture and people of the Indus Valley?

    And the answer is, yes. Sikhs are not a different culture, a superior Aryan race, a separate nationhood. All that colonial baloney should have died with British ownership of India. While acknowledging Hindu society largely intermarried and gave eldest sons to be raised as Sikhs, you still hear people talking about how Sikhs come from Aryan Pathans and Scythians and look scornfully down on Indic people. That is so shamefully filled with self-hatred. The French colonials did this exact same thing with Rwandan tribals, fostering a self-hatred and racist/cultural divide so complete it led to genocide. These petty distinctions are colonial attitudes. It has nothing to do with spirituality, which is why saints of every religion see the universal One truth in the highest teachings of every faith, irrespective of superficial outer differences.

    But from a realistic viewpoint, when categorizing Sikhism as a separate religion, a number of untruths arise. First, the independance creates discord, just as we see inflamatory and insulting comments degrading the value and spiritual validity of the Hindu faith. Second, we see a notorious judgmentalism creep in where people adopt positively abusive attitudes toward Hindu's in general. And third, this separatism promotes a fundamental schism between Hindu's and Sikhs as pertains to political objectives, so in some issues the communities are at each others throats.

    When you talk of voter blocs, it's precisely this attitude, "We're going to vote as Sikhs, for Sikh issues and pro-Sikh politicians" which is so undermining the best interests of the Punjab as a whole. One of the most shameful things is you have people shouting for independant Khalistan, and spending money to propagate this, make offices where they can become chairman of this and that. And Vandana Shiva, a Hindu, is the one actually going around trying to create financial relief programs to help the farmer suicide crisis. So what kind of Khalistan would we even have, if the leadership doesn't even care about the farmers? If the leadership doesn't even care about supporting the orphans of their own militants? It's so fake it has to be addressed. These attitudes are poison. No truth is in them.

    On point B:
    Are Sikh teachings related enough to Vedanta to be considered part of Dharmic religion?

    And the answer is, yes. Sikhism doesn't have enough points of departure or any new ideology which would even conflict with the fundamental Vedic teachings and Puranic clarifications regarding definitions of God, creation, salvation, purpose of life, method of attaining purification through japping Naam Gurmantra, Guru-Shishya relationship necessary for liberation etc. Sikhism remains a completely Indic spiritual philosphy, recognized by Abrahamic religions immediately by the characteristics commonly seen as "Hindu:" reincarnation, transmigration, moksha, samadhi, yoga, devas, avataars, pantheistic all-pervading Oneness.

    Despite the many sectarian differences within Hinduism, and they are at times profound, there remains an overiding, definable spiritual theme in Dharmic belief systems. And that is what they share from Vedanta, all the above themes found within Sikh theology are Vedic. They are learned philosophies from the Vedas. And that is how the religions and scholars of the world will define you, regardless of how you define yourselves, because they will have that recognition, despite denials, of what is fundamentally a Dharmically rooted faith. So you can call yourselves whatever you like, but these facts will not change. And then it just becomes a matter of questioning self-delusion.
    The Dharmic teachings of how to obtain righteousness, and what is the reality of the universe, within Gurbani are Vedantic.

    On point C:
    Did Sikhism distinguish itself as separate community, by helping the Hindu community when it was in distress?

    And the answer is, no. It is completely incredible that the Sikhs, as a standing Army, considered the Hindu villagers from their native villages, as "foreigners," as altogether different from themselves. Most especially, since the overwhelming majority of Sikhs were born in Hindu families, and this includes the families of the Gurus. And during time of crisis, war, massacre, rape and torture, the Sikhs did not decide to be brave and noble and lay down their lives to protect these "corrupted," "hypocritical," and "deluded" people and rescue their "fake" idol-worshipping religion. That's just not even tenable as a thesis statement. It sounds as if the Moghals have been reborn as modern Sikhs when you find attitudes like these towards Hindus. And these attitudes and comments are common enough to warrant concern for the spiritual jeevan of the Sikh community. What kind of self-definition is this, which defines Sikhism in terms of "not being as bad as the Hindu's are?" What the Sikhs heard and felt within their being, was women and children and old people crying under terrible oppression. And their hearts opened up. They related to their own "family members" undergoing hardships of military occupation. This is what they were fighting and dying for as Khalsa. The whole purpose of a spiritual Army was to protect Dharam, to protect righteousness, to defend the innocent from harm, to be willing to die for justice. Because the Sikh Guruji heard the Hindu people crying, He lifted His sword against injustice, no matter the cost. Do you really think the Sikh Guruji who taught that "I am not a Muslim, I am not a Hindu" did not understand that the human soul has no parentage, no religion?

    And so people say, "I am not a Hindu, I am a Sikh." But Guruji didn't say, "I am not a Muslim, I am not a Hindu, I am a Sikh!" Because a Guru is not the disciple, and Sikh means disciple. So if Guruji is not a Hindu in a way to divide people, why are Sikhs trying to be Sikh identity, in a way to divide people? It's totally contrary to what Guruji said.

    What I find, is when people say they are not a Hindu, they are a Sikh, it means something different from this tuuk of Gurbani. It means, "I look down on Hindu India and distance myself from what I disrespect." And that kind of attitude, which despite denials, is VERY prevalent, is actually filled with self-loathing. Because culturally, racially, even within spiritual philosophy, how different are Sikhs from Hindus? And the answer is "not very different." Diffferences have been exaggerated. But they remain unbelievable.

    Just as Gurbani often has tuuks which seem to say the opposite thing, but are reflections of different principles and no true contradiction at all, so there exists historical commentary such as Guru Nanak Dev Ji, born in a Hindu family and being a Guru traveling to Mecca and being warned not to pass there because the Moghals kill Hindus. And we hear Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji to Aurengzeb, when given the choice to convert to Islam or die, saying:

    utra bhandyo dharma hum Hindu | aati priya ko kim kare nikandu ||
    lok parlok ubhay sukh dani | aanan paayiyat yahi samaani ||
    mati maleen moorakh mati jey-yi | isko tyagey paamar soi ||
    Hindu dharma rakhey jag mahi | tumre karey vinsai yeh nahi ||

    "My answer is that I am a Hindu and I love Hindu Dharma.
    How can anybody destroy it? It provides happiness both in this world as
    well as in the other world. There is no other religion like it. Only a
    deranged person or a fool would leave it to become vile. Hindu dharma
    would remain in the world for ever. It is not going to be destroyed by
    your efforts."

    Even if you pick apart the word "Hindu" and remove it from your minds and consciousness, banish it from your communities with a sigh of relief. You will all still remain the spiritual sons and daughters of a beautiful and unique heritage rooted in the richness of the people of the Indus Valley. So call yourselves a separate "nation," a separate "people," and a "separate "religion" if you like. Just don't be dismayed if other people within Sikhism view it differently. Try not to get so carried away with being different that you lose what was most precious about Sikh Satguruji in all His wonderful forms, and that is the cherishing of humanity, and willingness to embrace as spiritual equals, even the Muslims who were horrifically oppressing Hindustan.

    Don't forget to be a brother and a sister, not just among yourselves, but of the whole world.

    ~Bhul chak maaf karni ji
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  8. dalbirk

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    May 24, 2008
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    Dear Harjas Ji ,
    Have u ever pondered why & how Buddhism was strangulated out of India by Adi Shankracharya & his followers in 8th & 9th century , despite Buddhism being followed by 80% of Indian population in 5th , 6th & 7th century AD . Another thing I wish to point out is during Maharaja Ranjit Singh's time Sikh population in Punjab had reached ONE CRORE ( Ten Million ) reduced to 18,00,000 ( 1.8 Million ) in 1861 census which ultimately increased to 4.5 Million in 1941 census mainly due to the efforts of favourite whipping boy , THE SINGH SABHA MOVEMENT . Are we not hastening our own demise by trying to prove Sikhism out & out as a sect of Hinduism ? Is history repeating itself ? I may tell u I'm living in India & I don't think Khalistan is a good idea due to lack of practicability , rather I'm all for propagating Sikhism to each & every of 800 Million Hindus in India , which if happens will automatically change India's character to a Khalistan one .
    Raaj Karega Khalsa , Aaki Rahe na Koi .
    Regards ,
    Dalbir Singh
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  9. singhbj

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    Nov 4, 2007
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    How is Sikhee different ?


    The only way in which Daas can prove how Sikhee is different is to compare it with other faiths through divine Baanee (teachings from Guru Granth Sahib). Daas does not mean to offend or slander any religion, but will also not hesitate in speaking the truth.

    ਕਰਮਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਚੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਧੁਰਿ ਬਖਸ ਨ ਮੇਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੬॥(ang 62)
    kuram milai such paaeeai dhur bukhus n maettai koe
    Receiving His Grace, we obtain Truth. No one can erase His Primal Blessing.


    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮ: ੧ ॥(Ang 140)
    shalok mehlaa 1.Shalok, First Mehl:

    ਮਿਹਰ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
    mihar maseet sidak muslaa hak halaal kuraan.
    Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran.

    ਸਰਮ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਰੋਜਾ ਹੋਹੁ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ॥
    saram sunat seel rojaa hohu musalmaan.
    Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.

    ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਬਾ ਸਚੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਕਲਮਾ ਕਰਮ ਨਿਵਾਜ ॥
    karNee kaabaa sach peer kalmaa karam nivaaj.
    Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant.

    ਤਸਬੀ ਸਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਸੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਖੈ ਲਾਜ ॥੧॥
    tasbee saa tis bhaavsee naanak rakhai laaj. 1
    Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor. 1

    Guru Nanak Dev Jee has made it crystal clear in this Shabad to become a pure Muslim or a pure minded being; virtuous living is of highly importance.

    ਮ: ੧ ॥(Ang 141)
    mehlaa 1.
    First Mehl:

    ਪੰਜਿ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ਵਖਤ ਪੰਜਿ ਪੰਜਾ ਪੰਜੇ ਨਾਉ ॥
    panj nivaajaa vakhat panj panjaa panje naa-o.
    There are five prayers and five times of day for prayer; the five have five names.

    ਪਹਿਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਹਲਾਲ ਦੁਇ ਤੀਜਾ ਖੈਰ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥
    pehilaa sach halaal du-e teejaa khair khudaa-e.
    Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God.

    ਚਉਥੀ ਨੀਅਤਿ ਰਾਸਿ ਮਨੁ ਪੰਜਵੀ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਸਨਾਇ ॥
    chauthee nee-at raas man panjvee sifat sanaa-e.
    Let the fourth be good will to all, and the fifth the praise of the Lord.

    ਕਰਣੀ ਕਲਮਾ ਆਖਿ ਕੈ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਸਦਾਇ ॥
    karnee kalmaa aakh kai taa musalmaaN sadaa-e.
    Repeat the prayer of good deeds, and then, you may call yourself a Muslim.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇਤੇ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ਕੂੜੈ ਕੂੜੀ ਪਾਇ ॥੩॥
    naanak jete kooRi-aar kooRai kooRee paa-e. 3
    O Nanak, the false obtain falsehood, and only falsehood. 3

    Guru Sahib has made it apparent in this Shabad that just by praying 5 times a day one does not become a good Muslim, one has to praise the Lord with every breath.

    ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥
    musalmaan kahaavaN mushkal jaa ho-e taa musalmaaN kahaavai.
    It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.

    Guru Sahib says in this Shabad one has to put away the delusions of life and death, submit to Gods will, rid selfishness and be mercyful to all beings; Guru Jee says it is difficult to become a true Muslim - a disciple of Prophet Mohammeds faith.

    ਸਕਤਿ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਕਰਿ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕਰੀਐ ਮੈ ਨ ਬਦਉਗਾ ਭਾਈ ॥(Ang 477)
    sakat sanehu kar sunat karee-ai mai na bad-ugaa bhaa-ee.
    Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny.

    ਜਉ ਰੇ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਮੋਹਿ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਕਰੈਗਾ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਕਟਿ ਜਾਈ ॥੨॥
    jau re khudaa-e mohi turak karaigaa aapan hee katt jaa-ee. 2
    If God wished me to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself. 2

    ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕੀਏ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਜੇ ਹੋਇਗਾ ਅਉਰਤ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੀਐ ॥
    sunat kee-e turak je ho-igaa aurat kaa ki-aa karee-ai.
    If circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman?

    This shabad is by Bhagat Kabeer Jee, a Muslim who meditated on the Mantra Raam. He says I teach both Hindus and Muslims, I meditate with every breath.

    ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਸੋਈ ਮਲੁ ਖੋਵੈ ॥(Ang 662)
    musalmaa so-ee mal khovai.
    One who cleanses himself of impurity is a Muslim.

    Guru Sahib has made it quite clear the only way to become a true Muslim is to purify ones mind through the praises of the Lord 24 hours a day. Guru Sahib has written extensively about the Hindus and Muslims failing in their practice, it is difficult to express. Muslims say all non-Muslims are classed as Kaafirs (non-believers) and we have no right to live unless we convert to Islam.

    ਢੂੰਡੇ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਸਭ ਪੀਰ ਪੈਕੰਬਰ ਕਉਮਿ ਕਤੇਲੇ॥(Bhai Gurdas ji's - Vaar 1, PauRee 26)
    dhoondde hindoo turak sabh peer paikambar koum katele
    All the sects, pirs, paigambars of the Hindus and Muslims were seen (by Baba Nanak).

    Bhai Gurdaas Jee says all the holy men of Hindus and Muslims threw away their teachings of God through their ego. There is no equality; Muslim women keep themselves covered where as men don’t, men are allowed 4 wives, women just 1 husband, Muslims do good for 1 month during fast, for the rest of the year they are slaves to their minds desires. Women are not allowed in mosque for prayer (Muslim holy place of worship). There are many more negatives, but there is no need to continue so Daas will stop here.


    Hindus believe in many rituals, for example, Rakhree, wearing threads around their bodys to class themselves higher than others (Janeoo), they believe in high and low castes, idol worship - God cannot be seen through a stone he is only found from within through devotional worship of Simran (meditation). They believe in more than one God, Gods and goddesses. There are so many flaws in these religions, Daas feels bad in going through so many negative points of each religion.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਿਆ ਟਿਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਤਗੁ ॥੧॥(ang 467)
    naanak sache naam bin ki-aa tikaa ki-aa tag. 1
    O Nanak, without the True Name, of what use is the frontal mark of the Hindus, or their sacred thread? 1

    ਹਿੰਦੂ ਅੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਤੁਰਕੂ ਕਾਣਾ ॥(ang 874)
    hindoo anHaa turkoo kaaNaa.
    The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye.

    Most of the Shabads in Guru Granth Sahib Jee Guru Jee talks about Muslims and Hindus together, on how they should improve their practices. In this Shabad Bhagat Naamdayv, a Hindu Bhagat is saying a Hindu has no spiritual wisdom and a Muslim has realized a little bit, then he says Naamdayv knows more as he meditates on the Lord.

    ਮ: ੧ ॥(Ang 951)
    mehlaa 1.
    First Mehl:

    ਹਿੰਦੂ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਆਵੈ ॥
    hindoo kai ghar hindoo aavai.
    The Hindu comes to the house of a Hindu.

    ਸੂਤੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਪੜਿ ਗਲਿ ਪਾਵੈ ॥
    soot jane-oo paR gal paavai.
    He puts the sacred thread around his neck and reads the scriptures.

    ਸੂਤੁ ਪਾਇ ਕਰੇ ਬੁਰਿਆਈ ॥
    soot paa-e kare buri-aa-ee.
    He puts on the thread, but does evil deeds.

    ਨਾਤਾ ਧੋਤਾ ਥਾਇ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥
    naataa Dhotaa thaa-e na paa-ee.
    His cleansings and washings will not be approved.

    ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥
    musalmaan kare vaddi-aa-ee.
    The Muslim glorifies his own faith.

    ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਰ ਪੀਰੈ ਕੋ ਥਾਇ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥
    vin gur peerai ko thaa-e na paa-ee.
    Without the Guru or a spiritual teacher, no one is accepted.

    ਰਾਹੁ ਦਸਾਇ ਓਥੈ ਕੋ ਜਾਇ ॥
    raahu dasaa-e othai ko jaa-e.
    They may be shown the way, but only a few go there.

    ਕਰਣੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥
    karNee baajhahu bhisat na paa-e.
    Without the karma of good actions, heaven is not attained.

    ਜੋਗੀ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਦਸਾਈ ॥
    jogee kai ghar jugat dasaa-ee.
    The Way of Yoga is demonstrated in the Yogi's monastery.

    ਤਿਤੁ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਕਨਿ ਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਪਾਈ ॥
    {censored} kaaraN kan mundraa paa-ee.
    They wear ear-rings to show the way.

    ਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਪਾਇ ਫਿਰੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ॥
    mundraa paa-e firai sansaar.
    Wearing ear-rings, they wander around the world.

    ਜਿਥੈ ਕਿਥੈ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੁ ॥
    jithai kithai sirjaNhaar.
    The Creator Lord is everywhere.

    ਜੇਤੇ ਜੀਅ ਤੇਤੇ ਵਾਟਾਊ ॥
    jete jee-a tete vaattaa-oo.
    There are as many travellers as there are beings.

    ਚੀਰੀ ਆਈ ਢਿਲ ਨ ਕਾਊ ॥
    cheeree aa-ee dhil na kaa-oo.
    When one's death warrant is issued, there is no delay.

    ਏਥੈ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੁ ਜਾਇ ਸਿਞਾਣੈ ॥
    eithai jaaNai so jaa-e sinjaaNai.
    One who knows the Lord here, realizes Him there as well.

    ਹੋਰੁ ਫਕੜੁ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੈ ॥
    hor fakaR hindoo musalmaaNai.
    Others, whether Hindu or Muslim, are just babbling.

    ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਦਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
    sabhnaa kaa dar lekhaa ho-e.
    Everyone's account is read in the Court of the Lord;

    ਕਰਣੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਤਰੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
    karNee baajhahu tarai na ko-e.
    without the karma of good actions, no one crosses over.

    ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
    sacho sach vakhaaNai ko-e.
    One who speaks the True Name of the True Lord,

    ਨਾਨਕ ਅਗੈ ਪੁਛ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥
    naanak agai puchh na ho-e. 2
    O Nanak, is not called to account hereafter. 2

    Daas has cut this Shabad short as it is quite a long Shabad.

    Bhagat Kabeer Jee

    ਹਮਰਾ ਝਗਰਾ ਰਹਾ ਨ ਕੋਊ ॥(Ang 1158)
    hamraa jhagraa rahaa na ko-oo.
    I have no quarrel with anyone.

    ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਛਾਡੇ ਦੋਊ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    panddit mulaa(n) chhaade do-oo. 1 rahaa-o.
    I have abandoned both the Pandits, the Hindu religious scholars, and the Mullahs, the Muslim priests. 1Pause

    ਬੁਨਿ ਬੁਨਿ ਆਪ ਆਪੁ ਪਹਿਰਾਵਉ ॥
    bun bun aap aap pehiraavau.
    I weave and weave, and wear what I weave.

    ਜਹ ਨਹੀ ਆਪੁ ਤਹਾ ਹੋਇ ਗਾਵਉ ॥੨॥
    jeh nehee aap tehaa ho-e gaavau. 2
    Where egotism does not exist, there I sing God's Praises. 2

    ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਜੋ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੀਆ ॥
    panddit mulaa(n) jo likh dee-aa.
    Whatever the Pandits and Mullahs have written,

    ਛਾਡਿ ਚਲੇ ਹਮ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਲੀਆ ॥੩॥
    chhaad chale ham kachhoo na lee-aa. 3
    I reject; I do not accept any of it. 3

    ਰਿਦੈ ਇਖਲਾਸੁ ਨਿਰਖਿ ਲੇ ਮੀਰਾ ॥
    ridai ikhlaas nirakh le meeraa.
    My heart is pure, and so I have seen the Lord within.

    ਆਪੁ ਖੋਜਿ ਖੋਜਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਕਬੀਰਾ ॥੪॥੭॥
    aap khoj khoj mile kabeeraa. 47
    Searching, searching within the self, Kabeer has met the Lord. 47

    The Bhramins would not let the shadow of a so called low caste come in to contact with their body. They would take a bath saying they are filthy.

    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮ ੧ ॥(Ang 471)
    shalok mehlaa 1.
    Shalok, First Mehl:

    ਦਇਆ ਕਪਾਹ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਸੂਤੁ ਜਤੁ ਗੰਢੀ ਸਤੁ ਵਟੁ ॥
    de-i-aa kapaah santokh soot jat gandhee sat vatt.
    Make compassion the cotton, contentment the thread, modesty the knot and truth the twist.

    ਏਹੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਜੀਅ ਕਾ ਹਈ ਤ ਪਾਡੇ ਘਤੁ ॥
    eihu jane-oo jee-a kaa ha-ee ta paadde ghat.
    This is the sacred thread of the soul; if you have it, then go ahead and put it on me.

    ਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਤੁਟੈ ਨ ਮਲੁ ਲਗੈ ਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਜਲੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
    naa eihu tuttai na mal lagai naa eihu jalai na jaa-e.
    It does not break, it cannot be soiled by filth, it cannot be burnt, or lost.

    ਧੰਨੁ ਸੁ ਮਾਣਸ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜੋ ਗਲਿ ਚਲੇ ਪਾਇ ॥
    Dhan so maaNas naankaa jo gal chale paa-e.
    Blessed are those mortal beings, O Nanak, who wear such a thread around their necks.

    ਚਉਕੜਿ ਮੁਲਿ ਅਣਾਇਆ ਬਹਿ ਚਉਕੈ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
    chaukaR mul anaa-i-aa behi chaukai paa-i-aa.
    You buy the thread for a few shells, and seated in your enclosure, you put it on.

    ਸਿਖਾ ਕੰਨਿ ਚੜਾਈਆ ਗੁਰੁ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਥਿਆ ॥
    sikhaa kann chaRaa-ee-aa gur braahmaN thi-aa.
    Whispering instructions into others' ears, the Brahmin becomes a guru.

    ਓਹੁ ਮੁਆ ਓਹੁ ਝੜਿ ਪਇਆ ਵੇਤਗਾ ਗਇਆ ॥੧॥
    ohu mu-aa ohu jhaR pa-i-aa vetgaa ge-i-aa. 1
    But he dies, and the sacred thread falls away, and the soul departs without it. 1

    The janeoo thread is put around the neck of a Hindu Bhramin stating he is high class and well versed in the Hindu scriptures. Guru Nanak Dev Jee refused to wear this thread when the Bhramins come to put it on him as a child, Nanak repeated the Shabad above. Guru Sahib made it quite clear the only way these 2 religions would purify their practice would be to praise the Lord Athe Pehar (24 hours). Both the Hindus and the Muslims tried to claim Guru Nanak was their Peer (saint).


    Jain is a religion in which practices a lot of different forms of meditation and takes virtues like compassion to the extreme penance, they always keep their mouth covered believing bacteria is in the air which has life and if it enters the mouth they would have sinned by killing. They sweep the floor before them sweeping aside any Insects to prevent them from stepping on them.

    This is most definately not Gurmat (teachings of the Guru) this is a hinderance in ones practice in attaining the Lord through devotional worship, the other thing is if we are not aware of something it is not a sin, Guru Sahib made us Gristhee (householder life in society) it is difficult to take up these extreme practices in society this is why Guru Sahib took extremism away from Sikhee to teach the world by example by living in it, just like when Guru Nanak went to do parchaar (preach) he wore their robes so they would listen to him, Gods message was sent to liberate the world and not just Sikhs.

    ਜੈਨ ਮਾਰਗ ਸੰਜਮ ਅਤਿ ਸਾਧਨ ॥(Ang 265)
    jain maarag sanjam at saaDhan.
    you may adopt the self-mortifying ways of the Jains and great spiritual disciplines;

    ਨਿਮਖ ਨਿਮਖ ਕਰਿ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਕਟਾਵੈ ॥
    nimakh nimakh kar sareer kattaavai.
    piece by piece, you may cut your body apart;

    ਤਉ ਭੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਵੈ ॥
    tau bhee haumai mail na jaavai.
    but even so, the filth of your ego shall not depart.

    ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਸਮਸਰਿ ਕਛੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
    har ke naam samsar kachh naahi.
    There is nothing equal to the Name of the Lord.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਤ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥੨॥
    naanak gurmukh naam japat gat paahi. 2
    O Nanak, as Gurmukh, chant the Naam, and obtain salvation. 2

    ਜਾਪ ਤਾਪ ਭ੍ਰਮਨ ਬਸੁਧਾ ਕਰਿ ਉਰਧ ਤਾਪ ਲੈ ਗੈਨ ॥(ang 674)
    jaap taap bhraman basuDhaa kar uraDh taap lai gain.
    Chanting, deep meditation and penance, wandering over the face of the earth, the performance of austerities with the arms stretched up to the sky -

    ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਨਹ ਪਤੀਆਨੋ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜੈਨ ॥੨॥
    eh biDh neh patee-aano thaakur jog jugat kar jain. 2
    the Lord is not pleased by any of these means, though one may follow the path of Yogis and Jains. 2


    Guru Sahib talked more about the Eastern religions in his Baanee as they were slightly more spiritual and they were the areas he did his preaching, very little is said in Gurbaanee about Christians. Daas' personal view after talking to a few Christians is that they do not meditate on the Lord so therefore, their mind cannot be purified through the name of the Lord. They believe in virtues but these are a waste of time without Naam as one is only virtuous through self ego. They say Jesus was the Son of God, Guru Sahib says we are all the Sons and Daughters of God and we can become one to one with the Lord, Christians do not believe this, they do not believe in life after death, nobody knows the true teachings of Christianity as the bible has been changed numerous number of times, the women cover their heads in church the men don’t (no equality). Daas believes any faith which does not believe in liberation whilst alive (Jeevan Mukhatee) has weaknesses in its practice.


    Buddhism is a beautiful religion created by lord Buddha he was a very rich prince who gave up his wealth for compassion, contentment and spiritual wisdom, it is very similar to Sikhee in the sense that one can be liberated whilst alive, they believe in many forms of meditation and it is a very virtuous religion spiritually, but sorry to say this beautiful faith which Daas himself loves also has a lot of flaws. Guru Sahib has not directly talked much about the Buddhs in his baanee but he has mentioned them along with the Jains, Yogees, Sidhs, etc as very spiritual beings.

    Buddhists do not believe in God, they say the mind is another name for God once one purifies the filthy mind one will be liberated. This is totally true but as Daas has mentioned in previous posts, having faith in a supreme being (God) reduces ego quicker rather than saying 'I' have to purify 'MY' mind, this is what we are trying to kill 'THE I'.

    ਜਬ ਹਮ ਹੋਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੁਮ ਨਾਹੀ ਅਬ ਤੁਮ ਹਹੁ ਹਮ ਨਾਹੀ ॥(Ang 339)
    jab ham hote tab tum naahee ab tum hahu ham naahee.
    When I was, then You were not; now that You are, I am not.

    ਅਬ ਹਮ ਤੁਮ ਏਕ ਭਏ ਹਹਿ ਏਕੈ ਦੇਖਤ ਮਨੁ ਪਤੀਆਹੀ ॥੧॥
    ab ham tum eik bhe-e heh eikai dekhat man patee-aahee. 1
    Now, You and I have become one; seeing this, my mind is content. 1

    Buddhists shave their hair saying it keeps them simple and it hinders their practice they do not realize all spiritual energy comes from hair (rom), lord Buddha kept his Kes (hair). Women are not allowed to be ordained as Monks, they believe in celibacy; if everyone became a Buddhist what would happen to mankind? We would be extinct.

    Buddhists do not earn a living they beg (bhikhsha). In countries like Thailand they are so well respected people offer them money, who would we beg off if we all became Buddhists, they meditate and spend most their time in monasteries, Guru Nanak Dev Jee declined this type of practice as it does nothing to liberate mankind. They worship idols and also believe in many gods and goddesses. Out of the 5 religions Daas has mentioned, Daas has honestly got to say this is a beautiful religion and spiritually have both eyes open.

    ਕੇਤੇ ਸਿਧ ਬੁਧ ਨਾਥ ਕੇਤੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਦੇਵੀ ਵੇਸ ॥(ang 7)
    kete siDh buDh naath kete kete devee ves.
    So many Siddhas and Buddhas, so many Yogic masters. So many goddesses of various kinds.

    This Shabad states so many religions including the Buddhs only reached the realm of Gyan khand (spiritual wisdom) this is the 2nd khand out of 5, Dharm khand, Gyan khand, Saram khand, Karam khand and Sach khand where God himself resides in all his glory, this is an article on its own so we wont go in to too much detail.

    ਜੋਗੀ ਜਤੀ ਤਪੀ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਬਹੁ ਤੀਰਥ ਭ੍ਰਮਨਾ ॥(Ang 476)
    jogee jatee tapee sani-aasee baho teerath bhramanaa.
    The Yogis, celibates, penitents and Sannyaasees make pilgrimages to all the sacred places.

    ਲੁੰਜਿਤ ਮੁੰਜਿਤ ਮੋਨਿ ਜਟਾਧਰ ਅੰਤਿ ਤਊ ਮਰਨਾ ॥੧॥
    luNjit muNjit mon jataaDhar ant ta-oo marnaa. 1
    The Jains with shaven heads, the silent ones, the beggars with matted hair - in the end, they all shall die. 1

    ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸੇਵੀਅਲੇ ਰਾਮਨਾ ॥
    taa te sevee-ale raamnaa.
    Meditate, therefore, on the Lord.

    How is Sikhee different ?

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ ॥(Ang 308)
    satgur kee baaNee sat sat kar jaaNhu gursikhahu, har kartaa aap muhhu kadhaa-e.
    O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.

    ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾ ਕੇ ਮੁਹ ਉਜਲੇ ਕਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੈਕਾਰੁ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ਸਭਤੁ ਕਰਾਏ ॥
    gursikhaa ke muh ujle kare har pi-aaraa, gur kaa jaikaar sansaar sabhat karaa-e.
    The Beloved Lord makes the faces of His GurSikhs radiant; He makes the whole world applaud and acclaim the Guru.

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਬਣੀਐ ॥(ang 304)
    satgur kee banee sat saroop hai gurbaanee banee-ai.
    The Word of the True Guru's Bani is the embodiment of Truth; through Gurbani, one becomes perfect.

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਹੁ ਇਉ ਆਤਮ ਰਾਮੈ ਲੀਨਾ ਹੇ ॥੧੪॥(ang 1027)
    satgur kee baaNee sat sat kar maanhu i-o aatam raamai leenaa he. 14
    Accept as True, Perfectly True, the Word of the True Guru's Bani. In this way, you shall merge in the Lord, the Supreme Soul. 14

    ਧੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਆਈ ॥(Ang 627)
    Dhur kee baaNee aa-ee.
    The Bani of His Word emanated from the Primal Lord.

    ਤਿਨਿ ਸਗਲੀ ਚਿੰਤ ਮਿਟਾਈ ॥
    tin saglee chint mittaa-ee.
    It eradicates all anxiety.

    How can it be any clearer that Baanee came from God himself through the spirit of Guru Nanak. This amazing faith is the most recent of faiths created by God, he sent Guru Nanak in 1469 to liberate the world after he saw all the other spiritual leaders failed as it is stated in one of the Shabads above, this faith took 230 years to create, this faith was created by 10 Gurus only 6 have written in the Guru Granth Sahib, 19 Bhagats and 11 Bhatts all these souls had purified their mind and become one with God so therefore they spoke the word of God.

    The bhagats were from different faiths and so called lower castes this,shows the equality of this amazing faith. Guru Jee was sent to liberate mankind and spread the message others had failed to do, he took away all rituals, superstitions, extremism, caste system, gave Women equal rights and taught humans how to become one with the Lord in society.

    jab ehu gehe bipran ki reet, main na karun in ki parteet

    Guru Gobind Singh Jee says here when we bring rituals and extreme rules in our life like the bhramins I will not stand by you. An extreme Rehit without Athai Pehar 24 hour Naam Simran, virtuous living is not Gurmat this is where the Bhramins failed as they were not suitable to live in society and spread spiritual wisdom. If the mind has to do any form of Pakhand (hypocrisy) in order to keep a certain Rehit this is also not Gurmat as Guru Sahib kept us clear from Pakhand and blessed us with Sach (truthful living), we should let no practice hinder our loving devotion to God.

    ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਪਾਖੰਡ ਜੋ ਦੀਸਹਿ ਤਿਨ ਜਮੁ ਜਾਗਾਤੀ ਲੂਟੈ ॥(Ang 747)
    karam Dharam pakhandd jo deesehi tin jam jaagaatee loottai.
    The religious rites, rituals and hypocrisies which are seen, are plundered by the Messenger of Death, the ultimate tax collector.

    ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਭਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਪੜਿਆ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥(Ang 747)
    bed kateb simrit sabh saasat inH pai-aa mukat na ho-ee.
    One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Bible, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they will not bring liberation.

    ਏਕੁ ਅਖਰੁ ਜੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਪੈ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸੋਈ ॥੩॥
    eik akhar jo gurmukh jaapai tis kee nirmal so-ee. 3
    One who, as Gurmukh, chants the One Word, acquires a spotlessly pure reputation. 3

    ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥
    khatree braahmaN sood vais updes chahu varnaa kau saa(n)jhaa.
    The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings.

    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪੈ ਉਧਰੈ ਸੋ ਕਲਿ ਮਹਿ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਾਝਾ ॥੪॥੩॥੫੦॥
    gurmukh naam japai uDhrai so kal meh ghatt ghatt naanak maajhaa. 4.3.50
    One who, as Gurmukh, chants the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is saved. In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, O Nanak, God is permeating the hearts of each and every being. 4.3.50

    Guru Sahib states in this Shabad that the Gurus teachings are to liberate mankind not just Sikhs as stated in the Shabad above, Guru Sahib says be truthful in your own faith but you will not be liberated without meditating on the Lords name Athai Pehar 24 hours.

    Guru sahib was strictly against conversions.

    sathigur naanak pragattiaa mittee dhhu(n)dhh jag chaanan hoaa||( Bhai Gurdaas Ji - Vaar Page 1)

    With the emergence of the True Guru Nanak, the mist cleared and the light scattered all around.

    jio kar sooraj nikaliaa thaarae shhap a(n)dhhaer paloaa||

    As if at the sun rise the stars disappeared and the darkness dispelled.

    si(n)gh bukae miragaavalee bha(n)nee jaae n dhheer dhharoaa||

    With the roar of the lion in the forest the flocks of escaping deer now cannot have endurance.

    jithhai baabaa pair dhhar poojaa aasan thhaapan soaa||

    Wherever Baba put his feet, a religious place was erected and established.

    sidhh aasan sabh jagath dhae naanak aadh mathae jae koaa||

    All the siddh-places now have been renamed on the name of Nanak.

    ghar ghar a(n)dhar dhharamasaal hovai keerathan sadhaa visoaa||

    Every home has become a place of dharma where singing.

    baabae thaarae chaar chak noukha(n)dd prithhamee sachaa dtoaa||

    Baba liberated all four directions and nine divisions of earth.

    guramukh kal vich paragatt hoaa ||27||

    Gurmukh (Guru Nanak) has emerged in this Kalyug, the dark age.(27)

    WOW this Shabad says it all about the pure Guru Nanak, there is no equal. Nanak was the Avtar of Kal Jug (dark age). Avtar means immortal being whose mind is pure and is sitting in Sach khand (the gate of truth) waiting for duty by the Lord to come and liberate the world. All the religions above were also created in Kal Jug.

    ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮ ਮਹਿ ਸ੍ਰੇਸਟ ਧਰਮੁ ॥(ang 266)
    sarab Dharam mehi sresatt Dharam. Of all religions, the best religion

    ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਕਰਮੁ ॥
    har ko naam jap nirmal karam. is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.

    ਸਗਲ ਧਰਮ ਮਹਿ ਸ੍ਰੇਸਟ ਧਰਮੁ ॥
    sagal Dharam meh srestt Dharam. Of all faiths, this is the most sublime and excellent faith.

    ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਤੇਰਾ ਹੋਇ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥(ang 895)
    har simran teraa ho-e uDhaar.
    Meditating in remembrance on the Lord, you shall be saved.

    ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕਾ ਉਤਰੈ ਭਾਰੁ ॥੩॥
    janam janam kaa utrai bhaar. 3
    You shall be rid of the burden of countless incarnations. 3

    This Shabad is showing equality, he did not preach faith, he preached the name of the Lord in every line of his Baanee.

    ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਨੇਮ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਪੂਜਾ ॥(ang 199)
    karam Dharam nem barat poojaa.
    The karma of good actions, the Dharma of righteous living, religious rituals, fasts and worship -

    ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਜਾਨੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੨॥
    paarbrahm bin jaan na doojaa. 2
    practice these, but do not know any other than the Supreme Lord God. 2

    ਤਾ ਕੀ ਪੂਰਨ ਹੋਈ ਘਾਲ ॥
    taa kee pooran ho-ee ghaal.
    The works are brought to fruition,

    ਜਾ ਕੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੩॥
    jaa kee preet apune prabh naal. 3
    who place their love in God. 3

    How amazing is Sikhee, Guru Sahib is saying practice religious rituals, fasts etc but if you keep hold of the name with every breath you will be liberated. (there is no need to practice these religious rituals).

    ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨਾ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਤਿਨੀ ਵਿਚੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨੯॥(ang 917)
    kehai naanak gur parsaadee jinaa liv laagee tinee viche maa-i-aa paa-i-aa. 29
    Says Nanak, by Guru's Grace, those who enshrine love for the Lord find Him, in the midst of Maya. 29

    Guru sahib states here that those who love the lord may have wealth, live house holders life, do all the deeds that need to be done in society, have many material luxuries but they will still be detached from all of them because they will have learnt how to let go through the love of Naam.

    Sikhee is different from every faith, Daas can talk all day long about Sikhee through the reference of Gurbaanee, Daas realizes this article is very long and people struggle to read solid text so Daas will try and stop soon, you can judge for your self how Gurbaanee proves we are blessed to be Sikhs. We must have good karam (deeds) to be born into Sikh families but only if we realize what we are here for, so why waste time liberate yourselves through Amrit, Rehit, Naam and Baanee. A Sikh can not be liberated without these four.

    Pritham rehit eh jaan, khandey ki pahul shakey
    The first Rehit is Gurus Amrit.

    Rehit bina na sikh kahaavai,
    without Rehit (discipline) one can not be called a Sikh.

    Without Naam and Gurbaanee one can not be liberated.

    ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥(Ang12)
    bhe-ee paraapat maanukh dhuree-aa.
    This human body has been given to you.

    ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥
    gobind milan kee eh teree baree-aa.
    This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe.

    ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਤੇਰੈ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਕਾਮ ॥
    avar kaaj terai kitai na kaam.
    Nothing else will work.

    ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥੧॥
    mil saaDhsangat bhaj keval naam. 1
    Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; vibrate and meditate on the Jewel of the Naam. 1

    In the Sikh faith Guru Sahib gave all Vadiyaaee (praise) to God, no human being.

    ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਜਨ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਰਲਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਜੈਸੇ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਲਲੈ ਸਲਲ ਮਿਲਾਤਿ ॥੨॥੧॥੮॥(ang 1200)
    te har ke jan har si-o ral mile jaise jan naanak sallai salal milaat. 218
    Those humble servants of the Lord merge with their Lord, O Nanak, like water merging with water. 218

    In no faith does the soul merge with God unlike the Sikh faith stated above. Gurbaanee is a treasure we have failed to pass on to the world, the only way the world will be liberated is through baanee.

    ਇਹੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਜਪੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥(Ang 296)
    ehu niDhaan japai man ko-e.
    One who chants this treasure in his mind -

    ਸਭ ਜੁਗ ਮਹਿ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥
    sabh jug mehi taa kee gat ho-e.
    in every age, he attains salvation.

    ਗੁਣ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਨਾਮ ਧੁਨਿ ਬਾਣੀ ॥
    gun gobind naam Dhun baaNee.
    In it is the Glory of God, the Naam, the chanting of Gurbani.

    ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਬਖਾਣੀ ॥
    simrit shaastar bed bakhaaNee.
    The Simritees, the Shaastras and the Vedas speak of it.

    ਸਗਲ ਮਤਾਂਤ ਕੇਵਲ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ॥
    sagal mataaNt keval har naam.
    The essence of all religion is the Lord's Name alone.

    ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਭਗਤ ਕੈ ਮਨਿ ਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮ ॥
    gobind bhagat kai man bisraam.
    It abides in the minds of the devotees of God.

    ਕੋਟਿ ਅਪ੍ਰਾਧ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਮਿਟੈ ॥
    kott apraaDh saaDhsang mittai.
    Millions of sins are erased, in the Company of the Holy.

    ਸੰਤ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਜਮ ਤੇ ਛੁਟੈ ॥
    sant kripaa te jam te chhuttai.
    By the Grace of the Saint, one escapes the Messenger of Death.

    ਜਾ ਕੈ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਕਰਮ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਪਾਏ ॥
    jaa kai mastak karam parabh paa-e.
    Those, who have such pre-ordained destiny on their foreheads,

    ਸਾਧ ਸਰਣਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਆਏ ॥੭॥
    saaDh saran naanak te aa-e. 7
    O Nanak, enter the Sanctuary of the Saints. 7

    Daas has had veechar (discussions) with many religious people from many faiths and this has brought Daas so much closer to Sikhee, there is no faith like Sikhee, Daas is not being biased - only speaking the truth, Sikhee is not a religion it is a way of life to reunite our souls with the supreme soul God (Param Atma), this is not only for Sikhs it is for the whole of mankind. If anybody knows of even just 1 flaw in Sikhee please email Daas, Daas will try to resolve your query through the light of Gurbaanee as Daas is fully aware this faith is unique.

    Jaago Gursikho, jaago, Panth di thae poore sansar di seva karo Naam thae bani da aasra lai ke, awake Gursikh brothers and sisters serve the Khalsa Panth and the Universe through the teachings of the true Guru (Sat Guru) by meditating 24 hrs with every breath.

    Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee sacrificed all his family and many Gursikhs in battle for Chardee Kalaa (higher spirits, upliftment of Panth), (Saint soldier article) lets ask ourselves what are we doing for the upliftment of the Panth, Guru Sahib is only asking for time towards Sevaa and Simran. If every Gursikh in the Panth pulled together and did they’re little bit in spreading the true word of Guru Nanak Dev Jee Paatsaah Sikhee would be in Chardee Kalaa, there would be so many more Gurmukh sSjjan (beloved friends), and less quarreling over controversial issues which in the end only bring negativity between Gursikhs and the Panth stays at a stand still.

    Can you please email this article to any Monae brothers and sisters you know (Sikhs with cut hair), or alternately introduce them to the blog. *monae brothers and sisters who have not come in to sikhi as yet. Next weeks article is 'Rehansbaaee keertan', why it is important to sit through a full Rehansbhaaee Keertan without going out of the Darbaar? Daas is not trying to promote any Jathebandee when one reads the article one will realize.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. OP
    Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Writer Historian SPNer Thinker Supporter

    May 25, 2005
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    My Mother side of my family are Hindu. I say it has problems defining itself. My mother says it has problems defining itself. I have witnessed Fights and arguments over definitions of Hindu's between my Mothers family. Are they "anti-Hindu prejudices"?

    Madala Vs Lee Dowell disagrees with you and the recent ruling about the girl and her Kara disagrees with you.

    BBC NEWS | Wales | Sikh girl wins bangle law battle

    Fourteen-year-old Sikh girl wins High Court battle to wear religious bangle at school | Mail Online

    While not a requirement of her religion, he accepted the Kara was of ‘exceptional importance’ to Sarika’s racial identity or religious belief.
  11. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    Feb 15, 2006
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    Why oh why... for the 1 millionth time... does EVERYONE define Hindu religion, in contrast to Sikh self-definition, NOT according to philosophy but according to the worst social injustices and hypocritical excesses?

    Seriously, if we are honest, and we were to judge Sikh spiritual teachings, not by the teachings themselves, but by the individual character flaws of the fools promoting the faith, we would also sound like these definitions of Hinduism. Is this not true? I can think of 3 Gurdwara's at the moment so full of scandal, drinking, ripping off sangat's money for personal use, etc. So what I keep trying to say is, let's be REASONABLE when interpreting Gurbani as it pertains to Hindu religion, not as if we ourselves are exempt from criticisms due to the increasing corruption of the age of Kalyug, but in context of Gurbani, where Guruji is NEVER condemned Hindu religion's actual teachings, but only the misinformed superficial, corrupted and egotistical practices. Gurbani is showing how we should ALL be authentic spiritual people and not ritualistic, superficial, hypocritical and corrupted.

    Those criticisms are NOT a definition of Hindu teachings.

    LOL. Okay, a HINDU saint is saying the Hindu has no spiritual wisdom, and the Muslim has realized a little bit. And Namdev the HINDU knows more than both because he meditates on the Lord. This is ridiculous.

    The shabad is saying the one who spends time meditating on the Lord regardless of religion is the one who gains spiritual wisdom.

    Yes and if we didn't have brahmins to pick on we'd have to invent them because there's always SOMEBODY who thinks they're better than everybody else and all their flaws are bigger than the Himalayas. The point about brahmins is not intended to be interpreted as representative of putting down ALL Hindu religion as false, hypocritical and self-righteous. Guruji is showing us the bad example so we don't become like it. Unfortunately, too many Sikhs have interpreted that we ourselves should be the ones with kalank size of Himalayas who won't have anything to do with "Hindu religion." If it even touches us we have to go ballistic and pull out kirpan and go take a bath, hire nine scholars to refute even the slightest hint of it. For the record, the Vaishnav sants who wrote the bhagat bani were a revolution of authentic spirituality which OPPOSED the casteism of brahmin injustices. So the very spiritual reform of brahmin casteism came from within Hindu religion itself. Moreover, Sikhism is surely no comparative religion of difference by this standard as casteism is alive and well at Gurdwara.

    Guru Nanak Dev ji did not refuse to wear the janeo because of it's ritualistic implications as fake worship. First, Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not of brahmin caste. What Guruji was rejecting at tender age was the brahmin wears a silk thread, the Kshatriya wears a cotton thread, and the Vaishya and shudras didn't get to wear a thread. So being a good VAISHNAV, he rejected that he should be unequal with others, as principle among Vaishnav philosophy was reform of the caste and varna system, from hereditary separatism, to authentic spiritual hierarchy. In keeping with Vaishnav sants, believed and taught that the REAL Brahmin was the one who is devoted to love of God, and not some hereditary fiefdom. Gurbani is not entirely against caste. It is against caste discrimination and hereditary distinctions.

    So this is most certainly NOT any example of how Sikhism is different from Hindu religion per se.

    ਜਾਣਹੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਨ ਪੂਛਹੁ ਜਾਤੀ ਆਗੈ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    jaanahu joth n pooshhahu jaathee aagai jaath n hae ||1|| rehaao ||
    Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. ||1||Pause||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 349​

    ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥
    khathree braahaman soodh vais oupadhaes chahu varanaa ko saajhaa ||
    The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings.
    ~SGGS Ji p. 747​

    ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰਿ ਆਸ੍ਰਮ ਹਹਿ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ਸੋ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥
    braahaman khathree soodh vais chaar varan chaar aasram hehi jo har dhhiaavai so paradhhaan ||
    There are four castes: Brahmin, Kh'shaatriya, Soodra and Vaishya, and there are four stages of life. One who meditates on the Lord, is the most distinguished and renowned.
    ~SGGS Ji p. 861​

    ਆਪੇ ਦਸ ਅਠ ਵਰਨ ਉਪਾਇਅਨੁ ਆਪਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਆਪਿ ਰਾਜੁ ਲਇਆ ॥
    aapae dhas ath varan oupaaeian aap breham aap raaj laeiaa ||
    He Himself created the people of the eighteen castes; God Himself acquired His domain.

    ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਆਪੇ ਛੋਡੈ ਆਪੇ ਬਖਸੇ ਕਰੇ ਦਇਆ ॥
    aapae maarae aapae shhoddai aapae bakhasae karae dhaeiaa ||
    He Himself kills, and He Himself redeems; He Himself, in His Kindness, forgives us. He is infallible
    ~SGGS Ji p. 553​

    Gurbani shows the relationship to Vaishnav teaching here. Caste system exists. God created it. But the caste system of hereditary injustice is incorrect, no one should be unjust because of caste. God is in all people without discrimination. No one should be discriminated against because of caste all are equal with respect to the teachings. The spiritual person of low caste becomes equal to an authentic brahmin. As a spiritual philosophy, this particular aspect of Sikhism is borrowed from the original "Hindu" Vaishnav reform movement.

    LOL. To be honest, my attitude after spending a few years in Sikh sangat is exactly the same. Sikhs don't meditate on God either. But they should. Just like the Christians should. Nonetheless, despite the foolishness of the average person, including myself, a few holy people manage to evolve out of Christian and Sikh congregations.

    Since it is a Christian tradition to jap the holy name of Jesus, Jesus for hours, not unlike the Sufi's Allah, Allah, or the Vaishnavs Raam, Raam, or the Sikh's Vaheguru, Vaheguru, I think it is possible for mind of SOME Christians to be purified if they are sincere and follow their spiritual teachings. All religions have become corrupted. But there are saints in all religions.

    In fact, I'm reminded of a few holy people right now that I will share with you all.

    "I desire to become good whatsoever it may cost; take away, destroy, utterly root out all that You find in me contrary to Your holy will."
    Stigmatist and victim soul, Saint Gemma Galgani

    YouTube - If You Want Your Dream To Be ... [brother sun, sister moon]
    The compassionate nonmaterialist Saint Francis of Assisi

    Dying of tuberculosis she said, "He has surpassed my expectations."
    "I will spend my heaven doing good on earth."~Saint Therese of Lisieux

    YouTube - The Capuchin Sisters of Nazareth

    Yes! Gurbani says many kinds of the very same people Sikhs often misinterpret Gurbani as blindly condemning, on careful reading shows Gurbani regards as also highly spiritual. And this includes "Hindus."

    YouTube - ammachi lokah samastah

    No one's practice is hindered. There are 2 main types of yogic renunciation. One, using vibration of the hairs as a spiritual vehicle of amplifying Naam Gurmantra. And another of shaving the head to silence distractions. Both schools of thought have produced powerfully holy sants and God-realized jivanmuktas. Ordained women monks are called "nuns." LOL. Buddhists have nuns as well as monks. So do Christians. So do Hindus. And if you include Nirmala Panthis, so do Sikhs. About mankind becoming extinct is making up such an exaggeration. Buddhists as any other religious path which includes a celibate sannyasi teaching, also includes a householder component. It's far too oversimplified to create artificial distinctions this way.

    YouTube - Sister Nhu Nghiem - Sensuality & Bodhicitta
    Buddhist nun :p

    How can it be, that one of the characteristics which defines flaws of Hinduism, "idol-worship" is overlooked with Buddhists and Buddhism proclaimed to be a beautiful and spiritual religion? Wouldn't it be more likely, that both religions are beautiful and spiritual, but that the average person of any religion in Kaliyug is simply a poor representative of the best and highest teachings?

    The fact that the bhagats in Gurbani had purified their minds and become one with God outside of Sikh religion doesn't say anything about Sikh religion at all. In fact, close examination of the basic teachings of Sikh religion doesn't show any major dissimilarities with the predominate philosophy of Vaishnavism of the bhagats.

    The bhagats were from 2 faiths, Vaishnava Vedanta and Vaishnav influenced Sufism. There were no strictly "Muslim" bhagats. Only Vaishnavs or Vaishnav influenced Sufis. The equality among castes, women and acceptance of Muslims and Allah as being a Naam of God was started by Vaishnavs. So these points alone do not illustrate fundamentals of any "new" Sikh religion.

    For some political reason, Sikhs keep describing Sikhism in terms of how it's so much better than failed Hinduism. This is an injustice and not any correct interpretation of either Hinduism or what Guruji was actually teaching us. It's very clear reading the above passage that Guruji doesn't want His Sikhs, His disciples to fall into the path of corruption, far more than any presumed blanket condemnation of ALL Hindu religion. So many Sikhs today think ANY slightest association of Sikhism or Gurbani with anything remotely Hindu will make it unclean and corrupted and be exactly as intolerable as pakhandi babas and religious hypocrisy, oblivious to the fact that religious hypocrisy is rampant in Sikh institutions. So Sikhism can't be defined as "separate" from Hindu religion on the basis of the worst practices of the least spiritual people. We have the same exact kind of "least spiritual people" in our sangats and leadership...so what are we talking about?

    I agree with this assessment of who Guruji is, per Gurbani teaching as 100% correct. However, ALL religions were not created in the Kalyug. But ALL religions are falling down in the Kalyug.

    Yes, to jap, meditate and sing the praise of the Naam with bhakti and bhairaag, to practice dhyaan and Simran, to give dasvandh, to become a sevadar, to surrender to Guruji and ask for Guru's kirpa, this is the way to cleanse the defilements of mind and heart and wash away karams and sankalpas and obtain liberation. But this doesn't mean nobody besides a Sikh can obtain liberation.

    Yes one can be detached and be a householder. But this is no condemnation of sannyasis. But emphasis on the ability to remain a householder is the message of Kaliyug, just as emphasis on renunciation was the message of previous ages. One is not advanced over the other, and one is not elevated while the other condemned. Both are equal paths of life where a person can attain the highest level of spirituality.

    I'm still waiting to hear what the specific ideological differences which distinguish Sikhi as a religion utterly separate from Hinduism are.

    This is not the amrit-nectar talked about in Gurbani. So Khande Ki Pahul cannot be a spoke on the wheel of liberation. It is a spoke on the wheel of discipleship for the religious Sikhs. Since it stems from the tradition of Guru deekhya or diksha, and is the practice which subsumed charan pahul, Guru foot wash, nothing in this practice distinguishes Sikhism from Hindu religion which also has a tradition of Guru Deeksha.

    True, a disciple must have a disciplined sadhana practice or the life and mind can never change. But rehit per se is not a spoke on the wheel of liberation, it is a spoke on the wheel of discipleship for the religious Sikh.

    You have already stated that Guruji is an avataar for the Kaliyug. And I have read those pauris of Gurbani which expressly state that Guruji is an avataar in the lineage of the Das Avataaras since it follows Gurbani praises the das avataaras as being the Lord God. So if the Nirguna is ONE, and Rama Chandra and NaraSingh and HarKrishan are all avataaras praised in Gurbani just like Guruji... then Gurbani has to include Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad Bhagavatum. Just by logic, you can't be God descended in one sargun form, and then God descended in another sargun form, and it's the same One God, but one message invalidates another. Truth never invalidates itself, it is eternal and unchanging.

    Otherwise, we're twisting Gurbani to make it seem, only a Sikh can be saved, only a Sikh can obtain liberation. And thats patently untrue, since we know the Vaishnav and Sufi bhagats were God-realized before there was even a Guru Nanak. So this is obviously a misinterpretation. And if we accept that Guruji is an avtaar in the lineage of the 10 Vishnu avataars, we have to accept the spiritual legitimacy of the Vaishnav scriptures as Gurbani. Now, I'm not saying a Sikh has to read Bhagavad-Gita and recognize this as Guru Granth. A Sikh has Guru Granth as authoritative bani. But what this says is Guruji isn't the only Satguru. He is the only Satguru for Sikhs. And that is a powerful difference in meaning. Likewise Raam and HarKrishan are Satguru's for other people, and something like Bhagavad-Gita becomes Guru Granth for those other people. It is clear Gurbani has a message of spiritual inclusiveness here which accepts that the One nirgun God is pervading in all sargun forms and spiritual Lights such as avataars. But a Sikh cannot condemn a Vaishnav as not having a boat of mukti, since very legitimately for the Vaishnav, his Gurbani comes from the same avataar lineage. So for a Vaishnav, Bhagavad-Gita is as much a boat of mukti as Shri Guru Granth Sahib bani is a boat of mukti. We cannot delegitimize the spiritual path that produced God-realized bhagats and remain credible, when Guru has included their bani and given the Jyot of Guruship! So when we bow our heads, we bow to the Guru in the teachings of the wise God-realized bhagat bani, written by those who were never Sikhs. Powerful lesson! One does not have to become a Sikh the way we define Sikh identity to become God-realized. But Gurbani explains through inclusion of the das avataaras that there are those who are disciples of Guru in other religions, because what is Guru is not the sargun identity, but the Jyot of the One Supreme All-pervading God. But Gurbani teaches us certain ingredients are necessary. And the highest and easiest path of liberation in Kaliyug... is Naam and bhakti.

    So we can clearly see that Gurbani per se, as modern Sikhs are defining it, is alone not the only true religion in some Abrahamic conception where we need to missionize the world in order to save them. The Path of Guru Nanak Dev Ji is of the very highest truths which have entered the world, with no error. Sikhism shares major doctrinal similarities with Vaishnav Hinduism and no clear points on which to hang the hat called "new and different religion." Additionally, if we analyze Naam, many Naams are given in Gurbani such as Shiva, Raam, HarKirashan, Parabrahm, Vasudeyv, Govinda, Gopala. And we cannot on basis of Naam, exclude Vaishnavas who jap these same Naams, or even Allah which Sufis jap, or even Shiva which Shaivites jap. So it is clear on basis of Naam, Guruji has made no distinction of independant identity where we can claim, "Sikhism is different." Rather, from these points we see, "Sikhism is inclusive." "Sikhism recognizes the reality of God in all religions."

    The worship of the nirguna is not exclusive to Sikhism. Moreover the japping of Naams of sarguna in form of Vishnu avataars is a distinctly Vaishnav teaching. And praise of the sargun avataars is clearly expressed in Gurbani. So the part about "no human being" is not entirely clear. Guruji has explained that the sargun forms are impermananet and fade to dust, we worship the Timeless One who has no form, no birth, no death. YET, Gurbani categorically does not deny OR reject that sarguna in form of das avataaras ARE IN FACT manifestations of the ONE nirgun God. Again, there is no inconsistency with this teaching and Vaishnava Vedanta. So it singularly does not distinguish Sikhi, but rathers proves incredibly close relationship between Sikh spiritual philosophy and Hindu sect of Vaishnavism.

    The merging of the atma with the Paramatma is the basic philosophy of the Vedas. In nearly every Dharmic tradition is this spiritual teaching. It is the essence of Mukti which is a Vedantic concept entirely un-unique to Sikhism. And it clearly distinguishes Sikhism from Abrahamic monotheism and puts it squarely in the ballpark of a faith with Hindu origins. As a Dharmic faith which believes in a God who is All-pervading, we don't have the anxiety of the monotheistic religions to "save the world." We recognize that God has given Light of His eternal truths in many forms throughout the world and throughout human history. Not all lights shine with complete brightness as Sikhi. But the Light and the guidance of the God is there, for everyone, because Guru is One Jyot with all these avataaras. So it can be said Guruji, having merged with the nirguna is also Jesus, is also Krishna. Why should we have anxiety over the spiritual status of other people? What we need is to become spiritual beings so we can bring blessings to a suffering world and shine Guru's Light from within ourselves as much as we can. Because the One Beloved lives in the heart of every human being, every person is my altar. Service to the world is my creed. But it is a service with no missionary character. No need for conversions. Only need to meet the needs. Bless the world with a generous heart, and you will be blessed. When we fail to shine as spiritual lights, it means the suffering continues. So we need as Sikhs, to be good soldiers to conquer the inner enemies so we can overpower outer tyrants and open doors of Light in a world of darkness. Then maybe some little child in some corner of the world won't have to cry and hurt, and he can dance and sing because we shined enough light to lift the darkness. That is the treasure of Guruji's spiritual message.

    There is no flaw with Sikhi, as there is no flaw with Vedanta which is based on the original revealed Sruti given by nirgun God to the rishis at the dawn of recorded history. Sikhi is a faith which proclaims the truths of Vedanta as for origin and nature of reality, creation, sarguna and nirguna, samadhi, mukti, merging, Naam jap of Gurmantara, discipleship with a Satguru (and Guruji is obviously not the only one because Gurbani recognizes for different ages Raam and HarKrishan as Satguru as well). To say there is no faith like Sikhi is entirely innacurate and does a disservice to Hinduism which is so roundly condemned as hypocritical and corrupted at the beginning of this position paper.

    There is, for the record, not one flaw in Sihki. There are however, a number of flaws in the way which it is being modernly interpreted. No less the major flaw of asserting Sikh uniqueness and independance from the Vaishnavism which so permeates every single reform and spiritual teaching of Gurbani itself. And Sikhism is not in any way, the One True Faith, like some Abrahamic creed. Sikhism teaches us that there is One God who manifests in the world in a way that will reach us. Just as there are different people, different minds, different cultures, different understandings, so are there different paths to the same eternal All-pervading Oneness. Don't worry so much about differences and identities. These things are passing away. They have to. It's their nature to pass away. But the light that shines hidden at the heart of things will never fade away. It can only burn brighter.

    "Life has no problems. Only man is in a bondage of his own making."~Murdo McBirney Baines​

    "All shall be well. All shall be well. And all manner of things shall be well; when the tongues of flame are enfolded into the crowned knot of fire and the fire and the rose are One." ~Julian of Norwich, quoted by T.S. Eliot​

    ~Bhul chaak maaf karni ji
    • Like Like x 2
    #10 Harjas Kaur Khalsa, Jul 30, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2008
  12. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Apr 4, 2005
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    Hinduism do have problem in defining itself.The rituals and festivals of hindu's differ a lot from North to south and east to west India.There are strict vegetarians in hinduism and there are tantrics in hinduism who beleive's in practice of animal sacrifice while some also beleive in human sacrifice.Infact news oh human sacrifice by tantriks is common in India.Now if you ask any hindu scholar whether human sacrifice is part of hinduism he will say no .But tantriks have their granths in which this practice is written.So the question is whether a tantrik is hindu or not .If he is not then who is he?

    When britishers conducted census they ordered that any person who is unable to define its religion should be put under the bracket of hinduism and that practice still prevails.
  13. Archived_Member_19

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    (previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t

    Jun 7, 2006
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    harjas ji

    this thing will keep popping up again and again i will not be surprised if you have to explain over and over again

    gr8 post btw

    could not agree more
  14. OP
    Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Writer Historian SPNer Thinker Supporter

    May 25, 2005
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    Is that not how you are defining other religions in comparison to Sikhism?

    People are doing exactly what you are doing?
  15. OP
    Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Writer Historian SPNer Thinker Supporter

    May 25, 2005
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    Could not agree more

    Christians are the followers Of Jesus

    Muslims follow Mohammed

    Buddhists follow Buddha

    Hindu's follow ????

    That is what makes this whole debate a nonsense.
  16. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    Having pointed out the similarities doesn't make Sikhism a sect of Hinduism.
    To understand this further, let's review what similarities can be found between Shia Islam and Sikhism :-

  17. dalbirk

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    SPNer Supporter

    May 24, 2008
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    Dear Harjas Ji ,
    Can u point out how many practising Kabir Panthis , Vaishanvs , Yogis ( Real Yogis ) , the other Hindu followers of all Bhagats like Namdev Ji or others r practcing their original beliefs . About 10 lacs ( One Million ) in total which makes them 0.01% of the Hindu population of India . What is only surviving & prospering is BRAHMINISM , the lure of the Alkaline sea that Brahminism is , is so huge that a person's mind is hopelessly made dead . Why haven't the Bhagats succeeded where Gurus did in initiating the upliftment of the downtrodden making rulers out of untouchables ? Not only did they succeed but they r one of the most properous communities , even in India today . The events of 1984 should not be read somewhat differently than how & why they happened . These were due to single minded resolve of Indira Gandhi & his son Rajiv to break the strength of Sikhs , which were hugely responsible for whatever happenned . THE HINDUISM OF TODAY IS BRAHMINISM ONLY & NOTHING ELSE . Whatever good ( if any ) Hinduism is having is not allowed to progress & come up in limelight . It is immediately banged back to obscurity if anything materalises . What is remaining of Jains & Buddhists , Bhagats , Yogis in India who closed ranks with BRAHMINISM & made amends with it . Gautam Buddha was stated to be one of the 24 Incarnations of Vishnu , his statue established in all Vishnu temples . The Birla Mandir in New Delhi is even today having the statue of Mahatma Buddha as one of the 24 incarnations of Vishnu . What seemed just a friendly gesture of the Brahmins in 8th century ended up as a major reason for the death of Buddhism in India by 11th century .The One God loving Bhagats were shown as Idol Worshipping by the various Sakhis & Tales of Brahmins . Similarly tales about Guru Gobind Singh Ji as worshipping Naina Devi & appearance of Devi abound in RSS literatures these days . This tale of Devi worship was criticised & proven false by Giani Ditt Singh Ji a prominent scholar of the Singh Sabha Movement . He wrote ' Durga Prabodh ' Granth in August , 1899 & proved that the story of Devi Worshiiping was imaginary & written with intent of jealousy .
    See the proof on ground of what is leading to which direction , whether our actions are going to help Sikhism in anyway or harm it rather ? KINDLY DO LEARN THE DEFINITION OF BRAHMINISM before showing this new found HINDU LOVE .
  18. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    Harjas Ji,

    I think you're trying too hard to prove that Sikhism is an offshoot of Hinduism.
    Because Hindus do not see Sikhs as Hindus.
    If they did, there would not be an Operation Bluestar.
  19. OP
    Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Writer Historian SPNer Thinker Supporter

    May 25, 2005
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

  20. dalbirk

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    SPNer Supporter

    May 24, 2008
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    Dear Bhainji ,
    I am talking of Sikhism as different from Hinduism , because the Hinduism practised today is nothing but BRAHMINISM . Even we all personally had to suffer in 1984 & afterwards , I'm not believing in Khalistan or voilence .I live in LUDHIANA ( PUNJAB ) Does that mean I cannot express my views as a Sikh , now that amounts to GENERALISATION . ALL TALK OF SIKHISM AS A SEPERATE RELIGION IS NOTHING BUT TERRORISM & SEPARATISM . That is I suppose u want to say , what is the difference between this & that of RSS that to live in India as a community Sikhs will have to remain as a part of Hinduism . HAS ANY RELIGION OTHER THAN BRAHMINISM SURVIVED IN INDIA BY BEING A PART OF HINDUISM ? I never said anything against Hindus , they r all my brothers & sisters . Infact my closest friends r Hindus & I don't find much of a difference between Sikhs & Hindus as human beings . But I do want Sikhism as a faith progressing in absolute numbers , because as a way of life it is unparrallel as it actually helps the upliftment of an ordinary mortal in all ways , morally , spiritually & economically ( if practised truthfully ) a true way of LIVING EMANCIPATION . U don't have to worry about voilence or Khalistanis , it is never going to happen as I see things for now . So chill , don't harbour unneccesary fears . As for( so called ) Muslims & Sikh alliance , Islam is too rigid & intolerant to accomodate any other INDEPENDENT RELIGION . Muslims r too much occupied with their TAAQUIA ie religious conversion .So this so called partnership is the handiwork of some people who might deem it to be fit , not neccesary that all proud Sikhs approve of it . no GENERALISATION should be here too . Might not last very long . U r attacking the independence of Sikhism on a wrong premise .
    Regards ,
    Dalbir Singh
  21. OP
    Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Writer Historian SPNer Thinker Supporter

    May 25, 2005
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    Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc

    thats fine
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