Sikhism And Homosexuality

[jasi]

this the answer. i m happy to write your inside out how you are brainwashed or committed to your life style . remember thia when you will get little bit old and stay with the same man. you have shown your chracter to all of us by example of animals which they were never blessed withsame itellegence to manuplate thing what please us .

well i have no more comments.you are your own like all others.all majority is wrong and you are right sir. law in canada respect you the same.one day you certanly wake up but it will be too late. remeber God loves every one if there is sinners existing. but the old story says"what you so so shall you reap"

jaspi

 

[CaramelChocolate]

Who exactly has brainwashed me? I wouldn't call being gay a lifestyle, you are more wrapped up in personal homophobic prejudices rather than seeing homosexuality as wrong. I do not like your condescending 'holier than thou' tone. Nobody is perfect - learn some humility.
Your trinity PROVES your values are a result of culture and not of SIKHISM. God is the owner of our souls and no-one else. I don't know why parents have a Godly status, as per Sikhism we will all perish and are all contingent, and that includes our parents. That does not mean one should disrespect one's parents, but callling them the OWNERS of their children's soul? How illogical.
I really do not feel your insulting and offensive tone is helping. You have not taken on board anybody else's views/comments in this debate.

 

[jasi]

by the way i do understand your ignorance and not ready to listen the right music to your ear,name of "mother"sometime got a staus as first god in this world. no one can replace the mother's love. that is what i meant.

secondly for your information it is said by Bhai Gurdas Ji in our scriptures to this extreem."yeh man hoi yarni (chracterless)kion putar patare ,jeh gaoo(cow) nen manak(Hira) niglia pet par na mare"

explanation in sikhism is to this extreem that if even one's mother is a keeping a lover outside her marriage which is not right thing to accept but even then son has not right to critisize her.it is said what He (Bhai Gurdas JI) meant was only how high respect mother should have.

in christinity also in the ten commandments say "thy shall respect your mother and father" all i am doing is to make you understand that i am not the one who make these comments . it is said by by all scriptures. ofcourse we do not like many time when someone try to show the right ways to lead a good life.i am just expressing my feeling on very broad way thinking and keeping my empathy with people who are going through as you are.

you can only express what you know other than when you do not understand ,you get angry. it takes time to get mature to understand these things in life. what you are today has built from the day you were born has effected your growth today under different influences of parents ,sibblings,schools,friends. you can imagin if there had been bad influences that is built in you. you have to slowly undo those permanents effect by taking Nam or start looking after your mother and father if they are in good state of mind.

i am very braodminded person and believe in that if man can make a lots of wrong judgments under the influences of his peers or circumstances still can improve his life styles by following right steps.

good luck.

i am sorry if i offended your feelings in any way. this is a forum where we can share our thoughts according to our itellegence . may be you are more wiser than me.

jaspi

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

configure of brain should have never occured if one person is not associated with that kind of friens who brain has been already configued. so the solution is like "a man is know by the societ he keeps"

best solution is to follow the Guru teachings or amke your friends having no problems especially avoid those who disrespect the parents. remeber the TRINITY . 1/3 of our soul belongs to the spirit and 2/3 belongs to the parents. if you do not belive in trinity then all kinds if immorals deeds will follow you, ofcourse it is abnormal !you do not have to be genoius to understand that. it is abnormal.good luck.

jaspi

Some guys are genetically Black.so nothing can be daone to make them white and it rather unatrual to make them white with plastic surgury as it is in case of michal Jackson.

Guru tells us to saty off the Lust and that includes one with own wife also.

 

[kds1980]

the following is the danger of openly allowing homosexuality

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/411736.cms?headline=It\\\'s~now~cool~to~be~gay~on~Gujarat~campus

AHMEDABAD: Gone are the days when 'bird-watching' was the only obsession on campus hostels. Who needs babes when the young get experimental with people of their own sex?

Playing homosexual games, ragging along gay lines and even chance homosexual encounters by otherwise straight boys and girls have become commonplace in hostels as homosexuality is fast ceasing to be a dirty word. Ask boys in the Gujarat University hostel and they tell you how one of the most popular party games for guys is one where they compare and feel body parts.

A student of NHL Medical College narrates how he gets patted by senior students all the time. "I like pursuing girls but have to deal with guys hitting on me all the time. A resident doctor once tried to get up close inside the operation theatre. It's getting part of hostel life now," he says.

A recent study by BJ Medical College students titled 'Profiling sexual attitude and practices of youth' conducted on 200 students in premier colleges like National Institute of Design (NID), LD Engineering College, among others, revealed that 7% conceded they were bisexuals.

Of the respondents, 38% boys and 44% girls said homosexuality was normal. Around 50% conceded their behaviour would not change if they came to know a person was homosexual. Significantly, 75% said homosexuality should be included in formal sexual education.

For some, it gets serious. A student leader told TOI that recently a girl from a reputed university in Ahmedabad consumed poison after she was forced to live away from her same-sex partner in her hostel room.

Apparently, her parents had brought about the separation. "Students in hostels are more likely to accept a different sexual orientation these days even if society doesn't.

Homosexuality has become more acceptable," agrees Vinay Tomar, Ahmedabad city president, National Students' Union of India.

"The youth are basically getting more experimental. Most of the homosexual encounters in the young have roots in experiments and not in pathological homosexuality," says psychiatrist Hansal Bhachech.
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if homosexuality become's fashion then even heterosexual will get involve in it.

 

[max314]

Guru Nanak did encourage family life, and it's obvious that heterosexual relationships are more condusive to creating a sustainable society.

Nevertheless, it's not a forced imposition. I think that if one made a lifestyle choice, no-one can condemn them for that. If someone feels unable to engage in a heterosexual relationship and can only engage in homosexual relationships, then who can anyone be to judge?

Again, it's all about tolerating peoples' differences, and the Guru Granth Sahib values that one singular humanitarian principle above all else.

 

[max314]

the following is the danger of openly allowing homosexuality

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/411736.cms?headline=It\\\'s~now~cool~to~be~gay~on~Gujarat~campus

AHMEDABAD: Gone are the days when 'bird-watching' was the only obsession on campus hostels. Who needs babes when the young get experimental with people of their own sex?

Playing homosexual games, ragging along gay lines and even chance homosexual encounters by otherwise straight boys and girls have become commonplace in hostels as homosexuality is fast ceasing to be a dirty word. Ask boys in the Gujarat University hostel and they tell you how one of the most popular party games for guys is one where they compare and feel body parts.

A student of NHL Medical College narrates how he gets patted by senior students all the time. "I like pursuing girls but have to deal with guys hitting on me all the time. A resident doctor once tried to get up close inside the operation theatre. It's getting part of hostel life now," he says.

A recent study by BJ Medical College students titled 'Profiling sexual attitude and practices of youth' conducted on 200 students in premier colleges like National Institute of Design (NID), LD Engineering College, among others, revealed that 7% conceded they were bisexuals.

Of the respondents, 38% boys and 44% girls said homosexuality was normal. Around 50% conceded their behaviour would not change if they came to know a person was homosexual. Significantly, 75% said homosexuality should be included in formal sexual education.

For some, it gets serious. A student leader told TOI that recently a girl from a reputed university in Ahmedabad consumed poison after she was forced to live away from her same-sex partner in her hostel room.

Apparently, her parents had brought about the separation. "Students in hostels are more likely to accept a different sexual orientation these days even if society doesn't.

Homosexuality has become more acceptable," agrees Vinay Tomar, Ahmedabad city president, National Students' Union of India.

"The youth are basically getting more experimental. Most of the homosexual encounters in the young have roots in experiments and not in pathological homosexuality," says psychiatrist Hansal Bhachech.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
if homosexuality become's fashion then even heterosexual will get involve in it.

Like any movement, becoming too extreme in something can be highly detremental.

It's quite true that even heterosexual people are being unfairly encouraged to constantly question their sexuality.

If someone is naturally homosexual, then I believe that society should allow for it.

But to physically encourage homosexuality will only result in numbers of otherwise-heterosexual people becoming confused by the publicity into thinking that they too are homosexual.

 

[max314]

Guru tells us to saty off the Lust and that includes one with own wife also.

How can you have kids with your wife if you can't even get it up?

Guru says that lust should be controlled, not vanquished. It should be used, and not that it starts using you instead.

Don't go overboard and engage in marital rape, for God's sake, but having a sexually active lifestyle with your life partner is one of the things in life we're allowed to enjoy. That's why it's there, so long as you keep boundaries.

 

[kds1980]

<<If someone is naturally homosexual, then I believe that society should allow for it.>>

again the question is who will decide whether someone is naturally homosexual or not.there is craze in young generation to follow trend and if in societies like india it become trend then young generation will foolishly follow
it which results in spreading of aids and other stds.our society do provide protection against heterosexual relations like a girl and boy cannot live in hostel room prison cell etc.but no such protection is there for homosexual behaviour.you have to share a room with your own sex.
also bully type of persons will force others to induldge in homosexual activity.
just for fun or to humilate others
this is already happening in india when in ragging new students are sometimes forced to induldge in homosexual activity by their seniors.
so that's why i beleive homosexuality should not be openly allowed .
naturaly homosexuals should do their activity behind closed doors

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Das agree to Bhai Max Ji,

what das meant here is something deeper.What you said over there is not the lust but sex.Guru did not forbade sex with wife.But yet Guru tell us to not to have lust which is out of five vices.

Lust means that thinking self as an entity and wife as an entity and Kam or Lust to get plasure from her.

When we get Anand Karaj,we are given spritual verses.That tells us just that after wedlock,we do not have to forget that groom(God) is for all brides(spirits) and all have to marry with same.So do not go after too muck love after worldly things say wife in this case.

 

[jasi]

we all know what Guru Nanak Dev Ji 's thoughts are about equailty of all genders but here we are talking about one's deeds after your birth when you are grown up . no one is born gay or homosexual.
it is one's deeds. you are free to do any thing but do as a human being what is normal like majority of other your being.


"what you so shall you reap"

you have to follow the right path not what your peers whose brain is configurerated by their peers. top of that no one is stopping you or unaccepting your life style under any democratic governments today then why there is so much publicity to effect other growing young kids. what marriage ? you can not use of marriage word here .marriage ia among women and a man where the instiution were set up reproductions of human being. oh yeh that is verbal thoughts like i am married to this idea etc to some thing you love to do bur not doing sex with man to man .

there are more important things in life which can be contributed more towards other healthy thinkings.

this is not a priority that less than 1% people followed this path to live their private life.it is sickning to go where one is going for a sex (a place made for toilet). so unhygenic which gives a perfect chance to have a HIV.

think positive .do not get in false propoganda. there are more situations in the world to be recognized such as poverty. homosexuality flourishes where there is lots of poverty and frusteration or where there is lots of richness exist.


jaspi

Guru Nanak did encourage family life, and it's obvious that heterosexual relationships are more condusive to creating a sustainable society.

Nevertheless, it's not a forced imposition. I think that if one made a lifestyle choice, no-one can condemn them for that. If someone feels unable to engage in a heterosexual relationship and can only engage in homosexual relationships, then who can anyone be to judge?

Again, it's all about tolerating peoples' differences, and the Guru Granth Sahib values that one singular humanitarian principle above all else.

 

[jasi]

what ever you have mentioed is ok. remeber God never created homosexual but it has been alsway one's choice to lead thier lives. do not bring this topic on this sikh forum. it has nothing to with this issue to discuss which is wrong deed on the first place .

"what you so ,so shall you reaps".

it is all one's deeds. there is no one who is stopping all homosexuals activtities in any democratic society. this behavier of homosexulaity is found mostly in the stages of poverty or rich society , or from one's peers whose brain is already configured. frusteration.

so do what one is free to do.

it is not a new to indulge in sex with opposit sex .frusteration to satisfy one 's ego or escapaing to easy way is not he way to alter normal doings. it had been in the society from the begning now why so much publicized to promote wrong doing.we never cocenterated to redicate the world poverty so we can have a better socity. poverty generate all kinds of abnormal deed among the society. biggest resons of all criminal activties,illletracy,relegion fanatasism ,famins and other problems.

let the majority to continue their life as nature taught them to do the sex where you suppose to do.

 

[max314]

<<If someone is naturally homosexual, then I believe that society should allow for it.>>

again the question is who will decide whether someone is naturally homosexual or not.there is craze in young generation to follow trend and if in societies like india it become trend then young generation will foolishly follow
it which results in spreading of aids and other stds.our society do provide protection against heterosexual relations like a girl and boy cannot live in hostel room prison cell etc.but no such protection is there for homosexual behaviour.you have to share a room with your own sex.
also bully type of persons will force others to induldge in homosexual activity.
just for fun or to humilate others
this is already happening in india when in ragging new students are sometimes forced to induldge in homosexual activity by their seniors.
so that's why i beleive homosexuality should not be openly allowed .
naturaly homosexuals should do their activity behind closed doors

Well, there you go.

I think it's obvious where lines should be drawn.

If a person insists that they are gay and can't help being any other way, then there should be complete acceptance for it. No-one deserves to be outcast just because there's something different about them.

 

[max314]

Gurfateh

Das agree to Bhai Max Ji,

what das meant here is something deeper.What you said over there is not the lust but sex.Guru did not forbade sex with wife.But yet Guru tell us to not to have lust which is out of five vices.

Lust means that thinking self as an entity and wife as an entity and Kam or Lust to get plasure from her.

When we get Anand Karaj,we are given spritual verses.That tells us just that after wedlock,we do not have to forget that groom(God) is for all brides(spirits) and all have to marry with same.So do not go after too muck love after worldly things say wife in this case.

Taken in context, whereby women had little say by societal means, it would seem to me that such verses are more to keep males from raping their new wives on their wedding night and to be...well...gentle.

 

[max314]

we all know what Guru Nanak Dev Ji 's thoughts are about equailty of all genders but here we are talking about one's deeds after your birth when you are grown up . no one is born gay or homosexual.

Unless you have a real authority to support that, I don't think that's a fair statement.

it is one's deeds. you are free to do any thing but do as a human being what is normal like majority of other your being.


"what you so shall you reap"

Naturally. But let's be careful not to confuse or overlap separate issues.

you have to follow the right path not what your peers whose brain is configurerated by their peers. top of that no one is stopping you or unaccepting your life style under any democratic governments today then why there is so much publicity to effect other growing young kids. what marriage ? you can not use of marriage word here .marriage ia among women and a man where the instiution were set up reproductions of human being. oh yeh that is verbal thoughts like i am married to this idea etc to some thing you love to do bur not doing sex with man to man .

there are more important things in life which can be contributed more towards other healthy thinkings.

this is not a priority that less than 1% people followed this path to live their private life.it is sickning to go where one is going for a sex (a place made for toilet). so unhygenic which gives a perfect chance to have a HIV.

think positive .do not get in false propoganda. there are more situations in the world to be recognized such as poverty. homosexuality flourishes where there is lots of poverty and frusteration or where there is lots of richness exist.


jaspi

Homosexuality has been around for thousands of years, and homosexual behaviour is not exclusive to the human race. To say that it's not intended by God is like claiming you have an insight into God's 'thoughts', which would be little short of blasphemy.

Whilst I agree that the mass-popularising of homosexuality is wrong for a number of reasons, I don't agree with suppressing people who decide that a particular choice of lifestyle is most suitable for them to live a satisfying and fulfilling life.

Also, there's nowhere in gurbani that says that having anal sex is in any way wrong.

It's quite important to separate one's opinions on life from gurbani.

Ultimately, no-one should impose their values upon other people. That includes both hetero and homosexuals.

 

[max314]

what ever you have mentioed is ok. remeber God never created homosexual...

See, this is the statement that continues to irk me.

Despite being grossed out by the thought of homosexual activity, just like I'm grossed out by the idea of halal meat or even certain peoples' views on Sikkhism, that doesn't mean that I have an exclusive insight into God's intentions.

As I said in the previous post, this would be blasphemy.

do not bring this topic on this sikh forum. it has nothing to with this issue to discuss which is wrong deed on the first place.

Well, it's "wrong" according to you, and if you don't want to discuss it, you don't have to click on the thread.

The tagline of the site is "Think Discuss Share Learn Evolve". I don't think that an issue as culturally prominent as homosexuality is necessarily beyond any self-proclaimed 'open-minded' discussion forum.

"what you so ,so shall you reaps".

it is all one's deeds. there is no one who is stopping all homosexuals activtities in any democratic society. this behavier of homosexulaity is found mostly in the stages of poverty or rich society , or from one's peers whose brain is already configured. frusteration.

so do what one is free to do.

it is not a new to indulge in sex with opposit sex .frusteration to satisfy one 's ego or escapaing to easy way is not he way to alter normal doings. it had been in the society from the begning now why so much publicized to promote wrong doing.we never cocenterated to redicate the world poverty so we can have a better socity. poverty generate all kinds of abnormal deed among the society. biggest resons of all criminal activties,illletracy,relegion fanatasism ,famins and other problems.

let the majority to continue their life as nature taught them to do the sex where you suppose to do.

Heh...you know, it sounds to me as if you'd pick up a giant jutthi and squash every gay person like a bug if you had the opportunity

Wait...isn't that called 'fascism'...?

 

[CaramelChocolate]

Regarding the topic of forced homosexuality. Don't make me laugh. Society is forced to be straight. Look how many kids are married off in some cultures to the OPPOSITE SEX as a child. Heterosexual people, seem to me, so perverted that they want to ENCOURAGE another person's sexual desire to be the same as their own!
Even living in a country like Britain where things seem liberal homosexuality is not looked upon very well. The most popular insult for children is 'gay' as homosexuality is seen as a negative and bad thing and their is still a process of coming out since everyone assumes you are straight unless you say otherwise. People will ask about your girlfriend if you are a boy and boyfriend if you are a girl unless you specifically say 'I am gay' making you feel abnormal, like an outsider or something beyond society's capacity or intelligence.
No heterosexual has the right to say homosexuality is a choice until they have understood the ins and outs of being a homosexual, which someone like jaspi is not prepared to do.
The media plays into the hands of homophobes like jaspi, lets be honest, most newspaper columists/editors have agendas and prejudices. If a writer has a negative stance on something, do you think s/he will want to represent it positively?
Please remember this is not about the discussion of: the acts of the people who are attracted to the same sex such as permissibility of promiscuity/polygamy. We are discussing attraction to the same sex. If you accept homosexuality the world will not fall apart, you can set moral guidelines as you please but please don't associate homosexuality with promiscuity directly.
Even if there is evidence that the percentage of promiscuous gay people is greater than heterosexuals then heterosexuals are to blame. Once you realise you a homosexual, you realise you ARE something that is outside 'the rules'. Yet you can't change. So a homosexual wonders what rules of society/culture/religion are right since the homosexual one was completely wrong. If religious people and society accepted gay people there would not be such a suicide rate as gay people might feel a little normal rather than a worthless peice of dirt, for something as insignificant as their innate sexual desire.
Let us be realistic, there are sinful people and pious/moral people in every group. Indians may think they have morals, but many have their dirty little secret... I personally don't agree with lying.

 

[CaliforniaSeeker]

As gay and transgendered friends of mine have said, "If this were a voluntary choice, do you think I'd really choose to make myself a target of discrimination, prejudice, and violence?"

I think everybody should be judged by the same standards, whether they're gay, straight, bi, asexual, polyamorous or anything else: Does this person do their best to live an honest, honorable life? Do they live up to their commitments? Are they working to become a better person and make the world a better place?

Aside from that, if everybody involved is a sane, consenting adult, it's not my business what they do in their bedroom, any more than it's their business what I do in mine.

 

[H_Singh]

If someone follows Sikhi to the word, then what does it matter what he/she does in there household. It is not the concern of anyone. Sikhi preaches tolerance, equality and acceptance. Many of us, including myself, may have been brought up on the prejuidices of other cultures, religions or faiths, but not one of us has the right to judge another, until we have attained perfection ourselves. Sikhi scripture does not address homosexuality but it does address equality, tolerance and acceptance, so what do we go with? Societies norms? Cultural norms? Absolutely not, we go by Gurus words the tenants of the Sikh faith.

As for it being lust, I completely disagree, being a homosexual does not mean it is out of lust, it can be genuine love, just like love between a man and a woman. Love between two men, or two woman is not addressed by Sikhi, for someone to manipulate or draw conclusion from the Shri Guru Granth Sahib would be incorrect, and would lead us down the same path as other scriptures e.g. the bible. Where all the meanings are interpreted based on what we "think" they mean, and we can see the end result of that first hand. Does being gay prevent you anymore than a heterosexual person becoming one with God, no I don't think it does, a God of acceptance, accepts all that follow his path. This is my opinion.

 

[paapi_banda]

Whats are your thoughts on Homosexuality and Sikhi?

It could be either way.

for Homosexuality....

1. you wont be judged on your sexuality but your deeds

2. if homosexuality is wrong, why did god create it?


Against it...

1. god made adam and eve for one another, not man for man, or woman for woman.

2. why in the anand karaj does it say man and woman being united with god and not man for man or woman for woman.

your thoughts...

:rofl!!: thanx for making my day...

oye ek gal te das ki admi bacha paida kar sakda:rofl!!: :rofl!!: