Refuge?

[fschmidt]

I follow the Old Testament along with a few other people. We are looking for a refuge from modern culture which we consider to be evil. This is partly for our families. We do not want our children to grow up around evil, and we ourselves would like to associate with moral people. We do not care what other people believe, we only care that they are moral. We do not want to convert anyone to our beliefs and we have no interest in converting to other beliefs. We would strongly support a religion if it can offer us a moral refuge from modern culture by allowing us to associate with their community. We need this because we are too small to stand alone.

As a crude but simple way of judging religions, I look to see if men and women are separated during service. Feminism is one of the greatest evils of modern culture. Feminism is a {censored} power movement designed to encourage adultery and promiscuity. It always works to mix men and women whenever possible in order to encourage these things. A moral religion will separate men and women during service in order help people focus on God.

Based on this simple criteria, the possible religions are Islam, traditional Anabaptists, Orthodox Judaism, and Sikhism. Islam and Christianity (Anabaptists) are very exclusive and don't tolerate those with other beliefs. Orthodox Judaism is racist, but it is an option that we are considering. I have only started looking at Sikhism recently, but what I have seen so far, I like.

I do not live near a gurdwara, but I would certainly travel to visit one if Sikhism is a real option. So please let me know what you think. Could a gurdwara community provide the refuge that we are looking for?

 

[Ishna]

Sikhi views men and woman equally. Although men and women sit on opposite sides in Darbar Sahib (the prayer hall), they are free to mingle at will in the rest of the Gurdwara.

This includes eating together, cooking together, talking and learning.

I do not think you will find refuge among Sikhs. Also, if you think the scarf worn over the head by women in Gurdwara is for modesty, that is incorrect. While the chunni/dupatta is an important part of traditional clothing, it is not worn in Gurdwara for modesty, but to show respect to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Additionally, I find your views on feminism very narrow-minded and offensive.

Use the word '{censored}' again and it will be removed. Thank you.

 

[fschmidt]

The Old Testament also views men and women equally (meaning of equal value but not the same). My wife is looking for exactly the same thing as I am. She wants to socialize with women and I want to socialize with men. But if Sikhi supports feminism, then obviously it isn't for us.

And what should I use to replace the word you don't like? Should I say "loose women" or "promiscuous women" or what would you suggest?

 

[Ishna]

Define 'feminism'.

 

[Ishna]

Also, I'm pretty sure you could find a Jewish community that isn't "racist".

 

[fschmidt]

Define 'feminism'.

I did in my initial post, using a word you asked me not to repeat. For a complete explanation of feminism, see:

Sexual Utopia in Power

 

[fschmidt]

Also, I'm pretty sure you could find a Jewish community that isn't "racist".

Judaism is racist by definition since it grants membership based on ancestry. An evil person with a jewish mother is a full member while a person who follows Old Testament but hasn't gone through the long conversion process is not.

I actually know a lot about Judaism because I meet their racial criteria and attended Orthodox synagogue for 2 years. I absolutely hate racism, but in spite of this defect, Judaism still seems to be the leading candidate at the moment.

 

[Ishna]

So... feminism is just a movement to encourage adultery and promiscuity?

 

[fschmidt]

So... feminism is just a movement to encourage adultery and promiscuity?

Yes, this is what it is mostly about.

 

[Ishna]

Judaism is racist by definition since it grants membership based on ancestry. An evil person with a jewish mother is a full member while a person who follows Old Testament but hasn't gone through the long conversion process is not.

I actually know a lot about Judaism because I meet their racial criteria and attended Orthodox synagogue for 2 years. I absolutely hate racism, but in spite of this defect, Judaism still seems to be the leading candidate at the moment.

Yes, please go with Judaism. Or, anything besides Sikhi. After all, we have women like this, leading men into battle and clearly astray.

 

[Ishna]

Yes, this is what it is mostly about.

Um, no.

Feminism is a range of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women.[1][2] This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.[3]​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

Sure, feminism has its extremists, just like some religions do . But I wouldn't be where I am today if it weren't for my foremothers.

Perhaps your wife would like to join here and share her own point of view.

Or isn't she allowed on the internet?

 

[Harry Haller]

I follow the Old Testament along with a few other people. We are looking for a refuge from modern culture which we consider to be evil. This is partly for our families. We do not want our children to grow up around evil, and we ourselves would like to associate with moral people. We do not care what other people believe, we only care that they are moral.

what is moral? define it please

 

[fschmidt]

what is moral? define it please

Moral is what is good for your tribe/culture/society in the long run. So being moral is largely about consideration for others in your tribe. Moral behavior can be best described as the exact opposite of the behavior of members of modern culture. Members of modern culture are inconsiderate, liars, hypocrites, disloyal, backstabbers, selfish, lazy, stupid, obnoxious, etc. This is typical of a decaying culture and is described by the prophets of the Old Testament when Israel was in cultural decay.

 

[Ishna]

Is slavery a moral action?

 

[fschmidt]

Is slavery a moral action?

No. But remember that I view morality as tribal which means that morality says nothing about how to treat people outside your tribe. The Old Testament strongly limits slavery among Israelites by requiring that an Israelite "slave" is released after a limited time, meaning that this is more like an indentured servant than a slave. And of course these rules are from long ago and there is no more need for indentured servitude (which evil modern culture still has in America with the H-1B visa).

I know that Sikhism is universalist and effectively treats all of humanity as its tribe. I don't share this view, but I don't condemn this view either. What matters to me is whether Sikhism supports morality and opposes immorality (leftism, feminism, and modern culture generally). If another religion provided refuge for us (Old Testament followers), then we would extend our loyalty to followers of that religion.

 

[Ishna]

The Old Testament allows slavery in a range of circumstances. It also allows you to beat your slave as long as he or she doesn't die within two days.

If a master gives his male slave a wife, and the male slave does his time and becomes a 'free man', he can go free but his wife and any children have to stay with the master. The male slave can then choose to leave his wife and children, or he can remain with the master forever.

Why do you follow a scripture that allows these things when you *know* it is not moral?

 

[Harry Haller]

Moral is what is good for your tribe/culture/society in the long run.

decided by who?

 

[fschmidt]

The Old Testament never endorses slavery, it only regulates what was a universal practice at that time.

I am quite used to these kinds of attacks on the Old Testament. One indication of how great the Old Testament is is that it is the most hated book by members of modern culture.

 

[fschmidt]

decided by who?

Any attribute has to be measured by someone. In my case, I was raised atheist and studied history to discover what kind of behavior correlates to rising cultures and to declining cultures. The Old Testament does an excellent job describing both. The moral principles it advocates are those found in rising cultures, and what the prophets condemn are typical of decaying cultures. In my small Old Testament group, there are some chinese who compare Old Testament principles to chinese history (which I never studied) and again it matches.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Leviticus 19:20-22: "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him."

In lay man's terms:

Sexual Activity with an Engaged Female Slave: A man who rapes or engages in consensual sex with a female slave who is engaged to be married to another man must sacrifice an animal in the temple in order to obtain God's forgiveness. The female slave would be whipped. There is apparently no punishment or ritual animal killing required if the female slave were not engaged; men could rape such slaves with impunity.

Old Testament

It is interesting to notice how you embrace these atrocities in the name of your god and call yourself an atheist. I can discuss the OT with you and show your hypocricy and double standard. Please do not underestimate the knowledge of Sikhs in here about other religions. That would be a self defeating prophecy. OT is as barbaric as many claim Koran to be.

Tejwant Singh