Sex, Girlfriend, Am I Allowed?

[Archived_Member1]

Here is a quote from SGGS....Nto sure if it applies 100% to this thread....but....I thought it is worthwhile...

Page 1381 - Shaikh Farid Shloks...

jW kuAwrI qw cwau vIvwhI qW mwmly ]
jaa kuaaree thaa chaao veevaahee thaa maamulae
When she is a virgin, she is full of desire; but when she is married, then her troubles begin.

PrIdw eyho pCoqwau viq kuAwrI n QIAY ]63]
fureedhaa eaeho pushothaao vath kuaaree n theeai
Fareed, she has this one regret, that she cannot be a virgin again. ||63||

i think it's a metaphor.

he's using the virgin to describe the living person, and married to be dead.

so when you're alive, you're full of desire (for maya). but when you're dead, your trouble begin.... because when you were alive you weren't focusing on God but on Maya.

make sense?

 

[BaljeetSingh]

Of course it is a metaphor - And as always - all metaphors are derived from actual life scenarios...

 

[svea00]

Yeah, I´m sure it´s more than just a metaphor.
Being unmarried (and having no sex before marrige) you might just think about the pleasures with that. But once entered marrige you find yourself in a lot of troubles with your spouse and realize that it isn´t all about desire but also duties and problems living with the other. So you might dream about the easy times before.
I think having a boyfriend or a girlfriend under certain circumstance might be the pleasure without the troubles or duties. And that´s why so many go for it.

My own opinion on it. It´s ok to have a gf/bf in the cause of finding out if you could spend your life with this person or not. And this relationship should be based on mutual love, understanding, faith and trust. In this case for me it´s ok to have sex with this person.
I know that it´s a common use to skip into many different relationships just for fun and drob out when the troubly part starts, I don´t agree with that. Relationships as well as marrige shouldn´t deal with this.
I remember a quote, sorry I don´t know by whom, that you´ve become an adult only when having shared a lifetime with your partner and dealt with all these troubles in it.

At the same time, be realistic, some people don´t do well together, and sadly you realize this after about living with the other for maybe half a year. I´m actually quite gratefull for being allowed to "try" marrige for a time before commiting to it for a lifetime. (bad experience)

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

i think it's a metaphor.

he's using the virgin to describe the living person, and married to be dead.

so when you're alive, you're full of desire (for maya). but when you're dead, your trouble begin.... because when you were alive you weren't focusing on God but on Maya.

make sense?

The quote is indeed a metaphor but it has no relation to this thread. One can twist bani to ones desire to justify ones action. Farid ji is not taking about worldly life. The translator has quite evidently sencelationalised the quote using the word "Virgin" rather then the correct word unmarried women. i.e. in this case referring to one who has not accepted the Lord Husband. She (the soul) is anxious for the union without the preparation. Once married she regrets ??????????? All quotes in SGGS are directed towards a spiritual journey. Please pay respect. This is a wrong thread to elaborate the meanings further here.

On the issue of sex, girlfriend etc. One is being mislead under the influence of Maya.

Jasleen Kaur
i think it's a metaphor.

he's using the virgin to describe the living person, and married to be dead.

so when you're alive, you're full of desire (for maya). but when you're dead, your trouble begin.... because when you were alive you weren't focusing on God but on Maya.

make sense?

***PERSONAL COMMENTS DELETED - FINAL WARNING***

ekmusafir_ajnabi

 

[Archived_Member1]

It is quite amazing to note the Mindsets of those that discuss spirituality whilst fully engrossed in Maya.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

sorry to have disturbed the forum with my lowly useless thought, oh great enlightened one.

:hmm:

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

sorry to have disturbed the forum with my lowly useless thought, oh great enlightened one.

:hmm:

Is it your idea of the forum just to let out what is in your mind or to learn as a sikh. Not a very good response coming from a Sikh. You should realise first that you are using the Bani of a great saint in a very low form. Have respect and best ask someone if you have doubt rather than making statements. It will be you who is at a loss than myself. You can keep walking at a tangent if that is what you desire.

I have no problem. Incidently you are not the only one with this problem.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

 

[Archived_Member1]

Is it your idea of the forum just to let out what is in your mind or to learn as a sikh. Not a very good response coming from a Sikh. You should realise first that you are using the Bani of a great saint in a very low form. Have respect and best ask someone if you have doubt rather than making statements. It will be you who is at a loss than myself. You can keep walking at a tangent if that is what you desire.

I have no problem. Incidently you are not the only one with this problem.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

i apologize for my insolence.

i understand that i am a very low beginner and that my thoughts are worth nothing. i do ask for help when i have doubt, which is constantly. i never meant to use any bani in "low form".

please explain to me what you found to be "low form" or disrespectful in my poor analysis of the metaphor so that i may better understand my mistake.

thank you.

 

[spnadmin]

Please Debate the Issue, Not the Person..... is hard to do. I myself have problems following this rule and am replying out of care and concern.

Here are more lines, surrounding the metaphor of the virgin. Each line contains a related metaphor. A parallel thought. All the metaphors reflect, enhance the meaning of this one When she is a virgin, she is full of desire; but when she is married, then her troubles begin.The way out of the predicaments that are contained here -- found in the last 3 lines.

Forgive me for any mistake, and for any weaknesses in the translation.

ਗੁਨਹੀ ਭਰਿਆ ਮੈ ਫਿਰਾ ਲੋਕੁ ਕਹੈ ਦਰਵੇਸੁ ॥੬੧॥
gunehee bhariaa mai firaa lok kehai dharavaes ||61||
I wander around full of sins, and yet people call me a dervish - a holy man. ||61||

ਤਤੀ ਤੋਇ ਨ ਪਲਵੈ ਜੇ ਜਲਿ ਟੁਬੀ ਦੇਇ ॥
thathee thoe n palavai jae jal ttubee dhaee ||
The crop which is burnt will not bloom, even if it is soaked in water.


ਫਰੀਦਾ ਜੋ ਡੋਹਾਗਣਿ ਰਬ ਦੀ ਝੂਰੇਦੀ ਝੂਰੇਇ ॥੬੨॥
fareedhaa jo ddohaagan rab dhee jhooraedhee jhooraee ||62||
Fareed, she who is forsaken by her Husband Lord, grieves and laments. ||62||


ਜਾਂ ਕੁਆਰੀ ਤਾ ਚਾਉ ਵੀਵਾਹੀ ਤਾਂ ਮਾਮਲੇ ॥
jaan kuaaree thaa chaao veevaahee thaan maamalae ||
When she is a virgin, she is full of desire; but when she is married, then her troubles begin.


ਫਰੀਦਾ ਏਹੋ ਪਛੋਤਾਉ ਵਤਿ ਕੁਆਰੀ ਨ ਥੀਐ ॥੬੩॥
fareedhaa eaeho pashhothaao vath kuaaree n thheeai ||63||
Fareed, she has this one regret, that she cannot be a virgin again. ||63||


ਕਲਰ ਕੇਰੀ ਛਪੜੀ ਆਇ ਉਲਥੇ ਹੰਝ ॥
kalar kaeree shhaparree aae oulathhae hanjh ||
The swans have landed in a small pond of salt water.


ਚਿੰਜੂ ਬੋੜਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਨਾ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਉਡਣ ਸੰਦੀ ਡੰਝ ॥੬੪॥
chinjoo borranih naa peevehi ouddan sandhee ddanjh ||64||
They dip in their bills, but do not drink; they fly away, still thirsty. ||64||


ਹੰਸੁ ਉਡਰਿ ਕੋਧ੍ਰੈ ਪਇਆ ਲੋਕੁ ਵਿਡਾਰਣਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
hans ouddar kodhhrai paeiaa lok viddaaran jaae ||
The swans fly away, and land in the fields of grain. The people go to chase them away.


ਗਹਿਲਾ ਲੋਕੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਦਾ ਹੰਸੁ ਨ ਕੋਧ੍ਰਾ ਖਾਇ ॥੬੫॥
gehilaa lok n jaanadhaa hans n kodhhraa khaae ||65||
The thoughtless people do not know, that the swans do not eat the grain. ||65||


ਚਲਿ ਚਲਿ ਗਈਆਂ ਪੰਖੀਆਂ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਵਸਾਏ ਤਲ ॥
chal chal geeaaan pankheeaaan jinhee vasaaeae thal ||
The birds which lived in the pools have flown away and left.


ਫਰੀਦਾ ਸਰੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਭੀ ਚਲਸੀ ਥਕੇ ਕਵਲ ਇਕਲ ॥੬੬॥
fareedhaa sar bhariaa bhee chalasee thhakae kaval eikal ||66||
Fareed, the overflowing pool shall also pass away, and only the lotus flowers shall remain. ||66||


ਫਰੀਦਾ ਇਟ ਸਿਰਾਣੇ ਭੁਇ ਸਵਣੁ ਕੀੜਾ ਲੜਿਓ ਮਾਸਿ ॥
fareedhaa eitt siraanae bhue savan keerraa larriou maas ||
Fareed, a stone will be your pillow, and the earth will be your bed. The worms shall eat into your flesh.

ਕੇਤੜਿਆ ਜੁਗ ਵਾਪਰੇ ਇਕਤੁ ਪਇਆ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੬੭॥
kaetharriaa jug vaaparae eikath paeiaa paas ||67||
Countless ages will pass, and you will still be lying on one side. ||67||


ਫਰੀਦਾ ਭੰਨੀ ਘੜੀ ਸਵੰਨਵੀ ਟੁਟੀ ਨਾਗਰ ਲਜੁ ॥
fareedhaa bhannee gharree savannavee ttuttee naagar laj ||
Fareed, your beautiful body shall break apart, and the subtle thread of the breath shall be snapped.


ਅਜਰਾਈਲੁ ਫਰੇਸਤਾ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਨਾਠੀ ਅਜੁ ॥੬੮॥
ajaraaeel faraesathaa kai ghar naathee aj ||68||
In which house will the Messenger of Death be a guest today? ||68||


ਫਰੀਦਾ ਭੰਨੀ ਘੜੀ ਸਵੰਨਵੀ ਟੂਟੀ ਨਾਗਰ ਲਜੁ ॥
fareedhaa bhannee gharree savannavee ttoottee naagar laj ||
Fareed, your beautiful body shall break apart, and the subtle thread of the breath shall be snapped.


ਜੋ ਸਜਣ ਭੁਇ ਭਾਰੁ ਥੇ ਸੇ ਕਿਉ ਆਵਹਿ ਅਜੁ ॥੬੯॥
jo sajan bhue bhaar thhae sae kio aavehi aj ||69||
Those friends who were a burden on the earth - how can they come today? ||69||


ਫਰੀਦਾ ਬੇ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ਕੁਤਿਆ ਏਹ ਨ ਭਲੀ ਰੀਤਿ ॥
fareedhaa bae nivaajaa kuthiaa eaeh n bhalee reeth ||
Fareed: O faithless dog, this is not a good way of life.


ਕਬਹੀ ਚਲਿ ਨ ਆਇਆ ਪੰਜੇ ਵਖਤ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥੭੦॥
kabehee chal n aaeiaa panjae vakhath maseeth ||70||
You never come to the mosque for your five daily prayers. ||70||

ਉਠੁ ਫਰੀਦਾ ਉਜੂ ਸਾਜਿ ਸੁਬਹ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਿ ॥
outh fareedhaa oujoo saaj subeh nivaaj gujaar ||
Rise up, Fareed, and cleanse yourself; chant your morning prayer.


ਜੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਸਾਂਈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਪਿ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥੭੧॥
jo sir saanee naa nivai so sir kap outhaar ||71||
The head which does not bow to the Lord - chop off and remove that head. ||71||


ਜੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਸਾਈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਕੀਜੈ ਕਾਂਇ ॥
jo sir saaee naa nivai so sir keejai kaane ||
That head which does not bow to the Lord - what is to be done with that head?


ਕੁੰਨੇ ਹੇਠਿ ਜਲਾਈਐ ਬਾਲਣ ਸੰਦੈ ਥਾਇ ॥੭੨॥
kunnae haeth jalaaeeai baalan sandhai thhaae ||72||
Put it in the fireplace, instead of firewood. ||72||

 

[Archived_Member1]

this is why i thought of the analogy of the virgin being the living being attached to maya and the married being the dead, regretting that they squandered their life.

i'm still waiting to understand how my poor explanation was so insulting.

i apologize for responding to personal attacks, it's my fatal flaw.

 

[spnadmin]

The moderators note was intended for everyone as a gentle warning because I could sense that the barometer was falling and a storm watch in my future. So this was not a reprimand and please forgive me if I seemed harsh. It was not meant that way.

Speaking as a mod, Jasleen ji, I did not see anything insulting in your explanation. One may have thought the Gurus were in some way insulted. However they have not mentioned it.

Please forgive me.

 

[Archived_Member1]

MODS: please delete, duplicate post due to computer glitch.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Speaking as a mod, Jasleen ji, I did not see anything insulting in your explanation. One may have thought the Gurus were in some way insulted. However they have not mentioned it.

here is where the insult was implied:

You should realise first that you are using the Bani of a great saint in a very low form. Have respect

i simply want to understand what the low form is so that i won't make the same mistake again.

 

[spnadmin]

jasleen ji

OK. But I would not spend too much energy on it. Whatever you see fit as a personal change, then be comfortable.

 

[Randip Singh]

this is why i thought of the analogy of the virgin being the living being attached to maya and the married being the dead, regretting that they squandered their life.

i'm still waiting to understand how my poor explanation was so insulting.

i apologize for responding to personal attacks, it's my fatal flaw.

You have said and done nothing wrong.

My take on this entire Ang is this.

I want a bigger house, so much, that it "desire" it day and night. I want that big house so badly. One day I buy that big house, and a month later I get my first mortage payment. Thats when my troubles begin.:u):

 

[Archived_Member4]

Having a girlfriend just because you like the way she looks “hot” is wrong. You are judging the her on her looks and wanting her to fulfill your sexually desire. This is not true love between two people. If both of you connect on an intellectual level and don’t care about looks and the whole bit of maya sure have a girlfriend. But with this comes responsibility as for the two not to indulge into sex to satisfy both of your desire for lust, which clouds your mind and distracts you from the main person of life; achieving an intuitive understand of oneself and achieving enlightenment. Also between married couples, if they are having sex just for lust then they also are committing a sin. Sex is used for one purpose and that is having a child. Then there is the whole love bit of it, if the two people are in love and they have sex it’s not a sin for they are expressing there love for each other. This is wrong if you love your other half you would respect your other half by not getting your partner to commit a sin because the one wanting to have sex wants to fulfill there desire of lust. If both of you decide mutually to have sex then mutually both of you are destroying your path to enlightenment and falling into the trap of lust.

 

[spnadmin]

Singh ji

You said,

"Also between married couples, if they are having sex just for lust then they also are committing a sin. Sex is used for one purpose and that is having a child."

Where in Gurbani does it say this?

 

[Archived_Member4]

I cannot point you to the exact spot where it says this in gurbani. But let’s just ponder over the definition of lust. Lust is when one as a desire to gratify the senses. Meaning to satisfy a need one is clouding his/her mind with a perception that creates an illusion. This illusion that one creates when having sex disrupts the mind from staying in that calm and fully aware state of mind. Therefore the person is not aware of what is going around him/her and loses the sense of reality and creates an image(fantasy).

 

[spnadmin]

Singh ji

It is important that you find one or more lines from Gurbani to back up your statement. Otherwise we are talking about your interpretation of the whole of Gurbani in a very general way. If you can't provide details, then your interpretation is as good as the interpretation of anyone else.

Does it say anything at all about sex between a husband and wife in the rehat Maryada? Anything at all that says sex is only for having children? Why is birth control permitted in Sikhism?

Hmmm?

 

[Archived_Member4]

Aad0002

I understand where you’re getting at but look at the big picture when the SGPC wrote the Rehat Maryada they did it to there best knowledge on what the Guru is saying. In other words it was their interpretation of what the Sri Guru Granth Sahib says on issues. When one reads Gurbani for the first time they get the meaning for one thing and not all. Once a person starts reading and mediates at a higher vibration even if they are simply repeating Waheguru they pick up on amazing things that some people cannot understand. With that said I am not saying the Rehat Maryada is wrong but we should look toward the Sri Guru Granth Sahib to get a deeper understanding on what the Guru is saying to us. Recently I have been listening and reading Japji Sahib and I understand more and more every day when I do. So when a person makes a comment on this page or any other time, they are trying to interpret what the Guru is saying to the best of their knowledge and sometimes it’s said directly that anyone can understand. Some might jump out and attack me saying so you’re saying that when one person reads Gurbani and another person does they get a different meaning? No that is not what I am saying, I am saying some people are more attained and vibrating at a higher frequency than others and they get the deeper meaning of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. And this is one of the reasons why everyone is advised to read Gurbani themselves.

 

[spnadmin]

Singh ji

I humbly ask you to answer this question. Where does it say in Gurbani

"Also between married couples, if they are having sex just for lust then they also are committing a sin. Sex is used for one purpose and that is having a child."

You say that a person has to vibrate at the right frequency to hear this message from Guruji. What frequency is that? And why should I be convinced that you are vibrating at the right frequency to hear Guruji's truth?

To be honest, this is how many, not all, extremely pious Christians talk -- only they are tuned into a message that only they can hear. All others must accept their authority on the subject of sex and all other subjects.