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Sabd Guru On Sword (ਖੜਗੁ/ਖੰਡਾ)

Dear Singh Ji,
I have no interest in this dialogue and subject.

I was asking for a more indepth description from you so assumptions are not made and a big thing get made out of it. If you don't want to go on with it then thats fine with me.

There is no Gurdwara of Sikhs where there has not been a fight or legal consequences.

Majority of it started because of the chairs and tables in the langar hall. Some just can't obey to edicts. Too much ego.

I stay out of these but these facts you get in to the web and find out.
Since you were specifically talking about Gurdwara fights then it's only right to ask, which one's you are refering. You don't want to say so that's fine.

My interest is in spirituality not material physical objects.

Same here!

The materialistic mind degrades the spiritual to the carnal by wearing material symbols of any kind. This leads to dragging the higher nature to the lower, instead of being purified and lifted up by the spiritual wisdom.

Since you are speaking of the materialistic mind then this would not include the 5 Kakkars or the two swords Guru HarGobind Singh Sahib ji wore; Symbolizing Miri and Piri that will degrade the spirituality in a person.
 

vsgrewal48895

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Dear Singh Ji,

My postings are explicit and clear.

I am not interested in debating material things. My interest is spirituality. I can get every thing out of AGGS as I need.

Thanks for your clarifications and interaction.

Cordially,

Virinder
 

vsgrewal48895

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Dear Singh Ji,

Could you find out for me that why the Sabd of Guru Arjan in Raag Ramkali is of two lines only and does not end in the name of Nanak?

ਰਣ ਝੁੰਝਨੜਾ ਗਾਉ ਸਖੀ ਹਰਿ ਏਕੁ ਧਿਆਵਹੁ ॥ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਤੁਮ ਸੇਵਿ ਸਖੀ ਮਨਿ ਚਿੰਦਿਅੜਾ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਵਹੁ ॥

Raṇ jẖunjẖnaṛā gā­o sakẖī har ėk ḏẖi­āvahu. Saṯgur ṯum sėv sakẖī man cẖinḏi­aṛā fal pāvhu.

Sing the melodious harmonies, O my companions, and meditate on the One Lord. Serve your True Guru, O my companions, and you shall obtain the fruits of your mind's desires. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 927

Cordially,

Virinder
 

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Well I know that shabad is the shortest one in the Guru Granth. Also there was an article about this in the past year in World Sikh News. But the article did not address the reason why Nanak was not included at the end of the Shabad. Thanks Virinder for bringing this up.
 

spnadmin

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The article I was thinking of



The Sikh HAIKU
One Line Poem in Guru Granth Sahib Ji
Nanak Singh Nishter

Activist-academic and poet, Nanak Singh ‘Nishter’ presents a unique form of poetry in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, a literary gem hitherto less explored. The increasing popularity of this erudite mode of communication should inspire lay Sikhs and scholars alike to spend more time to rediscover their roots. Seeped in devotion, ‘Nishter’ –as the name suggests –presents an incisive account of this tradition of Japanese origin. The author also offers a simple and practical plan for every Sikh to follow. WSN will celebrate the 300 years of Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib by providing similar insight to various aspects of Shabad Guru.

A Japanese poet introduced “One-line poetry” to the modern world at the end of the nineteenth century. Named as Haiku, this type of poetry denotes a new and self-contained style of short poetry. It was developed in Japan some 400 years ago. In recent times, various poetic movements have also deliberately produced one-line poems. In the early part of the twentieth century, a French poet wrote one-line poetry. It was followed by English poets in England and United States. Currently, it is quiet popular in English literature.


Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which was compiled between 1599 and 1604, also contains one-line poetry. Readers and scholars alike are not aware of this most precious literary heritage of India, which was composed much before people of the world could imagine about it. Unfortunately, there is no literature or record in libraries, archives or museums to substantiate our claim. There is no writing on this pattern of poetry even in the history of Hindi, Punjabi or any other literature.


Guru Granth Sahib Ji is much more than a spiritual guide and world teacher for honest living, uniting people and upholding dignity of all castes, creed and gender. It is also a matchless treasure for protection of Indian civilization, classical ragas, reference to historical events, inspiration for sovereignty for individuals, religions and the country.



Guru Granth Sahib Ji is an un-imaginary literary collection which can serve to be the source of guidance and inspiration for the dead souls of entire humanity and preparing them to meet the multifarious challenges of life for generations to come.



The Bani (hymns) of Bhagats in Guru Granth Sahib Ji in Raag Sarang starts from page1251. It contains two shabads of Bhagat Kabir Ji, three shabads of Bhagat Namdev Ji and one shabad of Bhagat Parmanand Ji. The total number of shabads at the last is given as 6. Afterwards there is only one line:
Cwf mn hir ibmuKn ko sMg
Chaad mun Har bemukhan ko sung.

It means, “O ‘my mind, get rid of the company of non-believers of God.”


No heading is given to it nor is any number given after this line. This one line contains the complete text of a teaching. In no way can this one line can be described as a missing line from another poem. This is a complete poem in itself and is in concurrence with the meters of the classical Raag Sarang. This style of poetry is called One-Line Poetry, which has disappeared from Indian soil. It is gaining popularity throughout the world and has attained a significant position in English poetry. Regrettably, various translators of Gurbani have not done justice to this unique concept. Almost all of them have described it as one line of a shabad, but hardly has anyone described it as a shabad of one line. The prime reason is that this art of poetry has vanished from this land and nobody is aware of it.



After this one line, the shabad is inscribed with the heading of “mhlw 5 sUrdws” i.e., “Shabad of Guru Arjan Sahib Ji with Surdas”, which has been placed as an explanation with reference to this shabad of Bhagat Surdas Ji. In this shabad, Guru Sahib has suggested the ways and means to get rid of the company of non-believers. After this, the total number of Shabads is given as 8. This clearly indicates that the one line of Bhagat Surdas Ji has been taken as a complete shabad. That is why the total number of shabads is given as 8 to the shabad after this one line shabad. After this shabad there is one shabad of Bhagat Kabir Ji and the total number shabad is given as 9, which ends the shabad of Raag Saarang chapter.



Apart from this there is a two-line shabad of Guru Arjan Sahib Ji on page 927 with the heading “Raag Ram Kali Mohalla Punjwan”. This shabad also delivers complete meaning of the shabad, in just two lines and is complete in the meters of the classical Raag Ramkali.



rwgu rwmklI mhlw 5 ]
rxJuMJnVw gwau sKI hir eyku iDAwvhu ]
siqguru qum syiv sKI min icMidAVw Plu pwvhu ]


Raag Ramkali Mohalla V


Runjhunjhunda gavo sakhi Har ek dhyiyavaho.
Satguru tum sev sakhi mun chindiyada phal pavaho.


It means, “O ‘friends, sing the melodious songs praising the Absolute One God. O ’friends, by reflecting upon Satguru (God), the desires will be fulfilled.”



Why are we not aware of these facts? How many of us know what is Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and why was Guruship conferred on it? In recent years we have formed committees of Satkar (respect), resulting in not allowing the convenient handing over of Guru Granth Sahib Ji to persons desirous of having Parkash in private chapels in their homes. Some babas and sants are busy collecting huge sums of money for construction of “Angitha Sahib”. They are keener on collecting bodies of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and cremating them at several places. According to the 2001 Census, 39.45% of the Sikhs are totally illiterate and maximum illiteracy is in Panjab. A large number of people in Panjab do not know how to read or write any language! Out of those who know how to read, how many of read Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a question each Sikh should ask oneself.



In the year 1999, we celebrated the “Khalsa Tercentenary” at Takht Keshgarh Sahib and conferred the title of “Nishan-i-Khalsa” to Khuswant Singh. In one of his well-read columns, which appeared in leading newspapers of the country in June 2004, I was astonished to read his remark, “Having spent the best part of my life working on Sikh history and translating selected passages of Gurbani, I felt I owed it to myself to read the Granth Sahib from cover to cover”. In the least, he was honest.



If this is the position of the ninety year old “Nishan-i-Khalsa” title holder, what about the ordinary Sikh? We do not read Guru Granth Sahib Ji ourselves, nor do we allow others to have easy access to its content. It is the need of the hour for every Sikh to think over this issue, do soul-searching and devise novel means to popularize the contents of our Guru Sahib, instead of converting it into an icon of worship, which is plainly antithetical to the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which repeatedly cautions Sikhs and everyone else, not to worship any object, except the One Formless God.



Sikhism is the latest of all the religions. Bearing in mind the shortcomings of the existing religions, it was modeled to meet the worldly and spiritual challenges of coming generations. It is designed on the basis of the experience and genius of ten Guru Sahibs, over their life-span of 239 years. Guruship was conferred on Guru Granth Sahib Ji to teach and Sikhs were asked to constantly learn from it. It is a compilation and collection of the teachings of six Gurus and thirty other pious souls over a period of five hundred years from Hazrat Baba Sheikh Farid Ji (1175-1265) to Guru Teg Bahadar Ji (1621-1675). It is a unique theological compendium in multiple languages spoken in the Indian sub-continent.



Rituals and rites are not religion in Sikhism, Shabad (knowledge) and its implementation is its true essence. Every learned Sikh should consider it his earnest duty to know the philosophy, ideology and scriptures of his privileged faith. Every Sikh should read and recite the entire Guru Granth Sahib Ji at least once in his lifetime if possible repeatedly, before their relatives arrange the Bhog of the Path for the peace of his soul. This will bring about immense positive change in one’s life. The last Path (recitation) arranged by relatives at the time of departure of the soul from this world may not alter one’s fate.



The relationship of the Guru and Sikh is that of teacher and student. Without learning from our Guru and without following the relationship, can we claim to be a Sikh? Those of us, who cannot read Gurbani in Gurmukhi script, should resolve to learn it. In consonance with the teachings of our Gurus, we should teach atleast one Sikh, either from our family, neighbourhood or even a stranger, to read and understand Gurbani. Let us pledge, “Each One–Teach One” Gurbani in Gurmukhi Script. This will make you proud of your faith and continue a chain of learning for generations to come.



Nanak%20Singh%20Nishter.JPG
A regular columnist for World Sikh News,
Nanak Singh “Nishter” is a Hyderabad based orator, writer and Urdu poet. He is an activist-academician making immense contribution to the social and cultural welfare of Sikh society. He has presented papers at national and international seminars on Sikhism and social problems. He is director of International Sikh Centre for Interfaith Relations. He may be contacted at nanaknishter@gmail.com
 

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I would like to detect an absence of the sarcasm I am detecting in your posts Singh ji. You have backed off from the frontal assault and into something less overt. aad0002
 

vsgrewal48895

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Dear Tony Ji,

The Sikh scholars have a fear of their job or being excummunicated from the faith by SGPC-so they get scared in coldly disssecting the questions being raised.

Two years ago I visited a friend in Halifax, England where he requested me to speak. There I met a Giani Ji who wrote me the whole poem of Bhagat Surdas;

Cwf mn hir ibmuKn ko sMg
Chaad mun Har bemukhan ko sung.


It means, “O ‘my mind, get rid of the company of non-believers of God.”

I just can't put my hands on it. Guru Arjan took only that line and responds to it. It is not one line as a complete poem of his.

The riddle I posted was delt by Professor Pashara Singh, being a friend of mine did not coldlt dissect it;

GURU ARJAN'S RAMAKALI HYMN (Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 927)

Dr. Pashaura Singh

One of the main issues that have drawn scholarly attention in Kartarpur-Banno debate is related to a hymn by Guru Arjan in Ramkali mode. A single couplet stands recorded in the version of the Adi Granth after chhant 4, before Guru Composition on the six seasons (ਰੁਤੀ) of the Indian calendar. 1n order to address the incomplete nature of this hymn, W.H. McLeod argues that there should apparently be a complete hymn in section assigned to the longer chhant compositions. The organization of hymns in this section indicates that the couplet must be either the first two lines of a chhant, or a Sloke introducing a chhanD. The academic issue raised by McLeod drew a great many polemic responses from Sikh scholars, which generated more heat than light on the Kartarpur-Banno debate.124
It is important to note that only two lines of this hymn are to note that two lines of this hymn are to be found in the manuscripts of both the Kartarpur and the Lahore traditions.125 Even in the Kanpur manuscript (1642), which claimed to be the first copy of the Adi Bir prepared by Bhai Banno (and hence popularly known as Banno Bir), the additional twenty two lines of the hymn were added later in a smaller hand.126

One can argue that the scribe had originally written a single couplet since the remainder of the hymn was not available at that time. When ¬additional portion became available, he completed the hymn in Banno version of the Adi Granth. This explanation may be supported by the scribal practice of writing the opening verse first completing the text later. But this simple explanation does not solve the textual puzzle. I shall argue that the completion of this hymn page 115 was intentionally done at a time when the volume was converted into the Banno text.

In order to understand the problem of the Banno recension, we must examine Guru Arjan's Ramkali hymn in its original context. In folio 703/1 of the Kartarpur' manuscript the two lines read as follows:
Raga Ramkali Mahala 5

ਰਣ ਝੁੰਝਨੜਾ ਗਾਉ ਸਖੀ ਹਰਿ ਏਕੁ ਧਿਆਵਹੁ ॥ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਤੁਮ ਸੇਵਿ ਸਖੀ ਮਨਿ ਚਿੰਦਿਅੜਾ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਵਹੁ ॥

Raṇ jẖunjẖnaṛā gā­o sakẖī har ėk ḏẖi­āvahu. Saṯgur ṯum sėv sakẖī man cẖinḏi­aṛā fal pāvhu.

Sing the melodious harmonies, O my companions, and meditate on the One Lord. Serve your True Guru, O my companions, and you shall obtain the fruits of your mind's desires.

Sing the trilling tunes in the [dance]-field, my sister-friends, by meditating on the one lord. By serving the true Guru, my sister-friends, accomplish your heart's desires.

The opening words, ran jẖunjẖnaṛā (trilling tunes [sung in the dance]-field), indicate a wedding scene at which Punjabi girls were accustomed to gather together in a circle to sing wedding songs. Guru Arjan may have uttered these aphoristic sayings on the happy occasion of a marriage, intending that these be developed into a complete hymn later. As the opportunity for its completion never came, only two lines, followed by a blank space, stand recorded in the Kartarpur manuscript. Because there is no mention of this hymn in the index of this volume, and because the entry of the couplet (though made by the same scribe) was done with a different pen, we may conclude that the couplet was introduced some time after the compilation of the Adi Granth in 1604 and before Guru Arjan's death in 1606. This is also confirmed by the fact that this couplet (or complete hymn) is not to be found in an earlier Sikh scriptural tradition, popularly known as MS 1245 preserved at the Guru Nanak Dev University library. 127.

The complete hymn, along with the additional lines, is to be found in the Banno version of the Adi Granth. It reads as follows:
Page 116,

The lord Says Nanak, the journey [of life] has borne fruit through contemplation of the person of the true Guru. (1) By collecting the nectar like food the whole family was called [into the Guru's presence) - Let immortal divine Name be distributed (ਵੰਡਿਆਹੁ) to all so that every one is completely satisfied. The true Guru made the distribution [of the divine name] to everyone while sitting [on the throne] and all were blessed with the gift of love. Everyone received a share (ਵੰਡਿ) according to his destiny, and no one went empty-handed [from the house of the Guru]. The whole Sikh Sangat gathered together [in the Guru's presence] and each person was absorbed in great joy. Says Nanak, 'by seeking the lord's protection I have attained all comforts: (2) all the rites (riti) were performed by meditating deeply on the lord. The tonsure ceremony (bhaddanu unet) was conducted by repeating the divine knowledge of the Guru. Repeating the Guru’s knowledge provided all comforts, and thus the boy was sent to school. The child received a perfect education by obeying the lord in his heart. All were feasted (Uevanavaru) lavishly at the time of the name-giving ceremony [of the child], and no one went away empty-handed. Nanak the humble servant of God pleads: 'My lord is [my] friend at death (3). The saintly people who gathered together [in the Guru's presence] sum that the boy should now be betrothed (mangeva) by good fortune. Those of rectitude and wisdom were found as parents of the bride. Let the gift of Amrit (divine name) be distributed among all. The mystical state of union with the immortal name was attained when the Guru established the divine knowledge (in the man) and removed all kinds of suffering. The auspicious moment, which was written [by destiny] from the very beginning.. (And the marriage was affirmed by the parents of the bride. The lord arranged the marriage-party in such a way that all kinds of sages, devotees and godly men participated in it. Says Nanak, the task of [marriage] was accomplished and the unstruck music sounded forth. (4) 128

Evidently, the hymn describes the rituals in the life-cycle of individual in Punjabi society in the seventeenth century which included the birth of a male child, the name-giving ceremony, and the puberty rite, the first admission in a school, the betrothal rite and the marriage ceremony. A further symbolic meaning gets attached to these rituals since they are used as occasions for the distribution of the gift of Amrit (the divine name) among the devotees of the Guru.
The real issue, however, is related to the authorship of the Banno hymn. Did Guru Arjan compose the Ramkali hymn? If he did do so, who else could have been responsible for completing hymn, and why? To find answers to these questions, we must examine117 the poetic style of this hymn and other linguistic features with reference to other works of Guru Arjan. This method of enquiry reveals the following significant points.

The fourth line in the first stanza (sat guru sachai bheji dia char jivan vaddu pu_nnia, the true Guru has sent the long-lived child to enjoy great fortune) alludes to the opening lines of Guru Arjan's hymn in Asa raga, which he composed to celebrate the birth of his only child, Har Gobind, the sixth Guru: The true Guru has sent the child. The long lived child has been born by destiny (sat guru sachai dia bheji// chir jivan upajia sanjogi).129 This allusion has been largely responsible for the assumption that the Banno hymn concerns the life-cycle rituals relating to Guru HarGobind's early life. For instance, G.B. Singh's manuscript note on the copy of a Banno recension in the India Office Library reads: 'the hymn (chhant) about the early life of the sixth Guru is given complete[ly] (24 lines); and not only The first two lines. 130 It is important to note, however, that apart from this indirect association, there is no explicit reference to the sixth Guru in the text itself. Rather, the author of the Banno hymn employs the metaphor of a unique son (anup balak) as a poetic convention to describe the life-cycle rituals of Punjabi society in general. 131
Secondly, there are certain linguistic expressions in the hymn which cannot be the work of Guru Arjan. For instance, for him to have used the phrase satgur bahi kai vand kini (the true Guru made the distribution while sitting) for he is totally alien to the humble nature of Guru Arjan.132 He never directly refers to himself as the true Guru in his compositions. The hymn was definitely composed by a scribe who was highly motivated by the idea of completing the incomplete text in the name of the Guru. A recent example of a somewhat similar sort may be seen in Jodh Singh's addition of his own interpretation to his description of the Kartarpur Bir to solve the textual problem of this hymn. His note on the description of folio 703/1 reads as follows:

118 Raga Ramkali Mahala 5 Salok
ran jhunjjhanara gau sakhi hari ekdhiavahu// satgur turn sev salmi: chindiara phalu pavahu//l//133

The word Sloke in the title and the numeral 1 at the end of the couplet do not occur in the original text of the Kartarpur volume. This is an example of making an incomplete text look like a complete text. Further, there are other examples in the Adi Granth where gurus employ single-line aphoristic sayings instead of Slokes. These single lines may be seen in the section assigned to Gurus' shaloks, surplus to the vars. 134

Thirdly, the most significant point is that Guru Arjan never employed such words as vand (distribution) or vandiahu (distribute!) anywhere in his compositions in the Adi Granth. These words did not form part of his usual lexicon. This fact alone makes improbable his authorship of the additional material of the hymn. Similarly, other words such as riti (rites), bhaddanu unetu (the tonsure rite), jevanavaru (the ritual feast associated with the sacred thread ceremony), namukaran (the name-giving ceremony) and mangeva ('the betrothal rite') only appear in the Banno version the Adi Granth in this disputed hymn. 136 Thus they were intentionally employed to give legitimacy to Brahmincal rituals in Sikh society, which were otherwise strongly repudiated by the Sikh Gurus, particularly by Guru Arjan himself. On a number of occasions Guru Nanak criticized the sacred thread (Uaneu), and other rituals associated with death (like pind, patal, kina, and diva) .137 Guru Arjan referred to the celebration of Guru Hargobind's birth by the sangat in form of the singing of gurbani, particularly the Ramakali Anandu of Page119, Guru Amar Das (gurbani sakhi anandu gavai).138 evidently this later tradition was the one in vogue among Sikhs at that time.

Fourthly, it is the fifth Guru who, like Guru Nanak, criticizes both Hindu and Muslim beliefs, practices and texts. In 0ne of his comments on Kabir's hymns, he explicitly says: 'We are neither Hindus, nor Musalman”. He further states that he has settled the difference between Hindu and Muslim (as Kabir did), not by working out some kind of synthesis of the two, nor by keeping the observances of both, such as fasts, pilgrimage, prayers and worship, but by cultivating the remembrance of Akal Purkh within the heart. Although there is no direct reference to life-cycle rituals as such, it is implied in the general category of Hindu practices. 140 One can then raise the question as to how Guru Arjan could have been the author of such a hymn, which sanctifies Hindu rituals, when he himself was a strong critic of them. It is much more likely that the real the author of the extra material in the Ramkali hymn was a person who was under a strong Brahmincal influence. In this context Piar Singh has suggested that either a Bhatt (bard) or a Brahmin family priest) composed this hymn on the occasion of the marriage to receive jajamani (gift or stipend) from his parents. This hymn, he argues, became current under the signatures of Nanak and was then incorporated into the Banno version of Adi Granth. Gurinder Mann, on the other hand, unconvincingly uses the argument of signatures to prove Guru Arjan’s authorship of this hymn. 142 Two signatures binvanti nanak (Nanak begs) and the janu kahai nanak (Nanak the servant says) that appear in this hymn, also appear in certain hymns of Guru Arjan. But this sole convention cannot be used to attribute the hymn to the fifth Guru. It seems likely that anybody (a pundit or a Bhatt) could have picked up such expressions and composed the hymn in the name of Guru Arjan.

Fifthly, the poetic style of the hymn is flattering and plodding, unlike what we encounter in the authentic Bani of Guru Arjan. In the first two lines following the original couplet, for instance, one Page 120 can easily sense how the author is at pains to create a tortured rhyme Uammia/punnia), and similar is the case with the last two lines of the hymn (sura/tUra). The use of the clumsy phrase charjivan in contrast to Guru Arjan's chir jivan is another indication that the author of the additional part was not a good poet. More importantly it is lacking in the structural unity that is usually achieved by Guru Arjan in his hymns. The overall tone of reading in the original scarcely matches the rhythmic beauty of Guru Arjan's poetic style.

Finally, the theory of the origin of the Banno recension (that I have discussed in detail in my doctoral work143) needs to be further qualified in view of the above analysis. The issue of Brahmincal influence must be considered in the union of Hindali, Udasi and Bhatra interests. We shall return to this issue in Chapter Seven. This Banno interest group, it seems, had a hidden agenda to arrest the process of crystallization of the Sikh tradition. Whereas the elite group of the Panth had developed a strong sense of distinctive identity, a large body of believers was still following Brahmincal traditions. 144 The Banno group had started to exert its influence within the Panth in the area of Khara Mangat in Gujrat district, while the main centre of Sikh activities under Guru Har Gobind had already shifted to Kiratpur. Even the Amritsar area was under the control of Minas, Prithichand's descendants, and their followers. This was a time when apocryphal literature was proliferating under Brahmincal influence. This is evident from a manuscript containing the text Sukhamani Sahansarnama written by Miharban's successor under the symbol of mahalu 8 in 1646 (sambat 1703 manghar sudi 1 ).145 This composition is based on the model of Guru Arjan's Sukhamani and praises th!} Vaishnava avatars and other figures from Hindu mythology. It clearly indicates that the process of Hinduization of Sikh tradition had already begun. It was during this period that the Banno Bir was copied from the original volume in 1642, although the additional material was interpolated into it some time later. This was an intentional tampering with the Adi Granth text, which was done to legitimize the Hindu life-cycle rituals in the Sikh community by putting words into the mouth of Guru Arjan.146

Page 121 In the light of the textual analysis of the Ramkali hymn examines W.H. McLeod’s views on the Kartarpur-Banno debate. The following excerpts from his article may prove useful in our analysis:

The nature of these points as recorded in the Banno version suggests an obvious reason for their deletion from the Kartarpur manuscript. They incorporate concepts which would be unacceptable in the light of later Khalsa ideals. This particularly applies to a Ramkali hymn attributed to Guru Arjan which, in its Banno form, refers to the shaving of child Hargobind's head....

If the additional portions supplied by Banno version correspond to deletions in the Kartarpur manuscript there could conceivably be justification for concluding that Banno represents an earlier recension than Kartarpur.

Let it not be supposed that at this stage I am arguing this case as one which I am personally prepared to affirm. This I am certainly not prepared to do....
There is thus no suggestion that the Kartarpur claims are on the brink of refutation. The point which I am endeavouring to make is simply that we need a sustained campaign of textual analysis if we are to establish a sure and certain text.147

Here McLeod argues that the Khalsa ideals could have provided' motive for the deletion (though upon close examination we now know that there is no actual deletion) of the additional portions of the Ramkali hymn in the Kartarpur manuscript. I have personally examined folio 703/1 of the Kartarpur manuscript and can affirm that while there is a blank space of more than two folios after the opening verse of the Ramkali hymn, there is no evidence of any erasure or any other kind of deletion. If there were such a deletion, it would support the claim that the Banno text may actually represent an earlier recension than the Kartarpur text.
Thus McLeod’s hypothesis is a clear case of retrospective interpretation which cannot be convincingly applied to explain seventeenth-century Sikh situation. The question of later deletion in this instance cannot be taken seriously since there are a number of seventeenth-century manuscripts of the Adi Granth that do not contain the extra material of the Banno version. Also, the assumption Page 122 that the hymn is somehow related to the puberty rites of Guru Har Gobind cannot be sustained. It should be emphasized here, however, that McLeod suspends his final judgement on the Kartarpur Banno issue and, instead, urges that there be a sustained campaign of textual analysis to establish a sure and certain text. Recently, however, McLeod has revised his position on the issue of Guru Arjan's Ramkali hymn. 148

In concluding the argument of this section it may be stated that the Ramkali hymn, as found in the Kartarpur manuscript, never consisted of more than two aphoristic sayings, which may have been uttered by Guru Arjan on the occasion of a marriage. These sayings, which stand recorded in the Kartarpur volume, were perhaps intended to be developed into a complete hymn later. There is another such instance provided by Var Basant in the Adi Granth, which, unlike other Vaars of the Gurus, has only three stanzas.149 According to tradition, when Guru Arjan had just completed three stanzas of this Var, he was informed by a Sikh that langar ('communal meal') was ready. He left the work unfinished and joined the congregation for meals. This incomplete composition was recorded in the Kartarpur manuscript much later. Unfortunately Guru Arjan was executed by the Mughal authorities in 1606, before he could complete these compositions. It is my contention that it was the Banno group that completed the Ramkali hymn in their version of the Adi Granth in order to legitimize the Brahmincal life-cycle rituals in the Sikh community. This is my answer to the, academic question raised in the Kartarpur-Banno debate that has been going on for the last two decades.

We can discuss it later.

Virinder
 
Waheguru created His own Guru-form - the "Shabad Guru". Only Waheguru is capable of having someone meet Him or reach Him. In order to accomplish this huge task He formed His own Guru-form. Waheguru is jyot saroop, which means has the form of light. A light brighter than a million suns. Gurbani is also part of that. Like the sea and waves - both are water, yet both have different functions and forms. Waheguru is the ocean, and the Satguru (the True Guru) is the wave, that washes upon our souls, and gently pulls us back towards the sea (Waheguru). In 1469, the Invisible/Unmanifest (Nirgun) form of Waheguru manifested His attributes to the Guru-form which was Guru Nanak Dev jee. Through Guru Nanak Dev jee's coming each and every person had a chance to communicate with the Creator and acting upon the revealed message could achieve liberation whilst alive (jeevan-muktee), whereas in the past only the rare few Bhagats who practiced extreme efforts on meditating upon the Creator achieved union with Waheguru.

05-Guru_Arjan_Dev_Ji_with_Aad_Granth_Jee.jpg




Aad Granth Sahib (also known as 'Pothi Sahib')The Fifth Nanak, Guru Arjan Dev jee, accumulated the Shabad revelation from first 5 Gurus, 15 Bhagats and 11 Bhatts and 3 Sikhs, and recorded it into the physical Word in the form of 'Aad Granth Sahib jee' (also referred to as 'Pothi Sahib'), which was earlier form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. In 1604 the Aad Granth Sahib jee was installed on a high pedestal within Sri Darbaar Sahib, and Guru Arjan Dev jee from then on sat in the Sangat. Guru Arjan Dev jee showed so much respect to the Shabad-Guru that he would sleep on the floor and instead the Aad Granth Sahib jee would be placed to rest on the bed.
gtb4.jpg


Aad Granth Sahib jee & Dheer MalPothi Sahib (known today as the Kartarpur Bir) was kept by the Sixth Nanak, Guru Hagobind Sahib jee in his house. From here it was stolen by his grandson called Dheer Mal, who intended to use it to further his claims on the succession of the Guruship. Some 30 years later the Sikhs of the Ninth Nanak, Guru Tegh Bahadur jee forcibly recovered it, but were instructed by Guru Sahib to return it. But as the Sikhs were far from the town, they placed it in the shallow river bed of the Satluj River. From here Dheer Mal recovered it, miraculously it was undamaged The Bir was taken by Dheer Mal and his family to where they lived in Kartarpur, thus the name Kartapur Bir ('Bir' meaning 'Volume').Kartarpur Bir
Kartarpur_Sahib_Bir.jpg


During Guru Gobind Singh Sahib jee's Guru-ship, Baba Deep Singh along with 24 other Singhs went to Dheer Mal (the grandson of the Sixth Guru) to ask him to return the Kartarpur Bir (the original Aad Granth Sahib jee that Guru Arjan Sahib jee compiled) that he had forcibly taken during the time of Guru Hargobind Sahib jee. Dheer Mal refused and replied, "If your Guru is the same 'Roop' (form) as the first and fifth Guru Sahibs, then why doesn't he fashion Gurbaani from memory?"Damdami Bir
Guru Gobind Singh Sahib jee stayed Talwandi Sabo (known as Sri Damdama Sahib today) for 9 months and 9 days in 1706 and dictated the entire Aad Granth Sahib jee with the addition of Guru Teg Bahadar jee's revealed Bani (sacred hymns), whilst Bhai Mani Singh jee undertook the task of scribing under Guru Sahib's supervision. Baba Deep Singh jee did seva of preparing ink and providing the resources for scribing. Undoubtedly, Guru Sahib got rid of certain unauthorised writings which had crept into some pirated copies and gave the Granth (Scripture) it's final form. As this Bir (Volume) was compiled by Guru Sahib at Sri Damdama Sahib, in Southern Panjab, this final form of the Granth Sahib jee became known as the 'Damdami Bir'.
10-Dasam_Pita_bowing_before_Sri_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji.jpg

Resting Guru-ship in the Guru Granth-Guru PanthThis Bir was then taken to Sri Hazoor Sahib, NandeR, in 1708 by Guru Gobind Singh jee. On 20th October, a day before Guru Gobind Singh jee physically passed away, he asked Bhai Daya Singh jee to bring Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee and do Parkaash (ceremonial opening). Guru jee placed a cocunut and 5 coins in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee and bowed his head before the Shabad Guru and announced that from now on the eternal Guru will be Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Guru jee told the Sangat: “With the directive of the Almighty, initiated is the Panth. All the Sikhs are decreed to acknowledge Granth as Guru. Believing in Khalsa, epitomises the Guru as corporeal. Sikhs desirous to achieve me, (may) search in them.”

Prince George Sikh Youth: History of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
Waheguru created His own Guru-form - the "Shabad Guru". Only Waheguru is capable of having someone meet Him or reach Him. In order to accomplish this huge task He formed His own Guru-form. Waheguru is jyot saroop, which means has the form of light. A light brighter than a million suns. Gurbani is also part of that. Like the sea and waves - both are water, yet both have different functions and forms. Waheguru is the ocean, and the Satguru (the True Guru) is the wave, that washes upon our souls, and gently pulls us back towards the sea (Waheguru). In 1469, the Invisible/Unmanifest (Nirgun) form of Waheguru manifested His attributes to the Guru-form which was Guru Nanak Dev jee. Through Guru Nanak Dev jee's coming each and every person had a chance to communicate with the Creator and acting upon the revealed message could achieve liberation whilst alive (jeevan-muktee), whereas in the past only the rare few Bhagats who practiced extreme efforts on meditating upon the Creator achieved union with Waheguru.

05-Guru_Arjan_Dev_Ji_with_Aad_Granth_Jee.jpg




Aad Granth Sahib (also known as 'Pothi Sahib')The Fifth Nanak, Guru Arjan Dev jee, accumulated the Shabad revelation from first 5 Gurus, 15 Bhagats and 11 Bhatts and 3 Sikhs, and recorded it into the physical Word in the form of 'Aad Granth Sahib jee' (also referred to as 'Pothi Sahib'), which was earlier form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. In 1604 the Aad Granth Sahib jee was installed on a high pedestal within Sri Darbaar Sahib, and Guru Arjan Dev jee from then on sat in the Sangat. Guru Arjan Dev jee showed so much respect to the Shabad-Guru that he would sleep on the floor and instead the Aad Granth Sahib jee would be placed to rest on the bed.
gtb4.jpg


Aad Granth Sahib jee & Dheer MalPothi Sahib (known today as the Kartarpur Bir) was kept by the Sixth Nanak, Guru Hagobind Sahib jee in his house. From here it was stolen by his grandson called Dheer Mal, who intended to use it to further his claims on the succession of the Guruship. Some 30 years later the Sikhs of the Ninth Nanak, Guru Tegh Bahadur jee forcibly recovered it, but were instructed by Guru Sahib to return it. But as the Sikhs were far from the town, they placed it in the shallow river bed of the Satluj River. From here Dheer Mal recovered it, miraculously it was undamaged The Bir was taken by Dheer Mal and his family to where they lived in Kartarpur, thus the name Kartapur Bir ('Bir' meaning 'Volume').Kartarpur Bir
Kartarpur_Sahib_Bir.jpg


During Guru Gobind Singh Sahib jee's Guru-ship, Baba Deep Singh along with 24 other Singhs went to Dheer Mal (the grandson of the Sixth Guru) to ask him to return the Kartarpur Bir (the original Aad Granth Sahib jee that Guru Arjan Sahib jee compiled) that he had forcibly taken during the time of Guru Hargobind Sahib jee. Dheer Mal refused and replied, "If your Guru is the same 'Roop' (form) as the first and fifth Guru Sahibs, then why doesn't he fashion Gurbaani from memory?"Damdami Bir
Guru Gobind Singh Sahib jee stayed Talwandi Sabo (known as Sri Damdama Sahib today) for 9 months and 9 days in 1706 and dictated the entire Aad Granth Sahib jee with the addition of Guru Teg Bahadar jee's revealed Bani (sacred hymns), whilst Bhai Mani Singh jee undertook the task of scribing under Guru Sahib's supervision. Baba Deep Singh jee did seva of preparing ink and providing the resources for scribing. Undoubtedly, Guru Sahib got rid of certain unauthorised writings which had crept into some pirated copies and gave the Granth (Scripture) it's final form. As this Bir (Volume) was compiled by Guru Sahib at Sri Damdama Sahib, in Southern Panjab, this final form of the Granth Sahib jee became known as the 'Damdami Bir'.
10-Dasam_Pita_bowing_before_Sri_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji.jpg

Resting Guru-ship in the Guru Granth-Guru PanthThis Bir was then taken to Sri Hazoor Sahib, NandeR, in 1708 by Guru Gobind Singh jee. On 20th October, a day before Guru Gobind Singh jee physically passed away, he asked Bhai Daya Singh jee to bring Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee and do Parkaash (ceremonial opening). Guru jee placed a cocunut and 5 coins in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee and bowed his head before the Shabad Guru and announced that from now on the eternal Guru will be Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Guru jee told the Sangat: “With the directive of the Almighty, initiated is the Panth. All the Sikhs are decreed to acknowledge Granth as Guru. Believing in Khalsa, epitomises the Guru as corporeal. Sikhs desirous to achieve me, (may) search in them.”

Prince George Sikh Youth: History of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Who is the author of the above?
Is there any bibliography about the above?

Can you please provide the above information?

Thanks

Tejwant Singh
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
The link is there Tejwant, all you have to do is click it. :D

Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Giving the benefit of the doubt is also part of Sikhi, jumping to conclusions without thinking is not. Sikhi is all about Vichaar and without thinking one can neither understand nor absorb what our Gurus tell us through SGGS.

I did clicked the link. I could not find the author nor any bibliography there.

What I found was the following note regarding the above write up you copied and pasted from the site:

Courtesy of Manvir Singh Khalsa
manvirsingh.blogspot.com

I went to the above blog and could not find anything either.

That is the only reason I asked for your help.

Hoping to get the answers for my previous post.

Tejwant Singh
 

vsgrewal48895

Writer
SPNer
Mar 12, 2009
651
663
89
Michigan
Dear Singh Ji,

Have you ever read a page of AGGS by your self or you are copying and pasting some artists paintings? There were no cameras in 1699. Send me an article written by your self or stop this.

Thanks

Virinder
 

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