• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Sabd Guru On Sword (ਖੜਗੁ/ਖੰਡਾ)

Dear Singh Ji,

Have you ever read a page of AGGS by your self or you are copying and pasting some artists paintings? There were no cameras in 1699. Send me an article written by your self or stop this.

Thanks

Virinder

yes I have read a ang sung of Gurbani, infact I have read more than that. Also there is no need to get person here, Dr. Virinder Singh Grewal, I will present the facts as they are and if these facts include you in them then so be it, because this is why we are here to present facts of Truth.

Thanks
Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,708
14,381
75
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
Dear All,
My humble opinion on these Abstracts...and personal experiences !!

1. At first glance and superficial reading...it does look as if the author is advocating Abandoning the 5 Kakaars...anti kesh and all that....BUT is that really the case? Maybe and maybe not..ONLy the author and Akal Purakh knows whats in his heart...BUT I managed to CONVINCE some Youths who had cut hair, saw absolutley no need for the Kirpan...and the other 5 kakaars as well...THROUGH THE USE OF THESE SAME ABSTRACTS.

I had in my posession various Tracts and pamphlets published in FAVOUR of HAIR/KESH..arguing on variosu aspects like Kesh is good for health..Vitamin D..scientific facts...and finally that Kesh Kakaars are a Godlen Gift from our Guru Ji..etc etc. These people were not convinced.
What did the trick ..so to speak....these Abstracts !!
I applied what is called REVERSE ENGINEERING....and the Gurbani quoted in these Abstracts actually solved the dilemma of choice facing these wayward youths..and..NOW these seven youths are proud 5 kakaree KHALSAS..

The Choice is... INSIDE KHALSA first or OUTSIDE KHALSA first. Many of us overzealously push for the OUTSIDE SROOP First...Take Khandeh dee Pahul FIRST..and then "talk"...but then first of all we TERRIFY them by saying..This will break your Amrit..that will break Amrit..you cannot do this..you cant do THAT....so many black and white RULES....and the poor fellow says..OK..I get it..Amrit is damn hard..and I am NOT READY...and I can bet he/she will never be READY.

Guur Nanak ji stressed on the INSIDE....and the other Gurus followed suit for the next 200 years or so...and then FINALLY Guur Gobind Singh Ji saw the Khalsa READY for the OUTER SROOP...and made the Amrit mandatory to the KHALSA who are READY. Nearly 20,000 at Anandpur Sahib in 1699 were READY..and the rest..60,000 were NOT READY. But the important thing is Guru Ji DIDNT CHASE THOSE AWAY....they remained just as honourably as BEFORE the Amrit Ceremony !!

2. There is a "css"..the clean shaven sikh...and that is a direct result of the PREVIOUS GENERATION..who fell into RITUALISTIC SIKHI....havig Kakars for the "sake" of having them....THOSE only had the OUTER SROOP....the CSS sons dropped the Kesh inspite of their parental objections...

3. What the CSS dont realise is that MOST of those css who call themsleves SIKHS..not only have no "outer Sroop"...they DONT HAVE much SIKHI too..as they DONT know GURMUKHI..Cannot communicate in Punjabi...and their GURU....most of them are also SIKH just because they were BORN to Sikhs..their NEXT Generation are even LESS SIKHS as time goes along....going to Gurdwara and looking for the "Gyani ji" forevery small task...is commonplace for them...just so the "gyani Ji" can handle everything..is fine with them....some one died..quick phone the Gurdwara and ask the Gyani ji..what to do....want to do an "akhand paath"..ask the Gyani lah..he will handle everything..blah blah blah..what SIKHI is THAT ?? Their SIKHI si meet up..chat up..serve good food to the arriving friends..network a bit..and let the Gyanis do the paath/ardass/kirtan..and then take the Baba Ji home...Task Completed.
SO NOW since its common knowledge that these "CSS Sikhs/Kkaree Sikhs"..Dont know "****" about anything..the Gyani Jis are also the SAME TYPES....BLIND leading the BLIND !! Whos to know ?? The Very First thing the Gyani will settle are the "MONEY"....money for this..money for that..BHETA..for paath..ardass..kirtan..whatever extras...settled..paid..done. WHY do you think the DERAS and Babas are FLOURISHING at such PHENOMENAL RATES....like mushrooms after a shower !! Hundreds of thousands of CSS....and equal numbers of "Banna wearing 5 kakaree SIkhs" THRONG these DERAS !! WHAT do the Kirpan wearing Dastardharee Sikhs want from the babas ?? Clearly they are NOT "true Sikhs" INSIDE..OR they wont be there at all !!!!They are BHEKHEE SIKHS.... The KHOT is there..among the CSS and also among the Banna Sikhs.....its up to US..as SIKHS to search for the CURE...The CURE is in GURBANI....the CSS may be searching GURBANI to "justify" his CSS state...while the Amrtidharee Sikh will be doign the Same to "justify" his side....at least BOTH are READING and Vichaaring GURBANI...THATS GOOD !!!! GURBANI is Divine Message..i beleive GURBANI has the Power to CURE the "SICK".....no matter of the sickness is "inside" or "outside"...
4. Many CSS sikhs are NOT CUTTING the Kesh of their CHILDREN...I am surprised so many times when I see a cute Young Sikh with nice Joorrra/dastaar/patka..and notice hsi daddy is CSS !! This happened once too many times..so I began to ask around and notice the answers...Always the same answer...I DONT WANT TO CUT MY SONS HAIR....I want HIM to DECIDE HIMSELF.....and IF the Khalsa School/Gurdwara authorites concentrate on imparting the TRUE GURBANI KNOWLEDGE to "HIM".. I beleive He will NEVER CUT his hair !!!and thsi is happening...more frequently...!!!
While those Keshdharee fathers/mothers who are actually "empty inside" and just following the Kesh Tradition due to peer pressure/my dad will scold me..types...often pull their hair out when the teenage son coems home from the barber...they cry and wail...BUT FAIL to realsie its their MISTAKE and FAULT..for not teaching their sons GURBANI/VALUE SYSTEM of GURBANI....but simply insiting on keeping kesh..its good for you son..its my ORDER !!

These are soem of the Khamian..shortcomings among us..that are leading towards decline..we cna arrest this decline and reverse the trends...IF WE sincerely FOLLOW GURBANI in word and deed.

No offense meant or taken..no malice towards anyone.:welcome:
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said. As usual. The amber glows itself from the within. If it had no glow in it, then it would not be called an amber.

Gurbani is the amber of a Sikh. If it does not make us glow from the within, then we shall remain in the dark no matter how many halogen lamps in the shape of Baana we flash ourselves with.

Thanks to Virinder ji's abstracts, each of us has the chance to discover our own amber within. His insightful abstracts are like caneries in the coal mines.

Tejwant Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,708
14,381
75
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said. As usual. The amber glows itself from the within. If it had no glow in it, then it would not be called an amber.

Gurbani is the amber of a Sikh. If it does not make us glow from the within, then we shall remain in the dark no matter how many halogen lamps in the shape of Baana we flash ourselves with.

Thanks to Virinder ji's abstracts, each of us has the chance to discover our own amber within. His insightful abstracts are like caneries in the coal mines.

Tejwant Singh

Teji Ji,
Gurfateh.

Your use of the word amber..brought to mind a short poem by Mohan Singh.

Its about the KOLA...the Burning Amber. He says..the KOLA turned BLACK.. when it was separated from its "fire"....no matter how many washings..in soap and milk..and etc etc..the BLACKNESS never went away...
UNTIL it was REUNITED with the FIRE...and lo and behold..in an instant the Jet Black KOLA..began to GLOW..in Fiery RED.

I cant recall the exact words...off hand..but the above is the general meaning...
We are like the Black KOLAS...when we are away from GURBANI....and only GLOW in full GLORY..wehn we are reunited with it...
Thanks for a beautiful message...
 

vsgrewal48895

Writer
SPNer
Mar 12, 2009
651
663
89
Michigan
Dear All.

Going off the track and spinning the question does not help. % k's may be the first step in detering the lower spirit but does not help in spirituality in developing virtues, which are developed by individual effort and deeds. 5 K's per se has no spiritual value except being political and a sourse of Identity. I am a student of Spirituality and not of materialism. These are a show of external piety and are left behind just like the holy thread of the Brahmin falls and burnt after death. It is by self dcipline that one progresses further.

Sanjam-(ਸੰਜਮੁ/ ਸੰਜਮ) meaning ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਵਲੋਂ ਪਰਹੇਜ਼, ਮਨ ਨੂੰ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਵਲੋਂ ਰੋਕਣ ਦਾ ਉਪਰਾਲਾ/ਵਿਧੀ/ ਆਹਰ/ਰਹਿਤ/ਪ੍ਰਹੇਜ਼, ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਵੱਸ ਕਰਨ ਦੇ ਸਾਧਨ/ਜਤਨ/ਤਪੱਸਿਆ, ਇੰਦਰਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਵਲੋਂ ਰੋਕਣ ਦੇ ਯਤਨ, ਮਨ ਨੂੰ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਵਲੋਂ ਰੋਕਣ ਦੇ ਜਤਨ। (ਟਿਕੇ ਰਹਿਣ ਦੀ) ਜੁਗਤਿ, ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਣ/ਉਪਰਾਲਾ/ਵਿਧੀ/ ਆਹਰ/ਰਹਿਤ/ਪ੍ਰਹੇਜ਼, ਰਹਿਤ-ਰਹਿਣੀ, ਬੰਦਸ਼, ਪਾਬੰਦੀ, ਪਰਹੇਜ਼ -Brevity, restraint, discipline, soberness, forbearance, abstinence, austerity. This word comes many times in AGGS in one form or the other advising self discipline in all forms and Guru Arjan in Raag Bilawal refers to it as question and answer;

Q. ਕਿਤੁ ਬਿਧੀਐ ਕਿਤੁ ਸੰਜਮਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ਕਹੁ ਸੁਰਜਨ ਕਿਤੁ ਜੁਗਤੀ ਧਿਆਈਐ ॥

Kiṯ biḏẖīai kiṯ sanjam pāīai. Kaho surjan kiṯ jugṯī ḏẖiāīai.

In what way, and by what discipline, is God obtained? Tell me, O good man, by what means can we meditate on Akal Purkh?

A.ਜੋ ਮਾਨੁਖੁ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਓਹੁ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਲਈ ਲਈ ਫੁਨਿ ਜਾਈਐ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਨਿ ਸਰਣਿ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਮੋਹਿ ਟੇਕ ਤੇਰੋ ਇਕ ਨਾਈਐ ॥

Jo mānukẖ mānukẖ kī sėvā oh ṯis kī laī laī fun jāīai. Nānak saran saraṇ sukẖ sāgar mohi tėk ṯėro ik nāīai.

If one human being serves another human being, the one served stands by him. Nanak seeks Your Sanctuary and Protection, O Lord, ocean of peace; He takes the Support of Your Name alone. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page, 822

ਰਸਨਾ ਉਚਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਸ੍ਰਵਣੀ ਸੁਣੈ ਸੋ ਉਧਰੈ ਮਿਤਾ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਜਸੁ ਲਿਖਹਿ ਲਾਇ ਭਾਵਨੀ ਸੇ ਹਸਤ ਪਵਿਤਾ ॥ ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਮਜਨਾ ਸਭਿ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਿਨਿ ਕਿਤਾ ॥ਸੰਸਾਰ ਸਾਗਰ ਤੇ ਉਧਰੇ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਗੜੁ ਜਿਤਾ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਲੜਿ ਲਾਇ ਉਧਾਰਿਅਨੁ ਦਯੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਅਮਿਤਾ ॥

Rasnaa Uchrai Har Sarvanee Sunai So UDhrai Mitaa, Har Jas Likheh Laa-ay Bhaavnee Say Hasat Pavitaa. Athsath Tirath Majnaa Sabh Punn Tin Kitaa, Sansaar Saagar Tay UDhray Bikhi-aa Garh Jitaa, Nanak Larh Laa-ay UDhaari-an Da-yu Sayv Amitaa.

Those who chant the God's Name with their tongues and hear it with their ears are saved, O my friend. Those hands which lovingly write the Praises of the God are pure. It is like performing all sorts of virtuous deeds, and bathing at the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage. They cross over the world-ocean, and conquer the fortress of corruption. O Nanak, serve the Infinite God; grasp the hem of Its robe, and It will save you. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 322

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਲੋਰੈ ॥ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਇਹ ਹਉਮੈ ਛੋਰੈ ॥

Jė ko apunī sobẖā lorai. Sāḏẖsang ih haumai cẖẖorai.

If you long for honor for yourself, then renounce your ego in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.

ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਜੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਨੀਚਾ ॥ਸੋਊ ਗਨੀਐ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚਾ ॥

Āpas kao jo jāṇai nīcẖā. Soū ganīai sabẖ ṯė ūcẖā.

One, who sees himself as lowly, shall be accounted as the highest of all. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 266

ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਨ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੇ ਕਿਨੇਹਿਆ ॥ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਮੂਲਿ ਸਾਂਈ ਜੇਹਿਆ ॥

Jinĥā na visrai nām sė kinėhiā. Bẖėḏ na jāṇhu mūl sāʼnī jėhiā.

What are they like - those who do not forget the Naam, the Name of the God? Know that there is absolutely no difference; they are exactly like the God. -----Guru Arjan. Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 397-17

ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਤੇਰੈ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਕਾਮ ॥ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥ਸਰੰਜਾਮਿ ਲਾਗੁ ਭਵਜਲ ਤਰਨ ਕੈ ॥ਜਨਮੁ ਬ੍ਰਿਥਾ ਜਾਤ ਰੰਗਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ॥ ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਮ ਨੀਚ ਕਰੰਮਾ ॥ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰੇ ਕੀ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਸਰਮਾ ॥

Bẖa¬ī parāpaṯ mānukẖ ḏėhurī¬ā. Gobinḏ milaṇ kī ih ṯėrī barī¬ā. Avar kāj ṯėrai kiṯai na kām. Mil sāḏẖsangaṯ bẖaj kėval nām. Saraʼnjām lāg bẖavjal ṯaran kai. Janam baritha jāṯ rang mā¬i¬ā kai. Jap ṯap sanjam ḏẖaram na kamā¬i¬ā. Sėvā sāḏẖ na jāni¬ā har rā¬i¬ā. Kaho Nānak ham nīcẖ karammā. Saraṇ parė kī rākẖo sarmā.

I have not practiced meditation, self-discipline, self-restraint or righteous living. I have not served the Holy; I have not acknowledged the Lord, my King. Says Nanak, my actions are contemptible! O Lord, I seek Your Sanctuary; please, preserve my honor! You have been blessed with this human body. This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe. Other efforts are of no use to you. Joining the Sadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, vibrate and meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord. Make the effort, and cross over the terrifying world ocean. This human life is passing away in vain, in the love of Maya. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 12 & 378

This ends my debate with out answering my first question on the sabd and spinning it. Thanks all for participating.

Cordially,
Virinder
 
Dear All. Going off the track and spinning the question does not help. % k's may be the first step in detering the lower spirit but does not help in spirituality in developing virtues, which are developed by individual effort and deeds. 5 K's per se has no spiritual value except being political and a sourse of Identity.

As this is your opinion and it stands on no ground and has no truth to it.

I am a student of Spirituality and not of materialism.

The 5 ks which you refer to as materialism, are very much Spiritually helpful.

These are a show of external piety and are left behind just like the holy thread of the Brahmin falls and burnt after death. It is by self dcipline that one progresses further.

Once again your opinion, but this poorly contructed statement has no ground and breaks apart, once analyzed with just glass.


Q. ਕਿਤੁ ਬਿਧੀਐ ਕਿਤੁ ਸੰਜਮਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ਕਹੁ ਸੁਰਜਨ ਕਿਤੁ ਜੁਗਤੀ ਧਿਆਈਐ ॥

Kiṯ biḏẖīai kiṯ sanjam pāīai. Kaho surjan kiṯ jugṯī ḏẖiāīai.

In what way, and by what discipline, is God obtained? Tell me, O good man, by what means can we meditate on Akal Purkh?

A.ਜੋ ਮਾਨੁਖੁ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਓਹੁ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਲਈ ਲਈ ਫੁਨਿ ਜਾਈਐ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਨਿ ਸਰਣਿ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਮੋਹਿ ਟੇਕ ਤੇਰੋ ਇਕ ਨਾਈਐ ॥

Jo mānukẖ mānukẖ kī sėvā oh ṯis kī laī laī fun jāīai. Nānak saran saraṇ sukẖ sāgar mohi tėk ṯėro ik nāīai.

If one human being serves another human being, the one served stands by him. Nanak seeks Your Sanctuary and Protection, O Lord, ocean of peace; He takes the Support of Your Name alone. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page, 822

The reason why you presented this shabad, only you would know. This shabad does not say the 5 ks don't help in spirituality in developing virtues. Reading this above shabad one can't help notice this tuk If one human being serves another human being, the one served stands by him.

Isn't this the best description of the Khalsa Panth. Who serves humanity and who protects humanity. Its the Khalsa Panth that serves another and protects another. The 5 ks are very much apart of the Khalsa Panth discipline and is the discipline of the Tenth Nanak.

ਰਸਨਾ ਉਚਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਸ੍ਰਵਣੀ ਸੁਣੈ ਸੋ ਉਧਰੈ ਮਿਤਾ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਜਸੁ ਲਿਖਹਿ ਲਾਇ ਭਾਵਨੀ ਸੇ ਹਸਤ ਪਵਿਤਾ ॥ ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਮਜਨਾ ਸਭਿ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਿਨਿ ਕਿਤਾ ॥ਸੰਸਾਰ ਸਾਗਰ ਤੇ ਉਧਰੇ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਗੜੁ ਜਿਤਾ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਲੜਿ ਲਾਇ ਉਧਾਰਿਅਨੁ ਦਯੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਅਮਿਤਾ ॥

Rasnaa Uchrai Har Sarvanee Sunai So UDhrai Mitaa, Har Jas Likheh Laa-ay Bhaavnee Say Hasat Pavitaa. Athsath Tirath Majnaa Sabh Punn Tin Kitaa, Sansaar Saagar Tay UDhray Bikhi-aa Garh Jitaa, Nanak Larh Laa-ay UDhaari-an Da-yu Sayv Amitaa.

Those who chant the God's Name with their tongues and hear it with their ears are saved, O my friend. Those hands which lovingly write the Praises of the God are pure. It is like performing all sorts of virtuous deeds, and bathing at the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage. They cross over the world-ocean, and conquer the fortress of corruption. O Nanak, serve the Infinite God; grasp the hem of Its robe, and It will save you. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 322

Once again this shabad does not speak out agianst the 5 Kakkars, the reason why you presented it, only you know.

Chanting of the Lord's name is a discipline of the Khalsa. 5 Bani are to be chanted by the tongue and heard by the ears in the Amrit Vaylaa. The Khalsa has taken up the Guru's discipline and everyday stays absorbed in the Shabad Guru. The Khalsa serves the Infinite God and has graspped the hem of the Guru by taking Amrit.

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਲੋਰੈ ॥ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਇਹ ਹਉਮੈ ਛੋਰੈ ॥

Jė ko apunī sobẖā lorai. Sāḏẖsang ih haumai cẖẖorai.

If you long for honor for yourself, then renounce your ego in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.

ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਜੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਨੀਚਾ ॥ਸੋਊ ਗਨੀਐ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚਾ ॥

Āpas kao jo jāṇai nīcẖā. Soū ganīai sabẖ ṯė ūcẖā.

One, who sees himself as lowly, shall be accounted as the highest of all. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 266

On ang sung 266 the top line you presented: If you long for honor for yourself, then renounce your ego in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.

Don't come before the second line of Gurbani that you have presented. The way you have presented these two lines it looks like as the second line comes after the first line you presented, but this is not true. As the second line you presented comes a couple of lines later.

So to address these tuk separately the correct way they still don't say anything against the 5 ks.

ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਨ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੇ ਕਿਨੇਹਿਆ ॥ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਮੂਲਿ ਸਾਂਈ ਜੇਹਿਆ ॥

Jinĥā na visrai nām sė kinėhiā. Bẖėḏ na jāṇhu mūl sāʼnī jėhiā.

What are they like - those who do not forget the Naam, the Name of the God? Know that there is absolutely no difference; they are exactly like the God. -----Guru Arjan. Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 397-17

Again why you present this shabad only you know. The Khalsa doesn't forget the Naam. Bhai Mani Singh ji a Khalsa and Bhai Taru Singh ji a Khalsa, both wore and kepted the 5 ks and lived the Khalsa discipline.


ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਤੇਰੈ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਕਾਮ ॥ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥ਸਰੰਜਾਮਿ ਲਾਗੁ ਭਵਜਲ ਤਰਨ ਕੈ ॥ਜਨਮੁ ਬ੍ਰਿਥਾ ਜਾਤ ਰੰਗਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ॥ ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਮ ਨੀਚ ਕਰੰਮਾ ॥ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰੇ ਕੀ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਸਰਮਾ ॥

Bẖa¬ī parāpaṯ mānukẖ ḏėhurī¬ā. Gobinḏ milaṇ kī ih ṯėrī barī¬ā. Avar kāj ṯėrai kiṯai na kām. Mil sāḏẖsangaṯ bẖaj kėval nām. Saraʼnjām lāg bẖavjal ṯaran kai. Janam baritha jāṯ rang mā¬i¬ā kai. Jap ṯap sanjam ḏẖaram na kamā¬i¬ā. Sėvā sāḏẖ na jāni¬ā har rā¬i¬ā. Kaho Nānak ham nīcẖ karammā. Saraṇ parė kī rākẖo sarmā.

I have not practiced meditation, self-discipline, self-restraint or righteous living. I have not served the Holy; I have not acknowledged the Lord, my King. Says Nanak, my actions are contemptible! O Lord, I seek Your Sanctuary; please, preserve my honor! You have been blessed with this human body. This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe. Other efforts are of no use to you. Joining the Sadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, vibrate and meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord. Make the effort, and cross over the terrifying world ocean. This human life is passing away in vain, in the love of Maya. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 12 & 378

Lastly, why you present this shabad only you know, but it doesn't speak out against the 5 ks as you have made a statement at the beginning of this post against the 5 ks, which has no merit. None of the above shabads you provide say the 5ks provide no spiritual value. In fact you will not find one shabad that speaks out against the 5 ks because the 5 ks were given to the Khalsa by the Tenth Nanak!

This ends my debate with out answering my first question on the sabd and spinning it. Thanks all for participating.

Cordially,
Virinder

And now the debate just ended:D
 

tony

SPNer
Feb 20, 2006
150
84
nottingham england
Dear Singh ji
As you are an ardent supporter of the five Ks could you please tell me what each one is and what they stand for as you see them. I am asking not to start an argument with you nor to ridicule them in any way but to help myself get a better understanding of how they may help me in the future, We can skip the kesh as i believe youve already told me about that, it is the others and how they help one become more spiritual that would help me to understand them better.
Tony
 

vsgrewal48895

Writer
SPNer
Mar 12, 2009
651
663
89
Michigan
Dear Singh Ji,


IMHO 5 K's could help you in deterring the 5 lower instincts and then you are of your own. These do not confer spirituality per se, you have to work for it with right actions.

ਜੇਹਾ ਰਾਧੇ ਤੇਹਾ ਲੁਣੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਣ ਜਨਮੁ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ॥ਮੁੰਧੇ ਗੁਣ ਦਾਸੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ॥ਅਵਗਣ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਸੋਇ॥

Jayhaa RaaDhay Tayhaa Lunai Bin Gun Janam Vinaas, MunDhay Gun Daasee Sukh Ho-ay, Avgan Ti-aag Samaa-ee-ai Gurmat Pooraa So-ay.

As you plant, so shall you harvest? Without virtue, this human life passes away in vain. O young bride, be a slave to virtue, and you shall find peace. Renouncing wrongful actions, following the Guru's Teachings, you shall be absorbed into the Perfect One.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Siri, AGGS, Page, 56-13

Just wake up and start working on it.

Cordially,

Virinder


 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,708
14,381
75
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
CA Kirpan Education Bill Passes First Hurdle
Coalition Leads Community in Speaking Out

http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EAsfICK/0s5xkBeh/BzKGJDEDLNzPzTl


Read the News Article in the Los Angeles Times
(Sacramento, CA) April 2, 2009 - A unanimous vote on Tuesday brings a proposed Kirpan Education Bill one step closer to mandating training for California law enforcement officers. It will now move on to the next step of the legislative process before becoming a law. This good news comes just days before we celebrate the 310th anniversary of Vaisakhi - the day the Sikh community was given our identity, Tuesday's vote marks a significant step towards creating an environment where Sikhs can practice our faith with respect and dignity in California.


A Kirpan Education Bill
The proposed law (AB 504), just passed by the
California Assembly's Public Safety Committee, would require training about the kirpan for every law enforcement officer who has the ability to make an arrest in California. The bill states explicitly, "It is the Legislature's goal to promote education and awareness of the carrying of the kirpan by Sikhs in California." For this bill to become law, it must first be approved by a number of committees. It's debut was before the Assembly Committee on Public Safety, where seven Assembly Members assessed whether this training was necessary. Many of the committee members spoke in glowing support of their Sikh constituents, including Assembly Member Warren Furutani (D-Long Beach), Assembly Member Fiona Ma (D-San Francisco), Assembly Member Nancy Skinner (D-El Sobrante), and Assembly Member Danny D. Gilmore (R-Bakersfield).


California sangat members in front of the State Capitol after Tuesday's hearing
California's Sikhs Speak Out
The California Sikh community provided a tremendous amount of support for this bill. Nearly 300 people sent letters to each Assembly Member on the Committee. In addition, 17 community members of all ages and from all over California came to the meeting to make public comments. We also received dozens of letters of support from Sikh and non-Sikh organizations. This bill could not have passed this first hurdle without the chardi kala (eternal optimism) of our California community. Together, we have planted the seeds for the momentum we need to carry this bill through the California legislative process.
Next Steps
The bill will now be heard and voted on in the Assembly Appropriations Committee. If passed, it will then move on for a vote by the entire California Assembly. If the majority of the Assembly passes the bill, it will need to go through the same process on the Senate side before becoming a law.
Over the coming months, the Coalition will work with California's Sikh community to ensure their local members of the State Assembly and Senate support this bill. If you live in California and would like information on how you can persuade your local legislators to support this bill, please contact us at legislative@sikhcoalition.org.
A Note of Thanks

The Sikh Coalition would like to thank Assembly Member Furutani for his leadership in introducing this legislation. We are also very grateful by the commitment shown by Assembly Members Ma and Skinner, who have signed on as co-authors of the legislation. The Sikh Coalition would also like to thank Nitasha Kaur Sawhney, the Coalition's local partner in California.
The following organizations all wrote letters of support for AB 504, which were crucial to Tuesday's victory: The South Asian Bar Association of Northern California, CAIR-California, Asian Americans for Civil Rights & Equality, the International Institute Of Gurmat Studies, Sikh Temple Of Sacramento, UC Berkeley Sikh Students Association, Fremont Gurdwara Sahib, Sikh Temple Of Bakersfield, California Sikh Council, Sikh Research Institute, The Sikh Foundation International, CSU Bakersfield's Department of Sociology/Anthropology, and Jakara Movement.

As always, the Sikh Coalition urges all Sikhs to practice their faith fearlessly. If someone tells you to remove your articles of faith, please report the incident.
 
Last edited:
Dear Singh Ji, IMHO 5 K's could help you in deterring the 5 lower instincts and then you are of your own. These do not confer spirituality per se, you have to work for it with right actions.

To say 5 ks can't promote a righteous action, is not a well thought out statement, that sinks like a rock in water. The 5 kakkars can remind someone of his duty to humanity and to practice unity and equality. The discpline that the 5 kakkar exist in teaches spirituality and these 5 kakkars are very much apart of a Khalsa spirituality guidance and progress. Spirituality very much exist in these 5 ks, its just some are blind too it.

ਜੇਹਾ ਰਾਧੇ ਤੇਹਾ ਲੁਣੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਣ ਜਨਮੁ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ॥ਮੁੰਧੇ ਗੁਣ ਦਾਸੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ॥ਅਵਗਣ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਸੋਇ॥

Jayhaa RaaDhay Tayhaa Lunai Bin Gun Janam Vinaas, MunDhay Gun Daasee Sukh Ho-ay, Avgan Ti-aag Samaa-ee-ai Gurmat Pooraa So-ay.

As you plant, so shall you harvest? Without virtue, this human life passes away in vain. O young bride, be a slave to virtue, and you shall find peace. Renouncing wrongful actions, following the Guru's Teachings, you shall be absorbed into the Perfect One.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Siri, AGGS, Page, 56-13

Just wake up and start working on it.

Cordially,

Virinder

Exactly this shabad tells us to follow the Guru's teachings. The Khalsa Panth is a teaching of Guru Sahib. Guru Sahib has instructed us to become Khalsa.

But the reason why you present this shabad only you would know, as it has not said 5 kakkars don't confer spiritualitly or can't promote righteous actions.
 

vsgrewal48895

Writer
SPNer
Mar 12, 2009
651
663
89
Michigan
Lalihayer Ji,

Thanks for pointing out I and me in one sentence. I am human and no saint and trying my level best to become better but still not successful.

Your thoughtful poniting will lead me in that direction. Please keep on pointing my weaknesses.

Thank you again.

Virinder
 

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

Top